The Dark Knight Quit comparing Two-Face to Venom...

TLH

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Every so often I come across a thread or post where some are saying that Two-Face was treated in TDK like Venom was treated in SM3. I want to put an end to this. Here are a few reasons I feel that Two-Face was not treated like Venom:

1.) Harvey Dent was a fleshed-out character. Eddie Brock...not so much.

Harvey Dent’s fall is arguably more complex and compelling than Eddie Brock’s in Spider-Man 3. This is largely due to the fact that Dent had significantly more screen time than Brock; in fact, many have acknowledged that Harvey Two-Face is as large a character in TDK as Bruce Wayne/Batman and The Joker were.

2.) Two-Face appeared in more scenes/had more screen time than Venom.

Dent appears in seven scenes as his scarred, alter-ego:
(1) Hospital scene with his scarred coin. (46 seconds)
(2) Hospital scene with Gordon. (1 minute, 39 seconds)
(3) Hospital scene with the Joker. (4 minutes, 23 seconds)
(4) Bar scene with Wuertz. (1 minute, 2 seconds)
(5) Limo scene with Maroni. (1 minute, 35 seconds)
(6) Alleyway scene with Ramirez. (47 seconds)
(7) Hostage scene with Gordon and Batman. (8 minutes, 13 seconds)

Total: 18 minutes, 15 seconds

Venom, on the other hand, appears in less than half as many scenes with, also, less than half as much screen time (I believe it's around 8 minutes?).

3.) Two-Face looked more faithful than Venom.

Of course the definition of "faithful" varies, but Eddie Brock is supposed to be a body-builder, not a wise-cracking weakling. Venom is supposed to be significantly larger than Spider-Man, not slightly bigger. He also had a bizarre-looking jaw. Why was the white spider on his chest impossible to see? His voice barely changed as well. This is a fantasy world, not a realistic world like Nolan's, so why leave this stuff out? I think that most of us can agree that Harvey Two-Face was as gruesome as most of us expect the character to be, etc...

4.) Two-Face was named. Venom was not.

Self-explanatory.

Remember, this is not a which character was better? thread. This is just an attempt to end the belief that Two-Face got the shaft in the same way that Venom did in Spider-Man 3. True, we were left wanting more because Two-Face was so great while he lasted, but please, let these points persuade you that Two-Face was not treated like Venom was. I wanted more too, but I can't stand when people say Two-Face was treated like Venom.
 
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Nice analysis there, I was wondering when someone was gonna do that. Now if anyone wants to actually sit through any of Venom's scenes to do a comparison...

Was Venom only in for 8 minutes? It seemed a LITTLE longer, but even so, Harvey had MORE scenes AND better scenes.
 
The two face versus venom is an oversimplified comparison and this analysis is superfluous exposition.
 
Quit downloading movies.

All of Two-Face's scenes are up on youtube. :o

The two face versus venom is an oversimplified comparison and this analysis is superfluous exposition.

So, let me get this straight. You believe the comparison is oversimplified, yet you also believe that it's nothing more than superfluous exposition. Holy contradiction, Batman!
 
Two-Face didn't get the Venom treatment because for one, he was actually a character in the movie. Not only that but he was a main character, one of the lead protagonists. And there are many people who could argue that the movie was basically the rise and fall of Harvey Dent. He connected somehow to every character and was in damn near all of the scenes. He was established well and was established why he was so darn important. And when he does become Two-Face, it's established just how terrible he has fallen and the power his death holds if it's ever found out about him.

Venom was just there randomly. He appears, is a jerk, gets embarrased then gets the symbiotic and causes trouble for a few minutes before dying. The guy was barely a subplot.
 
Venom was never actually called "Venom" in the movie either. lol
 
so you were counting minutes and seconds ?


p.s. who is even comparing TF to venom?
 
so you were counting minutes and seconds ?

It doesn't take long to just find all the clips of Two-Face's scenes on youtube, add up their times and get a total.

p.s. who is even comparing TF to venom?

It's happened here and there. Every so often you get somebody complaining about how Two-Face was treated like Venom.
 
It doesn't take long to just find all the clips of Two-Face's scenes on youtube, add up their times and get a total.



It's happened here and there. Every so often you get somebody complaining about how Two-Face was treated like Venom.
well i didnt notice. more people would have to notice people complaining that TF is like venom to make this a big problem.
just because two people said this you can not make a thread about htem. well you can and you did :hehe:
 
I like this topic and it great to know how much screen time he actually had. He definitely didn't have the venom treatment. Two-face and the way harvey was handled as a whole is the way brock/venom should have been handled in Spider-man 3. This movie is proof that you can bring in a villain late in the movie and still have him be effective. It was probably just sam raimi's lack of interest that resulted in the brock/venom we got.
 
I remember this little "debate" going on on opening day, right here, after I came back from the theater.
 
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This is a great thread. You're a genius, Yas.
 
I don't ever want to see the monstrosity of Spiderman 3 compared to TDK ever. EVER. AGAIN. JUST DONT DO IT.
 
I really hate SM3. It was really awful. As far as comparing Venom to Two-Face, I'm pretty sure I saw Two-Face reflection in Batman's eye on the poster.
 

1.) Harvey Dent was a fleshed-out character. Eddie Brock...not so much.

Harvey Dent’s fall is arguably more complex and compelling than Eddie Brock’s in Spider-Man 3. This is largely due to the fact that Dent had significantly more screen time than Brock; in fact, many have acknowledged that Harvey Two-Face is as large a character in TDK as Bruce Wayne/Batman and The Joker were.


There is no "arguably". It just is. Period.

2.) Two-Face appeared in more scenes/had more screen time than Venom.

Total: 18 minutes, 15 seconds
Your attention to detail is impressive and yet eerily fanatical at the same time.

3.) Two-Face looked more faithful than Venom.

Of course the definition of "faithful" varies, but Eddie Brock is supposed to be a body-builder, not a wise-cracking weakling. Venom is supposed to be significantly larger than Spider-Man, not slightly bigger. He also had a bizarre-looking jaw. Why was the white spider on his chest impossible to see? His voice barely changed as well. This is a fantasy world, not a realistic world like Nolan's, so why leave this stuff out? I think that most of us can agree that Harvey Two-Face was as gruesome as most of us expect the character to be, etc...
THC should've been Eddie Brock in a completely different take imo, but that's neither here nor there: only speculative drivel at this point.[/quote]

I agree with you on these points. A lot. :up:

4.) Two-Face was named. Venom was not.

Self-explanatory.

Remember, this is not a which character was better? thread. This is just an attempt to end the belief that Two-Face got the shaft in the same way that Venom did in Spider-Man 3. True, we were left wanting more because Two-Face was so great while he lasted, but please, let these points persuade you that Two-Face was not treated like Venom was. I wanted more too, but I can't stand when people say Two-Face was treated like Venom.[/quote]
:huh:Harvey Dent definitely didn't get the shaft. The film was his story. Joker's explanation about White/Dark. . .eh, no bother. Anyone who would say that didn't even listen to Joker's explanation.

Nirvana's right Yas: Great thread, and nice info to support your topic.:up:

Comparing Eddie Brock and Harvey Dent is an incredibly foolish thing to do in the first place. Eddie Brock is out for himself; it's no surprise that someone who's out for their own personal interest will go from bad to worse if they're endowed with abilities from an alien symbiote that has a penchant for evil. Imo, Eddie wasn't seduced into any wrong. He revealed his nature when the opportunity arose.

Dent was corrupted by a series of unfortunate events. A serial killer with an axe to grind made him a target, disrupted his life, and ultimately ruined it. He was birthed in a sense, but Brock was venomous long before the symbiote came into his life.
 
So, let me get this straight. You believe the comparison is oversimplified, yet you also believe that it's nothing more than superfluous exposition. Holy contradiction, Batman!

No. I believe the comparison is an oversimplification and I also believe your response is a superfluous exposition
Got it? Get it? Good.
 
No. I believe the comparison is an oversimplification and I also believe your response is a superfluous exposition
Got it? Get it? Good.

Let me explain a few things about the Hype to you seeing as how you're fairly new.

First, this website is full of fanatics who will argue things to the death, so no "exposition" is ever "superfluous". If you don't support your claims on this forum you will get eaten alive.

Second, posting in huge letters is extremely annoying. We don't like that. Not. One. Bit. So, me watching, some mod will take the ban button to you -- laughing while he does it. (I'm kidding, of course).

:o
 
I would just like to contend that while Point 2 is technically accurate, it is precisely why there are people comparing the two. Whether it be 18 minutes or 8, neither are simply enough for a cinematic translation, to a lot of fans.

So while the character as a whole (read: Harvey) got his due, his villainous persona did not imo, regardless of being handled better and with more care than Venom.
 
I would just like to contend that while Point 2 is technically accurate, it is precisely why there are people comparing the two. Whether it be 18 minutes or 8, neither are simply enough for a cinematic translation, to a lot of fans.

So while the character as a whole (read: Harvey) got his due, his villainous persona did not imo, regardless of being handled better and with more care than Venom.

Hard to disagree. 18 minutes does not feel like enough for a cinematic translation, but it seems to be a unfair pairing when some people consider Two-Face to be like Venom in terms of treatment. Harvey becomes Two-Face with just under half of the film to go, opposed to becoming his alter ego with 1/8th of the film to go (like Venom did).

My reply to what you've said would be that: Two-Face was fantastic and left us wanting more. Venom was a disappointment and left us wanting something different. ( 'us' being most people)
 
Hard to disagree. 18 minutes does not feel like enough for a cinematic translation, but it seems to be a unfair pairing when some people consider Two-Face to be like Venom in terms of treatment. Harvey becomes Two-Face with just under half of the film to go, opposed to becoming his alter ego with 1/8th of the film to go (like Venom did).

My reply to what you've said would be that: Two-Face was fantastic and left us wanting more. Venom was a disappointment and left us wanting something different. ( 'us' being most people)
I agree, but I don't think screentime matters that much. 18 minutes, isn't that what Hopkins had in Silence. He sure made his mark.:woot:
 
How the hell was anyone comparing Venom to Two Face? Two Face had an actual reason for being in the movie. He had a character arc. Venom didn't.

Plus, Venom is just a lame, overrated villain, anyway. He got the treatment he deserved, IMO. Even Sam Raimi said he could not understand the appeal of the character when he researched him in the comic books.
 
all i have to say is spiderman 3 was one of the worst movies i've ever seen
 

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