Should We Water Board Terror Suspects To Save Lives?

[Mr Sparkle]

They invaded our country!

We just returned the favor.....

do you even know what "invasion" means?

 

[Superman]

They invaded our country!

We just returned the favor.....

Who invaded us? The iraqis? Nope, Don't think that happend.

So what other lie you got?

 

[Matt]

Do you honestly have to be a jackass everytime. First of all, al-Qaeda attacked us, not invaded us.

Second, the reason why al-Qaeda attacked us was because of our continual presence in the Middle East which has been gone on for decades. Building bases in Saudi Arabia, interfering with Middle Eastern politics (particularly with Iran, Iraq, and Israel), enforcing the No-Fly Zones in Iraq and bombing it multiple times (1996 and 1998), and supporting Israel. They didn't just attack for absolutely no reason.

People like you and my dad need to realise that terrorist groups have goals that they try an accomplish. al-Qaeda wants to rid the Islamic world of Western influence and establish an Islamic government. Hamas wants to destroy Israel and establish an Arabic Palestinian state. The Irish Republican Army wanted the British out of Ireland completely. The Black Hand wanted to get the Austrians out of Serb dominated areas. The ETA wants the Spanish out of the Basque provinces. The list goes on and on. Despite the fact that their actions are irrational, there is reasoning behind their actions.

Why do you hate the troops? t:

But seriously, great post H_H

 

[Abaddon]

isn't this what that movie "Rendition" is about?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

why was my other thread on the necessity of water boarding closed?
I'm being silenced by the liberal media.

 

[Spade]

I would still be interesting in seeing the articles Matt offered on methods of extracting information that are much more efficient/reliable than torture.

 

[Addendum]

And I'd like to see what "terror attacks" have been stopped because of torture

 

[teseract]

Letting a 100 guilty people go free to rape and murder again makes no sense.


And there's the one that says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the the one".

That's how real heroes are born. Guys that throw themselves on grenades to save their squad.

If I can save hundreds, thousands or millions (sorry Mr Spakle ) I will do just that. If this one guy has known associates who are known terrorists and intel has them plotting something, wellllllll guess what.

I can just talk for myself. If I would end up being tortured innocently I would search out every single one involed in the process from the torturer to the secretary who wrote the order and tortue them till they are dead. An eye for an eye seems to be the prefered mentality to some here, well then I take the right to get me both eyes.

 

[teseract]

Unfortunate. Therapy???

Doesn't cut it, Revenge is the only thing that can wash the pain away and it would be sweet to hear someone explain how "unfortunate" the torture was when he himself is violated by a ***** with razors attached to it. Let the little piggies squeal I say.

 

[danoyse]

I would still be interesting in seeing the articles Matt offered on methods of extracting information that are much more efficient/reliable than torture.

I posted this a few pages back (and I'm not Matt ), but this is a 2005 article from the New Yorker that details the many, many problems with extraordinary rendition and torture of terror suspects.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6

 

[kainedamo]

Slimdog always posts emotionally. He never posts logically. Its always black and white, us vs them, anything is justified if it saves american lives kind of mentallity. He never seems to think things through.

 

[teseract]

Slimdog always posts emotionally. He never posts logically. Its always black and white, us vs them, anything is justified if it saves american lives kind of mentallity. He never seems to think things through.

I normaly don't wish ill on the living but I really hope he gets tortured one day.

 

[comicgirl]

hell, no. We've already lost the "moral" highground given afer 9/11. Should we back that up w/ The United States of America. We don't torture....we get our poorer "allies" to do it for us

 

[SentinelMind]

I normaly don't wish ill on the living but I really hope he gets tortured one day.

You want your opponents to go to hell, which you think doesn't exist, and be tortured....be careful what you wish for...

 

[bullets]

hell, no. We've already lost the "moral" highground given afer 9/11. Should we back that up w/ The United States of America. We don't torture....we get our poorer "allies" to do it for us

yeah .. havent we taught them anything?

 

[teseract]

You want your opponents to go to hell, which you think doesn't exist, and be tortured....be careful what you wish for...

Not my opponents, I don't consider the people who threw the bomb my opponents. I just consider them mass murderers who killed many innocent people and the place for humans who kill innocent people is hell according to most religions. No matter how much the act did to prevent more suffering, it still caused the death of many innocent people and for that number there is a price to pay imho. You don't get absolution for something like that just because you prevented more suffering. If there is a god he does not play with scales.

 

[comicgirl]

yeah .. havent we taught them anything?

yeah

 

[Addendum]

Sorry for bumping a thread from a week ago.

Anyway, in 2004, the then Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin subjected himself to waterboarding to find out whether it was torture. He knew going into it that the U.S. soldiers wouldn't kill him. That it would stop if it caused him the slightest distress. And yet he still thought he was drowning. He published this memo about the technique and called it torture.

When Alberto Gonzales became Attorney General, Daniel Levin was fired.

Last Thursday, a former Navy Interrogation Instructor, Malcolm Nance testified before a House Constitutional Subcommittee that "waterboarding is misnamed. It should not be called waterboarding. That‘s just the device that we use and torturers have used throughout history. It should be called the drowning torture. It has been called the drowning torture in the past."

In 1947, a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, was charged with war crimes by the United States for waterboarding an American civilian. He was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

Henri Alleq, a French journalist covering the Algerian War was subjected to waterboarding by Algerian troops in 1057. He discussed the experience in his book, The Question which was published in 1958.

"The rag was soaked rapidly. Water flowed everywhere: in my mouth, in my nose, all over my face. But for a while I could still breathe in some small gulps of air. I tried, by contracting my throat, to take in as little water as possible and to resist suffocation by keeping air in my lungs for as long as I could. But I couldn't hold on for more than a few moments. I had the impression of drowning, and a terrible agony, that of death itself, took possession of me. In spite of myself, all the muscles of my body struggled uselessly to save me from suffocation. In spite of myself, the fingers of both my hands shook uncontrollably. "That's it! He's going to talk," said a voice.

The water stopped running and they took away the rag. I was able to breathe. In the gloom, I saw the lieutenants and the captain, who, with a cigarette between his lips, was hitting my stomach with his fist to make me throw out the water I had swallowed."

As a final thought, torture gets people to talk, torture gets people to plead, torture gets people to break, but torture does not get them to tell the truth.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

When you ignore signs of invasion,something like that is bound to happen.America often gets prisoners and sends them to other countries to have them tourtured,since the Constitution forbids it on American soil.It's a loop hole that allows them to bypass it and do what ever they want in other lands that would accept them there.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

No matter what they did, torturing is wrong. period.

 

[Superman79]

No matter what they did, torturing is wrong. period.

So then why are they still allowing Brittney Spears to make "music"????

 

[Addendum]

So then why are they still allowing Brittney Spears to make "music"????

Because things would be a hell of a lot worse if she was an actual prostitute

 

[Memphis Slim]

No matter what they did, torturing is wrong. period.

No matter what?

To honestly get information to save innocent lives?

You guys sure seem to care more for the killers than the women and children they kill.

Oh....and news flash!!! They already torture our soldiers.....and reporters too.

anybody remember the beheadings...?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

No matter what?

To honestly get information to save innocent lives?

You guys sure seem to care more for the killers than the women and children they kill.

Oh....and news flash!!! They already torture our soldiers.....and reporters too.

anybody remember the beheadings...?

yeah.

2 wrongs make a right is a universal lesson we all haven't learned yet.

silly liberal people with their faulty moral compass.
they should know that

1.- information obtained from torture is totally reliable
( though If I tortured Celldog I'm sure I could get him to say he is responsible for the sinking of the good ship lollipop)
2.-the fact that Japanase troops were put on trial after WWII for water boarding enemy troops was wrong because

a.- it was a war and war is hell
b.- they were obtaining information to save Japaneses lives

so obviously Celldog thinks that these people, who were put on trial for war crimes should have received commendations.

 

[Memphis Slim]

yeah.

2 wrongs make a right is a universal lesson we all haven't learned yet.

silly liberal people with their faulty moral compass.
they should know that

1.- information obtained from torture is totally reliable
( though If I tortured Celldog I'm sure I could get him to say he is responsible for the sinking of the good ship lollipop)
2.-the fact that Japanase troops were put on trial after WWII for water boarding enemy troops was wrong because
http://forums.superherohype.com/member.php?u=24951

I sometimes think this is really you.

When your enemy is bent on your total destruction, you dont ease up off the pedal. You push the pedal harder than he does. You overwhelm him. you do what is needed to bring the conflict ot an end.

You guys must live on some other world that I dont know about. Ive been reading these responses and just thanking god that you guys are not in the military protecting my family.

You just keep thinking what you do. Its a free country...partly because our soldiers and black ops keep it that way, by doing the dirty jobs that are necessary.

You like sausage. But you dont want to see how its made.

a.- it was a war and war is hell
b.- they were obtaining information to save Japaneses lives

so obviously Celldog thinks that these people, who were put on trial for war crimes should have received commendations.

You are funny.....truly.t: