Comics Question about Xorn (New X-Men) *SPOILERS*

[Krazy W]

When Cyclops visits Xorn in China for his help against Cassandra Nova, we see Xorn reviving a supposedly dead bird. Since Xorn was in fact Magneto, how was this possible?

 

[Havok83]

Xorn was not Magneto. He was posing as Magneto. The healing was originally explained as nano machines

 

[mightiest_mortal]

its a simple magic trick... even David Blaine can do that, http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/action/viewvideo/8513/Bringing_a_dead_bird_back_to_life/

 

[chambervii]

Try reading this:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=4&fldAuto=336

 

[Krazy W]

Try reading this:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=4&fldAuto=336

Thanks. I'll go check that out now.

Xorn was not Magneto. He was posing as Magneto.

I'm not swallowing that retcon for a second.

 

[Havok83]

Thanks. I'll go check that out now.



I'm not swallowing that retcon for a second.

and why not? It is what it is. Magneto showed up in Excalibur v3. right after the Xorn reveal in New X-men. His appearance in that series, completely discredited the Xorn stuff. You may not want to believe it, but Xorn wasnt really Magneto and thats the story Marvel is going with

 

[chambervii]

Magneto was written out of character as Xorn. And like you mentioned, how can Magneto revive a supposedly dead bird?

 

[Krazy W]

and why not? It is what it is. Magneto showed up in Excalibur v3. right after the Xorn reveal in New X-men. His appearance in that series, completely discredited the Xorn stuff. You may not want to believe it, but Xorn wasnt really Magneto and thats the story Marvel is going with

That's the beauty of interpretation. I don't follow the letter of the law. I appreciate Grant Morrison's work for what it is.

Magneto was written out of character as Xorn. And like you mentioned, how can Magneto revive a supposedly dead bird?

Well, surely Magneto could have emitted an electromagnetic charge to defibrillate the bird's heartbeat?

 

[UraniaChang]

I like this tread, I've never quite figured out just whether or not Xorn was Magneto in disguise.

 

[Havok83]

I like this tread, I've never quite figured out just whether or not Xorn was Magneto in disguise.

Xorn was Magneto in disguise. We learn in Excalibur v3, that Magneto never rejoined the X-men and wasnt present during the attack on NY and in Austen's first arc on X-men, that Xorn really did exist and in fact that there were 2 of them

 

[UraniaChang]

Oh, thanks for the information.

 

[Krazy W]

Xorn was Magneto in disguise. We learn in Excalibur v3, that Magneto never rejoined the X-men and wasnt present during the attack on NY and in Austen's first arc on X-men, that Xorn really did exist and in fact that there were 2 of them

Now try saying that with a straight face. It's dumb, that's why.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Now try saying that with a straight face. It's dumb, that's why.

Agreed 100%.

To answer the thread succinctly, there are technically two explanations, one of which is in continuity. At the time the story was written, Xorn was actually Magneto, and he revived the bird with either EMPs that restarted its heart, or by manipulating the nanotechnology he also used to repair Xavier's spine.

However, that was blown to **** two months after Morrison left, and the in continuity explanation is that the character appearing in Morrison's New X-Men was Xorn disguised as Magneto disguised as Xorn, and he actually did heal the bird, but apparently not Charles' spine. Or something.

 

[Havok83]

yeah it was one big clusterf--k. I dont get why Marvel would Morrison's story if they were going to retcon it just a couple of months later. Usually retcons happen years later, not THAT soon after hte original story. Could you imagine of the Jean/Phoenix X-factor retcon happened 3 months after CC wrote the Dark Phoenix Saga

 

[Manic]

Now try saying that with a straight face. It's dumb, that's why.

But is it dumber than "Magneto poses as a Chinese mutant in an iron mask, starts taking drugs, has a sexual affair with a jailbait student, and recruits Xavier's "special ed" class as his new Brotherhood"?

 

[Krazy W]

But is it dumber than "Magneto poses as a Chinese mutant in an iron mask, starts taking drugs, has a sexual affair with a jailbait student, and recruits Xavier's "special ed" class as his new Brotherhood"?

I think Grant Morrison recognised the need for change, and delivered an original spin on Magneto's character. He was kind of poking fun at Magneto's tired charade as the mutant martyr and how out of touch he had become, such as his failed PR and his dependency on drugs to boost his powers. It's probably because of this that Marvel wanted to retcon the whole thing. They couldn't stand Magneto becoming so risque. Not the Master of Magnetism, oh no.

and recruits Xavier's "special ed" class as his new Brotherhood"?

I believe Toad even raises that point, to which Magneto replies: 'We build our armies where we can, Toad... we were all losers once. Remember?'

 

[Manic]

I think Grant Morrison recognised the need for change, and delivered an original spin on Magneto's character. He was kind of poking fun at Magneto's tired charade as the mutant martyr and how out of touch he had become, such as his failed PR and his dependency on drugs to boost his powers. It's probably because of this that Marvel wanted to retcon the whole thing. They couldn't stand Magneto becoming so risque. Not the Master of Magnetism, oh no.

I don't think it had to do with Magneto being risque so much as it had to do with Magneto being written like a whiny little b****. Even when Magneto makes his regular transitions back to villainy, he comes up with a plan where he intends to accomplish something. Magneto's final attack on the Xavier Institute and Manhattan had all the hallmarks of a man who wanted to be killed. He nearly killed the kids when he blew up the school, lashed out against the people of Manhattan for what happened in Genosha (despite the fact that he knew Cassandra was responsible for Genosha, and they already took her down), stood there and taunted the X-Men with a mini-militia of special ed students, and drove it all home by killing Jean Grey-Summers for no particular reason. He did nothing but cause enough death and destruction to provoke someone into killing him (if not the X-Men, the US military would've shown up to slaughter them). He certainly didn't have enough power or a sizable army to take over the world. Hell, he didn't have enough power or resources to take over New York. His plan lacked all logic.

And if Magneto wanted to be a martyr, he should've just stayed in hiding and let the world continue to think he was dead. By the time Xorn joined the X-Men, Magneto was already a martyr.

His plan accomplished nothing, and had no chance of accomplishing anything. It was nonsensical villainy, and a total bastardization of the character. And considering I like Magneto more as an anti-villain than anything, you can imagine how pissed off I was at the whole story.

 

[Krazy W]

I don't think it had to do with Magneto being risque so much as it had to do with Magneto being written like a whiny little b****. Even when Magneto makes his regular transitions back to villainy, he comes up with a plan where he intends to accomplish something. Magneto's final attack on the Xavier Institute and Manhattan had all the hallmarks of a man who wanted to be killed. He nearly killed the kids when he blew up the school, lashed out against the people of Manhattan for what happened in Genosha (despite the fact that he knew Cassandra was responsible for Genosha, and they already took her down), stood there and taunted the X-Men with a mini-militia of special ed students, and drove it all home by killing Jean Grey-Summers for no particular reason. He did nothing but cause enough death and destruction to provoke someone into killing him (if not the X-Men, the US military would've shown up to slaughter them). He certainly didn't have enough power or a sizable army to take over the world. Hell, he didn't have enough power or resources to take over New York. His plan lacked all logic.

The Genosha speech was mutant propaganda. He even says as much to Charles (in stasis) 'I've told them so many lies, old friend.... engineered a species war in your name...' Magneto is a radical. He was using any means to provoke war with mankind. What better way than to bring the war to you? It wasn't just senseless destruction, he was trying to shape the world his own way whilst goading both sides into conflict.

As for killing Jean, well you have to understand he was hardly right in the head at that point. His plans had collapsed, Cyclops had fried his face, and he was suffering with an identity crisis. He was angry, and didn't want to be patronized by "children".

And if Magneto wanted to be a martyr, he should've just stayed in hiding and let the world continue to think he was dead. By the time Xorn joined the X-Men, Magneto was already a martyr.

This is exactly what Xavier says, and the tragedy of it all. Magneto had become inspirational in "death", but couldn't resist trying to impose his beliefs on others one more time. I thought the 'magnetic recording' was a great red herring for the Xorn plot twist.

His plan accomplished nothing, and had no chance of accomplishing anything. It was nonsensical villainy, and a total bastardization of the character. And considering I like Magneto more as an anti-villain than anything, you can imagine how pissed off I was at the whole story.

It sounds like it just wasn't to your taste. That's fair enough, but I think you're missing the point of Grant Morrison's work. It's supposed to be about Magneto losing his way, falling from grace. Yes, he had a plan (to reverse the magnetic poles and destroy mankind) but it's lot more personal than that.

Digressing a little, I've read that Marvel wanted Morrison to keep Xorn an original creation (which he duly refused) and this is one reason why they later retconned the whole thing and introduced his twin Shen Xorn. Now instead of botching the story and contriving a twin... I think they could have introduced Shen Xorn as the inspiration behind Magneto's charade? You know, nothing deep just a flashback of them meeting or something.

 

[Nitehawk013]

Few things in comicdom have ever made me as happy as the total retcon destruction of Grant Morrison's hackjob wiht the X-Men, and especially Magneto.

Magneto is best written as the rather majestic anti-villain. Yes he plays the part of villain, but he isn't really a villain. He is a man who saw his family eradicated because they were different and he will not allow the same to happen to Mutantkind. So he takes a militant stance. He will bring war if necessary and force mutantkind to rule so as not to be destroyed.

He is not a psychotic, drug addicted crybaby who makes nonsensical moves that will not further his goals. The whole Planet X storyline was an affront to all good Magneto writing. It was disgusting and thankfully Morrison's abomination was erased.

 

[Krazy W]

Funny, 'cos I still have copies where Xorn is very much Magneto. Unless of course you work for the canon police?

Magneto is not an anti-hero. Make no mistake, he's a villain whether his motives are misguided or not. Someone like Wolverine would be classed as an anti-hero, but not Magneto.

 

[chambervii]

Funny, 'cos I still have copies where Xorn is very much Magneto. Unless of course you work for the canon police?

Magneto is not an anti-hero. Make no mistake, he's a villain whether his motives are misguided or not. Someone like Wolverine would be classed as an anti-hero, but not Magneto.

And there are recent issues in which Magneto is still alive. Xorn was killed by Wolverine in New X-Men #150. Nobody is going to stop you for thinking Xorn is Magneto. But the world moves on.

 

[Manic]

Funny, 'cos I still have copies where Xorn is very much Magneto. Unless of course you work for the canon police?

Magneto is not an anti-hero. Make no mistake, he's a villain whether his motives are misguided or not. Someone like Wolverine would be classed as an anti-hero, but not Magneto.

We said anti-villain. It's the reverse an an anti-hero. Magneto is a villain with heroic tendencies. He wants mutants to live in peace with humanity, even if he has to take over the world a kill every human who gets in his way to do it. Risking a double-genocide that would wipe out the remaining mutants on Earth as well as the humans (like, say, destroying every ecosystem on Earth by reversing the polarity of the entire planet) isn't something Magneto would do. Also, using drugs is beneath him.

 

[Havok83]

We said anti-villain. It's the reverse an an anti-hero. Magneto is a villain with heroic tendencies. He wants mutants to live in peace with humanity, even if he has to take over the world a kill every human who gets in his way to do it. Risking a double-genocide that would wipe out the remaining mutants on Earth as well as the humans (like, say, destroying every ecosystem on Earth by reversing the polarity of the entire planet) isn't something Magneto would do. Also, using drugs is beneath him.

as is using & killing kids. He nearly lost it &changed his ways when he almost killed Kitty accidentally

 

[Krazy W]

Also, using drugs is beneath him.

Says who? Under the right circumstances, why wouldn't Magneto take drugs? See the thing is, you're taking the character out of context and applying a literal interpretation to him. Writers need to keep things fresh, otherwise Magneto could be written off as the same old villain/anti-villain/takeyourpick. Where's the fun in that? It gets repetitive and routine. Morrison was pushing Magneto over the edge to deliver a fresh perspective whilst maintaining the gist of the character, and he was well within his rights to do so.

Magneto wanting to save mankind during Marvel Zombies... now THAT'S stupid.

 

[Manic]

Magneto wanting to save mankind during Marvel Zombies makes perfect sense. Why would he find a zombie infestation more favorable than mankind?

You know, for years I've wonder why it is that writers make a habit of throwing away years of Magneto's character growth in favor of making him a maniacal villain. You'd figure anyone who had the least bit of respect for the character would know better. But then there are people like you, Krazy W, who remind me that some people just want to see bad guys who are pure evil.

By the way, I also shook my head at Magneto's appearance in Uncanny X-Men #500.