Sabretooth Wolverine's half brother?

[Ziggyman]

Brothers...It's kinda cliche...But so badass!

...It says so on Wikipedia...But, whatever!

 

[Savage]

There was a poor lonely What If? floating around that showed later years where a normal human Dog was a corrupt casino runner or some such and yeah, Logan killed him, but it was a terrible story and not really canon so we (as in I) try to pretend that it never existed. I personally love Dog to be Sabes. It makes so much more sense just like the poster above said. I even used it in my own story since it was all too easy to believe. I am glad they went this route.

Wolverine: The End and it wasn't Dog. It was the missing brother. The one that gave their mom her scar and was presumed dead when he was really locked away. Don't remember what happened to Dog though.

 

[squeekness]

Wolverine: The End and it wasn't Dog. It was the missing brother. The one that gave their mom her scar and was presumed dead when he was really locked away. Don't remember what happened to Dog though.

Nope, there was an actual What If? that came out in 2005 named simply Wolverine: What If? It was a one shot written by Daniel Way (prolly why it was so bad), with terrible art by Jon Proctor. This was not the The End mini. That one was actually quite good.

 

[Ryo Jin]

Hmmm...Bringing Kelly Hu back would surely be awesome news.

-TNC

Yuriko is Deathstrike, not Mariko. Unless your post had nothing to do with Peter McCabe's.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I do not think Dog is Sabertooth

The people in Origins are only subconcious placeholders for Wolverines later relationships.

Jean has as much in common with Rose, as Sabertooth does with Dog.

And I think its better off this way. I'd much rather see Creed and Logan meet in the army or something and create a distinctive wolf pack of sorts.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I do not think Dog is Sabertooth

The people in Origins are only subconcious placeholders for Wolverines later relationships.

Jean has as much in common with Rose, as Sabertooth does with Dog.

And I think its better off this way. I'd much rather see Creed and Logan meet in the army or something and create a distinctive wolf pack of sorts.

Apparently Jackman confirmed it, so in the movieverse, Dog is Sabertooth.

And I've never liked the whole subconscious thing. I mean, I really don't need to see Wolverine meet a copy of every person he will meet in the X-men later. I thought it worked okay for the Jean/Rose relationship, but to then go and have him meet someone exactly like Sabertooth? I mean, come on.

Not only that, making Dog Sabertooth adds so much to a character that, lets be honest, has gotten a little stagnant over the years. We need something to make Sabertooth interesting again, and making him Dog would do just that.

For one, it allows us to look at all Sabertooth's reasons for going after Wolverine in a whole new light. Wolverine was the "special" brother. He got everything Sabertooth wanted as a child. He had the father who cared about him, the nice house, warm food, and Rose. And then, Wolverine takes the one thing he had, his father. So now Sabertooth is out to take everything away from Wolverine in revenge.

Or, on a deeper level, Sabertooth may actually care for Logan. But Sabertooth is really screwed up. All he's known his whole life is basically pain and abuse, he really doesn't know how to show anyone affection. So the way he "helps out" Wolverine is by making his life hell, to make him tougher, so Wolverine will always be able to make it in the world. His actions could be a twisted version of brotherly love.

 

[Captain Planet!]

I like to think that Dog is Sabertooth.

 

[storyteller]

Even if you ignore the dna test they did between the two that showed that they were not at all related?

Movie wise i think its okay.

 

[storyteller]

Even if you ignore the dna test they did between the two that showed that they were not at all related?

Movie wise i think its okay.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Let's face it, if comics are a medium where people can come back from the dead, I dare say that there can be a myriad of 'plausible' explanations as to why the dna test results could have been false/faked etc.

 

[sniktsnakt]

Okay, this is cool.

I always liked to think that Dog might've been Creed--but then, what's up with the name change?

<shrugs>

Still . . . .

<freaks out>

Okay, I am getting way to excited for this. I need to go sit somewhere and calm down.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I see no deeper layer that Sabes being Wolvies brother. Its a super cliche that his rival who is basically an evil counterpart (like Spock with a beard) turn out to be his brother. Seriously, unless Rose happens to be JEan grey then why would Dog be Sabertooth.

 

[TheZink]

Hey long time reader first time poster.

I seem to remember a panel in the Origins comic where the old man, John Howlett I, was shown removing his gloves and had the same bone claws as Wolverine/James and John Howlett III. This was when he was telling Rose to get out off the grounds with James/Wolverine.

This would leave me to believe that either John Howlett II was James' biological father, or that Thomas Logan and John Howlett are actually brothers.

 

[Peter McCabe]

The Howletts had no mutant attributes.

The Logans were the mutants.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I see no deeper layer that Sabes being Wolvies brother. Its a super cliche that his rival who is basically an evil counterpart (like Spock with a beard) turn out to be his brother. Seriously, unless Rose happens to be JEan grey then why would Dog be Sabertooth.

If you want a deeper layer, look to my last post, where I specifically detail two ideas about this.

And it makes quite a bit of sense for Dog to be Sabertooth, saying it's like the Rose/Jean relationship is ridiculous.

For one, Sabertooth and Logan have always had extremely similar powers, and have been similar in appearance, (you make Sabes shorter with dark hair, he looks a lot like Logan.) This makes perfect sense if he was his half brother.

Sabertooth and Wolverine have known each other for decades. Sabes has gone out of his way to attack, provoke, and try and destroy anything Logan has ever had in his life. Obviously they have a lot of history, and Logan did something to really piss Sabes off. This would fit in perfectly with the Dog storyline.

And the man who created Sabertooth, Chris Claremont, always intented them to be related, he just had them as father and son instead of half brothers. Dog being Sabertooth fits in perfectly with the established backstory of the character, and as I've already illustrated, would add some much needed depth to Sabertooth.

Storyteller It was never said that Sabes and Logan weren't related, it was only said that Sabertooth wasn't his father.

TheZink
That wasn't old man Howlett's hand, he was actually holding James' hand.

 

[TheZink]

That wasn't old man Howlett's hand, he was actually holding James' hand.

That makes much more sense then.

 

[Juggernaut33]

I always liked the idea that Dog was Victor Creed but I'm really scratching my head over how this relationship will play out.

Think about it. James Howlett is Thomas Logan's biological son. Elizabeth Howlett was having an affair with him. Fine. Thomas kills Henry, James' father. Then James kills Thomas, his real father. That's messed up. But then what happens with Victor Creed? Isn't he suppose to be called Victor Logan? How did he end up calling himself Creed? Or is it Thomas Creed that is father is named? And why would Victor follow Logan into all these wars if he knew he had killed his father? Maybe Victor was only a baby when the events depicted in Origin happened and Logan just took care of him but didn't tell him about his father...

A lot of questions...

 

[Legion]

If Creed = Dog in the comics, how were they able to work so closely together later on? I guess Logan could have suffered memory loss prior to the Weapon X memory implants, but I find that to be more ridiculous than thinking of Dog as a parallel to Sabretooth.

I think making Sabretooth and Logan related is too obvious. I prefer thinking that Origin further showed that Wolverine is man who misfortune follows wherever he goes and can never find peace.

 

[Peter McCabe]

Young Logan is going to lose his memory after killing Thomas.

He will then later encounter Dog - who is now calling himself Victor Creed, and befriend him on the count of their similarities. Logan will have no memory of Dog, specially because they are now grown men and not teenagers.

They fight wars together, kill together, but in the end, Victor/Dog remembers what Logan did to him.

He killed his dad and now its war.

 

[Goodfellas]

So wait in the movie at the begning during the origin scene( or when ever it is during the movie)

will Sabretooth actually be called "dog" during the origin scene?

And i dont remember the origin story that much but isn't Thomas Logan the father who is having an affair with Wolverines Mom and is also Dog;s father? or something like that

 

[TheZink]

And i dont remember the origin story that much but isn't Thomas Logan the father who is having an affair with Wolverines Mom and is also Dog;s father? or something like that

Yeah here is the breakdown from the Origin Comic:

Thomas Logan + Elizabeth = John Howlett III and James Howlett
Thomas Logan + Unknown Woman = "Dog" Logan..and is possibly Victor Creed

John "Old Man" Howlett and John Howlett II are not related to Wolverine or Sabertooth it seems.

 

[cerealkiller182]

If you want a deeper layer, look to my last post, where I specifically detail two ideas about this.

Neither of which are any good, no offense.

The relationship between Sabes and Wolvie is Sabertooth represents what Wolverine is fighting not to become, and Wolvie represents what Sabes could have been. As a result, Wolvie both avoids him but also feels resonsible for him, and Sabertooth as made it his business to taunt and terrorize Wolvie whenever he can. Making them brothers would not change the realtionship at all, so why do it.

And it makes quite a bit of sense for Dog to be Sabertooth, saying it's like the Rose/Jean relationship is ridiculous.

Why? Its exactly what they represented. Its why Wolvie feels an overwhelming attraction to Jean and hatred of Creed, they remind him of a past love and rival.

For one, Sabertooth and Logan have always had extremely similar powers, and have been similar in appearance, (you make Sabes shorter with dark hair, he looks a lot like Logan.) This makes perfect sense if he was his half brother.

Makes as much sense as when Sabes was rumored to be his father. Doesnt make it not stupid.

Wildchild must be the second cousin twice removed

Sabertooth and Wolverine have known each other for decades. Sabes has gone out of his way to attack, provoke, and try and destroy anything Logan has ever had in his life. Obviously they have a lot of history, and Logan did something to really piss Sabes off. This would fit in perfectly with the Dog storyline.

Fit perfectly for a lot of rivals' storyline. The Joker and Batman arnt brothers. They dont need to be. You can hate someone and have lots of history with someone without them being your brother.

And the man who created Sabertooth, Chris Claremont, always intented them to be related, he just had them as father and son instead of half brothers. Dog being Sabertooth fits in perfectly with the established backstory of the character, and as I've already illustrated, would add some much needed depth to Sabertooth.

too little too late. If Claremont had solidfied it back than it would be a different story. Now we are entering soap opera plot twists which never do anyone any good.

 

[Infinity9999x]

If Creed = Dog in the comics, how were they able to work so closely together later on? I guess Logan could have suffered memory loss prior to the Weapon X memory implants, but I find that to be more ridiculous than thinking of Dog as a parallel to Sabretooth.

I think making Sabretooth and Logan related is too obvious. I prefer thinking that Origin further showed that Wolverine is man who misfortune follows wherever he goes and can never find peace.

Well, if we're talking about the comics then I'd assume it would have worked out like this.

Sabes tracks down Logan out in Canada. After the ensuing fight in which Sabes gets his marbles knocked out and Rose is accidentally killed by Logan, Logan runs off into the wilderness. It's heavily implied that any extremely traumatic event that happens to Wolverine, his brain tries to "heal" over the memories by basically surpressing them. Since Rose was with him for most of his life, Logan pretty much forgets most of his life.

Now, this is all in the late 1800s/ early 1900s. In the comics Logan and Creed may not have met up again until the Weapon X program, which would have been decades later. Logan wouldn't remember Creed, and Creed may have forgotten, or taken a while to realise, who Logan really was. And they end up getting their memories wiped later anyways.

If we're talking about the movieverse, then Peter McCabe explained it pretty well.

 

[Peter McCabe]

Well, if we're talking about the comics then I'd assume it would have worked out like this.

Sabes tracks down Logan out in Canada. After the ensuing fight in which Sabes gets his marbles knocked out and Rose is accidentally killed by Logan, Logan runs off into the wilderness. It's heavily implied that any extremely traumatic event that happens to Wolverine, his brain tries to "heal" over the memories by basically surpressing them. Since Rose was with him for most of his life, Logan pretty much forgets most of his life.

Now, this is all in the late 1800s/ early 1900s. In the comics Logan and Creed may not have met up again until the Weapon X program, which would have been decades later. Logan wouldn't remember Creed, and Creed may have forgotten, or taken a while to realise, who Logan really was. And they end up getting their memories wiped later anyways.

If we're talking about the movieverse, then Peter McCabe explained it pretty well.

The movie, judging from the Origin elements and Stryker's speech in the trailer will have an underline of revenge.

Wolverine, going out for blood in the name of a woman he thought he loved.

Sabretooth, avenging the death of a man Logan killed a hundred years ago.

The irony being that man was father to both of them.

This is gonna be great.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Neither of which are any good, no offense.

The relationship between Sabes and Wolvie is Sabertooth represents what Wolverine is fighting not to become, and Wolvie represents what Sabes could have been. As a result, Wolvie both avoids him but also feels resonsible for him, and Sabertooth as made it his business to taunt and terrorize Wolvie whenever he can. Making them brothers would not change the realtionship at all, so why do it.

I don't see why either of the options are bad ones, other then the fact that they support a theory you don't like. I think both ideas open up interesting possibilities for the Wolverine/Creed relationship. If you could give me a reason why you think it's a bad idea, other than saying you think it is, then I think I'd understand better.

Now, I have no idea why you think Wolverine feels responsible for Sabertooth, that doesn't make any sense at all. However, there relationship has been one of "dark vs. light" Sabes is what Wolverine could become if he ever chose to stop fighting his dark side. However, writers now a days have all but abandoned that plot of Wolverine fighting against his dark side, showing him being quite content with killing, which makes Sabertooth's character somewhat unneeded.

Making Sabertooth Wolverine's brother would add some more layers to him. We now have a reason that Sabertooth has all this fueled hatred against Wolverine. We also could have alterior motives for Sabertooth's continued obsession with him. Not only that, but the standing theme, of Wolverine somewhat accomplishing to shed his dark side, would add onto the other layers I've discussed. Sabertooth already has that hatred of being the "second hand" brother. Wolverine always got everything he wanted, and now Wolverine looks like he's achieved what Sabertooth thought that both of them wouldn't, shedding his animalistic side.

Why? Its exactly what they represented. Its why Wolvie feels an overwhelming attraction to Jean and hatred of Creed, they remind him of a past love and rival.



Makes as much sense as when Sabes was rumored to be his father. Doesnt make it not stupid.

Wildchild must be the second cousin twice removed

Because Jean and Rose, while similar, were still different. Jean didn't go out of her way to protect and be a big sister figure to Wolverine. Dog on the other hand, acted exactly the way Sabertooth was, looked like Sabertooth, has an abusive father like Sabertooth, and had a history that would fit into Sabertooth's backstory perfectly.

Besides that, Wolverine would have to meet Sabertooth within the next few years after running off into the wilderness, since they both have memories of eachother many years before their Weapon X days. (We could debate on weather or not these memories are fabricated, but that wouldn't get us anywhere since the writers keep saying they did and didn't happen as of late.) But what are the odds that Logan escapes Dog, then a year or two later runs into someone who
*looks Just like him,
*acts just like him
*and is obsessed with Wolverine, Just like dog!

Fit perfectly for a lot of rivals' storyline. The Joker and Batman arnt brothers. They dont need to be. You can hate someone and have lots of history with someone without them being your brother.

That's completely different. Batman and Joker have been in culture for years yes, but in terms of comic time they've known eachother for 10, maybe 15 years max. Wolverine and Sabertooth have a history going back decades, over half a century even, depending on the writer. Since Origins gave us a character who looks like Sabertooth, acts like Sabertooth, and (if revealed to be Sabertooth) explains why Sabertooth is the way he is today, I see no reason why Dog being Sabertooth is a bad idea.