Superman Returns Re: The Offical Jason Appreciation Thread

[fangrl06]

Look at the nice no-win situation you've set up for yourself. If he succumbs, he breaks up a family and he's selfish. If he does the noble thing, he's angsty spider-man and you'll hate it.

ANd we're not supposed to see that you're setting yourself up for disappointment?

 

[The Kid]

what? sorry....i can never understand what you are talking about.....

that was meant for superman79

 

[Batman the 6th]

Jurassic Park 4 hasn't come out yet. Besides, each one of those movies had kids in them. Mummy wasn't bad. Zorro was bad, but not just because of the kid. What about Rush hour? Was that bad? No.

 

[MoreCowbell]

what? sorry....i can never understand what you are talking about.....

79 was saying he doesn't trust WB because of things Superman Lives and FR said they didn't make it, 79 said they almost did though and finally FR said almost doesn't count.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

Thanks Cowbell. And Wes

 

[Superman79]

almost doesn't count.



Look at the nice no-win situation you've set up for yourself. If he succumbs, he breaks up a family and he's selfish. If he does the noble thing, he's angsty spider-man and you'll hate it.

ANd we're not supposed to see that you're setting yourself up for disappointment?

See my above post...I'm not going to be that disappointed, it is just going to take some adjusting.

Kid aside for a moment...

I am just curious though, and this is outside the movie too, why every hero needs to have a big character flaw to be interesting. I mean all our hero's nowadays whether fictional or real life are flawed:

Dimaggio beat Marilyn Monroe
Batman is nuts
Michael Jordan is an addicted gambler and womanizer
Punisher...is nuts
Half of MLB uses 'roids
Spider-man can't just come to grips with his emotions
Daredevil, Iron Man, Kobe Bryant, TIger Woods...I could go on and on.

And I could go on. Why can we not have one hero who is better, one who gives us something to strive to be...something to aspire to you know...truth, justice and all that other stuff...I don't know, i guess above all I'm losing my faith in heros, all of them, even the one i thought could never lose his luster, one who wouldn't bend or break in this f'ed up world.

I guess that's what depresses me the most. Not the kid, not the suit, nothing...just the thought that the song is right..."It's just too heavy for Superman to lift."

YOu can go ahead and flame me now...

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

What you want is a personal jesus, not a compelling fictional character. It's ALWAYS been that way, not a sign of the times.

I'm not flaming you, but it's this adherence to the concept of the limitations on a hero that allow the definition of hero to stagnate, and box and hem in our heroes so that they become self-parody after awhile because people won't let the myth stretch out and breathe.

You telling me that people will suddenly NOT want to be Superman because of this movie? Because he has a kid now? Fatherhood is now detrimental to being a hero? Many fathers of many stripes would be amazed to hear this.

As a matter of fact, most of the arguments against Superman being a father, while claiming to stand up for "Family values" or whatnot, seem to, unknowingly, attack the concepts and positives ABOUT the job of being a father. As if it's something too lesser and mundane for Superman to ever bother with.

And that's sad.

 

[MoreCowbell]

See my above post...I'm not going to be that disappointed, it is just going to take some adjusting.

Kid aside for a moment...

I am just curious though, and this is outside the movie too, why every hero needs to have a big character flaw to be interesting. I mean all our hero's nowadays whether fictional or real life are flawed:

Dimaggio beat Marilyn Monroe
Batman is nuts
Michael Jordan is an addicted gambler and womanizer
Punisher...is nuts
Half of MLB uses 'roids
Spider-man can't just come to grips with his emotions
Daredevil, Iron Man, Kobe Bryant, TIger Woods...I could go on and on.

And I could go on. Why can we not have one hero who is better, one who gives us something to strive to be...something to aspire to you know...truth, justice and all that other stuff...I don't know, i guess above all I'm losing my faith in heros, all of them, even the one i thought could never lose his luster, one who wouldn't bend or break in this f'ed up world.

I guess that's what depresses me the most. Not the kid, not the suit, nothing...just the thought that the song is right..."It's just too heavy for Superman to lift."

YOu can go ahead and flame me now...

Hero's aren't perfect because they're people. This is why superman is so special. We WANT to see him perfect, god-like even. But at the end of the day he really is human and as people it suppose to aspire us to be the best we can be. Perfect is an illusion.

 

[Superman79]

What you want is a personal jesus, not a compelling fictional character. It's ALWAYS been that way, not a sign of the times.

I'm not flaming you, but it's this adherence to the concept of the limitations on a hero that allow the definition of hero to stagnate, and box and hem in our heroes so that they become self-parody after awhile because people won't let the myth stretch out and breathe.

You telling me that people will suddenly NOT want to be Superman because of this movie? Because he has a kid now? Fatherhood is now detrimental to being a hero? Many fathers of many stripes would be amazed to hear this.

As a matter of fact, most of the arguments against Superman being a fatherhood, while claiming to stand up for "Family values" or whatnot, seem to, unknowingly, attack the concepts and positives ABOUT the job of being a father. As if it's something too lesser and mundane for Superman to ever bother with.

And that's sad.

I was not writing that in reference to fatherhood...it was in reference to the overall tone the film was taking.

Fatherhood is great IMO...I love my dad and if I can find a girl who can put up with me I plan to have kids some day...

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm just voicing my worries here. In no way am I ripping SR. I have waited over 20 years for this and I look forward to it. I already have my tickets for Tuesday nite's opening and again that Friday.

What I am saying is I trust WB as far as I can throw them , they are notorious for screwing things up (Batman Forever and Batman and Robin anyone??), and until SInger is 1000% penned for the next one, i'm gonna worry where the kid thing is going to lead.

THat and again, I personally think it is a bit too early in the story for Daddy-Supes. I can get past that, but when you get folks on here saying "ooo..wouldn't it be great to have Jason be a little side-kick." Or "Have Dadman teach him about his powers and see him discover them and help save the world" it creeps me out because that is exaclty the kind of thinking that gets us a Disney-fied huggy Bambi-fied Sky High cheesey version of Superman that should not happen IMHO. If they want to see discovered powers and learning to used them watch Smallville. If they want a side-kick watch Batman and Robin.

I am sorry if that felt like a rant, but after seeing how the Batman franchise went down in greater flames than Superman 4 did to SUperman...i get very worried I don't want to have to wait 20 years in between Superman movies

Who said that...me and you will kick their ass together.

Believe me, I'm on your side about this and how it should be portrayed. I'm even more stringent because I'm thinking of Lois too. However, Sky High and all that sounds stupid and it sounds stupid. No more needs to be said.

 

[Superman79]

Hero's aren't perfect because they're people. This is why superman is so special. We WANT to see him perfect, god-like even. But at the end of the day he really is human and as people it suppose to aspire us to be the best we can be. Perfect is an illusion.

Yes, i guess I just thought his flaws of lonliness, caring too much and felling responsible for everyone else were powerful enough without add further grief and angst in the form of other lovers and all that.

 

[The Kid]

Jurassic Park 4 hasn't come out yet. Besides, each one of those movies had kids in them. Mummy wasn't bad. Zorro was bad, but not just because of the kid. What about Rush hour? Was that bad? No.

I'd say it depends on the similarity of the situation. My mind tells me this is forrest gump on steroids mixed with a little notebook. It could work. Shortround was a pretty useless addition to indy, but I felt he worked as he showed a different side to indiana that we just won't get with his normal regular non-sidekick stories. what's wrong with that?

 

[bsquad]

its like people are taking what is admitingly a confusing situation and turning it into a reason that defies Superman's values and what he stands for. I don't think a child does that. And I don't think Superman being willing to give up the woman he loves, not wanting to break up a happy home and yet promising Lois and the kid that he will be there goes against what he stands for.

 

[charl_huntress]

What you want is a personal jesus, not a compelling fictional character. It's ALWAYS been that way, not a sign of the times.

I'm not flaming you, but it's this adherence to the concept of the limitations on a hero that allow the definition of hero to stagnate, and box and hem in our heroes so that they become self-parody after awhile because people won't let the myth stretch out and breathe.

You telling me that people will suddenly NOT want to be Superman because of this movie? Because he has a kid now? Fatherhood is now detrimental to being a hero? Many fathers of many stripes would be amazed to hear this.

As a matter of fact, most of the arguments against Superman being a father, while claiming to stand up for "Family values" or whatnot, seem to, unknowingly, attack the concepts and positives ABOUT the job of being a father. As if it's something too lesser and mundane for Superman to ever bother with.

And that's sad.

 

[Superman79]

Who said that...me and you will kick their ass together.

Believe me, I'm on your side about this and how it should be portrayed. I'm even more stringent because I'm thinking of Lois too. However, Sky High and all that sounds stupid and it sounds stupid. No more needs to be said.

I'm taking you up on that.Well here's one:

I'm super happy, It's about time these two super couple have super kids . [I want to see Clark teach his son to deal with his powers] [I want to see Lois as a mommy] After all Kids are the future .

The side-kick bit came in the review thread...I'll find the perpetrator. It's this kind o thinking that scares me.

Honestly, keep the kid in the backgorund and uninvolved and I'm cool...make him Super-Lad, and I'll puke.

CH, I actually think we're essentially on the same page, you are just more comfortable and trusting than I am...hopefully seeing the movie will change me in that area

 

[Superman79]

Soopahman! Soopahman! Cova yo haart!!

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm taking you up on that.Well here's one:

I'm always here buddy. I hate this crap that those of us who defend the baby are lumped together. I trust Singer, but I'm scared too...the flying off crap makes me want to find him and question him...thoroughly.

So, I don't have a problem with anyone who has fears...believe you and me.

The side-kick bit came in the review thread...I'll find the perpetrator. It's this kind o thinking that scares me.

Honestly, keep the kid in the backgorund and uninvolved and I'm cool...make him Super-Lad, and I'll puke.

CH, I actually think we're essentially on the same page, you are just more comfortable and trusting than I am...hopefully seeing the movie will change me in that area

LOL...yeah...there are some wierd ones here. I have tried to make my position clear while defending it on some level of realism. I support my position, but I know it's risky. I'm not asking everyone to accept it because I like it. That is why I know you and I are on the same page. I just want people to give the kid (a kid...actually for the Superman mythos) a chance before you just derail it because you think it's stupid and ignorant.

It does hold some weight for the story and for Superman, but if you don't want to see it you wont

 

[Superman79]

I'm always here buddy. I hate this crap that those of us who defend the baby are lumped together. I trust Singer, but I'm scared too...the flying off crap makes me want to find him and question him...thoroughly.

So, I don't have a problem with anyone who has fears...believe you and me.




LOL...yeah...there are some wierd ones here. I have tried to make my position clear while defending it on some level of realism. I support my position, but I know it's risky. I'm not asking everyone to accept it because I like it. That is why I know you and I are on the same page. I just want people to give the kid (and kid...acutually for the Superman mythos) a chance before you just derail it because you think it's stupid and ignorant.

It does hold some weight for the story and for Superman, but if you don't want to see it you wont

Oh I see it...but I'm also unsure if it will make the comics...not that it's bad, but that given the slight reboot from Crisis, and then the fact taht in 5-10 years they may want to do one of their periodic reboots, I just don't know if there'll be time...but who knows...I'll give the kid a chance...but I will be guarded about it...I still don't LIKE it...but that's not to say it won't grow. Like I said before...maybe it's jsut because e it seems too soon in the franchise.

I'm sorry if i made it seem we were too at odds, I just remember all too well what WB is capable of, so I worry. Your'e good people charl

BTW- 6 days til the Return!!!!

 

[Batman the 6th]

So the comic about Lois' 3 big words never came to pass yet? I thought they would be "Clark, I'm pregnant."

 

[Superman79]

So the comic about Lois' 3 big words never came to pass yet? I thought they would be "Clark, I'm pregnant."

I don' THINK it's out yet...I could be wrong...That and if that were the words we would have heard something by now (if the comic were out that is...)

 

[charl_huntress]

Oh I see it...but I'm also unsure if it will make the comics...not that it's bad, but that given the slight reboot from Crisis, and then the fact taht in 5-10 years they may want to do one of their periodic reboots, I just don't know if there'll be time...but who knows...I'll give the kid a chance...but I will be guarded about it...I still don't LIKE it...but that's not to say it won't grow. Like I said before...maybe it's jsut because e it seems too soon in the franchise.

I'm sorry if i made it seem we were too at odds, I just remember all too well what WB is capable of, so I worry. Your'e good people charl

BTW- 6 days til the Return!!!!

LOL...at one point I was positive it was going to happen, but I realize that DC is not trying to follow SR...not totally. I don't know who read #653 and didn't think SR, but that's here nor there.

Anyway, we aren't at odds. Contrary to belief, I'm not at odd with any naysayer because I've gone on public record saying what would make me hate the movie. I can't blame you guys for not liking certain aspects because if it was **** that bothered me I would hate it too...even if no one else did.

LOL...my next ultimatum...coming soon to the homepage is if Lois and Clark don't get together I will hate the next movie. I don't care how good it is cinematically...

I'm not even going to give it a chance...I really hope Singer is reading this

 

[The Kid]

Soopahman! Soopahman! Cova yo haart!!

someone at the planet compared him to the son of rocky balboa and it's a good comparison to me. He very well could never put on a pair of boxing gloves like his dad.
ya know, the garbage pail kid could just live a different life and not become superboy... it'll be cool to see how he takes the news that he's half god.

 

[The Caped Knight]

So the comic about Lois' 3 big words never came to pass yet? I thought they would be "Clark, I'm pregnant."

It's been delayed due to it being a huge spoiler for SUPERMAN RETURNS .

 

[charl_huntress]

Would have been cooler if they had a girl...

WAY COOLER...

She could be Super-Lois, and I'm sure you would love that

 

[fangrl06]

Would have been cooler if they had a girl...

WAY COOLER...

She could be Super-Lois, and I'm sure you would love that

We could see a Supergirl vs. Supergirl fight.