Rewriting Spider-Man 3: Input Welcome

[Adamlee]

Alexia, you never explained why Brock hates Spiderman in your outline. You go from meeting Brock, to Brock taking a picture of Spiderman, to him bodybuilding and wanting revenge. I am a bit confused.

 

[Alexia Dark]

Yeah, I left out some detail because I wasn't sure how it happened in the comics. I know they'll have a bit of an argument, and Spidey will have something to do with Eddie's photos being discredited. I'm just not sure how yet.

 

[Victarion]

Honestly, I'd just rewrite Brock's motivation. For me, Sam's was better than the comics. I'm sure you could think of something. The movie novelization made him out to be a bit of a stalker towards the end. Have you read it?

 

[Alexia Dark]

There was no difference... besides getting dumped by a girl whom he apparently didn't care much about if his only response to her clinging for dear life 40 stories in the air was to take a picture and act completely calm.

I'd rather he just have complete and total hate of Spider-Man for ruining his career.

 

[Adamlee]

I didn't see what the motivation was for Brock in the novelization Morzan can you elaborare for us?

And here is the lowdown on Venom's reason in the comics for hating Spidey:

Brock had been a successful columnist for the newly revived Daily Globe until he began writing a series of articles about the "Sin-Eater murders". A bogus offender had confessed to Brock about committing the murders. While protecting the "murderer’s" identity under the First Amendment, Brock wrote a series of stories in the Globe detailing his dialogue with the supposed killer, until mounting pressure from the authorities forced him to write an exclusive revealing the murderer's name. Although that edition of the paper sold out immediately, Spider-Man soon revealed the true identity of the Sin-Eater to be Detective Stan Carter, making Brock a laughingstock among his fellow journalists. Fired from the Daily Globe, he was forced to write venomous drivel for scandal newspapers. Brock's wife left him, and his future appeared to be over. Brock blamed his predicament on Spider-Man.

Soon after, Brock began an intense physical workout program hoping to reduce the stress his life had become. However, such physical exertions only increased his violent obsession with Spider-Man. Although his body had been honed to near-perfection, Brock’s mind was reduced to an all-consuming vessel of hatred. It was this fierce emotion that attracted the empathic parasite. In order to survive, the alien costume had to feed off the nearest and greatest source of emotion. The symbiote joined mentally and physically with Brock, whose emotions overwhelmed the already confused alien. The dominant thought on both their minds was that of Spider-Man. But Brock’s sheer hatred for the crime fighter twisted the symbiote’s feelings to a similar extent. In effect, Brock’s emotions drove the symbiote insane, just as their bonding may have driven Brock over the edge. Brock soon discovered that the costume gave him all the powers of Spider-Man, and more. It also added bulk to his already large frame and increased his strength to superhuman levels. Calling himself "Venom," Brock directed the costume to sprout a hideous grin and plotted his revenge. Through the costume, Venom learned a great deal about Spider-Man, including his secret identity.


So there ya go. I think we may take that approach, except for Brock won't have a wife. And yes Alexia it looks like we are bringing Gwen into the mix. But don't fret. It is going to be good methinks.

 

[Alexia Dark]

I knew the gist of that. The whole Sin-Eater subplot would be a bit time-consuming, and ultimately not really neccessary. Just have Spidey get a bit mad at Brock trying to set him up to look bad, then have Spidey force a confession from a thug in front of him and the cops, so Spidey would, in a way, be deliberately ruining Eddie's career.

 

[englishtrebor]

Are you suggesting this to us or is this what you're doing for your story?

Oh, and we've pretty much finished outlining our story and are going to begin a scene-by-scene treatment of the screenplay today. After planning, it'll be smooth sailing....... I think.

 

[Alexia Dark]

Hmm... both, I guess. I know what I want to see, and I just wanted to see if anyone else would made something similar sooner than I could write it.

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

To be honest your story lacks a lot of the emotional content and heart that made Spider-Man 3 as great as it was. It's just not as powerful as the Raimi-Sargent-Raimi story.

 

[Alexia Dark]

It's an outline. There's not much emotion that can be explained in an outline. And what emotions from SM3 are you refering too? The giddy dancing, the 'oh noes my face blowed up', or 'Sorry I sort of maybe accidentally shot your uncle. Butter fingers. I stole for my daughter, who is in this movie all of 2 minutes, and mentioned all of 4'?

And I promised to try to stop hijacking the thread... if anyone wants to talk, please PM me...

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

It's an outline. There's not much emotion that can be explained in an outline. And what emotions from SM3 are you refering too? The giddy dancing, the 'oh noes my face blowed up', or 'Sorry I sort of maybe accidentally shot your uncle. Butter fingers. I stole for my daughter, who is in this movie all of 2 minutes, and mentioned all of 4'?

And I promised to try to stop hijacking the thread... if anyone wants to talk, please PM me...

You're trying to improve upon the original film, no? So far I don't see it happening. Where's the original had a moralizing story behind it, I don't see a good equivelent in your story.

 

[Alexia Dark]

Not every movie has to have a central, all-encompassing theme. And believe me, there's plenty of themes going on. If you don't see any 'improvement' in the story, fine, that's your opinon. But you should know that the vast majority of what I wrote happened in the comics, so you're also disapproving of the source material, as well. For the record, I thought that the 'emotion' and 'theme' of SM3 was the most forced I had ever seen, and the movie itself a creative failure.

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

Not every movie has to have a central, all-encompassing theme. And believe me, there's plenty of themes going on. If you don't see any 'improvement' in the story, fine, that's your opinon. But you should know that the vast majority of what I wrote happened in the comics, so you're also disapproving of the source material, as well. For the record, I thought that the 'emotion' and 'theme' of SM3 was the most forced I had ever seen, and the movie itself a creative failure.

For one, I don't read or know much about American comics and I really don't care if you go by them or not (American comics allow for multi-interpetations and continuities so actually differing slightly from them isn't much of a sin as you seem to be making it out to be).

While the only problems I had with the movie were time cuts and the such I don't have the youth left in me to argue over whether or not the film was a well-written story or worse then poop on a stick selling for five dollars per pound.

I suggest you go into this venture holding dearly the one truth: The film will be a hard task to rewrite.

 

[englishtrebor]

It doesn't matter how faithful a piece of work is to its original material. If you take a comic book story and make it a movie without trying to add some emotional connection that wasn't there before, you're simply writing a story that someone already wrote. To follow the comics so faithfully would be to write a daytime serial. To write a movie, there MUST be a relative theme and a story that is resolved within the film without regard to the sequels. If you want a good movie, anyway.

Spider-Man 3 was all about the fact that everybody makes mistakes. Even if Spider-Man saves the city, he's not better then everyone. He doesn't get to ignore his girlfriend. He doesn't get to kill people he thinks deserve to die. In the movie, Peter is full of himself and gets carried away, Eddie wants revenge on the man who ruined his life, and Sandman made mistakes that he thought were justified by his desperation. Nothing is justified and in the end, it was all about the choices we make. Given immense power (the symbiote), people are corrupted by their personal issues, shown in both Peter and Eddie. Peter abandons his power, chooses the path of forgiveness, and his burdens are lifted. Eddie keeps his power, chooses the path of revenge, and his addiction to power becomes his own undoing. In the end, Peter and Sandman put their differences aside, Peter and Harry forgive each other, and Peter and Mary Jane renew their relationship. After everything that's happened to them, in a world where it seems right to punch someone back after they punch you, they make the difficult decision of letting go of their grudges, and they are enlightened to find they made the right choice.

I think this movie is emotional deep and managed to stick to the comics in a lot of ways. It has flaws, but it is very deserving of respect.

 

[Adamlee]

I agree with Englishtrebor. All comic book films take some sort of detour and add in emotional elements. It adds depth.

And Alexia, with all due respect, if you're not gonna discuss ideas for the script we are writing then your outline probably belongs elsewhere. I mean that as politely as possible and don't want you to leave. But this thread was started as a way to give other members a chance to provide input into what I think will be an awesome script. Thank you so much.

 

[Adamlee]

Hey everyone, we are working on trying to get a scene by scene short treatment so you can all see it. But I wanna know this: Would you rather us put an outline of what happens right now or just dish out the script 5 pages at a time so it doesn't ruin the suspense?

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

I'd go with maybe an outline for now.

 

[Redwoods Wolf]

Here is what I would recommend:
Focus on Peter, Harry, and Eddie. Eliminate as many superfluous characters as possible.

Start with Eddie (as a mid-to-late thirties married man) coming to work for the Bugle. He's too old to be idealistic, but he still believes that the basic rules of law and order function--there isn't a need for vigilantes.

I liked the NYC loving Spider-Man thread, so I'd put that in there, but not to have Spider-Man kiss Gwen. Just to fuel Harry's hatred (This guy gets applauded even as he covers up the blood on his hands?) and give Eddie a negative vibe. Not raging hatred, mind you, just a "this isn't how it's done and I'm uncomfortable with it."

Peter decides to publish a book of Spidey photographs to aid his financial situation and give him some leverage with JJ. JJ is naturally unhappy with this once he finds out, and sends Eddie on a Spidey smear campaign. Also, he wants Eddie to find anything he can about this new ring of thugs that have popped up, terrorists for hire. Eddie promises to do what he can.

Peter proposes to MJ and she gleefully accepts. Harry catches wind of this/happens to be present and is furious. He becomes Goblin Junior.

Enter the symbiote. I prefer the space shuttle idea (particularly since JJ's son was introduced in Spidey 2), but a meteor shower works, as long as there's a build-up of some sort. It finds/becomes attached to Spidey somehow, perhaps after combat with Harry.

Peter becomes increasingly stressed with the approaching wedding, competition from Brock, and, naturally, his best friend turning against him. Harry himself is ambivalent over his new role--the stakes and consequences are higher than he realized. Does he really want to become a killer?

Peter bonds with the symbiote, and finds Edde Brock,who's been tailing him. Destroying his film, he tells Brock to give a message to Jameson: The kid gloves are off. He's not going to fight criminals any more, he's going to break them. And if the Bugle keeps harassing him like this...well...

Fighting crime becomes a dark pleasure for Spidey as he discovers increasing levels of strength and rage he never knew he had. He takes a sample to Dr. Connors to be analyzed. Connors reveals that it is a symbiote, one that amplifies the strengths of its partner and diminishing the weaknesses. It intends to bond permanently. Peter is troubled by this, but the pros seem to outweigh the cons. He's becoming invicible. The only potential weaknesses, Connor tells him, are to loud noise and perhaps fire.

Eddie is quietly appalled that Spider-Man is taking so much control and getting away with it. Jameson has threatened to fire him for not getting the goods on the wallcrawler, and thanks to the financial situation, his wife thinks it would be a good idea for her to move to her sister's for a while. Eddie pushes himself into a frenzy, trying to find anything to use on Spider-Man. He discovers the terrorists and dangles Spder-Man as bait in front of their noses. They naturally agree to lay a tap and Spider-Man almost gets killed the in explosion. Livid, Spidey drags Eddie and the ringleader to Jameson and gets Brock fired for complicity. Eddie's wife, horrified by what he was willing to do, divorces him right there.

Harry is this close to giving up the mantle of the Goblin when Spider-Man finds him. Furious that Harry stubbornly believes him to be a killer and still rattled from that trap, he decides to show Harry how right he is...and stops within an inch of murdering his best friend. Horrified at what he's doing, he retreats to a nearby church and drives it off with the clamor of the bell. Eddie, realizing he has nothing left and thinking it's best to commit suicide, goes to the church, symbiote finds him: Venom.

Peter, back to his normal self, goes to visit Harry, who tells him he's going to destroy Peter--unravel his life until nothing's left. Eddie has learned from the symbiote that Peter is Spidey and scares MJ half to death. Spider-Man looks around the city for the monster who would do such a thing and is summarily clobbered by Venom. Venom reveals the symbiote is alive, and is quite angry at Peter for deserting it. Spidey manages to escape Venom and moves across town.

Harry, meanwhile, has recovered faster than expected thanks to te Goblin formula, and goes to visit his father's grave. He tells him that he made a vow and he intends to keep it. He sequesters himself in the lab and begins to build.

Peter visits Aunt May and finds Eddie there, ounder the pretense that he's Peter's co-worker. Peter tells Venom to stay away from his aunt, to which Venom cuts to the chase: a battle on the beach tomorrow, no holds-barred, to end it all. If the wallcrawler doesn't show, Venom mows down his friends and family. Spider-Man reluctantly agrees and they part ways.

He tells MJ what's happening and says she'd be better off with Aunt May, at the moment. They have a good-bye kiss before Peter suits up for battle.
But, naturally, on her way out the door, she is kidnapped by the Goblin. Spider-Man follows in high-speed pursuit to the Goblin's lair (warehouse, secret fortess, whatever). Harry ties MJ up, and shows Spider-Man the various incendiaries littered throughout the lair. He goes on to say that any rescue attempt, and he'll trigger them--only by the wallcrawler's suicide will he spare MJ's life. Spider-Man tries to reason with him, telling him about Venom's threat, but GG will have none of it.
They have a fight.

Venom bursts through the wall, (because he followed Spidey, naturally) and there is a smackdown to end all smackdowns between the three of them. When the fight reaches its climax, Harry accidentally triggers the bombs and the place begins to go up in flames. Spidey realizes he has to get the symbiote off Brock and destroy it--he reverts to the ploy used in ASM 312, where he tells the symbiote that he made a mistake in rejecting it and wants it back. The symbiote tries to go back to Peter , spreads itself too thin, and is destroyed in the flames. Spider-Man grabs Brock, webs him up, goes to rescue MJ...and collapses from the smoke and exhaustion. Harry, looking around him, realizes the mess he's made, and pulls everybody's @ss out of the fire, literally. But thanks to the wounds he sustained, he dies shortly thereafter. Eddie is turned over to the police, and thrown into a cell next to the newly revealed ringleader of the terrorists: Cletus Kasady.

Spidey and MJ have one of those swings, happy endings all around (well, except for Harry).

Just my suggestion. Sorry if that was too wordy.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Haha, no. I read most of it. It's pretty good.

 

[Adamlee]

Hey Redwoods, I can assure you we aren't doing the Gwen/Spidey kiss. We are going to veer a bit toward the comics and establish Gwen and M.J. as old friends.

I read your outline and there are definitely some aspects of it that we are doing. Maybe great minds think alike. haha.

We are going to make this a legitimate script for everyone to see. I have Final Draft, which is the software used by the majority of screenwriters. Englishtrebor and I will both be working on the script and I will type it out. Should be awesome.

If you'd like we can send a beginning of the scene by scene breakdown. It is a bit rough and doesn't reveal everything because we decided to focus most of our attention on the script.

 

[englishtrebor]

Sorry that we're taking so long. It's mostly because of me being unreliable (falling asleep at random times, etc).

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

When can we start seeing a few pages?

 

[Adamlee]

I will get with Englishtrebor and we will try to put a few pages on here by Friday.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Anything yet?

 

[Adamlee]

Hey,
we have been trying to make a detailed script treatment but summer college classes have been holding me up. haha.

How does an outline sound? Be prepared, we took some chances with the characters, nothing out of line, but we will talk to everyone about our reasoning. Hope you like it.