Wouldn't It Be Great If...

Discussion in 'The Comics' started by Dan Ketch, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. Dan Ketch Registered

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    The last 10 years of Spidey continuity was actually a clone and Peter actually did move to Oregon and Marvel was gonna pull the big reveal later this year saying to celebrate the 10th Anniversary of the Clone Saga Peter was gonna return to the Spidey outfit and do it right with no stingers, organic webshooters, Iron Spidey costume, no return of Uncle Ben, no totemistic spider gods, no Goblin Twins and Gwen with Norman Osbourn was somehow a nightmare created by the clone's degenerative process and Spidey wouldnt be revealing his secret identity during Civil War the clone would be revealing that he was actually Ben Reilly...hmmm, that would be great!! A guy can dream though right...:spidey:
     
  2. WOLVERINE25TH The Best There Is

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    No 'cause then that demeans Ben, who will always be more awesome than Peter...whether people choose to admit it or not.
     
  3. Man-Thing Registered

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    I say they should just breakout with the character of nightmare to fix this mess. Either that or they could just let Banner destroy the entire planet after Hulk Planet, inwhich they could later ultimize the entire universe.:up:
     
  4. Cyclops Registered

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    You know what? No. No more copouts. No more dodging the bullet.

    The only way to fix the mess that is Spider-Man currently is to just face facts, admit that they've taken too many liberties with him, and figure out a reasonable way to fix it that wouldn't bring about even more convolution and messy clone stuff.
     
  5. MaxCarnage Iron-Free

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    The whole 616 universe should be evaporated in a cosmic burst of gamma radiation.
     
  6. Dangerous Registered

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    Don think I'd like that one..
     
  7. Mara Jane Registered

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    Did they clone MJ, too?
     
  8. shinlyle King of the Haters

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    *tries to muffle laughter*
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
     
  9. shinlyle King of the Haters

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    Amen!

    I think, seeing as how they ducked continuity time and again to end up where they are, they should have to use continuity and work within it to bail their asses out of this mess.
     
  10. dan1 Registered

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    ah ah ah...Ben would have to have those stupid (always there)stingers and totemistic origin too. Lest we not forget :)
     
  11. wolvie2020 Registered

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    Damn straight bruv. It'd be great if more people had that attitude

    This way, a new writer, (hint hint, Loeb, hint,) couold get a clean start, and just tell great Spider-Man stories without all this extra crap

    I really liked the way in one quick, (and actually really fun to read,) Hulk arc by PAD, he set it up so that many of the weirder, (not so good,) parts pf Hulk continuity in the last few years, now could be completely erased!

    And best of all, he didn't leave too many finalised points, and it didn't take away from the stories just gone by. He just set it up as a clean slate, and bits of bad continuity could be taken out, yet, the Hulks actual actions, and passion in those given situations still remain

    Something like that needs to happen with Spidey, seriously
     
  12. SpideyInATree Chillin' Like a Villain

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    Would It Be Great If....

    Ben Reilly really did replace Peter Parker. And Peter Parker really were the clone. And Aunt May would have stayed dead. ASM # 400 wouldn't have been made a mockery of. Peter Parker, the clone, would have moved to Oregon with his hot supermodel, but nagging wife with their beautiful baby girl, May. Peter would make occassional appearances to help Ben with some of the past villains that he hasn't handled. Ben Reilly would make a life for himself, take back his life as Spider-Man, and he has his entire life in front of him.

    All of those pesky retcons that have convulted the Spider-Man mythos would have never happened. Baby May would be alive and well. Peter and Mary Jane could finally be truly happy together without Spider-Man to interfere in their lives. The story of Spider-Man goes on with practically the same exact person with the same exact powers and, for the most part, the same memories...feelings...ideas...emotions...love for passed loved ones. Ben Reilly would always be fighting as Spider-Man for the same reason that Peter did...because with Great Power comes Great Responsibility.

    There would have been no return of Norman Osborn. Therefore, no Sins Past.

    Sounds to me like the Spidey books would have been better off with Ben Reilly. :o
     
  13. Dan Ketch Registered

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    That really wouldnt be that bad....
     
  14. SpideyInATree Chillin' Like a Villain

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    Well, that was Marvel's original plan. To replace Ben Reilly, the real Peter Parker, with Peter, the clone who has been posing as the real deal. Fans were outraged. Marvel changed it's plans. And we have what we have now. :o
     
  15. Galactus Devourer of Worlds

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    That made my head spinning... ;)
     
  16. Rez Registered

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    It's like Regis always said... the first impulse is the right one!

    And the first one was to have Ben stay permanant.

    Damn, how I miss Benji.
     
  17. Geko Registered

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    Hang on now...
    What makes you think that even if the had let Ben remain as Spider-Man, (which just to ring in, I'm not a fan of... One of the things that has always made Spider-Man special is that it is as much about the Man behind the mask as it is about the Hero. Being Spider-Man isn't like being a Green Lantern, being Spider-Man is being Peter Parker. ... But I digress)
    *Ahem.* Even if they had left Ben as Spider-Man, what makes you think the current creative team wouldn't have taken him to the exact same place they've taken Peter???
    They could still bring back Norman
    They could still defile the memory of Gwen
    and they could still give Ben Spider-God, wannabe-Wolverine Stingers that inexplicably need to be managed by the Spider-Armor V2.1
     
  18. Citizen_Kaine Registered

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    Ben had potential, lots of openings and different roads that could have been taken. Trust me, Marvel would have had a lot better idea's and possibilities with Ben that didn't involve Gwen, Spider Religon, and most of the bull**** we deal with today
     
  19. Geko Registered

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    If Ben had remained as the definitive "real" Spider-Man, then all that rich Spider-History would have been his. So how long before he tried to somehow re-establish those relationships?
    Peter has as much potential as Ben did. The problem lies in the lack of creativity of the writers. And the biggest example of that lack of creativity is when they thought the only way to revitalize the series was to ditch the lead character!
     
  20. SpideyInATree Chillin' Like a Villain

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    But they didn't ditch the lead character. The guy who was doing the replacing is an exact replica. In fact, the guy who he was replacing was REALLY the exact replica and Ben was the real deal. Peter Parker IS Ben Reilly. Ben Reilly IS Peter Parker. They were clones and the same exact person when it all came down to it.

    Basically, they were replacing Peter Parker with Peter Parker.

    And no, you wouldn't have had the same storylines if Ben Reilly had stayed Spider-Man. Ben Reilly added a lot of new energy to the Spidey books and they could have done a lot of interesting things off of that. If you keep Ben Reilly, you are also keeping Kaine around as well. There goes a big rivalry right there.

    They had a nice plan worked out when Ben was actually Spider-Man. Ben would begin slowly taking his life back. He was dating that Jessica woman who was really the daughter of the burglar who killed Uncle Ben. He worked at the Daily Grind. Plenty of new supporting cast. Mysterio got sweet upgrades. And then...Marvel changed their mind. :(
     
  21. ScarletSpider Registered

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    I love Ben Reilly (go figure), I was introduced to Spidey comics the very issue he returned believe it or not, but it was a ridiculous idea to ever try and make him the new Spider-Man, pushing Peter and the suporting cast aside so it'd be 'fresh'. How did they ever think the fan base, the people who love and identify with Peter would feel that all these years he was just an imposter.

    Ben may have been a clone of Peter, they mayhave had the same view of being a hero and the whole responsobility thing, but they were also very different. They even cut and died his hair radically changing his appearence, so it wasn't as if they were replacing Peter Parker with Peter Parker. Ben Reilly is NOT Peter Parker, Peter Parker is NOT Ben Reilly.

    Ben as the Scarlet Spider rocked, Kaine was an awesome villain who actually seemed a genuine scary threat, ASM#400 is arguably the greatest issue of Spider-Man ever... and I agree Mysterio became pretty cooler. But the convulted mess it became.. jesus.

    In my opinion, Ben should of stayed the Scarlet Spider, but eventually would of been slain in a near identical way as he was in the books, just with no Norman returning for god's sake. I don't mind other people taking up the Goblin mantle, in a way it was like Norman was haunting Pete from beyond the grave, hell I wouldn't really of been bothered if Harry returned instead.

    But even if Ben had really been the real Peter Parker, we'd still have the same mess we have now. Why would they not have gone the way of the spider-totem, Gwen and Norman boning and the bone claw poker crap way?

    I stilll can't believe they brought back Aunt May, that's one thing I wish they would retcon... retcon a retcon, that's when you know things have really turned to crap.

    I'm praying that some day soon they put telling good stories ahead of collosal events, I groan each time I hear "and their life will never be the same" and "which will send shockwaves through the entire Marvel Universe for years to come" now.

    Astonishing has restored my faith in X-Men, hopefully they could get someone like Whedon on Spidey, or Whedon himself. I think he'd nail Spidey's sense of humour.
     
  22. Geko Registered

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    Thanks for the support ScarletSpider

    Ben ISN'T Peter, and Peter ISN'T Ben. At best they were twin brothers. And yes they did try to ditch the lead character... unless of course you want to argue that they planned the second clone saga at the same time they created the first one. Of course not. And really you've made my point, the only way the writers could think of to freshen the series was to ditch everything and start with a clean slate.
    I liked Ben as a character too, and would have loved to see him stay as Scarlet Spider. He could have moved to California and been the West Coast Spidey! However, instead of taking all these new characters and using them to enrichen the character, Marvel took nearly every Spidey comic I'd read, every cartoon I'd seen and every adventure I'd created with my Mego Spider-Man figures (and the SWAT figure I'd converted into a Peter Parker figure) and said HA! Not real!! His hair bleaching twin brother is the real deal. Start loving and identifying with him...NOW!:confused:
     
  23. Rez Registered

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    I totally understand that view.

    I also feel it would have been best if they were both kept alive. My favourite times were when they worked as brothers, playing off one another- appearing in all the books together.

    However, that wasn't the plan. The plan was to get rid of Peter and have Ben take back what was his.

    A flawed plan? Maybe. There was obviously going to be some backlash.
    But as a result of this backlash, they panicked. They threw out their whole plan, over what? Divisions in the offices? A lunch date between Jurgens and the Editor? (Should be noted that the "drop in readers" and "fan backlash" often sighted as causing Marvel to make the switch is bs; the decision to flip flop was made before Peter left- they just didn't have the time to throw out all the books already completed or underway)

    Arguably, many of the problems we have today would have been avoided if they stuck to the original plan.
    Look what SpideyinaTree said:
    " They had a nice plan worked out when Ben was actually Spider-Man. Ben would begin slowly taking his life back. He was dating that Jessica woman who was really the daughter of the burglar who killed Uncle Ben. He worked at the Daily Grind. Plenty of new supporting cast. Mysterio got sweet upgrades. And then...Marvel changed their mind. "

    That sounds pretty damn good to me. And you know that Peter and MJ wouldn't be gone forever. But when they appeared, it could have been something special. The scene stealers of the book. The Mentor. The Brother. The Legend.
    And Jameson and the Bugle cast, they would have still turned up. Granted, half the interaction was due to PETER working at the Bugle. But the other half was how much hatred JJJ has for Spiderman. He IS a villian! They wouldn't ditch that aspect of the book just because Peter no longer worked there.
    And look what WOULD have, ABSOLUTELY Been avoided. Revelations.
    No return of the Green Goblin. Without the flip flop there is no need for a mastermind reveal because everything has already been resolved.
    Don't get me wrong, I kind of like him as the grand mastermind. It worked then, ONCE. But without him back, we wouldn't have had Sins Past. Without him being the mastermind ONCE, we wouldn't have had to deal with every writer afterwards going "ahh MASTERMIND AGAIN!"
    Most importantly, we wouldn't have had the Gathering of the 5, the reboot, and the horrid retcon of ASM 400 and May's death. All of those are almost directly because of the decision to cancel out and try and forget about the Clone Saga.

    Now, does it mean we wouldn't have The Other? Or some other bad stories? Of course not. But, it DOES avoid some of the HUGE missteps mentioned above. It DOES open TONS of new doors with Ben's supporting cast. And it DOESN'T close all the doors with Peter "gone."
     
  24. Herr Logan Registered

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    I'm in favor of chalking all that bull$hit up to Mysterio (the real one, that is, who wouldn't be dead even if 'Guardian Devil' had actually happened, because anyone who thinks a master illusionist can't fake his death in front of Daredevil is an idiot child) enhancing his shenanigans with the Cosmic Cube or something like that, creating a completely false ten years of Marvel History.

    :wolverine
     
  25. Abaddon Watching

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    Maybe it'd be easier if it was revealed that someone had been guiding Wanda's ripples and bending reality for the past few years affecting many events and characters.This would end up causing an alternate reality to bleed into 616.


    Or maybe that sounds too much like Crisis.:o
     

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