Discussion in 'The Punisher' started by flickchick85, Nov 17, 2017.
EPISODE 2: "Two Dead Men"
Use spoiler tags when discussing the events of any future episodes.
Aw @ Frank/Karen.
Man, gotta stop with this episode for the moment, can't wait to binge watch this whole series tomorrow. Really great start so far!
Russo is suave, that's for sure.
Liked this episode quite a bit, seems like it's really starting to get going now.
Episode 3 tomorrow morning
Great to see Karen. Glad Frank got the better of Lieberman and I wasn't expecting Carson out of the picture quite so soon.
I liked that Karen appeared and it was interesting to see Micro. But the others have yet to get my interest.
Yeah...I'm already feeling the Netflix 13 Episode Bloat.
I love this character they have built and Bernthal's performance...I'm just not feeling what seems to be a "government sold me out" story...and the side story/detective thing just feels like time filler to me.
The coffee in these drinks have me amped up while the alcohol leaves me confused. I think that's an appropriate combination. These episodes feel a lot like Daredevil Season One in the sense that, by the time I get to the end, I'm surprised the stuff in the beginning is the same episode. By the time I get to the end, I forgot all about the wonderful flashback in the beginning. This episode is tied very strongly to Afghanistan, stating with Frank about to deploy, through a memorial of 911, Frank's troopmate, etc. That guy seems surprisingly on the up and up. He may not be, but he's at least very reverential to the man.
I did a read through of Punisher comic highlights prior to this show. Some of the stories I liked best were ones that tried different genres. Given that, I appreciated how this very much had a spy vibe to it. It started early with some cat and mouse stuff and continued all the way to the meeting of Castle and Micro at the end. I also liked the encounter with the main agent's boss (I should remember names). Have to say, I thought the gun would be empty, though.
I'm excited to see Micro and Frank meet. I'm looking forward to the development of his character. Much like the Punisher, there's much to be unsympathetic towards, but there's a lot that's intriguing. I also never really connected that he's Jewish, oddly enough. But I like the mutual distust, which is appropriate under the circumstances.
I didn't even know C. Thomas Howell was in this
He graduated from The Amazing Spider-Man to The Punisher
He plays fantastic scumbags. He was an excellent one on Southland.
I liked this episode more than the first. I thought Carson was gonna last longer.
Frank is a fan of the whole "only one bullet in the gun" trick.
And I really don't like the government conspiracy to kill Frank's family plot. I think Frank (as with most comic book characters, including Batman and Spider-Man) work best when it's random chance/violence that take their family away. It's what drives them to keep going--that it could happen to anyone.
Frank's family being specifically targeted takes away any real motive for him to continue being The Punisher after he gets his revenge. As seen in the first episode.
Characters can have evolving motivation though. I think that Frank's ethos will get him to the place where he's just that freelance agent of old testament justice we all know and love by the end.
This is going to sound mildly absurd, but I honestly think making this a conspiracy was an attempt to make the material a bit more PC (which ultimately failed anyway due to current events) without having to change Frank's methods. We're never going to get direct adaptations of these stories.The SJW crowd would have a field day if that happened, and Marvel doesn't want the headache.
Do please explain what you mean by all that?
I think what he's saying is seeing Frank take out a bunch of street thugs or shooting an old, mobster in a wheelchair isn't going to sit well with audiences these days. People are too sensitive and PC for that and the kind of controversy it would bring isn't something Marvel is going to wanna deal with...and that's unfortunate for us fans of the comics who want to see stories like In the Beginning adapted to live action.
The Punisher going after people as revenge for his families murder is probably seen as more palatable for audiences.
Villains being tied to the hero (or anti-hero in this case) is good for narrative reasons. Personal vengeance is seen as slightly more morally justified than him just killing random bad guys he has no connection to.
Exactly. I'll give credit where credit is due, the creative team behind the show were able make it feel like a natural part of the story hinted at in Daredevil without it feeling like a cop out or a compromise, but I still believe that's why it was done.
Yeah, I can see that happening. Look how quick they threw Kevin Spacey to the curb!
But seriously, I believe the main viewers aren't going to give a crap about some PC. Look at the two most watched shows in the world. Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead. The most controversial things in those shows would be the incest, rapes and child killings, but yet despite those very sensitive subjects, the audience has still kept on watching.
Yea im still holdin out hope for some of those stories to be adapted into a season.
Frank from the moment he appeared in DD has been killing in gruesome ways many an unlucky thug so I don't get the idea that the show is being "PC" in the least in that respect.
But Internet gonna Internet I suppose.
We only saw him kill white bikers and the Kitchen Irish directly. We saw the aftermath of what he did to the Mexican cartel. This was done deliberately. Had season 2 of DD debuted after Iron Fist, it would have been handled differently entirely.
Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead came under direct fire after the rape of Sansa Stark and the death of Glenn respectively.
Marvel is trying to avoid another Iron Fist because despite that show's numerous amount of valid flaws. A good portion of critical focus was on the fact that Danny Rand was white. If Frank had killed [BLACKOUT]Turk[/BLACKOUT] in this season, the backlash would have been catastrophic which is unfortunate because I firmly believe Frank would have in the comics.
So... It's the color of Frank's kills that is the issue? Well... Thanks for stopping dancing around what it comes down to.
It's not just that, but that is the primary issue. Like righthooksrus86 said, having Frank murder an elderly wheelchair ridden gangster ain't gonna fly either. I do think they made the right decision in the end went even went about it in the best possible way they could.