Quantum Teleportation Between Atomic Systems Over Long Distances

[Boom]

It's an exact replica, what's the difference?

And you stayed to get nuked on Earth because of a difference that you can't pinpoint or describe, that "won't make a difference to other people or the version of you that steps out".

Okay...

Let's say I make a replica of myself. Now let's say we sit down to a cup of coffee and shoot the breeze. We both share the exact same memories and life experiences up until that point. But given that we are both sentient creatures, living two separate lives, we will ultimately begin to differentiate. He may make choices that I wouldn't make, and vice versa.

Now, let's say I decide to pull out a gun and shoot myself in the head. I am dead. My consciousness is not going to transfer to an entirely separate sentient being, regardless of whether or not it had my memories and life experiences up until that time.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The difference is that it's not you.

Take teleportation out of the equation for a second. What if we used the same technology to make an exact copy of you... but you still exist. See how that copy isn't you?

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Wow what have I done to this thread....


And to follow up, the point is its a copy. It may not be proven to everyone else, but you will cease to live. I mean, if I wanted a copy to be there for my kids and such in the even of Earth exploding or something, sure I'd probably step through the teleporter, but at that point everyone is a copy. The key word in all this is COPY, and I guess from there it depends on your theology. If you believe in something, then your dead and likely move on. If you don't, well, YOU just cease to exist, while a COPY continues to live in your place.

 

[Tanin]

Ethics debate on the hype?

Abandon ship!!!

 

[Breogan]

Okay...

Let's say I make a replica of myself. Now let's say we sit down to a cup of coffee and shoot the breeze. We both share the exact same memories and life experiences up until that point. But given that we are both sentient creatures, living two separate lives, we will ultimately begin to differentiate. He may make choices that I wouldn't make, and vice versa.

Now, let's say I decide to pull out a gun and shoot myself in the head. I am dead. My consciousness is not going to transfer to an entirely separate sentient being, regardless of whether or not it had my memories and life experiences up until that time.

All what comes out of the teleporter is an exact copy(ie with one continues experience), Once the yous (no matter how many) have experienced two separate things, they are no longer exact copies. They are until that point though.

 

[Boom]

Once the yous have experienced two separate things, they are no longer exact copies. They are until that point though.

No they aren't, because my copy and I are two separate beings - each with our own consciousness. We are different beings by that very virtue.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Really it's more like cartoon cloning than anything else.

 

[Breogan]

No they aren't, because my copy and I are two separate beings - each with our own consciousness. We are different beings by that very virtue.

By nature of splitting them in two or more that they can not share the same space on "arrival", they are not exact copies to each-other, by splitting them, from that point forward they have separate individual experiences from each-other.

 

[Boom]

 

[Breogan]

The difference is that it's not you.

Take teleportation out of the equation for a second. What if we used the same technology to make an exact copy of you... but you still exist. See how that copy isn't you?

It is the continuation of me, ie still me.
That another me now still exists just means you again are changing the parameters.
You keep inventing multiple copies that cannot share one space therefore will have separate experiences from that point forward.

Unless they can share the same space it's not the same.

How do you not get that?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I was attempting (unsuccessfully) to convey a fairly simple concept, in the simplest way I could think of.

Well, I give up.

 

[Breogan]

I was attempting (unsuccessfully) to convey a fairly simple concept, in the simplest way I could think of.

Well, I give up.

If you don't get how your copy rather than teleport analogy fails, then maybe you should give up.

You probably imagine to distinguish your indiscernible exact copy , by an assumption of fixed positioning. Where the original conveniently stays in one fixed recognizable place, and the copy conveniently appears in a new place.
Try thinking outside what's convenient a little.
If your supposed "copying machine" upon copying must divide the space once occupied by the one, now equally among both. Where they both have to spill over into new space.
Other than both their new positions, there would be no discernible difference of either from the original one.
Since they are both in a new position you have no way to tell one or the other from the original.
To you, to anyone, or even to themselves and their continued unbroken consciousness, they would each think they were the original and would not be able to see or detect any discernible difference between the original (themselves) and the exact 'copy' (also themselves). They would each be the same, and they would know they were the same being they were before, just split in two and moved over either left or right.

And yet from that point forward, they would now be different from each other, beginning with simple positioning as one is to the left one is to the right of the other, followed by all the forthcoming individual experience.

This same applies to Boom's example of multiple teleportations (where fixed positioning is obliterated for all by way of telepotration), yes they would all be exact indiscernible copies of the original (ie the same exact as the original, to you to themselves to anyone) but from that point forward be different from each other, where one could go on to blow it's brains out, while another did not.

 

[zeroapoc]

I was attempting (unsuccessfully) to convey a fairly simple concept, in the simplest way I could think of.

Well, I give up.

Me too. It just isn't sinking in. No matter how many people have tried to explain it.

 

[Farren]

Just to let you guys know (before someone has a metaphysical meltdown), I'm fairly confident the article isn't talking about actually transporting matter (gas) between the containers. No gas clouds were destroyed or duplicated, they were just used as a means of detecting and sending quantum information.

 

[Spider-Who?]

If it is, as was said - "an exact copy" .. that according to you "won't make a difference to other people or the version of you that steps out".
If your memories/experiences all come with, what difference does it make?

Unless you and TheDreamMaster are saying the version is not and exact copy, and will make a difference to you and everyone?

But you are not saying that.

Hmmm I'm thinking you're putting too much emphasize on the word "exact", and not nearly enough thought on "copy/replica". It doesn't matter how accurate a replica is; it doesn't change the fact that it is not the original, which can be affected by things independently of the replica and vice versa.

Let's look at it this way:

You get into a teleporter to go from point A to point C. Point B is the teleportation process itself.

You turn the teleporter on. You've reached Point B. The teleporter analyzes you for replication and then breaks you down to the atomic level, killing you.

Across the galaxy, at point C, the teleporter uses information from its analysis and constructs a duplicate of you. It's essentially a clone.

The original, true you ceased to exist at point B. Your body was destroyed, and your consciousness died with it. Yes, a copy of you may have walked out at Point C, but it is just a clone, a glorified photocopy of what the teleporter analyzed at point B. The original, true you does not continue being simply because a copy was made before death.

Look at it another way: if I photocopy a page from a book and then draw all over the duplicate page, the drawings don't magically appear on original page. That's because even though they both have the exact same text, they are still totally separate entities. In a similar vein, the point C version of you is an entity that is totally separate from the original point A you. Your consciousness does not carry over to the replica because it dies; the real you will not exist not be connected or share the experiences of the duplicate you. The duplicate you is nothing more than an artificial version, an imposter if you will.

Sure none of this will matter to the duplicate since he will be alive thinking he's you, and your friends and family can probably legitimize the situation, but it most certainly should matter to YOU, because when you step into that teleporter, YOU will die. You will cease to think, see, feel, breathe, you will cease to exist, and an artificial version will take your place. The accuracy of that replica won't change that fact.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The concerns for uploading one's brain onto a computer / robot are kind of similar.

Though perhaps some people are fine with being destroy and replicated.

I find it disturbing as hell.

 

[Breogan]

Hmmm I'm thinking you're putting too much emphasize on the word "exact", and not nearly enough thought on "copy/replica". It doesn't matter how accurate a replica is...

...Across the galaxy, at point C, the teleporter uses information from its analysis and constructs a duplicate of you. It's essentially a clone. ....

The original, true you ceased to exist at point B. Your body was destroyed, and your consciousness died with it. Yes, a copy of you may have walked out at Point C, but it is just a clone, a glorified photocopy ...

Actually it does mater, to the conversation we were having because we were talking about an exact copy.

... the point is its a copy. ...The key word in all this is COPY...

Actually the point and key words are exact copy.

Joe Forger can make a copy of a signature or painting or sculpture, that yes will be detectable as a copy by an expert, Dr. Kamino can make a clone (genetic copy), but it will never have the exact same memories and experiences.
The hypothetical teleporter being discussed makes exact copies, down to the sub-atomic sub-quark whatever level, with the all the exact memories and experiences, completely indistinguishable and undetectable from the original to anyone, even themselves.

By NOW dropping the word exact out of the conversation you change the nature of the post I was replying to from the start.

But nice try now leaving off that key word.

... the point C version of you is an entity that is totally separate from the original point A you. Your consciousness does not carry over to the replica because it dies; the real you will not exist not be connected or share the experiences of the duplicate you. The duplicate you is nothing more than an artificial version, an imposter if you will.

The "duplicate you being discussed is - "Your memories/experiences all come with, ... it's "an exact copy" ... that "won't make a difference to other people or the version of you that steps out".

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The real fact is, it's an unanswerable question. Much like, what happens to conciousness after death. Does it persist? Is there an afterlife? Or is it oblivion?

All the atoms, or rather information, that comprise you do not stop existing, that is impossible. They merely disappear in one area of space and reappear (in the same instant) in another area, constructed all from the eternal indestructible information of how to build you. From the objective viewpoint, it is you, there is no divergence as at no point is there ever two of you.

By the same token, every planck second your atoms all disappear in one area of space and reappear in another, and therefore, if you believe your conciousness dies in teleportation, your entire existence is just a perception of continued life whilst really it is just an extended, massive number of deaths. So from the subjective viewpoint, not only is teleportation death, but so could every single incomprehensibly small unit of your life.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

The concerns for uploading one's brain onto a computer / robot are kind of similar.

Though perhaps some people are fine with being destroy and replicated.

I find it disturbing as hell.

I do too.

Basically what we're all saying is you could successfully teleport from one point to another but you for while an exact copy is built at the exit point. You exist but YOU are dead while an copy with its own consciousness exists. The point is no one here wants to possibly die to get themselves across the universe.
The point were trying to make Mondragon is that we don't want to die when teleporting.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I still doubt we'll ever transport people. Isn't it thought actual teleportation kills the original and makes an exact copy at the other end?

I don't believe so....
If it's possible or not, i have no idea, but the logic states that teleportation means the ability to transform matter into data or light, and by that, make it appear in another place.
That, or the ability to bend space, which will make teleportation the same as "open a door a walk in".

How would we react to being turned into light or data?
I believe it would be like falling asleep.

If this is possible or not is anyone's guess, but it will impossible in our life time

 

[zeroapoc]

I don't believe so....
How would we react to being turned into light or data?

That reminds me of a Stephen King short story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt

 

[moviedoors]

Actually it does mater, to the conversation we were having because we were talking about an exact copy.




Actually the point and key words are exact copy.

Joe Forger can make a copy of a signature or painting or sculpture, that yes will be detectable as a copy by an expert, Dr. Kamino can make a clone (genetic copy), but it will never have the exact same memories and experiences.
The hypothetical teleporter being discussed makes exact copies, down to the sub-atomic sub-quark whatever level, with the all the exact memories and experiences, completely indistinguishable and undetectable from the original to anyone, even themselves.

By NOW dropping the word exact out of the conversation you change the nature of the post I was replying to from the start.

But nice try now leaving off that key word.



The "duplicate you being discussed is - "Your memories/experiences all come with, ... it's "an exact copy" ... that "won't make a difference to other people or the version of you that steps out".

Exact copy, bad copy, negative copy. It makes no difference. It's still just a copy and you're still dead.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Can't be said. Again. A copy requires there being at some point there being two of something, the original and the copy. In teleportation the original merely stops existing in one point of space and starts existing in another.

Guess what happens when you walk, hell, even when you're still? Your atoms move from one part of space, to another. By the same principle, you could be dying every planck second of your existence, but you don't know it because you create a new conciousness.

 

[zeroapoc]

That kinda seems "reductio ad absurdum" to me.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The thing is though, it's the same principle and principles that apply in one area of particle physics apply everywhere (on the subatomic scale) you cannot extend it to a ridiculous point, there is a smallest unit of space. When you pass over it, your atoms have stopped existing in one place and began existing in another. With a replicated conciousness, you'd never know if you only truly "live" for a tiny amount of time.