Comics Preview art for ASM #581 and about how Harry came back

[kguillou]

Oooh so Gale introduced the camera tracking device thing?? I was wondering where the hell that came from when it came up during NWTD. I was like "Spidey's never used this before?!?" I haven't read any of Gale's stories so i guess i missed it. lol

 

[Styleshift]

Oooh so Gale introduced the camera tracking device thing?? I was wondering where the hell that came from when it came up during NWTD. I was like "Spidey's never used this before?!?" I haven't read any of Gale's stories so i guess i missed it. lol

and now My point has been furthered.
3x a month of ASM is very much different than 3 different titles each month.

If you don't read 3 books a month than you will miss things like that.

 

[imdaly]

Oooh so Gale introduced the camera tracking device thing?? I was wondering where the hell that came from when it came up during NWTD. I was like "Spidey's never used this before?!?" I haven't read any of Gale's stories so i guess i missed it. lol

and now My point has been furthered.
3x a month of ASM is very much different than 3 different titles each month.

If you don't read 3 books a month than you will miss things like that.

So if Gale wrote his story that introduced the Spidey-camera-tracking-device-thingy in an issue of Sensational Spider-Man while Slott then used that device the next month in his Amazing Spider-Man story how would that have been any better? Those people who still avoid Gale's stories would STILL have missed that plot point and would've been just as confused about it. It would've made absolutely no difference.

There's no comparison here. What-so-ever.
ASM 3X a month is the same book.

That's 2.99 plus Tax three times per month just to keep up with one title.

I really don't want to pay that much money to follow a book thats been barely moving.....

So which is it? Do the story-arcs feel so disjoined that they feel like separate titles, or do they have so much to do with each other that it would kill you to skip an arc here or there? If you don't want to pay that much money on a book...don't.

I still don't understand how you are comparing three different choices to one.
If you refuse to buy Bob Gale's books because they suck than it hurts your run and you will be confused in the long run.

If you're worried about not having a complete run of a Spidey book, I'm willing to bet you'd be collecting all the core Spidey titles anyway.

The 3 monthly titles never dipped into each other like that. Never. Why? because this is one title. Not 3.

Are you kidding me?? I seem to remember NUMEROUS storylines that ran into each other like that! Has everyone forgotten the "crossover" stories?? Particularly allllll throughout the 90's, it seemed. 4-parter after 4-parter with Part 1 being "Web of", Part 2 being "Amazing", Part 3 being "Spider-Man", and Part 4 being "Spectacular" or something like that?

"Maximum Carnage", "Pursuit", the entire Clone Saga, "Spider-Hunt", "Identity Crisis", "The Gathering of Five", "The Final Chapter", the Mattie Franklin Spider-Woman story, "Another Return of the Sinister Six", the Doombot story, the Goblin clone story, "Revenge of the Green Goblin", the return of MJ, "The Other", etc...

Nah, the titles never dipped into each other like that. Well...until 1993 and on. And let's not even get into those storylines that had the first or last parts happen in a one-shot comic (Like Maximum Clonage Alpha and Omega) or when a very important event happened in another title (Spidey gets the black suit in "Secret Wars", Ned Leeds is killed in "Wolverine vs. Spider-Man", Doc Ock's funeral is in "Funeral For an Octopus", Roderick Kingsley is revealed to be the original Hobgoblin in "Hobgoblin Lives", Norman Osborn is outed and arrested in "The Pulse", Peter loses his powers in "The Final Adventure", Spidey joins the Avengers in "New Avengers", etc etc)

Having to read other titles in order to keep up with what's going on in Spidey's world is ANYTHING but new to us.

Not everybody bought all 3 titles believe it or not.
I always stuck with whoever I felt was writing better at the time. The 3 titles barely ever referenced each other so it made it easy to alternate.
Now if I were reading ASM. I have to quit with no alternative to look forward to. That's a month worth of Spidey comics I had to miss out on just because Gale sucks so bad.

(Keep in mind that I'm not a fan of how continuity was often bended by the extra titles. But I did love the option when I had it. )

So again, you had no problem "hurting your run" before when ever you'd bounce around and stick with whatever title had the better writing at the time, yet now you're either all in or all out? I'm sorry, but I really don't see the difference.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

I understand your point, but to counter that wait, once you get to that month, you get 3 issues all at once.

Did you like getting 1 issue a month 3 months, or did you like getting 3 issues in Month 1 and then have and empty Month 2 and Month 3? In the end you still get 3 issues every 3 months. It's all a personal opinion which way works better, and no way is really better than the other.

Luckily for people like me, I'm loving the whole Brain Trust right now so I don't have much of a wait at all!

Getting all three issues from my fave team in one month is great and all But then I've got two months with nothing on my hands... It's like Getting X-mas presents on December 3 instead of the 25th... I'd rather have the three month story cuase that way I can read all year long instead of gettign a quick rush one moth and then waiting two more moths for the next rush...

Does that include Gale? the liking the whole braintrust thing...

 

[imdaly]

Does that include Gale? the liking the whole braintrust thing...

Well first of all I want to point out that I just had to go back and look to see which issues were the ones written by him because I really don't pay much attention to who's writing the book each month. They all seem to be "speaking the same language", so to speak, IMO.

And to answer your question now that I've seen which one's he's written, yes, this definitely includes Gale. While I didn't care too much for the Bookie story, it was just because the story didn't really interest me and not because of how it was written. But Gale also wrote the Freak issues which I very much enjoyed. So yes, Gale is definitely included when I say I'm loving the whole braintrust right now.

 

[kguillou]

I'm not too sure about the whole "speaking the same language" thing. I find that each writer gives Peter Parker/ Spiderman a different voice. Guggenheim is different from Gale who's very different from Slott and so on. Slott's version seems to be closely akin to how spidey was portrayed in the 90's spiderman cartoon which is a very good thing btw. Guggenheim seems to be more akin to Bendis' wacky, goofy, happy go lucky spiderman, not my taste personally but whatever. Gale's seems to be closer to Guggenheim's version, Zeb Well's seems closer to Slott's but still quite different. It feels like every month we get a different rendition of spider-man instead of a consistent portrayal, i'm not really a big fan of that.

 

[moraldeficiency]

To say that the 3x a month ASM is the same as three different titles is completely disengenious. Why? Glad you asked. All major changes, explanations and plots always come out of Amazing. It's always been that way. Friendly and Spectacular never had the ability to do what amazing does as far as character development. That's common knowledge. So it has basically been three years worth of stories sans explainations or sense, with cool retro stories, still waiting for that new part of Brand New Day.

 

[Styleshift]

So if Gale wrote his story that introduced the Spidey-camera-tracking-device-thingy in an issue of Sensational Spider-Man while Slott then used that device the next month in his Amazing Spider-Man story how would that have been any better? Those people who still avoid Gale's stories would STILL have missed that plot point and would've been just as confused about it. It would've made absolutely no difference.

Trust me friend It makes ALOT of difference.

Tell me when you have seen something like that happen before?
That a normal story element was used in another title that had a crap story.

We're not talking about disassembled. We're not talking about Sins past. We're not talking about the other.

Why?
because those are events. those stories are easy to track down,easy to hear word of mouth about.

Those elements introduced were the focus of the those specific arcs. Where as the Camera tracking device thing (they really need to give it a proper name.) Was introduced as a minor and quick Story element. It aided him yes and was a pretty cool idea, but it didn' t add to the story where it was introduced.

So which is it? Do the story-arcs feel so disjoined that they feel like separate titles, or do they have so much to do with each other that it would kill you to skip an arc here or there? If you don't want to pay that much money on a book...don't.

Your not looking at the whole picture here because you have been paying for all the books thus far and you claimed that you bought the 3 titles anyways. I didn't. I picked whatever I liked and stuck with it. It didn't hurt my runs and I knew what was going on in whatever book I had.

I know my opinion on the books inconsistency is confusing. The story arcs feel a bit tighter (more so than the 3 titles.) but what I'm trying to get at is the writing isn't always up to par. I don't want to have to skip Gale...If I'm paying 3 times a month I want a good story 3 times a month. That's why I wasn't buying all 3 titles a month.

but I don't buy ASM anyways....I'm just a sucker for a good debate.

If you're worried about not having a complete run of a Spidey book, I'm willing to bet you'd be collecting all the core Spidey titles anyway.

Naw. as I said I never collected all 3 titles at once. Continuity was hard to put together, (typically with what happened when) but it had it's benefits. Did it hurt your run in ASM because you don't know who El Muerto was? No....because the stories were self contained. I didn't need to know who Morlun was while I was reading Peter Parker.

It's possible to skip those titles without hurting your run on whatever book you chose. Where as skipping Gale's arcs could screw you in the long run. (Who the heck is freak? who is the bookie?)

I know as much, if not more about those titles than you and I didn't buy all of them.

EDIT: I would reply to your comparison of the 90s titles. But at no point did I reference them. They have been long gone. There is no reason to even reference them now. We're talking about the pre-omd titles. I thought that was clear but maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying when I said never.

Friendly Neighborhood and (Marvel Knights)Sensational were brand new titles and were in no way tied to the 90s crossovers you mentioned.

 

[imdaly]

To say that the 3x a month ASM is the same as three different titles is completely disengenious. Why? Glad you asked. All major changes, explanations and plots always come out of Amazing. It's always been that way. Friendly and Spectacular never had the ability to do what amazing does as far as character development. That's common knowledge. So it has basically been three years worth of stories sans explainations or sense, with cool retro stories, still waiting for that new part of Brand New Day.

If you were to only read "Amazing Spider-Man", you would miss out on the following major changes/explanations/plots:

Spidey got his organic webbing in "Spectacular".
Harry Osborn died in "Spectacular".
Doctor Octopus died in "Spectacular".
Peter handed the webs over to Ben in "Spectacular".
Ben Reilly appeared and kickstarted the Clone Saga in "Spectacular".
Ben was "revealed" as the real Peter in "Spectacular".
Kaine "died" in "Spectacular".
Ben Reilly's Spider-Man costume and blonde look premiered in "Sensational".
Peter's powers return in "Spectacular".
Norman Osborn returned, Ben Reilly died, Peter was "proved" to be the real deal, and the Clone Saga ended in "Spider-Man".
Hobgoblin retired in "Spectacular".
Aunt May was revealed to be alive in "Spider-Man".
Flash Thompson was paralyzed in "Spider-Man".
Eddie Brock sold the Venom suit to Mac Gargan in "MK: Spider-Man".
The Sin Eater Saga, which had Daredevil finding out who Spidey is and acted as a very important stepping stone to creating Venom, happened in "Spectacular".
Eddie Brock was revealed to have cancer in "Spectacular".
Spidey gets the black suit in "Secret Wars"
Ned Leeds is killed in "Wolverine vs. Spider-Man"
Doc Ock's funeral is in "Funeral For an Octopus"
Roderick Kingsley is revealed to be the original Hobgoblin in "Hobgoblin Lives"
Norman Osborn is outed and arrested in "The Pulse"
Peter loses his powers in "The Final Adventure"
Spidey joins the Avengers in "New Avengers".




...Just to name a few.

 

[imdaly]

Naw. as I said I never collected all 3 titles at once. Continuity was hard to put together, (typically with what happened when) but it had it's benefits. Did it hurt your run in ASM because you don't know who El Muerto was? No....because the stories were self contained. I didn't need to know who Morlun was while I was reading Peter Parker.

Did it hurt your run in ASM because you're reading a story where Eddie Brock is somehow cured of a cancer you didn't know he had, and that The Scorpion was somehow running around as Venom now?

It's possible to skip those titles without hurting your run on whatever book you chose. Where as skipping Gale's arcs could screw you in the long run. (Who the heck is freak? who is the bookie?)

You're not seriously trying to act like new villains and characters appeared in "Amazing Spider-Man" at one point didn't first show up in other titles first, are you?

Well then...who the heck is Tombstone? Carrion? Demogoblin? Doppleganger? Grim Hunter? Kaine?

EDIT: I would reply to your comparison of the 90s titles. But at no point did I reference them. They have been long gone. There is no reason to even reference them now. We're talking about the pre-omd titles. I thought that was clear but maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying when I said never.

Friendly Neighborhood and (Marvel Knights)Sensational were brand new titles and were in no way tied to the 90s crossovers you mentioned.

I apologize then. I guess when you said...

The 3 monthly titles never dipped into each other like that. Never. Why? because this is one title. Not 3.

...by "never" you meant "not in the last couple years"?

 

[farmernudie]

I think his point was that the stories were more self contained and like Charlie Brown (the way joe wants them) BEFORE OMD/BND in that over in FNSM he may be battling Sandman for the next couple issues, and in the other, dealing with an Uncle Ben from another time continuim and in AMazing he could be doing whatever too.

They don't nescessarily tie into each other, and you could choose who you wanted to read. The storylines were all in "spidey's world" at some point.

Sure there were crossovers too. But you didn't have to read time traveling Ben storys to understand whatever whoever was writing in Amazing.

 

[imdaly]

I think his point was that the stories were more self contained and like Charlie Brown (the way joe wants them) BEFORE OMD/BND in that over in FNSM he may be battling Sandman for the next couple issues, and in the other, dealing with an Uncle Ben from another time continuim and in AMazing he could be doing whatever too.

They don't nescessarily tie into each other, and you could choose who you wanted to read. The storylines were all in "spidey's world" at some point.

Sure there were crossovers too. But you didn't have to read time traveling Ben storys to understand whatever whoever was writing in Amazing.

And I definitely see the point there, but I have to say that always bugged me. I mean, in FNSM we'd have Peter dealing with his Uncle Ben "returning" from an alternate universe, which is something I'd think would be a big event in his life...yet he never as much as references this in the other titles.

In the same month, we'd have Peter off in 3 different places fighting 3 different battles, and we'd never know how these events all tie together into Spidey's single stream of continuity. Did the fight with Sandman happen before or after the Uncle Ben story? And why did Peter never reference it again? For those people who are so torn up about continuity now Post-BND, they sure didn't seem to mind that there was virtually somewhere between 2-4 seemingly separate timelines happening with Spider-man each month Pre-BND.

 

[moraldeficiency]

If you were to only read "Amazing Spider-Man", you would miss out on the following major changes/explanations/plots:

Spidey got his organic webbing in "Spectacular".
Harry Osborn died in "Spectacular".
Doctor Octopus died in "Spectacular".
Peter handed the webs over to Ben in "Spectacular".
Ben Reilly appeared and kickstarted the Clone Saga in "Spectacular".
Ben was "revealed" as the real Peter in "Spectacular".
Kaine "died" in "Spectacular".
Ben Reilly's Spider-Man costume and blonde look premiered in "Sensational".
Peter's powers return in "Spectacular".
Norman Osborn returned, Ben Reilly died, Peter was "proved" to be the real deal, and the Clone Saga ended in "Spider-Man".
Hobgoblin retired in "Spectacular".
Aunt May was revealed to be alive in "Spider-Man".
Flash Thompson was paralyzed in "Spider-Man".
Eddie Brock sold the Venom suit to Mac Gargan in "MK: Spider-Man".
The Sin Eater Saga, which had Daredevil finding out who Spidey is and acted as a very important stepping stone to creating Venom, happened in "Spectacular".
Eddie Brock was revealed to have cancer in "Spectacular".
Spidey gets the black suit in "Secret Wars"
Ned Leeds is killed in "Wolverine vs. Spider-Man"
Doc Ock's funeral is in "Funeral For an Octopus"
Roderick Kingsley is revealed to be the original Hobgoblin in "Hobgoblin Lives"
Norman Osborn is outed and arrested in "The Pulse"
Peter loses his powers in "The Final Adventure"
Spidey joins the Avengers in "New Avengers".




...Just to name a few.

Hmmm, you just listed a whole bunch of temporary things, most of which have been reversed haven't they? For the others, Kingsley would be outed in Stern's story since he created him but that's a villain topic not a spider-man one, Osborn has covered his trail (also bendis does not count for anything), NA doesn't ever effect Spider-Man in anyway and he's generally forgotten except to annoy luke cage and get schooled by ninjas, the Leeds thing was intended to give Wolverine vs. Spider-Man importance (but I'll conceded that one instance though it's fairly minor), Night of the Goblins was a crossover event and those are the only instances when the minor titles had any effect though generally the ASM writer gets to map out the story. Nice list though, but everyone knows ASM is the book where events and changes to Peter Parker happen.

 

[carnageehw]

Three Amazings a month is completly different than three different books, and the reason has little to do with important events or anything of the such.

Each title gave you a different creative team, and a different feel for Spidey. You could constantly read which ever title you liked the best, and pick up on an important issue in another title if you felt like it.

Amazing three times a month is one constant story.

You can't pick to read Slotts arc monthly. It's either Slotts turn or it's not. It's weird.

 

[Themanofbat]

Nice list though, but everyone knows ASM is the book where events and changes to Peter Parker happen.

So what was the point of ever reading Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Sensational Spider-Man, etc...

If "nothing" ever happened to Peter Parker in those books, are these comics then relegated to the "Charlie Brown" status that everybody likes to use now? They served NO POINT as far as development goes... they just told "good ol' Spidey stories"...

Are you telling me that Peter getting organic webbing in Spectacular Spider-Man is neither an event nor a major change to Peter Parker?

 

[Themanofbat]

Each title gave you a different creative team, and a different feel for Spidey. You could constantly read which ever title you liked the best, and pick up on an important issue in another title if you felt like it.

And three seperate storylines per month meant headaches to us poor continuity guys that tried to reference things altogether... and it was weird when things happened in one title, but never mentioned in the others... that's not the foundation for the House of Ideas...

I remember an issue of Spider-Man in the late 80's (when he has his Black Costume), and he thought something was to big for him to fight, so he went to the Baxter Building to get the FF's help... only to make the turn and see that's been ripped from it's foundation... because in the FF book, Doom had used some tractor beam and brought the Baxter Building into space...

There's nothing wrong with wanting to see THAT in 3 Spidey books, be it all the same title, or three seperate titles... they should always refer to one another.

 

[moraldeficiency]

So what was the point of ever reading Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, Sensational Spider-Man, etc...

If "nothing" ever happened to Peter Parker in those books, are these comics then relegated to the "Charlie Brown" status that everybody likes to use now? They served NO POINT as far as development goes... they just told "good ol' Spidey stories"...

Are you telling me that Peter getting organic webbing in Spectacular Spider-Man is neither an event nor a major change to Peter Parker?

Just to read a Peter Parker story, no reason otherwise really. But good stories are what most of us read comics for. I'm just saying no major Peter Parker changes happened except in ASM.

Some of these issues I'm sure are now retconned out of existence, so we'll just see how much. But no, it's not charlie brown esque, there were lots of changes in the issues, they just all originated in ASM. How is this even a debate, everyone at marvel says the same thing, it's one of the reasons for the new ASM 3x a month, so the major events aren't just in one book. There's a ton of interviews spotlighting this from Quesada down to Slott.

Again, we're talking temporary vs. permenant. Spider-Man could go through any change possible in Spectacular or Friendly as long as it was undone and back to the ASM status quo at the end of the day. Also that happened in a crossover event, which as mentioned is the one exception to the "big events and changes only happen in ASM rule".

 

[Themanofbat]

Just to read a Peter Parker story, no reason otherwise really. But good stories are what most of us read comics for. I'm just saying no major Peter Parker changes happened except in ASM.

So if you read Spider-Man comics just to read a Peter Parker story... or a good Spider-Man story, why all the fuss about not reading ASM now? The stories are just as good (or bad) as any of those titles were in their primes (they are better in my opinion, but you knew that )

I don't want to start any fights, but your comments astound me...

 

[moraldeficiency]

So if you read Spider-Man comics just to read a Peter Parker story... or a good Spider-Man story, why all the fuss about not reading ASM now? The stories are just as good (or bad) as any of those titles were in their primes (they are better in my opinion, but you knew that )

I don't want to start any fights, but your comments astound me...

I like stories featuring heroes, not guys that cheat their way through life. Plus other than the flash story I can read back issues with these exact same stories only with original characters and no awkard moments where the reader is taken out of the story. It's cool there are a lot of other actual heroic books out there and some with better comedy than ASM to boot. I save at least 9 bucks a month that generally go to independent stuff that's original and worlds better featuring characters that sacrifice and care about power and responsibility. Though to be honest I mainly did read ASM with only touching the other titles if there was a paticularly cool concept, character or idea going on in them. I also get the idea that considering how this all transpired I'd feel like a sucker playing three card monte buying any ASM. I mean they purposefully did some awful **** to Peter Parker just to make this retcon not as hard to swallow. **** me over for three years just to sucker me into buying a change which has always lead to the worst moments and stories in the history of spider-man? Nah, at getting kicked in the balls that much, I think I'll start wearing a cup.

And you're starting no fights, that was a pretty good and new argument you tried on me there.

 

[imdaly]

Hmmm, you just listed a whole bunch of temporary things, most of which have been reversed haven't they?

Dude. Since when are comics anything BUT temporary??

For the others, Kingsley would be outed in Stern's story since he created him but that's a villain topic not a spider-man one, Osborn has covered his trail (also bendis does not count for anything)

I'm gonna have to say that identities of two of Spidey's biggest villains being revealed to readers and identities revealed to Marvel Universe Public are pretty important to Spider-Man.

NA doesn't ever effect Spider-Man in anyway and he's generally forgotten except to annoy luke cage and get schooled by ninjas

NA had Spidey joining the Avengers. Then we got an Avengers story in ASM a little later...how does that not effect Spider-Man??

 

[shinlyle]

NA had Spidey joining the Avengers. Then we got an Avengers story in ASM a little later...how does that not effect Spider-Man??

Probably because only the ASM story had Peter actually doing anything. In 40 issues of New Avengers, he has yet to really do anything but get his ass whooped and get unmasked every other issue. Seriously, when he unmasked in Civil War, they should have showed everyone who has seen him unmasked in New Avengers huddled around their televisions saying, "Yeah, saw this a month ago....big whoop".

 

[moraldeficiency]

Dude. Since when are comics anything BUT temporary??


I'm gonna have to say that identities of two of Spidey's biggest villains being revealed to readers and identities revealed to Marvel Universe Public are pretty important to Spider-Man.


NA had Spidey joining the Avengers. Then we got an Avengers story in ASM a little later...how does that not effect Spider-Man??

Gwen's still dead. So is uncle ben. Likewise with kraven. Peter Parker is still about the same core values and beliefs. His work has changed but always in the pages of amazing. I guess you could argue any change is temporary in some form but all the majors are in ASM. Sweet Jesus on a stick, every writer of the braintrust and Joe along with Delfaco have said as much in endorsing the new ASM 3x a month format. Now maybe you don't agree with them and that's cool, but it's pretty common knowledge ASM has always been the "money" book for spider-man.

Again, Stern made the HG so any major stuff happening with him are going to be in a stern story unless there's a falling out. The GG isn't really considered norman anymore by most people. And again, it was a bendis story, this is a guy that says some ninjas would easily overwhelm Pete, he really shouldn't count outside of the ultimate universe. Look how crappy SI 8 turned out (I was dead on with that ending too).

Yeah that NA issue of ASM was great. Wonder if it's been retconned (probably)? Random homeless people appear and are used more in ASM then the NA, bendis wanted the cool kids on the team (even though his 616 pete is weaker, stupider and more childish than the ultimate version) but ASM doesn't really use them or Pete would have called them in to deal with the funrunners currently handing him his ass.

 

[Styleshift]

Did it hurt your run in ASM because you're reading a story where Eddie Brock is somehow cured of a cancer you didn't know he had, and that The Scorpion was somehow running around as Venom now?

I actually picked up that arc.
But seeing as it was THE FIRST ISSUE of Spectacular and was advertised heavily within other books....it was kind of hard to miss dontcha think?

Plus it had Venom on the cover!

You're not seriously trying to act like new villains and characters appeared in "Amazing Spider-Man" at one point didn't first show up in other titles first, are you?

Well then...who the heck is Tombstone? Carrion? Demogoblin? Doppleganger? Grim Hunter? Kaine?

Tell me...did any of those characters appear in Marvel Knights, Spectacular Spider-man vol. 2., Peter Parker Vol. 2, and Friendly Neighborhood? Think about the era we're discussing...and try again.

I apologize then. I guess when you said...

...by "never" you meant "not in the last couple years"?

Yessir. I only meant the recent titles. Not the past ones.
I think we all can agree that the titles of the 90s were ridiculously hard to follow. Trying to defend that would be suicide....

 

[bryanss3]

comics in the 90's hard to follow.. ha

 

[Styleshift]

comics in the 90's hard to follow.. ha

Looks like Imdaly and I are about to team up....t: