Comics Preview art for ASM #581 and about how Harry came back

[spiderfan970]

Man, I don't even care about this really...I think because I know that they probably didn't even have a plan. It's like Lost when everyone realized that they didn't know where it was going, they lost interest.

I'll just do with this what I do with every issue of Spider-Man now, wait for the ones that get good reviews or the ones featuring Marcos Martin or John Romita Jr.

 

[imdaly]

Man, I don't even care about this really...I think because I know that they probably didn't even have a plan. It's like Lost when everyone realized that they didn't know where it was going, they lost interest.

I'll just do with this what I do with every issue of Spider-Man now, wait for the ones that get good reviews or the ones featuring Marcos Martin or John Romita Jr.

Exactly. It's like with LOST, where the writers of the show knew where they were going and had a plan, but the viewers got frustrated because they wanted answers now and not later. They didn't enjoy watching the myseries unravel in a more creative and rewarding manner. People (like me) who have stuck with the show the whole time are being redeemed now by seeing that, yes, there WAS a plan, and the route and order they went by revealing the myseries of the present, future, and past was done deliberately.

Yes. Just like LOST.

 

[spiderfan970]

Yeah, good thing nobody here likes it, or I'd feel like a real ass.

 

[Styleshift]

Yeah, good thing nobody here likes it, or I'd feel like a real ass.

You can only dangle a predictable main plot of a series for so long before it becomes uninteresting.

It gets a little tedious when every attempt for them to escape the island becomes predictable.

It's like dangling a pacifier in front of a baby.

I think Lost would work better as a movie instead of a T.V. series.
(most appropriately a miniseries.)

It's like Smallville and all the Superman references they make yet he will never become Superman during the series.

Doesn't mean that these characters won't get home...but I assume that would be the end of the series.

I think its a good show regardless. I just don't dig that format for any type of series. I like (books and television) to be unpredictable. The ending shouldn't be clear.

 

[Miken Ayers]

You can only dangle a predictable main plot of a series for so long before it becomes uninteresting.

It gets a little tedious when every attempt for them to escape the island becomes predictable.

It's like dangling a pacifier in front of a baby.

I think Lost would work better as a movie instead of a T.V. series.
(most appropriately a miniseries.)

It's like Smallville and all the Superman references they make yet he will never become Superman during the series.

Doesn't mean that these characters won't get home...but I assume that would be the end of the series.

I think its a good show regardless. I just don't dig that format for any type of series. I like (books and television) to be unpredictable. The ending shouldn't be clear.

Mary Jane is Menace.

 

[farmernudie]

My wife and I love Lost, actually.

But anyway...

I don't see comparing Spider-Man now to Lost at all...to be fair...it is comparing apples to oranges in a very major way.

Lost was designed as a show to give away bits of information slowly. It was designed to give flashbacks on a weekly basis, tying a complex story meant to be that way together.

Amazing spidey was a reboot where it was not meant to be a new ongoing story giving flashback and tie things together. It was to bne a quick way to achieve a new status quo. PERIOD.

They even oringally stated (thru interviews) they had no intentions of explaining things...it was MAGIC.

Slowly now....ONLY DUE TO FAN BACKLASH...they are starting to say...WAIT AND WE WILL TELL YOU A FEW THINGS. Who knows if they will. Many things, they say they don't have to explain, they say it ALL HAPPENED THE SAME.

So, i am tired of comparisons here and there, that pop up often, comparing it to Lost as justification. When this is NOTHING like Lost.

It has NO INTENT to be s astory that is continually giving more clues about the past. Joe said he didn't WANT to do that.

The intent was to move forward and have a "brand new day" where he could tell stories he never could never tell before (haha) with a married spider-man.

Instead we just happen to be stuck with a story that makes no sense within years of comics (episodes) already out. They say it is all the same. BUt i am not gonna repost all teh threads with points that no longer fit within the show/comic. So, they say it all happened, even tho they also say it never happened. And they may explain a few things to try and smooth over angry continuity readers. Period.

So anyway, frankly, i see NO comparison AT ALL to Lost. Except that you have to "wait"...???

But then..you can compare Spider-man comics to EVERYTHING in LIFE...because you have to wait for EVERYTHING. Microwaving, shopping lines, death, your birthday, Christmas, work to be over....

 

[Eternalzero]

Mary Jane is Menace.

OMG,

Mary Jane is harry osborne in disguise, no wonder that foo came back to life!!???

 

[shinlyle]

Exactly. It's like with LOST, where the writers of the show knew where they were going and had a plan, but the viewers got frustrated because they wanted answers now and not later. They didn't enjoy watching the myseries unravel in a more creative and rewarding manner. People (like me) who have stuck with the show the whole time are being redeemed now by seeing that, yes, there WAS a plan, and the route and order they went by revealing the myseries of the present, future, and past was done deliberately.

Yes. Just like LOST.

I've yet to see an episode of Lost. All I'll say is that it is no better than any other "desert island" show or movie. You know why? Simple: While on the island, all the men's facial hair only grows out enough to be rugged and cool-looking, despite there are no razors. Also, all of the women apprently had laser hair-removal on their legs, as they don't need to shave....ever.

So, no razors, and yet all of the women still look hot and shaven, while the men can only grow rugged stubble and goatees? BS!

As you can tell, I am totally kidding, I just have no interest to get into yet ANOTHER television show, at this point.


As for the Spidey books, I have no problem with the "wait and see" thing, if it wasn't for them going back to reveal what happened in a past we all knew about a year ago....and all while saying that nothing has changed. Come on!

 

[Galactus]

I've yet to see an episode of Lost. All I'll say is that it is no better than any other "desert island" show or movie. You know why? Simple: While on the island, all the men's facial hair only grows out enough to be rugged and cool-looking, despite there are no razors. Also, all of the women apprently had laser hair-removal on their legs, as they don't need to shave....ever.

Well, the island did turn out to be not so deserted. So they have been capable of shaving, taking a shower and stuff like that

 

[Themanofbat]

My wife and I love Lost, actually.

But anyway...

I don't see comparing Spider-Man now to Lost at all...to be fair...it is comparing apples to oranges in a very major way.

Lost was designed as a show to give away bits of information slowly. It was designed to give flashbacks on a weekly basis, tying a complex story meant to be that way together.

Amazing spidey was a reboot where it was not meant to be a new ongoing story giving flashback and tie things together. It was to bne a quick way to achieve a new status quo. PERIOD.

They even oringally stated (thru interviews) they had no intentions of explaining things...it was MAGIC.

Slowly now....ONLY DUE TO FAN BACKLASH...they are starting to say...WAIT AND WE WILL TELL YOU A FEW THINGS. Who knows if they will. Many things, they say they don't have to explain, they say it ALL HAPPENED THE SAME.

So, i am tired of comparisons here and there, that pop up often, comparing it to Lost as justification. When this is NOTHING like Lost.

It has NO INTENT to be s astory that is continually giving more clues about the past. Joe said he didn't WANT to do that.

The intent was to move forward and have a "brand new day" where he could tell stories he never could never tell before (haha) with a married spider-man.

Instead we just happen to be stuck with a story that makes no sense within years of comics (episodes) already out. They say it is all the same. BUt i am not gonna repost all teh threads with points that no longer fit within the show/comic. So, they say it all happened, even tho they also say it never happened. And they may explain a few things to try and smooth over angry continuity readers. Period.

So anyway, frankly, i see NO comparison AT ALL to Lost. Except that you have to "wait"...???

But then..you can compare Spider-man comics to EVERYTHING in LIFE...because you have to wait for EVERYTHING. Microwaving, shopping lines, death, your birthday, Christmas, work to be over....

I've bolded the part of your post that I would like to address...

You have no proof that they never had intent on tieing in the past with the current direction, in fact, there is proof otherwise. And that is the fact that Dan Slott (who still insists it's relevant) used what he knew with BND at the time and wrote Avengers: The Initiative #7... that, to me, indicates that he intends/intended to use the past as part of the new BND future/direction.... if A:TI #7 doesn't pan out, then I'll believe you.

And the ONLY time anyone ever said "We don't have to explain it... it's magick" was a disgruntled JMS (who was pissed off that he couldn't retcon the Goblin Twins) having a go at it with Quesada. So the words of a guy who's mad is to be taken as "literal truth"? I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you're interested...

 

[shinlyle]

Well, the island did turn out to be not so deserted. So they have been capable of shaving, taking a shower and stuff like that

Isn't that convenient!t:

 

[Styleshift]

My wife and I love Lost, actually.

But anyway...

I don't see comparing Spider-Man now to Lost at all...to be fair...it is comparing apples to oranges in a very major way.

Lost was designed as a show to give away bits of information slowly. It was designed to give flashbacks on a weekly basis, tying a complex story meant to be that way together.

Amazing spidey was a reboot where it was not meant to be a new ongoing story giving flashback and tie things together. It was to bne a quick way to achieve a new status quo. PERIOD.

They even oringally stated (thru interviews) they had no intentions of explaining things...it was MAGIC.

Slowly now....ONLY DUE TO FAN BACKLASH...they are starting to say...WAIT AND WE WILL TELL YOU A FEW THINGS. Who knows if they will. Many things, they say they don't have to explain, they say it ALL HAPPENED THE SAME.

So, i am tired of comparisons here and there, that pop up often, comparing it to Lost as justification. When this is NOTHING like Lost.

It has NO INTENT to be s astory that is continually giving more clues about the past. Joe said he didn't WANT to do that.

The intent was to move forward and have a "brand new day" where he could tell stories he never could never tell before (haha) with a married spider-man.

Instead we just happen to be stuck with a story that makes no sense within years of comics (episodes) already out. They say it is all the same. BUt i am not gonna repost all teh threads with points that no longer fit within the show/comic. So, they say it all happened, even tho they also say it never happened. And they may explain a few things to try and smooth over angry continuity readers. Period.

So anyway, frankly, i see NO comparison AT ALL to Lost. Except that you have to "wait"...???

But then..you can compare Spider-man comics to EVERYTHING in LIFE...because you have to wait for EVERYTHING. Microwaving, shopping lines, death, your birthday, Christmas, work to be over....

Don't get me wrong. I think its a pretty good show (from what I have seen.)
It's just that stories in that format just aren't my cup of tea. Nothing beats Gilligan's island....NOTHING! lol....

But to get back on topic, I think they did have a plan....
However at this point it's become really apparent that they didn't have these stories totally plotted out.

for the most part you are right though. Joe Q. started out defending One More day saying stuff like "If it was a story where Peter let the burglar go, and he killed his uncle than people would say he was acting out of character."

than he goes back and says things like "it's magic....we don't have to explain it."

After that he actually started owning up that it wasn't such a bright idea. He basically stated it just got them where they wanted to be.

I think the character of Jackpot says everything about Brand New Day. She even preceeded Brand New Day. Look how much

 

[Styleshift]

I've bolded the part of your post that I would like to address...

You have no proof that they never had intent on tieing in the past with the current direction, in fact, there is proof otherwise. And that is the fact that Dan Slott (who still insists it's relevant) used what he knew with BND at the time and wrote Avengers: The Initiative #7... that, to me, indicates that he intends/intended to use the past as part of the new BND future/direction.... if A:TI #7 doesn't pan out, then I'll believe you.

And the ONLY time anyone ever said "We don't have to explain it... it's magick" was a disgruntled JMS (who was pissed off that he couldn't retcon the Goblin Twins) having a go at it with Quesada. So the words of a guy who's mad is to be taken as "literal truth"? I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you're interested...

Joe Quesada is the one that said it.
It was during a JMS interview where that got mentioned...but it was only in reference to a previous interview he did.


http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=12395

Sean Hafferty, Audity Boy and Justice Gray asked essentially the same question. "How can you have so little respect for your audience to use the argument: 'It's magic, we don't need to explain it.' Audiences need to have something to cling to; we can have a suspension of belief that a character can swing from webs, but we need to have some explanation of the way the world works. Marvel has a very established Magical base, so it seems lazy to not come up with some explanation for your readers."















Hey, Sean, I didn't say those words. But, here's the thing, from what you're saying here, it's seems to me you're splitting hairs. You can suspend belief for some things, but not others? I would completely agree with you if the Marvel U didn't have magical based characters. I mean the Scarlet Witch said "no more mutants," and magically millions of mutants lost their powers because of "it." "It" being "Chaos Magic." While there is no explanation for Mephsito's magic, is it any different than Doctor Strange's or Wanda's? Whenever they've done things, it seems that "it's magic" is all the explanation fans have ever needed. So, not to be nit picky, but I don't se the difference?

could not find the actual interview (too lazy) but I did find this question from some fans that address his comment. I actually agree about us suspending are belief for some things and not for others...

But than he used the scarlett witch as a defense....about how she said no more mutants and millions of them lost there powers.
Funny thing is...Scarlett witch is a mutant. Yes her powers were redefined. But shes a mutant. She belongs in that story.

Mephisto doesn't belong in a Spidey story (unless its a team up.) My defense for that claim? Well thats why we didn't see Mephisto as the master of the clone saga. They trashed the idea and said "Spider-man doesn't fight mephisto".

Wasn't the spider totem thing bashed for the same reasons? the inclusion of magic to the spidey mythos?

 

[Miken Ayers]

Joe Quesada is the one that said it.
It was during a JMS interview where that got mentioned...but it was only in reference to a previous interview he did.


http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=12395




















could not find the actual interview (too lazy) but I did find this question from some fans that address his comment. I actually agree about us suspending are belief for some things and not for others...

But than he used the scarlett witch as a defense....about how she said no more mutants and millions of them lost there powers.
Funny thing is...Scarlett witch is a mutant. Yes her powers were redefined. But shes a mutant. She belongs in that story.

Mephisto doesn't belong in a Spidey story (unless its a team up.) My defense for that claim? Well thats why we didn't see Mephisto as the master of the clone saga. They trashed the idea and said "Spider-man doesn't fight mephisto".

Wasn't the spider totem thing bashed for the same reasons? the inclusion of magic to the spidey mythos?

It's not so much about suspending beliefs as people pointing out Joe Quesada's misinterpretation of how magic works in the Marvel Universe. Shortly before OMD on his very own message board he was talking about doing away with magic in the Marvel Universe altogether, and either rebooting Strange and the others in a seperate universe of finding some way to power it down.

People then said that magic's never worked that way in the MU, was always with consequence and didn't mean you could do whatever you wanted just by knowing it. Even in House of M Scarlet Witch didn't so much recreate reality as cast a massive illusion that several people throughout the story found holes in. And with "No more mutants" she only wiped a gene off the planet and didn't recreate reality as we knew.

So what's he do when he says he doesn't know how to get rid of Spider-Man's marriage? Magic, but not just magic his misinterpretation of magic saying, "I can do whatever the F I want since it's magic and the fans will accept it. Also along with the marriage I'll reset everything else, because this is what I wanna see and I know what's best for the fans."

And now upon realizing it doesn't work that way he's gotta derail his "bold new direction" every so often with flashback arcs to explain what didn't need explaining. So there you have it Joe Quesada's now downgraded his status to backpeddling hack.

 

[shinlyle]

Joe Quesada is the one that said it.
It was during a JMS interview where that got mentioned...but it was only in reference to a previous interview he did.


http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=12395




















could not find the actual interview (too lazy) but I did find this question from some fans that address his comment. I actually agree about us suspending are belief for some things and not for others...

But than he used the scarlett witch as a defense....about how she said no more mutants and millions of them lost there powers.
Funny thing is...Scarlett witch is a mutant. Yes her powers were redefined. But shes a mutant. She belongs in that story.

Mephisto doesn't belong in a Spidey story (unless its a team up.) My defense for that claim? Well thats why we didn't see Mephisto as the master of the clone saga. They trashed the idea and said "Spider-man doesn't fight mephisto".

Wasn't the spider totem thing bashed for the same reasons? the inclusion of magic to the spidey mythos?

I knew I shouldn't re-read that interview, but I did, anyway. I thought that maybe a year passing would make it so that I could make it through it, without getting pissed off beyond belief and control, but I was wrong.

Does anyone notice how Joe tap-danced around every question? The question asked about how to explain to your children that Peter made a deal with the devil was answered with more tap-dancing than a pre-school dance recital! He basically compared Peter Parker quitting as Spider-Man to Making a deal with the Devil! Then, he answers the question about why he didn't just divorce them by saying that it would be like giving up, versus just THROWING your marriage away to the devil!

Ugh...I'll stop there, as we all know, Joe Q included, that OMD wasn't worth the paper upon which it was printed. Still, it begat BND, which is why I don't read it.

 

[Styleshift]

I knew I shouldn't re-read that interview, but I did, anyway. I thought that maybe a year passing would make it so that I could make it through it, without getting pissed off beyond belief and control, but I was wrong.

Does anyone notice how Joe tap-danced around every question? The question asked about how to explain to your children that Peter made a deal with the devil was answered with more tap-dancing than a pre-school dance recital! He basically compared Peter Parker quitting as Spider-Man to Making a deal with the Devil! Then, he answers the question about why he didn't just divorce them by saying that it would be like giving up, versus just THROWING your marriage away to the devil!

Ugh...I'll stop there, as we all know, Joe Q included, that OMD wasn't worth the paper upon which it was printed. Still, it begat BND, which is why I don't read it.

Your right. Everytime he opens his mouth about Spidey it makes him a really hard guy to like...and he really is one of the best EIC's marvel has had.
(love your blog by the way...you should continue it.)
His comments about fans saying Peter was out of character was totally disingenuous...

He's comparing a story where a 16 year old boy unknowingly made one mistake by turning his head to a crime that resulted in the death of his uncle. a crime that he could have stopped in multiple ways to a story where a 25-27 year old man (who has been at the game for years) that makes a mistake that he completely knew would shatter his life and would possibly put his loved ones in even more danger than they were in before.

 

[Themanofbat]

He's comparing a story where a 16 year old boy unknowingly made one mistake by turning his head to a crime that resulted in the death of his uncle. a crime that he could have stopped in multiple ways to a story where a 25-27 year old man (who has been at the game for years) that makes a mistake that he completely knew would shatter his life and would possibly put his loved ones in even more danger than they were in before.

I'm not here to say that the "unmasking" was in character, but I can see how it happened...

For the first time EVER... Peter is being told by his loved ones; ie Mary Jane & Aunt May, that it's going to be ok... imagine the lifelong hardaches that Peter suffers, from his responsibilities as Spider-Man, as well as the hardships being Spider-Man causes on his friendships and his Aunt May... then all of a sudden, he gets Aunt May's BLESSINGS... yes, she may not have realized the dangers, yes, she might not have understood the complexities of such a decision, and yes, Peter should have realized them... which if you recall the story, he was very against the idea of revealing his identity... but then... for the first time EVER in his life as a costumed hero, he gets the BLESSINGS from the ONE person in his life that means the most... even the most hardened person could be affected by a scene like that... if very plausible that Peter gets wrapped up in his beloved Aunt May's words that all will be ok... And yes, it was a mistake... and certainly not in character... but Peter falling for the positive words of his beloved Aunt May... THAT... certainly WAS in character.

Just my two cents...

 

[farmernudie]

I doesn't make sense for Aunt May or MJ to have ever encouraged it tho, to me personally.

Call me cynical....but i was having a hard time reading the unmasking just as much as the OMD and this reboot...because i know the word bubbles are coming out of these drawn characters mouths...but i feel they shoulda just drawn Joe saying a lot of this stuff.

Even more, if you take it for what she said, Pete then listened to a very old lady give him UNSOUND advice and followed it.

And then this same Aunt May, said she was ok with dying, and didn't listen to her THEN??...but DID listen to the devil..??!!

Odd.

Seems, eveything is based on the convenience of the means to an end of what Joe wanted. That's why it isn't or wasn't about the characters at all, in or out of character.

 

[imdaly]

Well, the island did turn out to be not so deserted. So they have been capable of shaving, taking a shower and stuff like that

That, and they still had razors and other stuff from the luggage of the passengers. I distinctly remember one scene that had Jack shaving with a razor and a mirror.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Isn't that convenient!t:

You should really check out what Lost is about before making such comments. To me, it is the best show on TV now (or at least when it comes back on in February).

I've said before, I wouldn't mind if this did turn into a Lost-like mystery, where Pete finds out clues to what happened, and what reality was like. That would be interesting. But I really don't think that is Marvel's goal. All they wanted to do is have Peter single. They got it, now they want to move on and ignore OMD. Other developments since BND (remasking, Harry, etc) they will try to explain without Mephisto. So basically they're saying Pete & MJ never married, all else will be explained, forget OMD.

And I was trying to think of a retcon for making a deal with the devil. Is it possible that Mephisto made the offer, Pete sought out Dr. Strange, that gave Dr. Strange an idea to help Aunt May, and Dr. Strange helped Pete out to create the illusion to Mephisto that Pete took the deal? I know that is convoluted, but then so was this attempt to split Pete & MJ. I know the details aren't there as to why they aren't married. I was just trying to retcon "Pete makes a deal with the devil."

 

[USMC]

Exactly. It's like with LOST, where the writers of the show knew where they were going and had a plan, but the viewers got frustrated because they wanted answers now and not later. They didn't enjoy watching the myseries unravel in a more creative and rewarding manner. People (like me) who have stuck with the show the whole time are being redeemed now by seeing that, yes, there WAS a plan, and the route and order they went by revealing the myseries of the present, future, and past was done deliberately.

Yes. Just like LOST.

Actually, it's well known by any true Lost fan (guilty as charged) that the writers really didn't have a concrete direction after the first season and a half or so... that's when there seemed to become a heavy imbalance of questions with no answers (sound familiar?) and ratings suffered... slowly, but the decline was apparent enough.

And with that, the writers got ABC to agree to a set number of seasons/episodes, they agreed there must be an ending to a show like this, answers to the questions... this was an unprecedented thing for a network to agree to.

So the writers spent some time cooped up together and mapped out the last 3 seasons of Lost, and came up with answers to some of the most frustrating questions.

And no, they did not have a plan in the beginning.

 

[shinlyle]

You should really check out what Lost is about before making such comments. To me, it is the best show on TV now (or at least when it comes back on in February).

I was being sarcastic, man. That's why I followed the "rollseyes" smiley with the "big grin" smiley. Don't you speak emoticon?t:

I would check out "Lost", but I really just don't see anything that arouses my interests in that show....other than Evangeline Lily(giggity giggity).

Anyways, "The Office" is the best show on television. It's been scientifically proven.

 

[moraldeficiency]

pfff, it's always sunny is clearly the best show on television, anyone saying otherwise is clearly smoking the bad crack.

what would ty pennington do?

 

[shinlyle]

pfff, it's always sunny is clearly the best show on television, anyone saying otherwise is clearly smoking the bad crack.

what would ty pennington do?

Never seen it.

Besides, the Office is the best. FACT.

Why? Because of Black Bears.
Bears eat beets.
Bears.
Beets.
Battlestar Gallactica.


(seriously, I've never seen Philly...and if its on cable, I'll probably never see it, as I live without cable)

 

[moraldeficiency]

Dayman!
Aaaahhhh!
Fighter of the Nightman!
Aaaahhhh!
Champion of the Sun!
Aaaahhhh!
You're a Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone!

^best song in the history of the world.

There are episodes on the internets for free. If you don't think 100 dollar baby is the funniest episode you've ever seen, you're a communist. Or the abortion one. Hell pick any random episode and you'll see the most controversial topic expoited in the funniest possible way.