Rev. Falwell decries stem cell research

[St. of Sinners]

Were you not paying attention, it has already been noted that many fetuses die from natural causes, like medical complications. Why can't we use those for medical research?

Because those are God's fetuses and he likes them untouched.

 

[War Lord]

Were you not paying attention, it has already been noted that many fetuses die from natural causes, like medical complications. Why can't we use those for medical research?

It's about the intrinsic value of human life. If you start deciding that some humans will be used in medical research and others won't be, you are stating that some humans are more valuable than another.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

It's about the intrinsic value of human life. If you start deciding that some humans will be used in medical research and others won't be, you are stating that some humans are more valuable than another.

isn't there organ donation and the use of corpses for mdeical research already?

 

[War Lord]

isn't there organ donation and the use of corpses for mdeical research already?

I don't oppose organ donation or corpse research because they are done with the consent of the person. I'll rethink my position when we can get embryoes to sign consent forms.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I don't oppose organ donation or corpse research because they are done with the consent of the person. I'll rethink my position when we can get embryoes to sign consent forms.

so you'd rather people go without cures, even though the fetus is dead? wouldn't this contradict your "sanctity of life "argument?

 

[War Lord]

so you'd rather people go without cures, even though the fetus is dead? wouldn't this contradict your "sanctity of life "argument?

No, because I wouldn't use sick people for medical research anyway. I'm all for curing everything under the sun, but I don't believe in experimenting on humans to do it.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

No, because I wouldn't use sick people for medical research anyway. I'm all for curing everything under the sun, but I don't believe in experimenting on humans to do it.

no....not sick...DEAD, the fetuses are already dead.

 

[War Lord]

no....not sick...DEAD, the fetuses are already dead.

So what?

It's the principle that humans shouldn't be experimented upon in any form.

 

[The Overlord]

It's about the intrinsic value of human life. If you start deciding that some humans will be used in medical research and others won't be, you are stating that some humans are more valuable than another.

First of all if some fetuses die or are "aborted" by natural causes how would hurt anyone to use these cells in medical research? They fetus is already dead, so who is it hurting, except the 4 year old who is dying of terminal that could be cured by research, but is going to die instead so you can stick to your illogical principal. Bravo.

Also ultimately it doesn't matter, if you or I or anyone else here likes or dislikes abortion, its not going to become illegal anytime soon. Personally I think abortion is far too much of a messy subject, so frankly I have no real opinion on it. However I am a pratical individual, pratically speaking since abortions are happening anyway, whether you like or not, why not use cells from the festuses in medical research? They are going to get aborted either way, so what's the harm in using these aborted festuses' cells to promote medical research that could save the lives of many people in the future?

 

[War Lord]

First of all if some fetuses die or are "aborted" by natural causes how would hurt anyone to use these cells in medical research? They fetus is already dead, so who is it hurting, except the 4 year old who is dying of terminal that could be cured by research, but is going to die instead so you can stick to your illogical principal. Bravo.

Also ultimately it doesn't matter, if you or I or anyone else here likes or dislikes abortion, its not going to become illegal anytime soon. Personally I think abortion is far too much of a messy subject, so frankly I have no real opinion on it. However I am a pratical individual, pratically speaking since abortions are happening anyway, whether you like or not, why not use cells from the festuses in medical research? They are going to get aborted either way, so what's the harm in using these aborted festuses' cells to promote medical research that could save the lives of many people in the future?

It's the principle. Either humans have an untouchable intrinsic value or we are just tools and to be used by the strong.

 

[The Overlord]

So what?

It's the principle that humans shouldn't be experimented upon in any form.

No its like using body parts from a corpse to conducted medical research. If fetus is is already dead because of medical complications, it isn't alive in any sense of the word, it would be dead and since its not alive anymore we're not experimenting on ahuman being, at best we're exiperimenting on a clump of cells, at worst we're experimenting on a corpse.

Why is a dead fetus more important than curing a 4 year old with a terminal disease?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

So what?

It's the principle that humans shouldn't be experimented upon in any form.

DEAD humans have been experimented upon for ages, so there's no principle to it.

 

[War Lord]

DEAD humans have been experimented upon for ages, so there's no principle to it.

Doesn't make it right.

 

[War Lord]

No its like using body parts from a corpse to conducted medical research. If fetus is is already dead because of medical complications, it isn't alive in any sense of the word, it would be dead and since its not alive anymore we're not experimenting on ahuman being, at best we're exiperimenting on a clump of cells, at worst we're experimenting on a corpse.

Why is a dead fetus more important than curing a 4 year old with a terminal disease?

You're defining some people as less valuable than others and that concerns me.

Dead or alive, it still has intrinsic value.

 

[The Overlord]

It's the principle. Either humans have an untouchable intrinsic value or we are just tools and to be used by the strong.

Every rule has exceptions, rule without exceptions often become so rigid that they are rendered useless.

The fact is if a fetus is already dead, its already dead, you can't save it and its likely just going to be disposed of anyway. So if the experimenting on a dead fetuses cells could provided a cure to a 4 year old with terminal disease, how does it promote life to this child die by not experimenting on something that is already dead?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Doesn't make it right.

and as soon as reverend falwell decries it, and somebody comes up with legislation against it, the whole stem cell research won't be just two faced hypocrisy.
how exactly do you suggest that med students get their knowledge of the human body if NOT from corpses?

 

[The Overlord]

You're defining some people as less valuable than others and that concerns me.

Dead or alive, it still has intrinsic value.

Yes, I tend to put the well being of people who are alive, above those are dead, because their dead. Whether you believe in the after life or not, the body is merely an empyt shell, its not alive so it doesn't hurt anyone or destory the value of life to experiment on a corpse, because its not alive.

Why should we allow people to suffer and die to protect the "life value" of a corpse? That's completely illogical.

 

[Anita18]

I have this strange way of justifying research on animals. I love animals, but I've also personally used them for research. I don't know why that's okay with me. (Note that I said, "okay" and not "fun." Killing animals is never any fun, even for scientists who've done it for years.) I guess it's because we're using their bodies for knowledge, to seek truth. There's something amazing about bodies and cells and what they're able to do. Like Native Americans who thanked the spirits of the animals they killed for food, I try to give respect and reverence for the lives sacrificed in our quest for knowledge.

I don't believe in the life value of a corpse. To me, the body is just a vessel for one's soul - the essence of a person. When one is dead, the soul is already gone and the body is of no use to that soul anymore. What makes people human isn't the physical stuff, but the stuff within, and that can't be quantified after death. I'm all for cremation.

 

[Themanofbat]

It's the principle. Either humans have an untouchable intrinsic value or we are just tools and to be used by the strong.

Well, now I have a better understanding why you'd be so against it.

t: t: t:

 

[War Lord]

Well, now I have a better understanding why you'd be so against it.

t: t: t:

Tool.

 

[Themanofbat]

Tool.

 

[Dangerous]

I hate Falwell

 

[Dangerous]

I hate Falwell