Reno Nevada Middle School Shooting

[Hobgoblin]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/justi...index.html?sr=fb102113middleschooshooting115p

Two dead, two in critical condition.

 

[Tanin]

I'm assuming it was a student but the news report doesn't say. I just hope they have him/her in custody and have nothing more to fear.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I guess there's going to be one of these every month now.

Why the increase in public shootings recently?

 

[Tanin]

I'm not so sure it is an increase I've always heard of them. It just seems now people care.

 

[NickNitro]

Is this going to be a monthly thing now? This is ridiculous

 

[Teelie]

It's going to be reported on a lot more in the national/international news so it will unfortunately have the double affect of "popularizing" them. This kind of thing usually has a negative wave of copycats and imitations that follow.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah I was just about to suggest it had something to do with media coverage.

Though I'm not sure why someone would copy this kind of thing.

Are people really that desperate for 15 minutes of fame?

Whatever happened to making prank videos on YouTube and hoping they go viral?

 

[NickNitro]

This statement may have never came from Freeman but has more truth in it than any big media source would admit to

"It’s because of the way the media reports it,” reads the fake statement attributed to Freeman. “Turn on the news and see how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single 'victim' of Columbine?" The controversial statement concludes, “So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or maternity ward next.”

"Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way.

"Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

 

[Morg]

was also a shooting at Vegas in the Bally's, 3 people were hit one die I heard

 

[Destructus86]

I guess there's going to be one of these every month now.

Why the increase in public shootings recently?

I recently read an article that said this isn't really that uncommon to have mass shootings like this spike every now and then. Assuming that's true we should see a decrease soon.

 

[Anita18]

This statement may have never came from Freeman but has more truth in it than any big media source would admit to

"It’s because of the way the media reports it,” reads the fake statement attributed to Freeman. “Turn on the news and see how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single 'victim' of Columbine?" The controversial statement concludes, “So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or maternity ward next.”

"Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way.

"Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."

I don't think it's as simple as that.

Yes, mass shooters are famous, but they are not "celebrities." People don't follow them as much as they follow say, Kim Kardashian. I think when people say they want to be famous, they yearn for Kardashian-level fame, where millions of people follow your every move. You can't do that when you're dead or in jail. You'd have to be a psychopath to think that that's the route you want, if your main objective is actually fame.

I think there are so many school shootings because

1. Parents don't know how or don't bother to keep guns away from minors. I'm not saying no kids should handle guns, I know it depends on the culture, but parents SHOULD KNOW when their kid is handling their gun!
2. Kids want an easy solution to their pain, and attacking their real or perceived tormentors is the most obvious way
3. Unfortunately, there's precedence. I'm not sure if blaming the media is the right thing to do, but when it's been done before, it's clearly a potential option. When kids are upset, they don't think. They go for what they know.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Anita, I regret to say that you are wrong on those counts of celebrityhood. I know a lot about Columbine, way more than anyone one person should actually. And in all of the places that I've went to I've found that they have groupies and fans who revile them as being heroes and absolutely admire them. So yeah, some kids do want to be like them. The oddest part of it is -- Eric and Dylan were scared a year before going through with it. They were actually going to back out of it, it wasn't until two weeks before that it really became real to them. Dylan was looking at colleges (he most likely had a bad experience which made him think it was high school 2.0), Eric was looking at the marines (most likely he was able to pick up on the tone of the voice of the recruiter and didn't call back because he knew what the outcome was going to be and wanted to spare himself the anguish - this is a kid who wanted be a soldier since he was 5 years old!). And they both were in tears during the basement tapes. "I have to turn my emotions off to go through with this," "I wish I was a sociopath so I didn't feel regret," "I'm sorry that I have to do this" -- all from Eric (the most violent of the two). It just had gotten to a point where they thought they had to go through with it. So even though they said 'yeah, this is the coolest!' in the end - they were clearly scared. But, yeah - kids do want to admire them as heroes. This is something really tricky I had to navigate around while writing a script about them to go on this year's black list -- if I made them out to be slightly like heroes to those groupies, there would be a hell of a lot of copy cats (just saying these two killed their tormentors and are now infamous makes it something to copycat to them). However, if I made them human and showed how this hurt them - then it could actually help to prevent kids who are serious about going down another path.

Eric and Dylan also weren't anything like the Joker killer or an older killer shooting up an elementary school. A lot of their tormentors may have graduated - but all their hate was already there in full for that school and what it represented to them. They had very specific people that they wanted to kill. Like Brandon, for example, who I guess was still in the school. Everyone else was, I hate to say this because I know how it will sound, collateral damage. The reason why they didn't get the people on their hit list: when they were shooting, they had turned their emotions off, they had to view it as a video game to get through it (Eric even made mention as seeing the students as monsters in Doom). They allowed their emotions, ironically, to completely take over - they were on auto-pilot at that point. So, Columbine was seriously fueled by getting back at those who tormented them and revenge. Brooks Brown and his father (who HATED Eric) even testify to this being the case - the "it was a beautiful school, they were popular, they weren't tormented" comes from David Cullen who absolutely no one should listen to - he was a reporter who knew absolutely no one, he wasn't there from the beginning like he claims, and those who have went through it (even the parents of some of the victims!!!) have spoken out against Cullen - they even mention that there was obvious bullying. So the only times where it can be 'like Columbine' are where they're shooting up their peers - not strangers and those younger than them, that's just plain thrill killing or wanting to do it just to have fun and nothing else tied to it; in other words more like the two friends in the 1950s who killed their cousin just to see if they could pull off the perfect murder.

ADDING:
1. Eric and Dylan didn't get the guns from their parents - they tricked those eighteen and older to buy their guns.
2.
3. The media is only a small aspect of it. It's not the complete and total picture. You can't just point your finger at one thing. It's more complicated than that. This was a 'Frankenstein' story of the monster society as a whole created.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think it's as simple as that.

Yes, mass shooters are famous, but they are not "celebrities." People don't follow them as much as they follow say, Kim Kardashian. I think when people say they want to be famous, they yearn for Kardashian-level fame, where millions of people follow your every move. You can't do that when you're dead or in jail. You'd have to be a psychopath to think that that's the route you want, if your main objective is actually fame.

I think there are so many school shootings because

1. Parents don't know how or don't bother to keep guns away from minors. I'm not saying no kids should handle guns, I know it depends on the culture, but parents SHOULD KNOW when their kid is handling their gun!
2. Kids want an easy solution to their pain, and attacking their real or perceived tormentors is the most obvious way
3. Unfortunately, there's precedence. I'm not sure if blaming the media is the right thing to do, but when it's been done before, it's clearly a potential option. When kids are upset, they don't think. They go for what they know.

A somewhat reasonable person would make a distinction between Kim Kardashian fame and mass shooter notoriety but these people are far beyond reason.

I think killing your worst enemy, having the world recognize your grievance before going out in a blaze is dream scenario for someone who's been treated like trash their whole life.

 

[Anita18]

A somewhat reasonable person would make a distinction between Kim Kardashian fame and mass shooter notoriety but these people are far beyond reason.

I think killing your worst enemy, having the world recognize your grievance before going out in a blaze is dream scenario for someone who's been treated like trash their whole life.

I know that people with such rationale are rare, but saying that they are victims of bullying who want to be famous makes it seem like it's a common way of thinking.

And when you consider that "their whole life" up to that point is often less than 20 years, it only makes them seem more pathetic. They aren't sold into the sex trade as children. They aren't child soldiers or refugees. Mass shootings by minors seems to be a first world problem. Those kids concoct scenarios where their life is the most terrible thing on the face of the planet, when all they're being is immature teens taken to a whole other level. They forget that they have options 90% of children in the world don't have.

My cousin was physically bullied in high school. He ate lunch in the bathroom so he wouldn't be tormented. He's getting his revenge by living well - went to a great uni with fellow nerds, made awesome friends, had to choose between medicine and Wall St for his next move, and now he's happily married too. He acknowledged he had options, and that he could make choices for his future that would leave high school far behind.

For whatever reason, that doesn't occur to kids who shoot other kids.

 

[Ultimatehero]

It's not a common way of thinking. But, I highly suggest you go to sites about Columbine. You will find that they have groupies and fans who revile them and admire them and want to be like them. The Virginia Tech guy is one such example.

Because on top of everything they have mental problems which were never properly handled. I'm not saying their mental illnesses made them do it - but, it is one of the aspects that separates them from your cousin. Dylan had chronic depression for example (he attempted to commit suicide at least two to three times - that we know of from his journal) and Eric was diagnosed as having a strand of depression and was put on medication for it toward the end of his life.

 

[Anita18]

I'm not surprised that the Columbine shooters have fans - even serial killers have pen pals. But they are not mainstream celebrities, on the tip of everyone's tongue every day.

 

[Ultimatehero]

It's all a matter of perception. Somebody doesn't need to be on everyone's tongues every day. And Kim Kardashian doesn't even register in my mind. Activists, directors, actors, and screenwriters are - but that's my sphere of perception. To them they are "godly" - they've had documentaries, they've had books, their names were plastered everywhere on the news, and they might even get a movie soon. Some became infamous, others vanished with time. But at least it's some attention that they never got before. Part of the motivation for Eric and Dylan was even wanting to be famous - they were talking about who they wanted to direct the movie about them. So, part of it was "you never paid attention to me in life, you're sure paying attention now!"

 

[rebel-master]

At least Eric had a friend, Dylan. Eric did well in school, too, from what can be read of the transcripts. He had a friend. Some don't even have a single friend.

 

[Anita18]

It's all a matter of perception. Somebody doesn't need to be on everyone's tongues every day. And Kim Kardashian doesn't even register in my mind. Activists, directors, actors, and screenwriters are - but that's my sphere of perception. To them they are "godly" - they've had documentaries, they've had books, their names were plastered everywhere on the news, and they might even get a movie soon. Some became infamous, others vanished with time. But at least it's some attention that they never got before. Part of the motivation for Eric and Dylan was even wanting to be famous - they were talking about who they wanted to direct the movie about them. So, part of it was "you never paid attention to me in life, you're sure paying attention now!"

For all the good that did them.

 

[Ultimatehero]

At least Eric had a friend, Dylan. Eric did well in school, too, from what can be read of the transcripts. He had a friend. Some don't even have a single friend.

Eric had one friend. Dylan had about three friends.

For all the good that did them.

Nobody are saying what they did was right. Hell, in my script I made sure to even show that it didn't do them any good. Those who follow them disregard that towards the end they were sad that they were going through with it to the point of CRYING on camera but felt like they had no other way out. That's the part that if brought into clearer focus would cause those wanting to do it to start to question it seeing clearly the negative effects it will have on them. It had gotten so big that it was inevitably going to explode in their minds. If you mean being infamous - we're still talking about them more than ten years later and they weren't the first ones in the news either. There were three to two in the news directly before them.

 

[rebel-master]

Eric had one friend. Dylan had about three friends.

And one is more than zero. Better than none.

 

[Ultimatehero]

And one is more than zero. Better than none.

Again you are thinking about this from the perspective of somebody who doesn't have the same mental illness that they did. Entirely different matters entirely. You weren't in their school, you do not have the same exact disorder, you don't have their parents, you don't have all of the same influences. You can not look at it from a rational point of view. From a more common and sane point of view - they were, of course, wrong. In their own perceptions, they perceived what they did was right and from the perception of their fans and groupies what they did was heroic, noble, and deserves to be copied. Once again, these are NOT sane points of view.

Basically you're looking at a mentally ******ed kid and saying, he's like me except for this, why isn't he smart?

A kid is shoved against a locker. One kid brings a gun to school (Eric). The other goes home and cries (Dylan). The other reports it. The other does nothing.

 

[Epsilon]

The partisan crazies are already at each-other's throats on the comment threads on CNN and other websites. Anyway, it's sad. So many shootings lately.

 

[Ultimatehero]

The partisan crazies are already at each-other's throats on the comment threads on CNN and other websites. Anyway, it's sad. So many shootings lately.

I know it's wrong to say this, but for some reason I didn't hear this before now (that it's starting back up again? Between 1998 and 2000 there were a spree of school shootings that did seem like one happened every month) and while I'm sad that it's happening - I am glad that I wrote this when I did, because in my naive hopes and dreams it might be able to make some difference.

 

[rebel-master]

Again you are thinking about this from the perspective of somebody who doesn't have the same mental illness that they did. Entirely different matters entirely. You weren't in their school, you do not have the same exact disorder, you don't have their parents, you don't have all of the same influences. You can not look at it from a rational point of view. From a more common and sane point of view - they were, of course, wrong. In their own perceptions, they perceived what they did was right and from the perception of their fans and groupies what they did was heroic, noble, and deserves to be copied. Once again, these are NOT sane points of view.

Basically you're looking at a mentally ******ed kid and saying, he's like me except for this, why isn't he smart?

A kid is shoved against a locker. One kid brings a gun to school. The other goes home and cries. The other reports it. The other does nothing.

You're not gonna make an ordeal about this, are you?