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Comics Resolution!

Silverstein

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I loved MJ. I loved MJ and Peter. It was perfect, it was fitting, it had years of development and fan approval. It was just awesome. Now, it's gone because Joey didn't like it.

Well, I thought of a solution that not only works with the storyline and characters(unlike Joe's move), but would create and interesting dynamic to pull in readers.


Solution?

Clone Saga 2!!


So Peter's swinging around, Mary Jane-less as he does these days, when he sees a guy who look like him, but with black spikey hair and his Spider-sense goes off like crazy. He thinks the guy is a villain, yet a woman with red hair appears and his spider-sense finally stops. He shrugs and moves on.

Same thing happens a week later, the same people. The woman looks very familiar to him. He believes it's too risky to just go talk to them so he moves on.

When it happens a third time, he appears and the guy runs into an alley. Peter chases and the guy screams "Leave me alone, I gave you my life. I gave my life for you. What more do you want? You even had her." Peter is confused. The guy is fast enough to punch Peter in the face without his spider-sense detecting it. When Peter looks up, the guy is gone.


A month or so later, Peter finds that weird hair is growing on his back. The hair isn't human, it's spider-like. He goes to Doc Connors or Reed Richards, and they tell him that it's odd that his body has been mutating so much in the last few years. On average the radioactive changes to his body would have already become standard to his system. It's almost as if he was reaching some kind of "mutant puberty". Peter laughs nervously and claims that no one understands, and swings away.


He finds the guy again and a huge fight occurs and it turns out that Peter Parker. The Peter that we have been reading about since the clone saga, was the clone ALL along!! When "Ben Reily" jumped in front of the Green Goblin's glider to save "Peter" and turned to dust, it was actually a plan to kill the REAL Peter Parker. The Peter we have been following is the clone, and Clone's DNA is unstable.

"The Other" saga and subsequent mutations were because Clone can't handle his own biological system. See, Peter Parker was normal and then got bitten...He had time to grow into the radioactive DNA. Clone was born with it and so the changes are from the body trying to figure out what it really is.


Meanwhile, the "dust" that was 'Reily' was collected by Green Goblin at around the time that Gwen's children had appeared to attack "Peter" as the Grey Goblins. The truth is, they weren't actually children of Gwen. They were clones of her using her DNA. The Goblin had dug up her corpse and planned on sending her clone and a clone of the REAL Peter, to attack Clone. Norman had to use some of his own blood to create the children, because a catalyst was needed with living tissue. That's where he came up with the idea to play a psychological game and claim that she cheated on him in Europe. Osborn then set up a bunch of clues to further drive Clone insane.


See, Osborn's goal here was to kill Peter (by turning him into dust, which he did), and then drive Clone insane by ruining his life and speeding up his mutation process. The reason Osborn seemingly has gone clean and is working with the good guys, is because his analytical data shows that Clone is going to die soon. In his mind, Osborn won.


However, Mary Jane had whispered something to Mephisto, if you all remember? What she had requested was not what people think. She actually had asked for "Ben Reily" to be alive again, so that way there is at least one Peter in the world who loves her and will remember her. Mephisto agreed. So, during Brand New Day...on the other side of New York, the dust exploded out of it's jar and turned into Peter. The real Peter. And Mephisto granted him the knowledge of everything that has happened so far. Not as an act of kindness, but because it was further the drama and chaos.



Back to the present...Clone is awestruck. He doesn't believe Peter and says that he doesn't have any lost memories and remembers everything. Clone swings away in confusion and fear. Peter dons a sweet update of the Scarlet Spider outfit and swings after Clone.

They have a long talk about Mary Jane Watson-Parker, and Peter explains that they are both Peter Parker, and they both loved Mary Jane. So when he made the deal to save Aunt May, he really did give up his love and so the deal really went through. But Mephisto's mistake was in the fact that you can't stop true love.


So from now on we'd have an ongoing series with Peter "Scarlet Spidey, married (AGAIN), to Mary Jane" Parker and Ben "Single and rooming with Harry, the Spider-Man that we've been following in comics the last couple of years, that Joe Q has a hard on for" Reily.....Making fans of single spidey and fans of married spidey happy.
 
I loved MJ. I loved MJ and Peter. It was perfect, it was fitting, it had years of development and fan approval. It was just awesome. Now, it's gone because Joey didn't like it.

You had me until your last statement....

It's gone because Marvel Comics Inc., the owner of the character "Spider-Man", did not like the marriage and wanted it gone...

Both MJ and Peter are great characters, and there have been good stories with them as a couple... however, comic books tend to change rather than sit on the fence, and as even one poster who recently mentions this is the fact that even when they got married in 1987, it was hard to imagine it lasting forever, because the success of Spider-Man is usually built on the foundation of tragedy... and while OMD sucked (as far as a story goes), it's hardly surprising that it happened... a tale of such epic proportions was in the making for the last 15 years... hence, the original Clone Saga.

Just my two cents...

:yay:
 
iloveclones loves clones. So I would definately go for the return of Ben. But I doubt introducing further controversy into this is the way to go.
 
I still say have Peter wake up one day to find MJ in the shower and realize that the last 30 or so issues were all a dream.
 
Maybe this all will fall apart because Mephisto was a CLONE?

Or the real Peter never made a deal, and it was Ben and his clones wife and the real PEte and MJ will dramatically return, having never known about any of this stuff that has happened?
 
Maybe this all will fall apart because Mephisto was a CLONE?

Or the real Peter never made a deal, and it was Ben and his clones wife and the real PEte and MJ will dramatically return, having never known about any of this stuff that has happened?


Did you even read my post?
 
Yes i did actually...i would like it kept VERY SIMPLE tho...since the original clone saga stretched on for eons and years...lol..
 
I'd like to see Ben Reilly return, but the rest of that sounds like a bad idea.
 
Not saying it's not, but "why"? Could you explain a little more of your opinion?
 
The whole "the guy we've been reading about has been the clone" angle has already been played once before, with disastrous results. In my opinion, that's exactly where Marvel went wrong with the Clone Saga. Making Ben the real Peter. Sure, it was a gutsy move for Marvel, but there was no way it was going to sit well with most fans.
Not to mention writers didn't like it, either. The main reason Jurgens left Sensational was because he wanted to write Peter Parker, not Ben Reilly.
 
Not to mention writers didn't like it, either. The main reason Jurgens left Sensational was because he wanted to write Peter Parker, not Ben Reilly.

The main reason Jurgens left was because Marvel was changing its mind with the "start fresh" with a new single Spider-Man; ie Ben Reilly, who is the REAL Peter Parker...
 
"Solution? Clone Saga 2!"

:funny:

Sorry man, that's never happening. Ever.
 
I really think that Marvel has set themselves up with enough fails, to make use of it all and fix EVERY problem at once.

Controversial Topics:
-Clone Saga
-The Other
-Brand New Day/One More Day
-Gwen's "children"
-Peter increasingly doing less "Spider-Man" esque things. Like showing his face during Civil War..
..Which was ******** because the character had been hammered into the "not showing his face" aspect to vigilante-ism. Not only would showing it break 40+ years of character development and cause the kind of complications that lead up to Brand New Day, BUT the purpose of the speech was to have others join Ironman's side. This could have been done without him showing his face to a world filled with enemies and villains. Registering didn't mean you had to "literally" remove your mask. How could it? Iron Man was the fore runner and he wears a SUIT of armor!!

All of these things could be used to write one great story that fixes it all.

My above idea makes use of the clone saga and rids us of any dreaded feelings about it, because now it would all make sense and be of USE to the mythos. We'd use civil war and BND, The Other, Gwen's goblin children, and it would even make use of why Peter doesn't really seem like "Spider-Man" so much anymore. It's because he's not. He'd be a clone.

So I'm not saying that have to only follow my direct concept above, but something like that would work towards not only telling a good story, but staying true to the character and making the stories we WANT to read.

I literally ONLY buy USM now. A lot of people claimed to be doing the same when OMD was announced, but those people still seem to be giving Marvel cash.
 
"Solution? Clone Saga 2!"

:funny:

Sorry man, that's never happening. Ever.

Right. That's laughable and unrealistic but Joe Q cosplaying as Satan, and taking away the marriage of a 20-year fan favorite couple for the sake of his own fanboyism...is what? Like normal?

Now I'm laughing.
 
The main reason Jurgens left was because Marvel was changing its mind with the "start fresh" with a new single Spider-Man; ie Ben Reilly, who is the REAL Peter Parker...


No, it's because he disagreed about who Spider-Man should be. Marvel at the time was pushing for Ben Reilly to be the one and only, Jurgens wanted Peter back.



Dan : When I was hired, I knew Marvel was in the midst of the Clone Saga. Even then, there were those who wanted to do all Ben Reilly stories or all Peter Parker stories. I did think that having two Spider-Man characters was a cop-out, as was the notion of Ben Reilly. I wanted to move to Peter Parker as the one, true Spider-Man as fast as possible. More than anything, I wanted to do stories that touched on classic Spider-Man themes. That was impossible under that time's editorial and character situation. To this day, I feel as though I've never really done Spider-Man.
 
Right. That's laughable and unrealistic but Joe Q cosplaying as Satan, and taking away the marriage of a 20-year fan favorite couple for the sake of his own fanboyism...is what? Like normal?

Now I'm laughing.

Yes, it is laughable and unrealistic. The Clone Saga was one of the biggest embarrassments Marvel has ever suffered, and was a financial and creative disaster. It also represents Marvel's worst era as a company, when marketing execs were running rampant and editorial was completely breaking down. To even reference that story in a serious manner, as you're suggesting, would be a disaster in of itself. Think about it: retconning a retcon with obscure story elements from over a decade ago. If you were in Quesada's position, does that sound like something you'd give the greenlight?

Now, the Clone Saga exists only as a cautionary tale and the butt of jokes. There will never be a "Clone Saga 2," especially now that so much time has passed. There are more feasible ways to retcon OMD.
 
I literally ONLY buy USM now. A lot of people claimed to be doing the same when OMD was announced, but those people still seem to be giving Marvel cash.

But... if your buying USM, you're giving Marvel cash as well...

:huh: :huh: :huh:
 
No, it's because he disagreed about who Spider-Man should be. Marvel at the time was pushing for Ben Reilly to be the one and only, Jurgens wanted Peter back.

Right.... don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia... if you've got a more reliable source, then please post a link...

Jurgens came on board with Sensational right when Ben Reilly was hitting his stride as the "new" Spider-Man... if he wanted to wait to write about Peter Parker, all hehad to do was wait another 5 months, because when he left with issue #6, by issue #11 "Revelations" was in the works and Peter was re-established as the "main" guy at that point.

I know that there was a LOT of back'n forth during the Clone Saga, but a LOT of that was prior to Jurgens even coming on board, and I remember at the time, when Jurgens left, he left because he was in disagreement of the direction of the character, but HE CAME ON BOARD as the guy to create a NEW SUPPORTING CAST for Ben Reilly... why would he do that in the first place if he was uninterested in writing about Ben Reilly? And then once he's gone (as writer/artist), Marvel quickly drops all the people he introduced and killed Ben and brought back Peter in the suit within 6 months... Don't you think if he REALLY wanted to write about Peter Parker, he could have waited it out? Remember... a certain amount of time goes by between writing & publishing, so at worst, maybe 2 or 3 months was between when he decided to leave, and when they started to plan the return of Peter... your theory seems to unbelievable to me...

:yay:
 
But... if your buying USM, you're giving Marvel cash as well...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

I actually was typing with one hand, and realized my mistake, but I didn't edit it. So I understand how you'd be confused.

I literally ONLY buy USM now. A lot of people claimed to be doing the same when OMD was announced, but a lot of those people still seem to be giving Marvel cash towards 616 and other endeavors that seem like marketing ploys..

Not trying to be sarcastic or offensive or anything, but it's not that much of a change, could you really not realize that's what I meant or were you just clarifying?
 
Yes, it is laughable and unrealistic. The Clone Saga was one of the biggest embarrassments Marvel has ever suffered, and was a financial and creative disaster. It also represents Marvel's worst era as a company, when marketing execs were running rampant and editorial was completely breaking down. To even reference that story in a serious manner, as you're suggesting, would be a disaster in of itself. Think about it: retconning a retcon with obscure story elements from over a decade ago. If you were in Quesada's position, does that sound like something you'd give the greenlight?

Now, the Clone Saga exists only as a cautionary tale and the butt of jokes. There will never be a "Clone Saga 2," especially now that so much time has passed. There are more feasible ways to retcon OMD.


It seems you're blending your personal opinions with what actually happened. The Clone Saga in USM garnered even MORE attention to the books and was a well written and highly entertaining arc. I have not even heard otherwise on that.

Clone Saga lasted for several years, and Spider-Man was actually doing pretty well during some of them. There are also many parts of the clone saga then are generally and universally accepted like Ben Reily's existence, which was referenced post-Civil War when Pete took up the name. Even modern video games tend to include the Scarlet Spider costume, when given the option for alternate costumes.


You speak as if you read that one line and are posting soley under that premise rather than reading or discussing the whole. Mentioning the clone war would not be a financial problem nor would it be even close to how absurd you're making it sound. If you actually read my post, I didn't discuss redoing it or anything like what you're making it sound like I said.

You may personally hate the clone saga, but it's not the end of all comics or the worst story ever written. There were many decisions that went through and many controversial events that made fans and critics complain, but that is no different than BND or any other controversial storyline. The only difference is that it's longer. You can break up the Clone Saga into various Arcs and many of them did okay.


When you talk about numbers, you seem to be ignoring how there was a decline in comics overall during and around that time period.

So my previous point remains valid, this premise is no stranger than what Joe Q did in BND. Or some of the stuff that JMS did.


"If you were in Quesada's position, does that sound like something you'd give the greenlight?"

Yes. Accept, I'd send away whatever characters that I personally don't like, and try to make everything as much to my own vision as possible. Without thinking about what's right for the characters or what would make a good corrective story.
 
Not trying to be sarcastic or offensive or anything, but it's not that much of a change, could you really not realize that's what I meant or were you just clarifying?

Just clarifying... thanks.

:yay:
 
It seems you're blending your personal opinions with what actually happened.

Have you ever read the Life of Reilly columns?

Look it up. It's a long read, but an enlightening one. It'll tell you exactly how much of a disaster, on every level, the Clone Saga was and why Marvel will never return to that era in any way, shape, or form.

"If you were in Quesada's position, does that sound like something you'd give the greenlight?"

Yes. Accept, I'd send away whatever characters that I personally don't like, and try to make everything as much to my own vision as possible. Without thinking about what's right for the characters or what would make a good corrective story.

If you were in his position, not if you were Quesada himself, smartass. Be reasonable. Using one terrible, joke of a story--and an old one at that--to retcon another terrible, joke of a story is hardly a good way to run one of your flagship titles.
 
Clone Saga was a disaster on every level?

Now that is a bit of a stretch. I've read those columns and a portion of that discusses how great the storytelling was at the start of the Clone Saga back in 90's. It had readers anxiously awaiting what was going to happen next. Everything went to hell when Marvel began milking it to death, but the story wasn't a "disaster" on every level. If anything those columns are a great read for any fans of the saga, as well as any haters.
 
Clone Saga was a disaster on every level?

Now that is a bit of a stretch. I've read those columns and a portion of that discusses how great the storytelling was at the start of the Clone Saga back in 90's. It had readers anxiously awaiting what was going to happen next. Everything went to hell when Marvel began milking it to death, but the story wasn't a "disaster" on every level. If anything those columns are a great read for any fans of the saga, as well as any haters.

You mean like how Peter's parents turned out to be EVIL ROBOTS?! :whatever:

Yeah, that's some great storytelling.
 
You mean like how Peter's parents turned out to be EVIL ROBOTS?! :whatever:

Yeah, that's some great storytelling.

Once again...You stated that the article said that the Clone Saga was a complete disaster. Like I said, that's a stretch. The article pretty much said that the Clone saga started out great and had some great ideas but Marvel tried to Milk it and then it just ran WAY too long for its own good. Peter's parents turning into "robots" wasn't the start of the Clone Saga. The 90's clone saga pretty much kicked off when Peter and Ben meet on top of the hospital roof top.
 

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