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Discussion in 'Superman & Lois' started by LL2K2, May 7, 2021.
Loved that reveal. This show is so damn good.
I'd have preferred if it was both. He's a version of Lex and Steel. I like this guy as Lex.
I'm going to say that losing the ability to go super speed while going at super speed is not the most comfortable thing to happen.
If you were stripped of your strength all at once, you’d probably collapse too. It’s not like he was writhing in pain (until he was hit with the hammer), he was just too weak to get up. And it wasn’t JUST RV headlights (and that RV was heavily modified anyway so we can assume they were way more powerful than that) - there were also like 6 other lights set up there. And the reason they didn’t use Kryptonite was because they made it a major plot-point that he used the last of his Kryptonite when he stabbed Superman and was looking for more. This is a really weird nit to pick, imo. When people don’t have Kryptonite, their only defense against a Kryptonian is red solar light. It doesn’t kill them, but it makes them weak. That’s fairly common knowledge at this point, and it’s not even the first time he’s used it in this show, so I don’t see the issue.
Yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if we learned that there never was a “Clark Kent” on Irons’ world. That his Superman was always basically just the alien god version who tried to do good for a while, which is why it was so easy for him to turn against humanity - he was barely shown any to begin with.
I suspect that’s the key to persuading Irons that this Supes is different - learning that he has a family and was raised and lived as a human.
Just watched the episode! Wow... that twist completely caught me off guard, but I really liked it! Also I just recently read the novelization of "The Death of Superman" so this was just kinda cool timing. Enjoyed the episode overall!
This show has Superboy (sort of ), Steel (definitely), and the Eradicator (maybe, if that's where they're going with the A.I. in the Fortress). Can the Cyborg Superman be far behind?
That was quite a reveal, didn’t see that coming at all!
I will say, that little bit with Lois talking about the multiverse feels like the most connected this show has been to the greater arrowverse. I don't know why. Looking forward to Diggle showing, who absolutely served with this earths John Henry Irons.
To be fair, I did preface my nit with praise for the series (in general) and this episode (in particular).
This is getting into the weeds a bit. But since you inquired… My issue stems from a longstanding personal peeve (as a Superman nerd ) with the use of “red sun radiation” as a weapon against Supes. To the degree that it’s narratively useful (and not just an easy substitute for kryptonite) I think it works best as the product of highly advanced, rare and/or expensive tech. And to that end, the gizmo emitting the radiation should look like exotic tech —not something that a garage inventor could just throw together. Otherwise, there’s the impression that subduing any Kryptonian is a simple matter of gathering up some light fixtures and swapping out normal bulbs for red ones. And that, quite literally, was the trope used by the Stranger. Seemingly, RV headlights and workshop lamps — just because they’re tinted red — can stop Supes in his tracks.
Indeed, it’s because “red sun radiation” tends to look like mere colored light (as might be found in a typical discotheque ) that clarifying exposition is usually supplied. Thus, the villain will often make an explicit comment about the power-erasing effects that red stars have on Kryptonian physiology. That almost happened here. Except that, instead of “red suns,” the Stranger invoked “solar flares.” As in flares from the Sun — the thing that gives Superman his powers? IOW, even the canonical technobabble that would have (retroactively) explained what was going on wasn’t employed.
And just to be clear: I understood what was intended in the scene; I just thought the execution was clumsy.
On the matter of the Stranger not having access to kryptonite (hence the need for a substitute): I don’t actually recall this detail; so I’ll defer to you on it. But, plot-wise, it’s an interesting limitation to impose on an antagonist: the would-be Superman assassin lacks Superman’s most famous weakness. Except, as it turns out, it was relatively easy to manufacture “kryptonite 2.0”. So the original limitation ends up being somewhat pointless, no? Could have just stuck with kryptonite 1.0.
Anyhoo... still a good episode. Perhaps one of the best so far.
To each their own; I thought it was made perfectly clear in the execution what was going on. And Steel is no "garage inventor" - he was working with very high tech stuff (that hammer!), and most of his initial tech was stolen directly from Lex Luthor - a guy who obsessively built tech to take out Kryptonians. So it's a pretty easy conclusion to draw that there were no ordinary light bulbs involved. Pseudo-science exposition was wholly unnecessary in this case, imo. For the uninitiated, it doesn't even matter what kind of lightbulbs they were - just that they were LuthorCorp-level tech designed specifically to weaken a Kryptonian. For the fans, they know red sunlight when they see it, and what it does.
And again, red sunlight can't kill Kryptonians, so it's not exactly Kryptonite 2.0. Irons still has to work pretty hard to kill him through other means once he's got him in the red sunlight. After hitting him with a red solar bomb in a previous episode, he still had to chase him down and hedge his bets with a plain ol' gun (a huge gamble as red sunlight's effects tend to wear off about as quickly as they start), which didn't work out for him. His previous use of Kryptonite was not as radiation or means of weakening, but as more of a direct physical weapon, which isn't something he can duplicate with the red sunlight. So no, that limitation isn't pointless, imo. Supes more likely would've been dead in this episode if Irons had only had a single Kryptonite bullet or knife left. And for plot purposes, the loss of Kryptonite combined with damage to his suit was the reason he took a break from pursuing Kal-El for a while after the start of the show. He went looking for more Kryptonite. Perhaps this X-Kryptonite was all he could find.
This show is amazing, need more of evil Superman. Oh, and I'm here for the love triangle between the brothers and Sarah, here for all of it.
Goddammit, I forgot to add a poll AGAIN. Adding it now. If anyone still visits this thread days after the episode, feel free to vote.
I really think/hope we'll be getting an episode devoted to his backstory. Or at least how Irons remembers him before the moment he "turned." It's clear he was a hero on their Earth too, until he wasn't. But I think they're really gonna want to show us what made him different from Clark from the start.
I do think that his family will be they key difference, but not in the Snyderian, fridging sense. Irons is convinced that what Edge is doing is the same what happened on his world. And we have seen that the X-kryptonite process is more than giving powers. It is also seeming to resurrect Kryptonians. So, he joins up with them to conquer Earth, because he doesn't necessarilly have the same things bonding him to earth and humanity as our Clark does.
Yeah right now I suspect it will be about him choosing to join the Kryptonians because on that Earth, they're the only chance at family or belonging that he's ever had, or some variation of that theme.
I certainly loved it when the realization hit me as the episode went along. They totally played with the audience expectation and acceptance alternate Earth characters looking and being different from what we're usually given.
It's funny that MG was all "We cant find a way to do a flashback origin episode with Black Siren and have it make sense since she's from Earth 2"
And here we have S&L doing it like it's the easiest thing in the world.
Not quite as strong as last week’s episode but I’m totally on board with where things are going. That alternate reality with multiple Superman destroying Metropolis had some good special effects. Almost rivals some of MOS’s visuals.
Interesting twist. I didn't see it coming. He was Steel all along. I'm glad he wasn't Luthor after all because the Luthors are getting so boring and overused in every iteration of Superman as if they feel they need him in it out of obligation. This gives the chance for a completely different character and foe to shine.
Why was the AI set to Luthor on his earth? Where did he get that from? Luthor himself? Was Luthor a military person since he was called Captain Luthor?
Yes, as he said, he was telling the truth about having previously worked for LuthorCorp. He stole the tech from Luthor and made his own modifications (I have a feeling Luthor had been killed already). But as "Nat-bug" said, they didn't get a chance to change the AI from answering to him as Luthor.
As for Luthor in the military, who knows. My guess is that when the end of the world was upon them, everyone who became part of the organized fight against the Kryptonians became "military," whether they actually were before or not.
Awesome reveal. I actually joked to myself saying "Hehe he could make a good Steel. Even has the suit". Then they dropped "John Henry Irons" and I lost my mind.
I'm disappointed by the general lack of excitement from the "reactors" on youtube. Some of them didn't even know who he was. I guess I'm an older fan. I've been wanting to see a live action Steel redeemed since that awful Shaq movie.