Schumacher's movies are NOT sequels to Burtons films

[Cunning Stunts]

I completely agree that they are not sequels. In Burton's films, Harvey Dent is black, in Schumacher's films, Harvey is white. In Burton's world, Jack Napier killed Bruce Wayne's parents, in Schumacher's world, it was Harvey Dent. And to screw more things up, Schumacher decided that it would be a good idea to include Time Square and The Statue of Liberty in Gotham City. Does that make any sense at all? No.

Where in the hell in Batman Forever did it say that Two-Face killed Batman's parents?

Also, two different people played Rachel in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Big deal.

 

[Ryan]

I always viewed the Schumacher films as sequels to the Burton films as they came so close on the heels of one another. I know that in soap operas they recast "characters" with new actors and they don't consider that to be a reboot of the series. Also, I'm almost positive that I saw a biography of Keaton that stated he had been offered the role in the Schumacher films for an obscene amount of money but had turned it down, thus meaning that either WB or Schumacher had intended these as sequels. Also mainstays such as Gordon and Alfred stayed the same. I don't consider the Nolan films as sequels because so much time has passed between films and he has also totally redone all of the characters. I couldn't imagine the first Alfred running around in these films On a side note, has anyone done a thread on BB and TDK nods to the original Batman movie series? Stuff like the "I'm Batman" statement coming from both characters upon their introduction in both films. Just wondered.

 

[union_jak]

I completely agree that they are not sequels. In Burton's films, Harvey Dent is black, in Schumacher's films, Harvey is white. In Burton's world, Jack Napier killed Bruce Wayne's parents, in Schumacher's world, it was Harvey Dent. And to screw more things up, Schumacher decided that it would be a good idea to include Time Square and The Statue of Liberty in Gotham City. Does that make any sense at all? No.

In Forever Bruce states that a psycho killed his parents, meaning Jack Napier. Harvey Dent had nothing to do with it.

That Statue - Lady Gotham- was supposed to be in tribute to The Statue of Liberty, but not the same one. It's also been seen in the comics and the BTAS cartoon.

 

[TMC1982]

BF and B&R are both sequels to Burton's films, and at the same time, they are not. One might view it as, say, Burton's films happening in Earth-One, and Schumacher's picking up where Burton's left off, but in Earth-Two. Or some other Earth.

You can argue that the Burton-Schumacher films all fit in a very loose or floating continuity like the pre-Daniel Craig James Bond films. Think for instance, OHMSS with George Lazenby. There's a scene in which 007 is sitting at his desk, pulls out a briefcase, and takes out several mementos from his previous adventures (during the Sean Connery era). Also, For Your Eyes Only with Roger Moore and Licence to Kill with Timothy Dalton make vague references to the fact that James Bond was briefly married in OHMSS.

There's also of course, the fact that Pat Hingle and Michael Gough played Commissioner Gordon and Alfred Pennyworth in both (respectively) the Burton and Schumacher films. Much like how Desmond Llewelyn played Q in the Bond films from the Connery era to the Pierce Bronsan era or how Bernard Lee played M in all of the Connery films up until Moonraker with Roger Moore.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Sadly BF and B&R are sequels to Burton's films.

 

[mikey1974]

they are most definitely sequels...just showing Batman/Bruce at different points in his life...

Batman - Bruce just starting out as Bats...considered by most an urban legend...Bruce Wayne is distant,keeping people at arms length as he goes about his business...

Batman Returns - having gotten his revenge,Batman AND Bruce are darker than ever...indeed,Bruce seems to have not much of a purpose in life other than to be Batman...until he meets Selina,his mirror image...and realizes that following the path of revenge will lead him to ruin...

Batman Forever - Bruce and Batman begin to come out of the darkness a bit...indeed,Bruce learns to trust others,to be willing to actually open up to the posibility that love can be a part of his life,as he finally puts his more revenge-oriented focus behind him,and starts to become an actual HERO ...

Batman & Robin - Batman has become the Caped Crusader, the hero of Gotham City ,and Bruce has to deal with having an actual family for the first time since he was a child...

...the whole series shows a metamorphosis,as Bruce changes from awkward recluse,to revenge-obsessed loner,to successful billionaire and "Father" of his own family.....Batman transforms from urban legend,to scary,dark instrument of vengeance, to Super-Hero....

it's actually a natural progression ....not saying it makes Shumacher's films GOOD! just saying it shows on the narrative side a plan was in place to grow the character as the sequels went along...

 

[roach]

why is this still being argued?

 

[mikey1974]

because it's the internet!! people must argue!!

 

[roach]

No we mustn't!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MrQuinn]

In Forever Bruce states that a psycho killed his parents, meaning Jack Napier. Harvey Dent had nothing to do with it.

He actually says "He killed them" referring to Harvey Dent. He "realized" this right after he said "I killed them", though. That being said, it was not necessarily a revelation to him, or an actual memory per se, it was actually pretty cool directing on Joel's behalf because it was just symbolizing that Batman is Batman because ultimately he blames all criminals for his parents death. He had said first "I killed them" because he also blames himself, more fuel for the fire. I'm pretty sure Two Face killing his parents was not supposed to be taken literal, but he did say it though. (If it was supposed to be literal, then wouldn't Harvey have to be like 20 years older than Bruce? I guess in the Forever world that might be believable in their appearance, but.....yeah....no.)

 

[roach]

I think you are reading too much into it but I am not going to watch Forever again to debunk you

 

[Brother Jack]

Batman Forever is as much a sequel to Batman Returns as The Incredible Hulk is a sequel to Ang Lee's Hulk.

 

[roach]

"Even though Batman Returns was a financial success, Warner Bros. felt the film should have made more money and decided to make the film series more mainstream. Tim Burton, who had directed the two previous installments, decided to restrict himself to the role of producer and approved of Joel Schumacher as director. Schumacher originally had in mind an adaptation of Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. The studio rejected the idea as they wanted a sequel, not a prequel, though Schumacher was able to include very brief events in Batman's past. Burton and Schumacher together hired Lee and Janet Scott-Batchler to write the script which introduced a psychotic Riddler with a pet rat accompanying him. The story elements and much of the dialogue still remained in the finished film, though Schumacher felt it could be "lighted down." He hired Akiva Goldsman, whom he previously had worked for on The Client to write the second draft.[2]

Production went on fast track with Rene Russo cast as Dr. Chase Meridian. Michael Keaton decided not to reprise Batman because he did not like the new direction the film series was heading in.[3] Keaton also wanted to pursue "more interesting roles",[4] turning down $35 million to appear in Batman Forever.[1] Val Kilmer was cast days later, and the filmmakers decided that Russo was too old for Kilmer, replacing her with a different actress.[3] Schumacher got interested in Kilmer for Batman after seeing him in Tombstone, and the actor accepted the role without even reading the script or knowing who the new director was.[5]

Robin Wright Penn, Jeanne Tripplehorn and Linda Hamilton were in competition for Dr. Chase Meridian, with Penn appearing as the favorable choice. Nicole Kidman was eventually cast.[6] Even though Billy Dee Williams took the role of Harvey Dent in Batman because he was looking forward to portray Two-Face in a sequel, the producers cast Tommy Lee Jones in the role.[7] Jones was always Schumacher's first choice for the role after working with him on The Client. Jones claims he was sent the script and was very cautious to accept,[2] but accepted the part because Two-Face was his son's favorite character.[8] Robin Williams turned down the Riddler,[9] Jim Carrey was eventually cast.[10] Robin appeared in the shooting script of Batman Returns but was deleted due to too many characters. Marlon Wayans was cast in the role, and signed for Batman Forever. It was decided to replace Wayans with a different actor,[11] Leonardo DiCaprio and Chris O'Donnell became the top two choices, with O'Donnell winning the part. Mitchell Gaylord served as O'Donnell's stunt double."

 

[El Payaso]

I think you are reading too much into it but I am not going to watch Forever again to debunk you

Hahahahahaha. Exactly what I thought! t:

 

[MrQuinn]

I think you are reading too much into it but I am not going to watch Forever again to debunk you

How is that reading too much into it?

It's basic psychology.

And, actually, common Batman knowledge (that he fights crime because of childhood trauma)

Come on, people.


Anyone watch Dexter?
Same kind of principle, as far as the simple psychology goes. Kid suffers trauma, kid grows up to take it out on others. How they take it out is what differs the crazies.

 

[mikey1974]

He actually says "He killed them" referring to Harvey Dent. He "realized" this right after he said "I killed them", though. That being said, it was not necessarily a revelation to him, or an actual memory per se, it was actually pretty cool directing on Joel's behalf because it was just symbolizing that Batman is Batman because ultimately he blames all criminals for his parents death. He had said first "I killed them" because he also blames himself, more fuel for the fire. I'm pretty sure Two Face killing his parents was not supposed to be taken literal, but he did say it though. (If it was supposed to be literal, then wouldn't Harvey have to be like 20 years older than Bruce? I guess in the Forever world that might be believable in their appearance, but.....yeah....no.)

....he's talking about Dick's family...

Bruce: "It's happening just like before...2 shots out of the dark...I killed them.."
Alfred: "What did you say?"
Bruce : " He killed them...Two-Face. He slaughtered that boys' family..."
Alfred: " You said I ....' I ' killed them..."

Bruce looks disturbed...looks up to see the Batsignal outside the window...

 

[Two-Face]

Yeah Two-Face did not kill Bruce's parents it was Dick's. We already know his parents were murdered by Jack Napier in Batman 89.

 

[MrQuinn]

....he's talking about Dick's family...

Bruce: "It's happening just like before...2 shots out of the dark...I killed them.."
Alfred: "What did you say?"
Bruce : " He killed them...Two-Face. He slaughtered that boys' family..."
Alfred: " You said I ....' I ' killed them..."

Bruce looks disturbed...looks up to see the Batsignal outside the window...

Fair enough, perhaps you are right, but just the same, Two Face didn't shoot them like the imagery (and script apparently) suggest, so the symbology is still there imo...

 

[MrQuinn]

Just for the record, I wasn't saying that Two-Face actually killed his (Wayne's) parents either...

 

[Fresh Prince]

I would of loved to see Schumaker's Batman Year One movie. But Val Kilmer as Bruce WAyne/Batman cause it should of been a reboot of the franchise not prequel.

 

[TMC1982]

How to Make the Joel Schumacher Batman Movies Work For You

 

[Indy Flash]

And Chase spoke of skin tight vinyl and a whip meaning catwoman so that's anthoer reason.

 

[Killer]

They´re 100% supposed to be sequels. They just don´t do a good job at it and feel completely disattached from the first two movies.

 

[dax]

They´re 100% supposed to be sequels. They just don´t do a good job at it and feel completely disattached from the first two movies.

Are you kidding??? Batman Forever recreated the Waynes' murder scene from the 1989 movie, acknowledged that the Joker is the killer of Bruce's parents, made a Catwoman reference (Do I need a skin-tight vinyl and a whip?), and it featured a new batmobile since the one from the first 2 films turned into a bat-missle. Then, Batman and Robin picks up where Forever left off which definitely makes them sequels to the Burton films.

 

[Travesty]

They're loose sequels, but sequels nonetheless.