Sequel outline... check it out!

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight' started by Maxwell Smart, Apr 29, 2006.

  1. Maxwell Smart Registered

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    I've been brainstorming this over for a while. Based on various rumors and other things I've formulated these outlines for the plots of BB2 and BB3.

    You guys let me know what you think.


    Batman 2:

    Batman, Dent, and Gordon team up to take down Sal "The Boss" Maroni who has stepped in to fill the void in Gotham's underworld since Falcone went nutso. Maroni wants to take over Gotham and take out the Bat, and to accomplish this he is allied with Black Mask(Roman Sionis), a new gangster on the scene who hides his face with a mask(obviously). Together they are forming a deal with notorious British armsdealer Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot to flood the city with arms and provoke a gang war that will derail Gotham's recovery and the mission of the Batman.

    Of course, Black Mask/Roman Sionis also has a personal vendetta against Bruce Wayne for buying out the company he was an heir to, so you'd have that subplot which would be cool because BM/Sionis would serve as an adversary for both Bats and Bruce himself. Meanwhile, Sarah Essen, an ATF agent, is brought in to help Gordon and Dent investigate the arms deal, and accidentally finds out about their business relationship with the Batman, and they get her to reluctantly agree to joining their partnership.

    While all of this is going on of course The Joker will be going about his business, creating problems for both sides. He should act like the anti-Batman. Batman trys to restore order, and he tries to bring about chaos. Think of him as Gotham's Loki.

    There would be room for Selina Kyle too, just not too big of a role. Introduce her and develop her relationship with Bruce some, but save Catwoman for another movie. Also I really like the idea of including Leslie Thompkins too.

    Penguin wouldn't actually show until the finale, in which he could be hiding the guns in the crates by covering them with umbrellas(pretty nifty, eh?) and when Dent, Gordon, and Bats move in for the bust he gets spooked and leaves town as fast as possible. The Joker is apprehended, along with Maroni , setting things up for the trial at the beginning of Batman 3.

    Batman 3:

    Harvey Dent is scarred at the beginning by Maroni, like in the comics, however we're shown its The Joker who gives him the acid. Dent is sent to the hospital, and like in the comics he escapes. He declares a war against the old guard of the Gotham underworld, and the police too(for their incompetence in his eyes).

    As Two-Face, he busts The Joker out of Arkham in order to form an alliance. They recruit other baddies together(Zsaz, Crane, perhaps others we've yet to be introduced to...), but we're shown throughout the story that underneath Face HATES The Joker and the tension between the two is built up throughout the movie.

    Throughout the movie Gordon and Batman's relationship is strained by Harvey's betrayal(like at the end of TLH), as they(along with Essen) work against Two-Face and The Joker.

    Theres also a subplot where Alfred is trying to encourage Bruce to live his life and not let Batman's affairs consume him, and so he prods Bruce's relationship along with Selina, who seems more interested in him than he in her. Meanwhile Catwoman shows up, and the Batman (ironically) becomes totally fascinated with her. Amid all of his inner turmoil and chaos, there is finally something that excites him and makes him yearn for enjoyment. But ironically, this person is not exactly part of his mission.

    You could end the movie with Batman having to stop Two-Face from killing The Joker after Two-Face finds out that The Joker gave Maroni the acid and was in on it. Catwoman is unapprehended and her story with Bats has only begun and could/will be used in later films. And by the end Bruce does accept that he has to be both Bats and Bruce, otherwise he will lose himself to the darkness like Harvey. So theres a definite arc for him.



    I'd especially like some feedback from The Guard.
     
  2. Maxwell Smart Registered

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    Crap I also forgot to mention that in BB3, Two-Face would enlist the help of Cobblepot in his new crusade. So the Penguin would have a bit larger role in BB3.
     
  3. Anjow1060 Rattling the cage

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    I agree that Maroni should scar Dent. Makes more sense in Two-Face wanting to eliminate all crime bosses in GC.
     
  4. Eddie Dean Jokerfied

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  5. Yellow Cyclone Pessimist

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    not bad, but instead of introducing selina (out of the blue, unless you wanna kill of rachel), i say substitue TALIA for her.....that way it makes a little more sense to the audience, links back to BB, and doesn't suffer from cram-too-much in the movie syndrome
     
  6. Anjow1060 Rattling the cage

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    Why cant we have both Selina and rachel? It'd make for an interesting situation with 2 women after bruce's affection. And then one of them dies, and the other turns to crime......adding to bruce's troubled life.
     
  7. Maxwell Smart Registered

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    I'd rather Rachel just be ignored. To me the last scene with her and Bruce in BB had enough closure.

    I'm not particularly interested in Talia either, because I'd like for the Ra's storyline to lay dorment for a couple of films at least. Selina is by and far my favorite love interest for Bruce. I think Talia is kind of overrated.
     
  8. DCW Registered

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    I like it alot, good job.
     
  9. chintai80 oh hi.

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    i dig it. but i wouldn't be surprised if the sequels had a totally different plotline. but ur outline seems like the logical direction on how the story progresses.
     
  10. Katsuro Registered

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    Awesome, i really like it.

    Penguin should also have one umbrella gun. I figure, he's an arms dealer, he could probably gain access to something like that. I'd like to see that used in one scene.

    Isn't it usually the other way around. Bruce is really interested in Selina, while Catwoman is infatuated with Batman.
     
  11. Alizarin Guest

    This is interesting, especially because of the Black Mask. He could be something new and fresh ( for those who are bored with re-using the villains from previous Batman movies ) and The Joker and the Peguin would work as smaller parts.
     
  12. wikum Registered

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    i'm all for the black mask. i think he's a great character with a twisted sense of humour. i really hope he is used in bb2. earle could turn to him after being fired by bruce.
     
  13. rnewbz More human than human

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    I think that maybe something like in dark victory should happen, a big war between the gansters vs. the freaks in costumes. In the end the organized crime family will be wiped out, batman wins but at the cost of terrible freaks runnig amok
     
  14. Mr. Socko Registered

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    The title made me think this was the real outline.

    But those are some great ideas, I really liked them. I'm certainly looking forward to a direction like that in the movies. But you didn't say what happens to The Joker in Batman 2.
     
  15. JLBats The boney king of nowhere

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    Do you know how to outline a movie in the style of the three act structure? I do. Maybe we could make up a plot graph, I also have Final Draft, so we could type up a version if you wanted.
     
  16. Mr. Socko Registered

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    You have a final draft of your own Batman script?
     
  17. ganstaman56 Registered

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    what about Harley? ya cant have joker without his wacky girlfriend!
    and wat about Joker Venom (gas that causes spasms of laughter and death with a joker grin. and liquid in the BANG dart that causes instant death with a joker grin) plus i dont think joker would partner up with Two face. other than that it's perfect!
     
  18. JLBats The boney king of nowhere

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    No, Final Draft is a screenwriting program, although I am writing up a Batman script.
     
  19. Mr. Socko Registered

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  20. ganstaman56 Registered

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    heres my ending. Two Face doesnt team up with Joker and after he escapes the hospital he shoots and kills Maroni and Interogates Black Mask who tells him that Joker was the one who sold Maroni the acid. Harvey flips the coin to decide whether to kill him or not. he gets heads. this keeps him from killing Mask and he instead leaves him to go look for Joker. Before Mask can leave Batman who saw the whole thing bursts in and interogates him about where harvey went he tells him and batman knocks him out and turns him over to the police. Two Face finds Joker at an old warehouse at the docks where he is making some sort of toxin. Two Face charges him and starts beating the crap out of him. he throws him into a table knocking him down onto the floor. Joker lays there battered and bleeding Two Face pulls out a gun and just before he can shoot him Batman jumps through a window and confronts two face. Two Face aims the gun at him and tells him to stay out of it. Batman tries to reach harvey but Two Face is completely in control. seeing there is no way out of this Batman reminds harvey of his coin and persuades harvey into flipping to decide. harvey takes out his coin but before he can flip it batman knocks it out of his hand and catches it. Two Face makes a grab for it but Batman throws it out the window into the lake leaving Two Face in a fetal position on the floor trapped in a world where no clear answer exists. When Batman looks up from Harvey Joker is gone along with his toxins. leaving batman and harvey in the warehouse where a bomb is about to explode! Batman uses his grappeling gun to swing out of the window with an unconcious harvey slung over his shoulder just before the warehouse explodes. Later Two Face is sent to Arkam Asylum where they are trying to heal his unstable mind. Batman is on the hunt for Joker who is running loose throughout gotham with this strange toxin. the next day Black Mask is found dead in his cell. Police find no bullet hole nothing. the only thing they find is that he has a huge smile on his face. An autopsy reveals he was poisoned by some unknown toxin. The prime suspect is Harvey Dent/Two Face but they dont know how he couldve got out of his cell. Meanwhile Penguin has returned to gotham because now Two Face cant get to him because he was involved with Maroni and has taken back control of his nightclub and gang. k i'll finish it later tell me wat you all think.
     
  21. JLBats The boney king of nowhere

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    Also, I think some of your ideas are way too complex and unfocused. You have too many characters thrown in.
     
  22. ganstaman56 Registered

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    this is my idea for BB3 continued

    Following the death of Black Mask the police interrogate thier prime suspect Harvey Dent but they only get mumbles from him since his mind is gone without his coin. Later that night Arkam Doctors are trying to calm Dent down because he is laughing uncontrollably. but despite the doctor's efforts dent dies with the same ghastly grin on his face as Mask.
    this means the man who killed Mask wasnt Dent it was someone else.
    they perform an autopsy on dent's body expecting to find the same toxin they found in Mask's body. but to their surprise they dont find anything.
    later Penguin is in his mansion when he recieves and unexpected visitor Joker. Penguin is about to call secuirity but joker grabs him and throws him down into a chair. he pulls up a chair and tells penguin he has an offer for him. Since Maroni and all his buddies are gone he wants him to start supplying his arms for him. at first penguin refuses but after a little ''persuasion'' he accepts joker's offer. Batman is investigating the mysterious deaths and finds a pattern in the killings both victims had something to do with Maroni. Joker has taken control of Maroni's business and is hiring thugs to produce fear in Gotham's citizens. And is making money off of Penguin's night club. Batman learns of Penguin's connection to the killer and goes to his night club to get some answers. Batman corners him in his office in his nightclub and demands to know who he is working for. just before penguin can tell he falls over dead with a large dart in his back with a little flag on the end that says BANG! Batman turns over his body and to his horror sees the same Grin on his face as the other victims! Batman turns around just in time to see a dark figure running away. he chases the figure and corners him on a rooftop. he gets a good look at his face in the moonlight and sees that its Joker. he demands to know why he killed all these people. and joker says that after Maroni was killed he saw his opportunity to take control of the business and he knew dent would come after him so he let himself be beat up a little by dent because he knew batman would come. that way while dent was distracted by batman he could plant a bomb in the building and escape and be rid of Dent and Batman at the same time. when he learned that dent and batman survived he finished his toxin and went out to kill Mask because he knew while he was alive he couldnt pull this off and he wanted to make sure all remnents of Maroni were gone. He killed Dent because he knew he would try to kill him again if they ever healed his mind. so after that he made a deal with Penguin to sell him his arms so that he could use his men to inspire fear in the citizens of Gotham. he got half of the profits from Penguins nightclub so that he now had wealth AND power. Joker then mocks him about how he failed to stop him from killing his friend Harvey and how it took him this long to figure it out. Batman becomes enraged after listening to Joker laugh at him and punches him in the face. knocking him off the edge of the building. Joker is hanging off the edge of the building and nearly slips before batman decides to grab him. he pulls him up and Joker then tries to stab him with a knife just before batman knocks him out. Joker is then sent to Arkam Asylum and we see a cute young doctor come to his cell with a nametag that says Harleen Quinzel. tell me what you think.
     
  23. The Guard Registered

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    Maxwell, I'll be honest. I don't care much for the Black Mask of WAR GAMES and WAR CRIMES, and don't care for him when he's used as a major rogue (he's so derivative of so many villains), so I'll reserve judgement on that front. The arms war makes sense, but I think an accidental or escalating gangwar would make more sense than an engineered one. I'm unsure what you mean about Wayne and Sionis's connection. Shouldn't Gordon/Dent/Batman be established before Sarah joins up? I love the idea of seeing Leslie Thompkins and Selina, but you're starting to have too many characters. I also like the idea of Penguin figuring in a larger capacity in BATMAN 3.

    The main problem I have with your BATMAN 2 is that it almost feels "small scale". Where's the threat to top Ra's Al Ghul's threat to Gotham City?

    The BATMAN 3 plot makes sense for the most part, but how would The Joker provide acid, and why would Two-Face ally himself with The Joker? "Meanwhile, Catwoman shows up". Convenient. How would that occur? :)

    I think Batman 3 absolutely has to be the climactic point of the series, with a supervillain gang war. It's kind of a shame they blew the "breaking people out of Arkham" load in the first film.
     
  24. Maxwell Smart Registered

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    I suppose that could work too. If Bats can glide with his cape than an armsdealer can have a firearm built into an umbrella, lol.

    But I still like my idea of hiding the guns with umbrellas too. :D


    You know, you're right. BUT, I think the way I explained it does work because of Batman's arc in my BATMAN 3. He is struggling with being Bruce and Bats; he really just wants to be Batman. So it would actually make more sense then if he as Batman was infatuated with Catwoman than the other wa y around, even though that is a bit different from the comics I admit.

    Well, don't be mistaken. The Joker has a very important part in both my B2 and B3, even if the outline didn't exactly sound that way. He would probably have around 35-40 minutes of screen time, and about the same in B3.

    That is an interesting idea too... and it might be a more efficient way to write him in than using the plotline of Wayne Industries acquiring Sionis' family company(which I cannot recall the name of... was it just Sionis cosmetics or something?).

    :up: That was what I was going for. Actually, my B2 is loosely based on TLH, and B3 is loosely based on DV.


    That sounds really good, dude. I'd like that, we could make more of an actual treatment out of it. Who knows? Maybe we could send it The Guard's way and he could do something with it. I'm fairly decent at brainstorming and coming up with ideas and themes, but when it comes to the mechanics of fleshing it out like Goyer I'm not that great. :p

    Actually its not as complicated as it may seem at first on paper. Trust me the way I'm picturing it in my head I know it can all fit together right just like any good comic story would.

    For example the way I mentioned her it may seem like I'm trying to shoehorn Lesley Thompkins and I'm really not; she has a purpose in the story. Theres a subplot between Alfred and Bruce that extends over both films, and that is Alfred is very concerned about Batman consuming Bruce. My idea is that she arrives in Gotham in BATMAN 2 unexpectedly after many years of absence. She is an old friend of Alfred and we can find out through a flashback scene or two that in between the murder of Bruce's parents and the Chill trial, she counseled him just like in the comics. She stays at Wayne manor, and because she knows Bruce so well she is able to figure out he is Batman and is very disturbed by it.

    How would it happen accidentally though? (the gang war)

    What I meant about Wayne and Sionis' connection is that Sionis as we all know is an heir to a family company like Bruce but he runs it into the ground, and Wayne Industries buys the company out. The problem here is that it would probably take too much time to set this up... I'm not sure how to handle it, but there needs to be another major villain in the plot besides The Joker who helps to link things together. Do you have any suggestions?

    I think you may be right about Essen. BATMAN 2 probably is not the right point to bring her in at. Maybe it would make more sense if shes brought in AFTER the arms deal is busted wide open at the end of BATMAN 2, as I'm sure the presence of a notorious international armsdealer in a major American city would attract the ATF.

    I explained Thompkins above, and as for Selina its just that in my interpretation of the character of Batman I see her as being one of the ESSENTIAL supporting characters along with Gordon and Alfred.

    Glad you like my ideas for Pengy. I think after Burton's Penguin in Returns, and the staleness of comic interpretations for the most part, people are very open to some fresh ideas with the character...

    That was quite intentional, my friend. :) Glad you picked up on what I was going for.

    The reason I'm envisioning it as more small scale is that I do view it as "Escalation". Things are starting to heat up, but it doesn't begin to boil over until the end of BATMAN 2/beginning of BATMAN 3. Think of BATMAN 2 as the tense, hardboiled build-up to the war we see in BATMAN 3. Infact, its almost like B2 is a big set-up for B3. Which some people may not like if they are adament about the films standing on their own.

    On The Joker providing acid, I have not come up with the solution as to how yet so you have me there.

    As for why Two-Face would choose to ally with Joker here's how I see it. Part of what drives Harvey into becoming Two-Face in this arc is that due to his scarring at the hands of Maroni he stops believing in "the system". Like in TLH I can picture Harvey(although with good intentions) questioning it at different points throughout BATMAN 2 but his scarring is the straw that broke the camel's back. After all of their hard work throughout B2, right in the middle of a court of law in front of all of Gotham, Maroni is able to do this to Dent.

    It sends him over the edge. By embracing those dark feelings he already had and casting aside his former beliefs, he sees The Joker as the personification of doing things your own way oblivious to the system. My view of The Joker is hes the ultimate case of anti-social personality disorder, and he goes for his goals(which as Batman has appropriately put before only make sense to him) regardless of the consequences. He gets what he wants despite the means being absolutely dispicable; he doesn't care because he cannot truely empathize with other human beings. So Two-Face knows that The Joker wants to destroy both the fuzz and the traditional underworld establishment just like him(but for different reasons obviously). Despite their differences in motivation Two-Face with his lack of ethics just sees it as practical to enlist The Joker. But the thing about that is underneath he struggles with it as I said. Harvey is still in there somewhere. And I think Two-Face going off on The Joker in the finale actually shows the internal conflict hes having with himself.

    By trying to murder The Joker hes doing something Harvey would not but Face would, yet hes doing it for motivations that clearly come from Harvey. So its like his internal struggle coming to a head; neither Harvey or Two-Face are clearly in the driver's seat at that moment. I really like gangstaman's idea of when Batman shows, he persuades Harvey/Two-Face into flipping his coin, and he then catches it keeping the toss from being completed. Harv/Face is thusly totally unable at that moment to reconcile his internal struggle, so he just pretty much collapses mentally. Shuts down.
     
  25. kytrigger Registered

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    I like your ideas for the next 2 films. I would have done some things differently, but I see where you are going, and it's a strong story. Personally, I would have had Maroni on his own against Black Mask(teamed with Penguin) and that is where the gang war starts, between those two.

    I also would prefer Joker and Dent not to work together in BB3. I was kind of hoping that Dent would have a vendetta against Joker and while both are loose, Two-Face is hunting Joker down, and Batman is hunting both of them down at teh same time. (But you don't have Joker scarring Dent, so them teaming up does makes sense in your outline).
     

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