Returns and Revitalizations

[Raiden]

I will see Jean Grey, Jan Pym, and Cable return from the dead.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'd made a mention of it elsewhere and thought I'd put it in here.

I'd like to see Sleepwalker written by Jason Aaron and drawn by David Mack.

No idea for plot though.

 

[Dread]

Wow, I'd forgotten about Namorita and Robbie. Namorita returning with Darkhawk would be a great fit, though I feel the team is getting too big at that point.

Darkhawk
Namorita
Night Thrasher II
Justice
Firestar
Speedball
Rage
Nova (once rescued)

Then again, I guess that pretty much IS the New Warriors cast, Darkhawk taking Turbo's spot.

Turbo is still around, although she's probably the most vocal about hanging up the capes for good in the former teen hero support group, The Loners (formerly known as Excelsior). Heck, given that they were once bankrolled by Rick Jones, I am curious how they'd feel upon finding out Rick himself is A-Bomb and part of the Hulk's Gamma Saiyen Family. While all of the Loners were willing to don the costumes for emergencies, Darkhawk was the one who was least able to kick it.

I sort of feel bad about Justice and Firestar being lumped back with the NW's, since they both graduated to being Avengers for a stretch of time. Justice has been involved in side Avengers stuff like the Initiative and Academy for some time now. He did re-organize a lot of the "old" Warriors into Avengers Resistance during Dark Reign, of course. Firestar, in YOUNG ALLIES, only seems interested in part time heroics, although she's supposedly getting closer to Gravity. I guess if Vance can rebound with Ultra-Girl (almost immediately after the marriage was off), it's only fair that Angelica get one too.

There's actually a bit of potential, character/story wise, between Donyell Taylor/Night-Thrasher II and Rage/Elvin Holiday. The original Night-Thrasher was Elvin's legal guardian, so Donyell would basically be Rage's adopted uncle. He was originally the thief Bandit and fought Dwayne for ages until eventually reforming and taking up the mantle after his death. Plus, while he was a character nobody likes or missed, technically Microbe was also an adopted kid of Taylor's who died in Stamford, too. Dwayne took Rage in when his grandmother was killed by gang members, if memory serves. It is a little bit of a mess, but to me it actually isn't far removed from some foster care cases I had as a social worker, albeit with the exaggerations expected in superhero fiction. Rage is, basically, a foster kid with super powers who lost the two people he looked to as parental figures, as well as a "foster brother" he likely barely knew. If Donyell wants to take over all of his brother's responsibilities, that means being a mentor and support for Elvin. But does Elvin want to listen? He's not 14 anymore, but he isn't 18 either (even if he has an adult, super-powered body). I think the dynamic between these two could be quite interesting to see play out - sort of like a version of the dynamic Stargirl and STRIPE used to have at DC.

Namorita is tricky. Technically, she IS still dead on Earth; her body should still likely be it's grave. Nova exploited the Fault being beyond the rules of space/time to yank a past version of Namorita from it, even though she was dead on earth. So while this is a past version of Namorita from 90's continuity, that doesn't effect the 616 timeline nor "undo" the death of that version of the character. I suppose if Namorita did find out about all this (since neither Nova or Darkhawk ever told her), she might feel betrayed or confused or so on. It would feel like she was no longer the "real" Namorita, even though she isn't a clone and technically is. Would her "mother" Namora accept her, and would Namorita tell her the particulars or just shrug and allow her to believe her daughter was back?

As much as I don't care for the idea of Ben Reilly coming back, the irony is he probably would know EXACTLY what Namorita may be going through, since that was his experience as a clone. Only, of course, he is ultimately Peter Parker's clone with downloaded memories, while Namorita isn't. Of course, a fluke of space/time might not seem much better.

As for Nova, he's a space hero bad-ass now, and that's usually above the league of the New Warriors (no offense). While he is willing to hang out with his old NW's buddies, he isn't the sort to drag them into his space drama, likely because he knows how dangerous it is. I'm certain Abnett & Lanning will revive Nova and Star-Lord when they're good and ready. I couldn't see Nova being more than a part-time Warrior without it seeming like a demotion.

Speedball's in a tricky sort of situation. He's part of the Avengers Academy staff, but does that make him an Avenger? Hank Pym is a founder and usually you're an Avenger if at least one of the founders recruits you, but I'm not too sure how it works. While the public overall has forgiven him, the citizens of Stamford still want to literally lynch him and he's still not emotionally recovered from all that, anyway. Christos Gage has taken the slow recovery route for Baldwin, rather than another 180, which I suppose could lend itself to some interesting stuff for a New Warriors reunion.

The last of the MVP clones in the Iron Spidey suits, I think Van, shouldn't be overlooked. He's still a blank slate that a writer could probably take all sorts of interesting places. Unlike Donyell, who is technically a mutant (even if at times he seems to "forget" he has powers because he never uses them), MVP was technically just a human; albeit one who attained peak status naturally. Metaphorically, he's there to replace Ben Reilly, the last New Warrior to call himself Scarlet Spider. How would that feel? He was used to being with his two clone brothers, who are dead. He has some connection to the original MVP, who is also dead and whose real father doesn't want much to do with him. He wears a costume that represents a period when Spider-Man was, basically, a stooge for Iron Man during a period when Stark was perhaps his most aggressive and corrupt. Van in a way is a character most writers should love; not a character they had to create from the ground up, but still raw enough that he could become whoever they need or want him to be. There are no expectations either; even with characters like Justice or Nova, you can only go so far, but Van's almost a blank slate. Perhaps this could have him relate to Namorita, assuming she was going through issues finding out the truth about her counterpart - the idea of "am I a real person or just a clone/time travel fluke by product"?

The sheer number of dead New Warriors is fairly staggering, actually. Dwayne Taylor, Microbe, Nova (for now), Bolt, Aegis, Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider...they almost have a worse survival rate than the GLA.

My roster for a NEW WARRIOR reunion? May as well put up or shut up.

Night-Thrasher II
Rage
Darkhawk
Van/Scarlet Spider
Namorita

Those are the five I am probably most sure about. I am hesitant to want to attach Justice and Firestar back there because both "graduated" to the Avengers and doing otherwise would feel like a demotion. Like if Dick Grayson went from being Batman and being on the JLA regularly to being Nightwing and heading the Titans again with other losers who never go upward like Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven (who never achieve anything important in the DCU).

However, if Firestar remains unattached to the Avengers, I could be down with her returning to the NW's, but only if Gravity came with her.

Ideally, the New Warriors would be the stepping stone to the Avengers, but realistically that never happens; like the Young Avengers, they're former teenage heroes no adult hero wanted to train or be responsible for who became their own heroes. Actually, how adult heroes treat teenage ones is almost appalling in Marvel; they want NOTHING to do with them unless things go wrong and they want to either get the kids to quit or recruit them as canon fodder. There was so much hand wringing from adult heroes after Stamford about untrained heroes - well, Speedball tried out for the Avengers, Iron Man - YOU guys just decided to boot him and not bother training him. You had your chance and you blew it, but by all means blame him and not Nitro when things go wrong.

This leads into another rant about how Marvel has so many "young" characters that they never do anything with or never become popular or important because the adult generation never retires. There are no end of "young X-Men" who never broke through. The New Warriors, Young Allies, Young Avengers, Academy X, etc. I've said this before, but the only way Marvel is going to boost any of these characters is to force their retailers and customers to read them with a WORLD WITHOUT GROWN UPS type event, like DC did for YOUNG JUSTICE in the late 90's. Something happens in the Marvel Universe, preferably a villain, who decides to get rid of all the well known adults heroes. Are they dead, or just elsewhere? Who knows. ZAP, they're gone. No Fan Four, no Avengers, no 600 adult X-Men. Now the kids and the forgotten ones have to rise up and step up, or the world's doomed. The biggest challenge is the plan could easily backfire and Marvel could lose a great deal of their fans forever. Of course, is that really better than losing a great deal of their fans forever in a slow bleed currently, or to at least try something different and cut to the chase? If you had a choice of being executed in a year, or having the option to win a race or be executed tomorrow, which would you take? The easy road to oblivion or the shot that at least has an improbable chance of success (or at least cutting to the chase)?

I mean, I could almost write the villain speech now: "I got rid of all the legends, the gods, the legacies. No Captain America to spoil my plans, no Iron Man or Mr. Fantastic to figure it out, no Spider-Man to win with guile, or Hulk to win with might. No Wolverine, no Cyclops, not even a Storm or a Black Panther or Daredevil. Everyone with even an improbable chance of beating me are gone. And now who is left? Darkhawk? Stature? Arana? Ultra-Girl? Elixir? I barely even know your names, and your mentors have stifled your potential your entire lives. You are akin to seeds not allowed to germinate for decades and now are expected to refill a forest. You've no hope of victory. But try anyway, if you be the fools your mentors assume you to be." And then if they actually pull it off, after being invested in by Marvel for a while (6-8 months) as "important", well....it's riskier than throwing hammers at people during a "THOR" film year, that's for sure.

 

[roach]

Avengers-Every person who ever was on the team is now an active member with Cap, IM and Thor as the overall leaders. That way you can build specific teams around the needs of the mission.Wasp and Captain Marvel(Photon) will be squad leaders.

Focus back on mystical events much like Annihilation Saga.

Dr Strange- focus on why he is awesome and a look into what it truely means to be the Sorceror Supreme

Moon Knight-what Dread said

Spider-man 2099

 

[JewishHobbit]

Avengers-Every person who ever was on the team is now an active member with Cap, IM and Thor as the overall leaders. That way you can build specific teams around the needs of the mission.Wasp and Captain Marvel(Photon) will be squad leaders.

I'd say no to this.... only because it immediately makes me think of Uncanny X-Men. Replace Avengers with X-Men, replace Cap, IM, and Thor with Cyclops, Emma, and Magneto, and there you have it. No character progression, no personal stories, no growth of any type.

Turbo is still around, although she's probably the most vocal about hanging up the capes for good in the former teen hero support group, The Loners (formerly known as Excelsior).

This is why I actually didn't include her on the roster. I figure someone had to stick to their guns and I like her role as a mentor to former teen heroes. She can cameo though

I sort of feel bad about Justice and Firestar being lumped back with the NW's, since they both graduated to being Avengers for a stretch of time. Justice has been involved in side Avengers stuff like the Initiative and Academy for some time now. He did re-organize a lot of the "old" Warriors into Avengers Resistance during Dark Reign, of course. Firestar, in YOUNG ALLIES, only seems interested in part time heroics, although she's supposedly getting closer to Gravity. I guess if Vance can rebound with Ultra-Girl (almost immediately after the marriage was off), it's only fair that Angelica get one too.

I actually agree about it being a demotion but my goal in my line up was to get a New Warriors book launched with the best chances of it selling and I feel like you need as many of the original characters as you can. Justice and Firestar were top notch characters for the team.

However, I suppose Justice could be removed to focus more on the Avenger thing. Firestar, however, hasn't been Avengering since leaving after her initial stint. I think she's still good to go, though I think Justice should at least be in the first arc to pull in readers and help save Nova.

There's actually a bit of potential, character/story wise, between Donyell Taylor/Night-Thrasher II and Rage/Elvin Holiday. The original Night-Thrasher was Elvin's legal guardian, so Donyell would basically be Rage's adopted uncle. He was originally the thief Bandit and fought Dwayne for ages until eventually reforming and taking up the mantle after his death. Plus, while he was a character nobody likes or missed, technically Microbe was also an adopted kid of Taylor's who died in Stamford, too. Dwayne took Rage in when his grandmother was killed by gang members, if memory serves. It is a little bit of a mess, but to me it actually isn't far removed from some foster care cases I had as a social worker, albeit with the exaggerations expected in superhero fiction. Rage is, basically, a foster kid with super powers who lost the two people he looked to as parental figures, as well as a "foster brother" he likely barely knew. If Donyell wants to take over all of his brother's responsibilities, that means being a mentor and support for Elvin. But does Elvin want to listen? He's not 14 anymore, but he isn't 18 either (even if he has an adult, super-powered body). I think the dynamic between these two could be quite interesting to see play out - sort of like a version of the dynamic Stargirl and STRIPE used to have at DC.

No need for me to go into length... I'll just say I like how you think here

Namorita is tricky. Technically, she IS still dead on Earth; her body should still likely be it's grave. Nova exploited the Fault being beyond the rules of space/time to yank a past version of Namorita from it, even though she was dead on earth. So while this is a past version of Namorita from 90's continuity, that doesn't effect the 616 timeline nor "undo" the death of that version of the character. I suppose if Namorita did find out about all this (since neither Nova or Darkhawk ever told her), she might feel betrayed or confused or so on. It would feel like she was no longer the "real" Namorita, even though she isn't a clone and technically is. Would her "mother" Namora accept her, and would Namorita tell her the particulars or just shrug and allow her to believe her daughter was back?

As much as I don't care for the idea of Ben Reilly coming back, the irony is he probably would know EXACTLY what Namorita may be going through, since that was his experience as a clone. Only, of course, he is ultimately Peter Parker's clone with downloaded memories, while Namorita isn't. Of course, a fluke of space/time might not seem much better.

The last of the MVP clones in the Iron Spidey suits, I think Van, shouldn't be overlooked. He's still a blank slate that a writer could probably take all sorts of interesting places. Unlike Donyell, who is technically a mutant (even if at times he seems to "forget" he has powers because he never uses them), MVP was technically just a human; albeit one who attained peak status naturally. Metaphorically, he's there to replace Ben Reilly, the last New Warrior to call himself Scarlet Spider. How would that feel? He was used to being with his two clone brothers, who are dead. He has some connection to the original MVP, who is also dead and whose real father doesn't want much to do with him. He wears a costume that represents a period when Spider-Man was, basically, a stooge for Iron Man during a period when Stark was perhaps his most aggressive and corrupt. Van in a way is a character most writers should love; not a character they had to create from the ground up, but still raw enough that he could become whoever they need or want him to be. There are no expectations either; even with characters like Justice or Nova, you can only go so far, but Van's almost a blank slate. Perhaps this could have him relate to Namorita, assuming she was going through issues finding out the truth about her counterpart - the idea of "am I a real person or just a clone/time travel fluke by product"?

Namorita is hard for me only because I found her to be the least interesting New Warrior ever. I've never cared for her, however, paring her with Van in your idea would be a very interesting plot to follow. I'd be interested in seeing how that played out.

As for Nova, he's a space hero bad-ass now, and that's usually above the league of the New Warriors (no offense). While he is willing to hang out with his old NW's buddies, he isn't the sort to drag them into his space drama, likely because he knows how dangerous it is. I'm certain Abnett & Lanning will revive Nova and Star-Lord when they're good and ready. I couldn't see Nova being more than a part-time Warrior without it seeming like a demotion.

I completely agree, but again, it was my way of getting the most readers possible... and sadly, a Nova onging doesn't sell well enough to stay afloat.

Speedball's in a tricky sort of situation. He's part of the Avengers Academy staff, but does that make him an Avenger? Hank Pym is a founder and usually you're an Avenger if at least one of the founders recruits you, but I'm not too sure how it works. While the public overall has forgiven him, the citizens of Stamford still want to literally lynch him and he's still not emotionally recovered from all that, anyway. Christos Gage has taken the slow recovery route for Baldwin, rather than another 180, which I suppose could lend itself to some interesting stuff for a New Warriors reunion.

I don't think this would be a problem. I think Gage will ultimately redeem him before long... but fact remains, Speedball's grown up. He's good enough to move on to the New Warriors and be a strong character again.

And no, I don't think of him as an Avenger. He teaches, but he's never been an Avenger. It's like Emma Frost. Her joining the X-Men happened in Morrison's New X-Men, not during her Generation X days. She was an allie, not an X-Man. The same goes with Speedball in my opinion.

The sheer number of dead New Warriors is fairly staggering, actually. Dwayne Taylor, Microbe, Nova (for now), Bolt, Aegis, Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider...they almost have a worse survival rate than the GLA.

When did Aegis die?

My roster for a NEW WARRIOR reunion? May as well put up or shut up.

Night-Thrasher II
Rage
Darkhawk
Van/Scarlet Spider
Namorita

Those are the five I am probably most sure about. I am hesitant to want to attach Justice and Firestar back there because both "graduated" to the Avengers and doing otherwise would feel like a demotion. Like if Dick Grayson went from being Batman and being on the JLA regularly to being Nightwing and heading the Titans again with other losers who never go upward like Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven (who never achieve anything important in the DCU).

However, if Firestar remains unattached to the Avengers, I could be down with her returning to the NW's, but only if Gravity came with her.

Okay, let's compromise with this little brainstorm we have here....

First arc is a loose no-team premise.

Darkhawk and Namorita go to Justice and Speedball about Nova's death. Speedball doesn't believe it due to his time stuck in alternate realities and convinces the rest to find a way there. They pull in members of the Avengers Resistence: Night Thrasher, Rage, Ultra Girl, and Scarlet Spider (Van). They go to Nova's depowered brother, Robbie Rider, and Evalyne Necker who helps them find a way to the calapsed Cancerverse and everyone manages to save Nova and Star Lord.

When the smoke clears Nova thanks everyone but has too big of responsibilities and returns to space, but not without first giving Robbie his powers back. Star Lord goes with him. There's talk of reforming the old crew but Justice declines, not willing to give up on the Avenger Academy kids but he encourages Speedball to stay, as he needs the old team to continue moving on from his mistakes. Justice and Ultra Girl leave (Ultra Girl maybe to take Speedball's place in the Academy?)

So that leaves:

Darkhawk
Speedball
Firestar
Rage
Night Thrasher II
Namorita
Scarlet Spider (Van)
Gravity
Nova (Robbie)

That gives 3 long timers (Speedball, Firestar, Rage), 1 longtimer in body with no memories of her life as a New Warriors (Namorita), two longtime associates and reserved new Warriors (Night Thrasher II, Darkhawk), two up and comers (Scarlet Spider, Gravity), and one legacy character (Robbie Rider).

I can work with that

Ideally, the New Warriors would be the stepping stone to the Avengers, but realistically that never happens.

Then I say screw that and move on from it. Make the New Warriors something all of their own apart from the Avengers. Maybe even Justice can give a speach that the next generation of Avengers are being trained in the Academy and that they've all been in the game long enough to be their own heroes. It may even lead to a name change making them as different as the Avengers are from the Fantastic Four or the X-Men. Make it a point to have them characters an a team in no one's shadow.

 

[roach]

I'd say no to this.... only because it immediately makes me think of Uncanny X-Men. Replace Avengers with X-Men, replace Cap, IM, and Thor with Cyclops, Emma, and Magneto, and there you have it. No character progression, no personal stories, no growth of any type.

there isnt much character progression because the books have been stuck in writing for trade mode. I look at Claremont's legendary run on X-men and Simonson's awesome run on Thor and they'd have single issue stories which dealt with character growth.
Besides the writers neglected the other X-men in favor of showing us over and over and over again how awesome Scott and Emma are.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Anything from the Malibu Universe.

If I had to choose though, the Ultraforce.

 

[roach]

Prime should be added to the Marvel Universe

 

[Brainiac 8]

Prime should be added to the Marvel Universe

This. He was like a cool mixture of Superman and Shazam.

Ghoul would be awesome. He's a hero, a zombie, and pure snark.

 

[roach]

Marvel is sitting on a gold mine and dont realize it

 

[Dread]

Marvel will never touch the ULTRAVERSE characters because a clause in their contracts from the purchase of the properties states that the creators of the characters must get a cut of any sales figures used with them. The same Marvel that claims moral superiority every time DC does something dirty balks at creator royalties of their own (especially since these are creators who did work in the 90's, not the 60's). Marvel really only wanted the Malibu characters to gain access to their then sophisticated coloring technology.

This is why I actually didn't include her on the roster. I figure someone had to stick to their guns and I like her role as a mentor to former teen heroes. She can cameo though

Yeah, Turbo cameos would be fine. A supporting cast for any team book is ideal, so there's nothing wrong with having some retired members as those. Just because she doesn't want to slap on her Turbo costume and fight the villains again doesn't mean some of these people aren't friends and she can't hang out during civilian affairs - especially since, when last we checked, she and Chris Powell seemed to be dating.

I actually agree about it being a demotion but my goal in my line up was to get a New Warriors book launched with the best chances of it selling and I feel like you need as many of the original characters as you can. Justice and Firestar were top notch characters for the team.

However, I suppose Justice could be removed to focus more on the Avenger thing. Firestar, however, hasn't been Avengering since leaving after her initial stint. I think she's still good to go, though I think Justice should at least be in the first arc to pull in readers and help save Nova.

It wasn't along ago that you bemoaned AVENGERS ACADEMY because most of their instructors were not high profile enough; now you want to insert Justice and Firestar into a NW book because you think they could sell it? I suppose there is a difference, but Firestar certainly didn't keep YOUNG ALLIES afloat.

There is nothing wrong with pals sticking together; Vance and Angelica visited Richard Rider in NOVA for a little reunion when he was trying to think about the whole Nova Corps expansion, and they all met up at a bar apparently before WAR OF KINGS. It does seem to go against Angelica's current kick to keep being a masked heroine a part-time affair, although it could be said that so do YOUNG ALLIES adventures. To be honest a part of me was surprised Richard never considered asking former New Warriors to join the Corps when he decided to recruit; surely they'd have more experience than hapless civilians left over from Ego's administration, right? Even Timeslip and Hindsight Lad got involved in some **** before.

I do suppose that for an initial launch it wouldn't be a bad idea to reunite as many of the old faces as possible, at least for a debut issue.

Namorita is hard for me only because I found her to be the least interesting New Warrior ever. I've never cared for her, however, paring her with Van in your idea would be a very interesting plot to follow. I'd be interested in seeing how that played out.

Namorita had an confusing dynamic back in the day. With the New Warriors she was aggressive, assertive and experienced, while within Namor's then current series, she was very much his "teen sidekick" and usually getting into trouble.

But, yeah, I figured it would give Van something to do while exploring Namorita's subplot.

I completely agree, but again, it was my way of getting the most readers possible... and sadly, a Nova onging doesn't sell well enough to stay afloat.

I do believe Abnett & Lanning command a more loyal audience than others. THE ANNIHILATORS, at $4.99 a pop, is selling better than Greg Pak's SILVER SURFER, which is a dollar cheaper, by about 2-3k copies. While I don't think Nova will command another ongoing, his series did last 36 issues, which is a damn fine run by today's standards (or even 90's standards; SLEEPWALKER didn't last that long).

There is a stable "space audience" of about 22-26k who usually turn out for Abnett & Lanning affairs. That is probably why while Marvel thought selling ANNIHILATORS and ROCKET & GROOT as two $3.99 mini's was a bit much, merging them was still viable. There are plenty of ongoing series that wish they could count on more than 20,000 people to show up for most issues. I imagine Marvel will give them more space mini's as long as that audience continues to turn out.

I don't think this would be a problem. I think Gage will ultimately redeem him before long... but fact remains, Speedball's grown up. He's good enough to move on to the New Warriors and be a strong character again.

And no, I don't think of him as an Avenger. He teaches, but he's never been an Avenger. It's like Emma Frost. Her joining the X-Men happened in Morrison's New X-Men, not during her Generation X days. She was an allie, not an X-Man. The same goes with Speedball in my opinion.

That sounds reasonable. Although it kind of a shame to think about it. Speedball is fighting alongside actual Avengers nobody really cares about like Jocasta and Tigra, but because Steve Rogers and Iron Man didn't welcome him with a parade, he's not "really" an Avenger. Gage is doing a solid job with him, IMO.

"Moving on with the New Warriors" sometimes sounds like "moving on with the Oakland Raiders", but I'll try to be supportive.

When did Aegis die?

In INCREDIBLE HERCULES some time ago; he was killed by the Huntsman on the behalf of Hera, so she could give his Aegis breastplate to Typhon. However, it was implied that Athena allowed him to die so he could assist Herc and Cho in the underworld, where they were seeking out Zeus. It was a lesson to Cho not to listen to Athena TOO precisely.

Okay, let's compromise with this little brainstorm we have here....

First arc is a loose no-team premise.

Darkhawk and Namorita go to Justice and Speedball about Nova's death. Speedball doesn't believe it due to his time stuck in alternate realities and convinces the rest to find a way there. They pull in members of the Avengers Resistence: Night Thrasher, Rage, Ultra Girl, and Scarlet Spider (Van). They go to Nova's depowered brother, Robbie Rider, and Evalyne Necker who helps them find a way to the calapsed Cancerverse and everyone manages to save Nova and Star Lord.

When the smoke clears Nova thanks everyone but has too big of responsibilities and returns to space, but not without first giving Robbie his powers back. Star Lord goes with him. There's talk of reforming the old crew but Justice declines, not willing to give up on the Avenger Academy kids but he encourages Speedball to stay, as he needs the old team to continue moving on from his mistakes. Justice and Ultra Girl leave (Ultra Girl maybe to take Speedball's place in the Academy?)

So that leaves:

Darkhawk
Speedball
Firestar
Rage
Night Thrasher II
Namorita
Scarlet Spider (Van)
Gravity
Nova (Robbie)

That gives 3 long timers (Speedball, Firestar, Rage), 1 longtimer in body with no memories of her life as a New Warriors (Namorita), two longtime associates and reserved new Warriors (Night Thrasher II, Darkhawk), two up and comers (Scarlet Spider, Gravity), and one legacy character (Robbie Rider).

I can work with that

That doesn't sound bad. Richard allowed his brother Robbie to join the Corps, although when he "died" Robbie had been demoted from a Centurion to a Corpsman by Philo, who felt that Ego had been allowed too many untrained cadets to have too much Nova Force. I suppose given Robbie's smarts, he did prove himself capable of using Centurion level powers, albeit in more of an mathematical way than as a bruiser. If Richard was willing to have Robbie stick around in dangerous space battles, I am curious what he would feel about leaving him on earth. It would be better for their parents, although at least in space, Nova can keep an eye on him. It would be interesting, at the least. Personally, I wasn't the biggest fan of Richard stripping ALL of the Corps of the Nova Force; it prevented them from being in stories without him and I think was a short sighted idea. Especially since DC is printing money with all their 15 trillion GREEN LANTERNS, three of which come from earth.

At any rate, inserting the NEW WARRIORS into a space story seems a bit odd; sort of like Kyle Rayner expecting to be saved by the Outsiders. The space audience is loyal but still not TOO big. Still, it is probably a better launch premise than much else that Marvel have tried recently. Of course, if Nova and Star-Lord are alive in whatever is left of the Cancerverse, which may be a void after Thanos' tantrum, then so is Thanos, somewhere. A win over Thanos would probably be a nice rep boost, and tie into their initial launch when they defeated (a not at full power) Terrax. However, I can't quite imagine Nova being revived and leaving Namorita on earth again.

I would like to see Donyell incorporate his mutant powers as Night-Thrasher; he generated electricity on contact like an electric eel, which he used to use to activate his crossbows if memory serves. I'd like to see more of that involved with his Night-Thrasher armor, since at times it seems like writers forget he has mutant powers and just have him throw around sticks. He wasn't depowered on M-Day and I suppose the Grevioux run of NW implied using his powers because he had a lot of hi-tech gadgets in his armor that Donyell could have powered via his abilities.

Then I say screw that and move on from it. Make the New Warriors something all of their own apart from the Avengers. Maybe even Justice can give a speach that the next generation of Avengers are being trained in the Academy and that they've all been in the game long enough to be their own heroes. It may even lead to a name change making them as different as the Avengers are from the Fantastic Four or the X-Men. Make it a point to have them characters an a team in no one's shadow.

The dilemma with that is the name; they're over 30 years old - that isn't exactly "new". Of course, the NEW AVENGERS have been around over 6 years and needed a relaunch, so they're not exactly new either. The NEW WARRIORS were launched in the 90's to be an "updated" version of the Teen Titans, with characters who had either been short lived teen heroes on their own, such as Speedball and Nova, allying with some sidekicks like Marvel Boy (who had tagged along with Thing a while) or Namorita as well as Firestar (then a spare Hellion) and the new character Night-Thrasher. A few of them had been rejected for Avengers membership, and Rage actually started out as an Avenger by lying about his age. This presents a problem; while Speedball or Night-Thrasher could preach up and down about being something different, it is easier said than done.

The New Warriors sought to originally be distinct from the Avengers by taking on cases that they ignored, but in practice this was easier said than done, and is usually just an excuse for "urban crime" stories. The challenge would be to present them without it just seeming like "yet another minor league hero team" which I think has held them back in the past.

 

[JewishHobbit]

It wasn't along ago that you bemoaned AVENGERS ACADEMY because most of their instructors were not high profile enough; now you want to insert Justice and Firestar into a NW book because you think they could sell it?

I think they can sell it because it's what they're best known for. When you think of Avengers, sadly, Justice and Speedball are very low on those you'd like to see... but when you think of New Warriors... they're at the top along with the other original cast members. If you want to get the New Warriors going again, that's who you need.

I do suppose that for an initial launch it wouldn't be a bad idea to reunite as many of the old faces as possible, at least for a debut issue.

Yeah, I think that'd be a good start. Get the readers in and form the group more dynamically as a result of the first arc. It'd be wierd to just throw them together and say "we're a team again!" Saving Nova is something that would reuinite them along with the Avengers Resistance and even Gravity. Fighting together against Thanos and winning, saving Nova and Star Lord, and getting those old emotions going, is enough to cement the team again.

There is a stable "space audience" of about 22-26k who usually turn out for Abnett & Lanning affairs. That is probably why while Marvel thought selling ANNIHILATORS and ROCKET & GROOT as two $3.99 mini's was a bit much, merging them was still viable. There are plenty of ongoing series that wish they could count on more than 20,000 people to show up for most issues. I imagine Marvel will give them more space mini's as long as that audience continues to turn out.

Then what if this New Warriors pitch were written as a loose cosmic mini by DnA. Then out of it they can launch the New Warriors ongoing with their new team name and direction, and perhaps a Nova & Star Lord mini

That doesn't sound bad. Richard allowed his brother Robbie to join the Corps, although when he "died" Robbie had been demoted from a Centurion to a Corpsman by Philo, who felt that Ego had been allowed too many untrained cadets to have too much Nova Force. I suppose given Robbie's smarts, he did prove himself capable of using Centurion level powers, albeit in more of an mathematical way than as a bruiser. If Richard was willing to have Robbie stick around in dangerous space battles, I am curious what he would feel about leaving him on earth. It would be better for their parents, although at least in space, Nova can keep an eye on him. It would be interesting, at the least. Personally, I wasn't the biggest fan of Richard stripping ALL of the Corps of the Nova Force; it prevented them from being in stories without him and I think was a short sighted idea. Especially since DC is printing money with all their 15 trillion GREEN LANTERNS, three of which come from earth.

I agree here. THey had a good start with the Nova Corps but I don't think it was catching on. I think what hurt it was a lack of focus on anyone but the Rider brothers and fairly generic characters. The first thing I'd like to see is when Nova returns, he repowers the Corps.

At any rate, inserting the NEW WARRIORS into a space story seems a bit odd; sort of like Kyle Rayner expecting to be saved by the Outsiders. The space audience is loyal but still not TOO big. Still, it is probably a better launch premise than much else that Marvel have tried recently. Of course, if Nova and Star-Lord are alive in whatever is left of the Cancerverse, which may be a void after Thanos' tantrum, then so is Thanos, somewhere. A win over Thanos would probably be a nice rep boost, and tie into their initial launch when they defeated (a not at full power) Terrax. However, I can't quite imagine Nova being revived and leaving Namorita on earth again.

Cool, then take her with him Like I said, I wasn't a fan of her's to begin with.

And the New Warriors in a space story isn't anything new. They had several of them in their initial plot. Their first issue had them against Terrax and their last few facing a Dire Wraith (currently in Annihilators). They went to space to face Supernova. I want to say there were more mixed in there but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Then of course there was the Sphinx, their main nemesis.

The dilemma with that is the name; they're over 30 years old - that isn't exactly "new". This presents a problem; while Speedball or Night-Thrasher could preach up and down about being something different, it is easier said than done.

The New Warriors sought to originally be distinct from the Avengers by taking on cases that they ignored, but in practice this was easier said than done, and is usually just an excuse for "urban crime" stories. The challenge would be to present them without it just seeming like "yet another minor league hero team" which I think has held them back in the past.

I don't think this would be hard to get away from at all. Plain and simple, change. It's not like the Fantstic Four trying to get away from being the Fantastic Four. Does anyone believe that FF will last? No. New Warriors, however, aren't as specific in their purpose as a group and aren't as long lasting. And their members have since branched off to their own things for a decade now, enough that if they were to reform they're not exactly the kids they were in the early 90's.

I don't think it'd be hard to move them beyond the teen heroes possibly future Avengers thing at all.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Anything from the Malibu Universe.

If I had to choose though, the Ultraforce.

Prime and Ghoul would be great additions. Also Sludge.

My main choice though would be members from the All New Exiles, as that was my Malibu book of choice. 'Strike and Shuriken would fit in well with Marvel's street heroes. Amber Hunt would be interesting. Hellblade is far to 90's to fit in though and I never really cared for Cayman.

 

[Dread]

I think they can sell it because it's what they're best known for. When you think of Avengers, sadly, Justice and Speedball are very low on those you'd like to see... but when you think of New Warriors... they're at the top along with the other original cast members. If you want to get the New Warriors going again, that's who you need.

It is true. I have criticized Marvel for relaunching the New Warriors at least twice (not counting a mini) with premises that didn't fit them and with a large chunk of their old regular cast gone. Yet a few of them like Justice have felt like they moved on a bit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to reunite as many of the founders as possible, at least for the opening issue or arc. Justice still visits with them when he can in civilian attire and naturally organized "Counter Force" and "Avengers Resistance" out of former members. He certainly rebounded with Ultra-Girl, who was retroactively made a New Warrior alongside Slapstick back in 90's continuity.

Yeah, I think that'd be a good start. Get the readers in and form the group more dynamically as a result of the first arc. It'd be wierd to just throw them together and say "we're a team again!" Saving Nova is something that would reuinite them along with the Avengers Resistance and even Gravity. Fighting together against Thanos and winning, saving Nova and Star Lord, and getting those old emotions going, is enough to cement the team again.

Then what if this New Warriors pitch were written as a loose cosmic mini by DnA. Then out of it they can launch the New Warriors ongoing with their new team name and direction, and perhaps a Nova & Star Lord mini

Abnett & Lanning could likely handle a damn fine New Warriors series. I'm certainly enjoying their HEROES FOR HIRE more than I did their IRON MAN/THOR, or even some segments of ANNIHILATORS (not ROCKET AND GROOT; that's awesome). They're moving into NEW MUTANTS and will likely pick up with Havok, Polaris, and/or Marvel Girl from where they left off with them in WAR OF KINGS, so it isn't something that is unheard of. My head says the best idea would be a writer with more "rep" than them, but I'd want it written well and Abnett & Lanning could write it well. Hell, they had Nova reunite with Vance and Angelica in NOVA once already.

Gravity was involved in some cosmic shenanigans in BEYOND! and in Dwayne McDuffie's subsequent run on FANTASTIC FOUR, helping save Epoch (who Quasar used to babysit) from Galactus and then helping the Four and Dr. Strange save Eternity (literally). For a rookie, he's been involved in a damn lot of stuff.

I agree here. THey had a good start with the Nova Corps but I don't think it was catching on. I think what hurt it was a lack of focus on anyone but the Rider brothers and fairly generic characters. The first thing I'd like to see is when Nova returns, he repowers the Corps.

Right. But did the Nova Corps really have a chance to catch on? Once Ego was taken care of, a lot of time was spent with Nova doing solo stuff and being away from them. There wasn't enough time to flesh them out. While I liked that arc with Sphinx that got Namorita back, that was pretty much the last chance for the Corps to really assert themselves.

But I thought they had. Robbie is a long term, defined character. Qubit, Irani, Philo, that dragon-woman...they were all just as deep as, say, Agent Brand, who everyone suddenly loves. There was that unresolved subplot with a seemingly resurrected Super-Nova saving the captured Tarcel from Vulcan's dungeon that went nowhere. But now I am digressing.

I don't think it is fair to say they never caught on; DnA barely tried. Again, the Nova stuff has always been a riff at best of GL; why not go all the way and exploit the perks? Heck, I'm irritated that Jack Flag hasn't done anything in ages!

Cool, then take her with him Like I said, I wasn't a fan of her's to begin with.

And the New Warriors in a space story isn't anything new. They had several of them in their initial plot. Their first issue had them against Terrax and their last few facing a Dire Wraith (currently in Annihilators). They went to space to face Supernova. I want to say there were more mixed in there but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Then of course there was the Sphinx, their main nemesis.

True. Plus, I stated Gravity's space cred. Hell, he even met the Watcher. You can't be a real space adventurer unless you have one of Uatu's "I totally can't interfere, but just this once for the hundredth time I can give you a hint or a Maguffin or a free transport to a key location..." speeches.

I'm torn on it, but it would probably make sense. The only other story that could have any hope of buzz besides that would be them reviving Ben Reilly for some reason. But that would return to the late 90's days of trying to make the NW's a spin off of Spider-Man, which at the time was done to try to save them from cancellation - it didn't work, although a 75 issue run is nothing to sneer at.

I don't think this would be hard to get away from at all. Plain and simple, change. It's not like the Fantstic Four trying to get away from being the Fantastic Four. Does anyone believe that FF will last? No. New Warriors, however, aren't as specific in their purpose as a group and aren't as long lasting. And their members have since branched off to their own things for a decade now, enough that if they were to reform they're not exactly the kids they were in the early 90's.

I don't think it'd be hard to move them beyond the teen heroes possibly future Avengers thing at all.

What the New Warriors at least had in 1990 was them being Marvel's only teen hero team who weren't junior X-Men (who, in 1990, were still the New Mutants, but they were about to become X-Force). Nowadays, though, the NW's don't have that anymore; no, most of the characters are not teenagers anymore, but they're still compared and compete against Young Avengers or Young Allies or Runaways or New Mutants and so on. In the 20+ years since, retailers and fans have seen no end of "young" characters abandoned or tossed to the background and I think that prevents them from seriously supporting any launch involving them. To be fair, of course, NW's hasn't had a proper launch with their old cast since the 90's, and that is a long gap.

I think if the NEW WARRIORS were to try to find their own niche or angle, I think if Justice is going to at least be marginally involved, especially if Ultra-Girl is, then a theme they could try is taking on some newer generation villains. By that I mean some of the newer, younger villains who have popped up recently who haven't done much and who are still blank slates. I mean the Bastards of Evil, the "Young Masters"...maybe even Piledriver's son decides to "borrow" Wrecker's crowbar when he's in jail and try to do things better. Gravity himself had two such villains from his own series, Brushfire and Black Death; the latter of whom Rage even fought once, to tie that together. This might remind people of some of what they did in the 90's, taking on street gangs, but I think its a way to up the ante and flesh out some newer villains. Of course, now and again you can have a bigger villain show up or they take part in a crossover, and, ideally, play an important role. That is, if Marvel had the stones to amp any new characters.

---------

To take a step back from New Warriors chat for a second, may as well get in another of my usual "return/revitalization" ideas that I have posted about before, besides Moon Knight ideas. That is the Shroud. He's popped up in SHADOWLAND: BLOOD ON THE STREETS and he'll be popping up in something else in the near future, but the current track is to play him as a typical street vigilante, which I think is the wrong way to play him. There are too many of those. While it is true that his creator Steve Englehart deliberately based him on Batman and the Shadow, that's no excuse for fulfilling that cliche to the letter.

Shroud's old gimmick was pretending to be a costumed gangster, complete with his own crew (at the time, the Night Shift in L.A.) to infiltrate and undermine crime from within. He settled on this after literally trying to take out Dr. Doom in a head on match, and that didn't work out so well. This wasn't executed very well at the time, but that's no reason to abandon it forever. This angle, essentially, sees the Shroud as an "undercover", and that's a unique angle for a Marvel vigilante.

The dilemma is that Shroud's true purpose was revealed to the Night Shift, so he can't simply lead them again. Unlike a lot of other characters, though, the events of Civil War were a HELPFUL thing because that allowed him to build up some "street cred". Like no end of costumed figures on either end of the law, the Shroud was wanted. He fought Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man, and got arrested. He escaped prison during the final battle, and fled to Canada just like many American super-villains (like the Wrecking Crew and Purple Man). Heck, even in SHADOWLAND, he had a fight with Paladin on some roof tops. That's enough to maybe tie together a backstory that either Shroud was always a gangster and the Night Shift are full of it, or that he was "suckered" by the Avengers into switching teams but now he wants to go underworld again. He certainly wouldn't be the first "bad guy" who flip-flopped. Sandman was one of the Wild Pack and a reserve Avenger for a while. Venom went "vigilante" for a while and in a way hasn't gone back. Juggernaut seems to switch teams every few years (and he used to make a living as a brute for hire).

It isn't as if there is no place for an undercover. The Hood continues to have delusions of grandeur. The Kingpin is trying to settle into his old role. The Sinister Six are still plotting stuff. And hell, Count Nefaria has been keeping a low profile since being freed from prison in 2004-2005; mobsters with Thor-level powers are not to be left idle for long. But for the gimmick to work, very few heroes have to know that Shroud is really on "their" side. That means if he runs into a hero, he'll fight them - and maybe won't pull a punch once or twice, at least if a thug is watching. The AGENTS OF ATLAS tried to game Osborn with this ploy for a bit, and it was an interesting angle. Shroud, however, is a lone man, and doesn't have the raw power of, say, M-11, Namora, and Ken Hale.

Julia Carpenter, who Shroud has been dating, would probably be in the know; in fact, ideally she would literally be his best "contact", especially since the era of "Steve Rogers, Head of SHIELD" is ending. She's the new Madam Web which means she's likely taking it easy from nightly vigilante affairs. We could even re-establish Shroud's old front, which used to be the Cat's Jazz Club that was run by his two allies - burglar Edward "Cat" Lavender and driver/pickpocket Angeline "Mouse" Morrow. I mean, if Moon Knight can keep dragging along Marlene and Frenchie, why not these two with Shroud? They both moved to Manhattan with Shroud in the 90's but haven't done much since. They're fine supporting cast members because they have enough skills to be useful, yet have no powers so they could easily be in jeopardy if they're not careful, or get unlucky. A jazz club might be too outdated (it was a set up established in 1980), but it could always be reinvented as a more modern club. A successful front would also establish Shroud's rep on the streets, as many mobsters have fronts too. While Shroud does have Darkforce powers, he still is mostly reliant on his own prowess, fits, and fighting skills more than sheer super-abilities.

Finally, under this premise, Shroud would likely team up with some other super villains, likely "professionals" who were likely not maniac killers but types more after money than revenge or murder. This could allow one or two neglected villains from somewhere to get some fleshing, too. Taskmaster might be an interesting choice, since he's also had "rumors" about which side he is on, so he and Shroud could support each other in the underworld. To that end, we could throw in Constrictor to the mix, who brings his own unresolved drama with Diamondback (herself a former B.A.D. Girl and Serpent Society member who also dated Capt. America for ages).

At the very least, I think all this would be a better way to use Shroud than just having him be "yet another vigilante on the streets of New York City" as he has been used for the past, oh, 15 or so years.

 

[JewishHobbit]

What the New Warriors at least had in 1990 was them being Marvel's only teen hero team who weren't junior X-Men (who, in 1990, were still the New Mutants, but they were about to become X-Force). Nowadays, though, the NW's don't have that anymore; no, most of the characters are not teenagers anymore, but they're still compared and compete against Young Avengers or Young Allies or Runaways or New Mutants and so on. In the 20+ years since, retailers and fans have seen no end of "young" characters abandoned or tossed to the background and I think that prevents them from seriously supporting any launch involving them. To be fair, of course, NW's hasn't had a proper launch with their old cast since the 90's, and that is a long gap.

I think if the NEW WARRIORS were to try to find their own niche or angle, I think if Justice is going to at least be marginally involved, especially if Ultra-Girl is, then a theme they could try is taking on some newer generation villains. By that I mean some of the newer, younger villains who have popped up recently who haven't done much and who are still blank slates. I mean the Bastards of Evil, the "Young Masters"...maybe even Piledriver's son decides to "borrow" Wrecker's crowbar when he's in jail and try to do things better. Gravity himself had two such villains from his own series, Brushfire and Black Death; the latter of whom Rage even fought once, to tie that together. This might remind people of some of what they did in the 90's, taking on street gangs, but I think its a way to up the ante and flesh out some newer villains. Of course, now and again you can have a bigger villain show up or they take part in a crossover, and, ideally, play an important role. That is, if Marvel had the stones to amp any new characters.

See, my problem with this is that it then feels like you're moving back and not forward and placing them in the same old territory they were in in the 90's. They've all grown so much since then they should be taking on bigger threats than kids. Save those for the true teen teams like Young Avengers or Young Allies. I like the idea of the New Warriors still handling street level crime but instead of the Young Masters, throw them at Kingpin and his people. Maybe step it up to Crossbones and Sin.... bigger names, bigger threats. Step it down if there's a moral story to tell with it, like a religious story facing the Purifiers or something, but when not, make them work for their rep. And that's if you're dealing with street level. Occassionally, step it up to some cosmic threats or bigtime fights. I mean, their first two villains they fought were Juggernaut and Terrax... street crime got mixed in... but then they took on Terrax again, and Supernova, and Sphinx, and Dr. Doom. Fighting the Young Masters would be a serious step down from their initial origins, not a step up.

They need to be a team that other heroes and teams can look up to or be seen as being on par with. Leave the Bastards of Evil to people on their level... unless they're just facing Gravity and Night Thrasher II alone for an issue, then that'd be fine.

 

[Dread]

See, my problem with this is that it then feels like you're moving back and not forward and placing them in the same old territory they were in in the 90's. They've all grown so much since then they should be taking on bigger threats than kids. Save those for the true teen teams like Young Avengers or Young Allies. I like the idea of the New Warriors still handling street level crime but instead of the Young Masters, throw them at Kingpin and his people. Maybe step it up to Crossbones and Sin.... bigger names, bigger threats. Step it down if there's a moral story to tell with it, like a religious story facing the Purifiers or something, but when not, make them work for their rep. And that's if you're dealing with street level. Occassionally, step it up to some cosmic threats or bigtime fights. I mean, their first two villains they fought were Juggernaut and Terrax... street crime got mixed in... but then they took on Terrax again, and Supernova, and Sphinx, and Dr. Doom. Fighting the Young Masters would be a serious step down from their initial origins, not a step up.

They need to be a team that other heroes and teams can look up to or be seen as being on par with. Leave the Bastards of Evil to people on their level... unless they're just facing Gravity and Night Thrasher II alone for an issue, then that'd be fine.

The difficulty is that there are so many other super hero teams that it can be difficult to establish them as more than "just another super hero team". After all, DC has this problem, too, to a degree. They have the JLA, or two teams with GENERATION LOST. They have the TITANS, the TEEN TITANS, the OUTSIDERS, and two teams of JSA. Now, the JSA are all about training a new generation alongside the old generation. The Teen Titans used to be about the young heroes, although they have adult heroes with nothing better to do involved. But they all basically fight the same things.

In Marvel, we have three teams of Avengers and the Future Foundation (FF). The FF, as before, are mostly involved with science adventures, trips to other realms and space stuff; they lend a hand in standard superhero crises, usually against their particular adversaries, but their premise is being the exploration team mostly. The Avengers are the general guardian type heroes, fighting whatever the threat of the week is. To the best of my knowledge the AVENGERS fight the big stuff while NEW AVENGERS have dealt with more mystical or lower level stuff but there is overlap. ACADEMY is about training the next generation. SECRET AVENGERS are about...to be honest, a secret war with the newest "secret evil organization", the Shadow Council, while occasionally performing surgical strikes against immediate crises. The "junior" teams, Young Avengers, Young Allies, are the junior teams and that's enough - in theory they're the next heroes in training, although in reality the old guard never leave so they hit a wall and just fade into limbo, never to do anything relevant, like no end of "new" mutants/x-men/generation x, x-cetera.

The NEW WARRIORS, thus, even while trying to exploit their old cast and ties within, are in a limbo position. They're not teenagers anymore, and all have gone through their happy training period. But they're not Avengers and, at least for most of them, that's not an ultimate destination. Justice has been involved with the Avengers the longest of the lot; Firestar was involved with them a while, and Darkhawk, Rage and Nova were involved in very peripheral Avengers stuff (Rage for a short while before being booted, and Nova for one mission, in which he spent most of it possessed). Darkhawk was a reserve member for the WEST COAST AVENGERS, which is like being a third string quarterback for the Oakland Raiders. Speedball is part of the Academy staff and was technically the last of them to fall against Korvac lately, but is probably not considered an actual Avenger (even if D-Man is). And the rest really have never been Avengers and don't really aspire to be. The problem with all this is that without an effective premise, this just makes them "just another team", and I imagine this is the problem that Marvel have faced with official launches.

Obviously, delving too much into a gimmick premise hasn't worked. The "reality show" gimmick was really its own premise that Marvel cowardly attached to the New Warriors because they didn't have the balls to try selling an entirely new franchise to people to go alongside it. The last volume was essentially Donyell recruiting some ex-X-Men, and while it guest starred the older members, wasn't really about them (and took far longer than normal confirming members). Donyell becoming Night-Thrasher II was probably the most "vital" part of that run (although I actually liked Jubilee in that as Wondra, but apparently I was the only one as she's a vampire and once again Logan's sidekick now), which is likely why it has endured into AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE.

But would reuniting the old cast and telling effective stories with them be engaging enough? I think a large problem is the pool of effective villains the readership gets excited about and respects is a shrinking one, especially since THUNDERBOLTS have effectively rehabilitated many of them. Even Baron Zemo has to be a Batman-esque anti-hero, otherwise you get accused of writing him poorly. How many times can different teams fight Ultron, or the Wrecking Crew, or the Sinister Six? Simply having the series resume as it ended with volume 1, albeit with nods to what has come in the 12 or so years since with the characters, is probably a stronger premise than the last two that Marvel has tried. I am just partisan about whether it by virtue is enough. Most teams need at least some core topic or premise, from the Avengers to the X-Men to the Four. The New Warriors, now that they're grown and a great deal of them were at least part time Avengers or so on, lack that. They're just another team. They need SOMETHING that sets them apart. Even something as flimsy as, "led by an African American hero" isn't crudely unique anymore; Luke Cage has been the de facto leader of NEW AVENGERS for ages.

Even Nova, at best, has about 24k people at max who follow him, and that's only with Abnett & Lanning attached.

The angle that Grevioux went with in volume 4 was that Donyell Taylor was willing to reverse engineer technology from super-villains and use them for his NW roster. He was also willing to outright steal from villains who were posing no immediate threat to achieve his own goals; in a way, Christos Gage ended that arc in A:TI when he refused Osborn & Hood's offer of loyalty in exchange for bringing Dwayne back. The irony is the Hood has revived no end of villains with no after effects, so the two were telling the truth; they COULD have revived Dwayne. Which of course made his stand with Tigra against them stronger. But does that mean the ex-thief would forever abandon some "gray" shaded tactics? If he has, some of the older members might still be suspicious, and naturally there's the angle with Rage that I mentioned before that could really be interesting. But that's a character subplot, not a series premise.

The closest thing to a premise the team would have is trying to redeem their name from CIVIL WAR and the conception that they're all unstable has-beens or untrained weapons. I just question if it is enough, and if it isn't something a great deal of them aren't already doing alone. Justice faces it every time he makes an Avengers public appearance. Firestar I think is too part time that it matters to her; she'd rather focus on college and surviving cancer, even if that isn't going well. Speedball has been the most effected by it, and is about to be lynched by Stamford citizens in HOME FRONT. Rage and Darkhawk have mostly just ignored it. The problem with that premise was the very idea of blaming the NW's for Stamford was based on faulty logic and writing. Iron Man has quite literally been forgiven by the public for much, much worse. He literally assassinated a foreign diplomat on live TV, and nobody in Marvel mentions that anymore. The Avengers were unable to stop Kang from blowing up 600 people in Washington, D.C. as well as the U.N., yet no big deal was made of that in comparison to Stamford. But is "the redeem team" enough of a premise?

If I was going to try to come up with a premise out of thin air, if anything, while the New Warriors could be a team again, but a team that expands on the Academy idea (especially if we want Justice and Speedball involved to some degree). The AVENGERS ACADEMY is technically about taking some young superhumans that Norman Osborn tormented and tempted into being villains and trying to turn them into heroes - only Reptil was a pre-existing hero before that (and by that I meant he was part of the Initiative and was on about one mission with them). They're still very much an experiment and a very small class. What if the New Warriors offered a third option for young heroes who will never be Avengers, nor are applicable for the X-Men (or feel like avoiding the endless cycle of death, destruction, and incompetent leadership that plagues it)? That isn't to say that the NEW WARRIORS can't fight bigger threats if you like - but that they have a purpose in between that, too. Such as, the FF are like an elite prep school for the brightest, and the Avengers are a major league sports team, with the X-Men being what was once an indie music label that has sold out and become a bloated shell of itself. The New Warriors could be the community college option - the option most are more likely to fall into and yet an option that can still be strong enough for them to reach their potential.

The Slingers, Young Allies, spare Academy X kids, etc...they're never be the big leaguers. Those characters never die, never retire, never go anywhere and they should be self aware of that. The New Warriors could be the team that accepts them regardless of age and doesn't insist on them quitting or being canon fodder only for emergencies (as Steve Rogers has done, even if not deliberately. "I don't want you being Young Avengers...unless I am in a war with the federal government. Then I'm eager to throw your lives at it with a hokey speech"). They could be the team that accepts you and is willing to put you on the starting line up even if your past isn't perfect, so long as the dedication is there - maybe it is no accident that Justice, technically a convicted felon, is nothing but a C-List Avenger. That isn't to say that the NW maybe seek out new metahumans, but rather they'd accept the ones that are already here but in limbo. Rockslide and Anole want to be heroes? The X-Men and Avengers would say no, but the New Warriors would accept them and offer "real world" advice and aid, because they've been there.

I don't know. I just don't think reuniting an ideal roster and throwing them at Kang would really work without some premise behind it, same as JUST a premise and not the older roster being involved much hasn't clicked either.