Is Sabretooth the son of Dog Logan?

[Logan's Runt]

I'm just tired of comic fans only being able/wanting to believe the simplest answer. Writers write to their audience, and if the fans want soap opera like predictable twists, that's what they'll write. Its like nobody can handle slightly complex character relations.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I'm just tired of comic fans only being able/wanting to believe the simplest answer. Writers write to their audience, and if the fans want soap opera like predictable twists, that's what they'll write. Its like nobody can handle slightly complex character relations.

Well, if that's what you think about it that's fine, but don't try to say that it's completely crazy for anyone to assume that Dog is Sabertooth. There's lots of evidence to support that theory. It's not comparable to the Jean Grey/Rose example, because those two characters only shared red-hair. They're personalities were slightly similar, but that was it.

I disagree with it being soap opera-like. I think Sabertooth being Logan's half brother adds that much more complexity to the character. It also shows that Sabertooth's hatred of Logan has been long running and has many reasons, besides one big even setting it up. It's been building since they were children.

Not only that, it adds a tragic layer to the mix. They were friends as children, but because of an abusive father and events that happened beyond their control they became enemies, and they've been trying to kill each other ever since.

 

[Logan's Runt]

Well, if that's what you think about it that's fine, but don't try to say that it's completely crazy for anyone to assume that Dog is Sabertooth. There's lots of evidence to support that theory. It's not comparable to the Jean Grey/Rose example, because those two characters only shared red-hair. They're personalities were slightly similar, but that was it.

I disagree with it being soap opera-like. I think Sabertooth being Logan's half brother adds that much more complexity to the character. It also shows that Sabertooth's hatred of Logan has been long running and has many reasons, besides one big even setting it up. It's been building since they were children.

Not only that, it adds a tragic layer to the mix. They were friends as children, but because of an abusive father and events that happened beyond their control they became enemies, and they've been trying to kill each other ever since.

Replace 'completely crazy' with 'willfully simple minded' then.

Just because Dog's story would make a good Sabes doesn't make it so, and the fact that Sabes' history hasn't been explained entirely doesn't mean that it has to be construed elsewhere.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Replace 'completely crazy' with 'willfully simple minded' then.

Just because Dog's story would make a good Sabes doesn't make it so, and the fact that Sabes' history hasn't been explained entirely doesn't mean that it has to be construed elsewhere.

Oh I know that. I'm not trying to say that Dog is Sabertooth for sure either. I'm just saying that there's evidence to support it as a good theory.

I'm open to the idea that Sabertooth has a different origin, I just personally like him as Dog more. To me it makes him more interesting then if he was a crazy guy who got mad at being rejected by a girl, or any other reason. I think it adds complexity to the character, and adds more depth to him.


To me, making him just a crazy guy who decided to hate Logan for one reason or another makes him more one-dimensional. It makes the character stagnant. If he was Dog, then we see that at one point he wasn't a bad person, but through the influence of his father and his jealousy for Logan, he was twisted into the man he is today.

The brother aspect gives them another dynamic to play off. Maybe Sabertooth (somewhere deep down in his warped mind somewhere) really likes Logan, and has that "older brother" affection for him, but because he's so messed up, and because the only thing he knew for most of his childhood was violence, the only way he can show his affection for Logan is violence. Maybe the "birthday gift" of tracking Logan down every year just to show he can, is actually meant to be a gift as well as a threat.

It just gives you more angles to examine the character with, and especially now, Sabertooth needs something new added to his character. He's become stale.

So really, I'd have to disagree with you, I think it's only a simple-minded origin if you want to make it that way. You just have to look at it with a more creative edge.

 

[Logan's Runt]

Oh I know that. I'm not trying to say that Dog is Sabertooth for sure either. I'm just saying that there's evidence to support it as a good theory.

I'm open to the idea that Sabertooth has a different origin, I just personally like him as Dog more. To me it makes him more interesting then if he was a crazy guy who got mad at being rejected by a girl, or any other reason. I think it adds complexity to the character, and adds more depth to him.


To me, making him just a crazy guy who decided to hate Logan for one reason or another makes him more one-dimensional. It makes the character stagnant. If he was Dog, then we see that at one point he wasn't a bad person, but through the influence of his father and his jealousy for Logan, he was twisted into the man he is today.

The brother aspect gives them another dynamic to play off. Maybe Sabertooth (somewhere deep down in his warped mind somewhere) really likes Logan, and has that "older brother" affection for him, but because he's so messed up, and because the only thing he knew for most of his childhood was violence, the only way he can show his affection for Logan is violence. Maybe the "birthday gift" of tracking Logan down every year just to show he can, is actually meant to be a gift as well as a threat.

It just gives you more angles to examine the character with, and especially now, Sabertooth needs something new added to his character. He's become stale.

So really, I'd have to disagree with you, I think it's only a simple-minded origin if you want to make it that way. You just have to look at it with a more creative edge.

You're an exception, then, in that you have a well developed reason for believing/wanting Dog to be Sabes, and kudos for that. I suppose what I'm frustrated with is fans who don't have any reasoning for Dog being Sabes other than 'dood he totally looks like him!!11'

Kudos also for not takin' my bait. t:

 

[Balthus Dire]

None of the "facts" anyone has provided prove that Dog is Sabretooth at all.

Just because another writer could play on some of the similarities of the two characters doesn't mean the character is Sabretooth. That would be making Dog into Sabretooth, which in itself is friggin lame anyway. He wasn't intended to be Sabretooth, thus he is not Sabretooth.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You're an exception, then, in that you have a well developed reason for believing/wanting Dog to be Sabes, and kudos for that. I suppose what I'm frustrated with is fans who don't have any reasoning for Dog being Sabes other than 'dood he totally looks like him!!11'

Kudos also for not takin' my bait. t:

No problem, I try to keep a level head in a debate. I find that people respond better when you don't flame them.

I can understand the frustration, wanting him to be Sabertooth just because he looks like him isn't a very good reason, and it certainly wouldn't be a very good argument if that's the only reason people wanted him to be Sabertooth.

None of the "facts" anyone has provided prove that Dog is Sabretooth at all.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not trying to convince you that Dog is Sabertooth, I was stating the various themes and similarities the two characters have that support the theory Dog could be Sabertooth. I only view it as a theory, not a fact.

Just because another writer could play on some of the similarities of the two characters doesn't mean the character is Sabretooth. That would be making Dog into Sabretooth, which in itself is friggin lame anyway. He wasn't intended to be Sabretooth, thus he is not Sabretooth.

That's flawed Logic. Sabertooth was intended to be Logan's father, yet he's not. Just because Dog wasn't intended to be Sabertooth doesn't mean he's not. The writer himself said this. If you think it's lame for Sabertooth to be Dog, then that's fine, that's your opinion. I just disagree with it, for the reasons I posted above.

I think that making Dog Sabertooth offers the character of Sabertooth more opportunities, and a way to be more creative with the character. It opens more paths, and you have to admit, the character has gotten stale in the past few years. Part of this is because of the writers, and it's also partly because his character hasn't been offered any growth. I see this as a way to creatively add layers to Sabertooth.

That's why I prefer to think of him as Dog.

 

[Ken]

You cant make people think what you think, thats all im learning evey day on these boards. If it makes you happpy to think Dog and Sabertooth are two diffrent people then be happy.

Ill go on beliveing all the facts that were presented to me in comics. Lets face it this connection has been coming since 91. Since 91 the discusion everyone had because it was hinted in a early wolverine issue was is sabertooth his father or brother. So ill belive hes his brother since orgin showed me that.

now everyone smile

 

[hannibalistic]

Dog being Sabertooth would be a slap in the face to all comic fans... What is so complex about sabertooth being logans half brother? what does it add to sabes character? other than the fact that he needs a hug... it doesnt add any type of depth to wolverines character and dumbs-down sabertooth.... and the scars on his face kinda kill it for him too... dog was a grown man by the time he tracked down logan in origins....

 

[TheVileOne]

Obviously Sabretooth and Wolverine have a long deep seeded connection with each other. I know Runt doesn't like it when stories connect, but in this case they have to.

Also regarding Logan's memories. Remember he HAS NO FAKE MEMORIES ANYMORE. Logan knows the truth about all his past now remember?

The hatred between Logan and Sabretooth was originally fabricated. It was built on the idea that Sabretooth killed Logan's lover, Silver Fox. But that NEVER HAPPENED! OK it did, but Silver Fox wasn't actually killed until later when she and Logan were not together. So basically the original idea of their hatred is a false one. So in order for the hatred to be truly legitimate it has to go back even further and be even deeper than the fake Silver Fox memory.

The way I see it, Jenkins doesn't outright deny Dog being Sabretooth. He merely says that was not his intent, but I truly find that hard to believe. Writers don't always tell the truth. But his response could also mean, if editorial really wanted Dog to be Sabretooth, then Dog could be Sabretooth. And you can't say it doesn't make sense with all the messed up crap that happens in the MU EVERY YEAR.

Until proven otherwise, I sincerely believe that Dog Logan and Sabretooth are one and the same.

Also Logan's Runt who is the hot lady in your av?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Dog being Sabertooth would be a slap in the face to all comic fans... What is so complex about sabertooth being logans half brother? what does it add to sabes character? other than the fact that he needs a hug... it doesnt add any type of depth to wolverines character and dumbs-down sabertooth.... and the scars on his face kinda kill it for him too... dog was a grown man by the time he tracked down logan in origins....

You obviously haven't read the thread. I addressed all those points already. But I'll post them again anyways.

For one, Dog's scar could be explained away in multiple ways. Mutants come fully into their powers at different times. Yes, most form them at puberty, but just like the kid that doesn't grow until college, Sabertooth's mutation might not have fully manifested until he was older.

Also, Dog may have already had a slightly advanced healing ability, but only one that could heal cuts and scars quickly into scars, and it was not yet powerful enough to completely heal deep tissue damage like scarring.

Dog Being Sabertooth opens up many possibilities for character growth. The brother aspect gives them another dynamic to play off. Maybe Sabertooth (somewhere deep down in his warped mind somewhere) really likes Logan, and has that "older brother" affection for him, but because he's so messed up, and because the only thing he knew for most of his childhood was violence, the only way he can show his affection for Logan is violence. Maybe the "birthday gift" of tracking Logan down every year just to show he can, is actually meant to be a gift as well as a threat.

Also, going with the idea that Sabertooth has that "brotherly" affection for Logan, Sabertooth could be constantly attacking him to make sure Logan's "tough enough" to make it in the world. Of course, since Sabertooth's life was pretty horrible, he's even worse on Logan so Logan can take more then Sabertooth can. It's kind of like how fathers can show "tough love" to a child. This is just an extreme version of that.

Really, if I were the writer, I'd explore the love, hate, and jealousy relationship the two share as brothers. Also, this would give more of a reason as to why Sabertooth does the things he does. He'd actually have reasons for his actions instead of just being crazy.

 

[storm-x-fan]

This is a theory I've had since I read Origin. Lookin back at some older Wolverine comics also led me to this conclusion.

First there's the obvious physical resemblance between Sabretooth and Wolverine, that even extends to their costumes. Then there's the healing factor which they both possess, which has also allowed them to battle each other for an entire century. And finally there's the first blood Sabretooth layed on Wolverine by killing Silver Fox (supposedly).

Now, Claremont intended Wolverine to be Sabretooth's son, but that was left undefined and it was long before Origin. I feel, what better reason for Sabretooth to wage eternal war on Wolverine, than to hold him responsible for the death of his father?

Since Wolverine suffered his second case of amnesia after the death of Rose, this would explain why he wouldn't feel threatened by Sabretooth's appearance during their first fight (Wolverine Vol. I #10). Had he not forgotten about Dog, he woulda spotted the resemblance and immediately confronted his gigantic neighbor. The question would now be, how did Sabretooth track Logan down after so many years of seclusion in the wilderness in the 1920s? Specially because he had never seen him. Well during Origin, Logan earned the name Wolverine and killed Dog in front of many beguiled spectators. This gave Sabretooth three things to go by: A man called Logan (like his father), also known as Wolverine, that killed his father with 3 claws (which match the scar on Dog's face). The ironic thing is, that this would indicate Logan has never truly known why Sabretooth is his ultimate enemy. Forcing him to simply deem Sabretooth a heartless killer. I think Wolverine made him, and Sabretooth swore revenge, forever.

I'm really lookin forward to seeing what the connection between Wolverine and Sabretooth will be in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and specifically what the connection between Dog Logan and Sabretooth will be.

I believe Aaron Jeffery is playing Dog Logan...

-TL

i havent read the comics and i aint sure, but what u say can be true...

 

[mightiest_mortal]

Umm Dogs not Sabretooth. We've actually seen glimpses of Sabretooths childhood before (dont ask me issue numbers.. i dont remember numbers). His dad locked him in his basement and fed him live animals.

Also, theyve been blood tested before and proved to be completely unrelated (this was back when people thought Sabretooth might have been Logans father)

 

[squeekness]

Umm Dogs not Sabretooth. We've actually seen glimpses of Sabretooths childhood before (dont ask me issue numbers.. i dont remember numbers). His dad locked him in his basement and fed him live animals.

Also, theyve been blood tested before and proved to be completely unrelated (this was back when people thought Sabretooth might have been Logans father)

Yes, but those memories of hsi childhood could be just as fabricated as Logan's old ones were since they both went through the Weapon X wringer. Sabretooth's true origin is still up for grabs for any talented writer.

 

[Congo Jack]

Dog MIGHT be Sabretooth. There is no definitive answer.

Umm Dogs not Sabretooth. We've actually seen glimpses of Sabretooths childhood before (dont ask me issue numbers.. i dont remember numbers). His dad locked him in his basement and fed him live animals.

Also, theyve been blood tested before and proved to be completely unrelated (this was back when people thought Sabretooth might have been Logans father)

Both plot points from when Larry Hama was writing amazing Wolverine comics. I'm a fan of them being related though.

Either of those points that you bring up are easily retconned by anyone with enough clout at Marvel.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

Sure,, they could say it was all memory implants... and the blood test was fabricated.. but hell they could say all of peter parkers memories have been fabricated and that hes secretly related to wolverine too.,... Pete doesnt know his parents.. and has a thing for Redheads! What more proof could there be that him + Wolvie are related.






....who am i kidding. Marvel's done retcons a lot worse than that would be.

 

[squeekness]

I personally like the idea of them being related and in my fanfic, Sabes is Dog, but I wrote that part long before they finally came out and said that the DNA showed them to be unrelated.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I personally like the idea of them being related and in my fanfic, Sabes is Dog, but I wrote that part long before they finally came out and said that the DNA showed them to be unrelated.

The DNA showed them to not be Father and Son, it was still open that they could be brothers or half brothers, or even cousins.

 

[squeekness]

I'm pretty sure Henry said it wasn't a familial match at all so brothers or half brothers would be out.

 

[Congo Jack]

I was talking about Wolverine #42. What comic are you referring to?

 

[Infinity9999x]

The comic I'm remembering is when Nick Fury came out and said that Sabes wasn't Logan's dad, but that's all he told him. That's the one I remember.

 

[Congo Jack]

The comic I'm remembering is when Nick Fury came out and said that Sabes wasn't Logan's dad, but that's all he told him. That's the one I remember.

Me too. I can't recall a seperate instance when Henry (Beast, right?) is talking to Wolverine about any relation between him and Sabretooth.

 

[squeekness]

Logan outright said they were unrelated in the first issue of the arc where he kills Sabes, out on the front lawn of Xavier's, when the fight begins. I just can't remember the issue number. 50 maybe?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Logan outright said they were unrelated in the first issue of the arc where he kills Sabes, out on the front lawn of Xavier's, when the fight begins. I just can't remember the issue number. 50 maybe?

Wait, is that the arc that Loeb wrote? The one where he tries to say that Logan and Sabes are descended from Wolves? I don't even aknowlege that arc, that idea was horrible.

 

[TheVileOne]

Like ridiculous contradictions and retcons have never happened before in Marvel Comics of all things .