So, was there racist subtext or not?

[jaguarr]

This movie isn't about race, it's about fighting against cultural domination. Eastern vs. western culture, like 5,000 years of the same old battles over territory and dominence. It wasn't just Persians that were the bad guys, it was Conquered Egyptians, african tribes, asians, mongolians, ect. They were united under domination, under lash from Xerses, to drive the Spartans back. End of story. Too bad people are too caught in their own cultural guilt/pride to see the obvious.

BTW- This is a place to talk about comic book/graphic novel based films, not hot button race bull-s##t.

Good God. It took 31 posts for someone to point out the obvious? That's pathetic, kids. "300" isn't a racist film. If you take issue with it as such then I suggest you go rip your history teacher a new ass for not teaching you well, because the Persian Empire was MASSIVE and encompassed A LOT of different cultures and A LOT of different races. They were also very inclusive of ANYONE, disfigured or defective or not, that would bow down to Xerxes and declare him their God and King. Many cultures at that time, not just the Spartans, were not accepting of birth defects of any kind. They couldn't afford to allow what they perceived as weaknesses to dilute their gene pool and potentially weaken their ability to defend themselves from would-be attackers. Some, like the Spartans, just killed babies with birth defects at birth. Others would banish them, along with their parents (or even just the mother) to separate villages or even from their lands altogether. It's no surprise that many of them would end up under Xerxes reign, a ruler with a desire to spread his empire that was second only to Ghengis Kahn.

While there is a lot about "300" that is historically inaccurate, it is not racist. Go read a history book.

jag

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

Ridiculous. You mention all of the deaths of the so called dark-skinned people; but you neglect the slaughter of 300 overwhelmed white men.

Also, there were many different ethnic appearances; I saw many Persians who did not resemble black people.

This movie was neither portrayed in racial terms or political terms. This thread is ridiculous and pointless, not to mention inciting.

What's ridiculous? Did you even read my post? I said that the 3 main bad guys in the movie are all black or dark skinned, and all the good guys (the 300 Spartans) are 100% White. How can one not see that in racial terms? Here's what happened when I saw the movie. At the end, as the credits were rolling, this guy got up from his seat, saw me sitting nearby, and came up to me and said "Great movie, huh?" So I nodded yes. Then he said, "Especially if you're from Sparta, like me. Now I'm ready to go out and kill every *igger I see." You don't think that was a racially motivated comment that he made?

 

[jaguarr]

Would it have made any of you people happy if all the Spartans had been big, buff black guys, even if that doesn't reflect historical reality at all, and all the members of the Persian Army had been pasty white Anglos, even if that doesn't reflect historical reality at all either?

jag

 

[Fran]

jagu-owned!

 

[WeeZiTe]

Not

 

[jaguarr]

No because then all the black people would've died at the end, too.

Some people are just never satisfied.

jag

 

[DieSmiling]

There is more of a homosexual overtone than any kind of racist one. Irrelevent.

 

[Demon Within]

PC didnt exist in ancient times. It shoudnt exist in our times IMO. PC is ruining the world.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Jaguarr, barely anything about this movie was historical reality. No one should put history and 300 on the same table.

The Spartans were Mediterranean people that means they should be tan and mostly dark haired (in the comic book they did look this way), not much different than the Persians except for dress and culture (and im not talking about cross dressing Frank Miller 300 Persian culture, but the actual Persian culture).

Lots of things about this movie was very innacurate. It was not a deformed Spartan that showed the hidden pass, it was a Greek, the Persians at that time never referred to their elite gaurds/troops as Immortals, this was a term coined by Herodotus.

The Spartans DID have homosexual tendencies, they DID have slaves, they DID massacre innocent people, and they DID terrorize their neighbors.

I agree with the other posters who said that Frank Miller's interpretation was never about historical accuracy. It was in fact, to glorify a memory in his childhood that he had for the Spartans after watching an older movie about the 300 Spartans.

Zack Snyder pulled it off in flying colors by showing the surreal feel and look of the movie, the epic battlegrounds, the Spartan defense, the ballet/artistic gory fight. It was an awesome comic book movie.

 

[jaguarr]

Jaguarr, barely anything about this movie was historical reality.

I never said it was historically accurate. I think that was pretty clear from my statement

While there is a lot about "300" that is historically inaccurate, it is not racist.

But the Persian Army WAS highly mixed in it's racial content and that IS portrayed in the film.



jag

 

[Demon Within]

What's ridiculous? Did you even read my post? I said that the 3 main bad guys in the movie are all black or dark skinned, and all the good guys (the 300 Spartans) are 100% White. How can one not see that in racial terms? Here's what happened when I saw the movie. At the end, as the credits were rolling, this guy got up from his seat, saw me sitting nearby, and came up to me and said "Great movie, huh?" So I nodded yes. Then he said, "Especially if you're from Sparta, like me. Now I'm ready to go out and kill every *igger I see." You don't think that was a racially motivated comment that he made?

I seriously doubt this scenerio actually happened.

 

[herakles]

YEAAAAAAH, Thanks for the brief history leson...ALL I CAN SAY NOW IS *ERR-GO-GY* (don't really know if it exist but I know I didn't spell it right. I put it like that, as I was trying to sound it out. You historian do the rest) as it's called , forces the children to fight, steal, and even killed. I mean modern day greek should be offended. I guess at the fact that at one time, they were taught to be theives, murderer and bully, before even reaching adulthood. Or at how barbaric the movie made greeks, throwing your kids over a cliff, due to imperfection. I know nowadays you can't send your kids to school with one scratch on them. Coz child service might take them from you . But in sparta at seven they were getting slapped around by their 250lbs fathers, what kind of a society put up with something like that. It's seems like the movie offended everyone. Or maybe it was just a movie, and your just looking too far beyond that.

WHy should I be offended by my ancestors! The world WAS A much MORE volient place back then! I am Greek but Im Arcadian not Laconian or Athenian. My only problem is that people use their "Modern" values to Judge other and Ancient socities! Before you judge these people try not to use your Modern Values try to think about what type of world it was and how harsh it was in comparstion to today's world!?

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

I seriously doubt this scenerio actually happened.

How about slavery, do you doubt that happened?
Do you doubt that Jim Crow laws happened?
Do you doubt that the KKK happened?

What's wrong? You don't want to believe that there are bigoted people in the world?

 

[GSFOR]

WHy should I be offended by my ancestors! The world WAS A much MORE volient place back then! I am Greek but Im Arcadian not Laconian or Athenian. My only problem is that people use their "Modern" values to Judge other and Ancient socities! Before you judge these people try not to use your Modern Values try to think about what type of world it was and how harsh it was in comparstion to today's world!?

That's what im saying. I said that as to illustrate the greek weren't offended, why else was everyone else. I mean the movie also made them seem evil. Those people have a lil too much time on their hands.

 

[Demon Within]

How about slavery, do you doubt that happened?
Do you doubt that Jim Crow laws happened?
Do you doubt that the KKK happened?

What's wrong? You don't want to believe that there are bigoted people in the world?

I doubt a total stranger made it a point to go out of the way to talk to someone who may or may not have any interest in what will be said THEN after recieving a simple nod in response to his question continues on using racial slurs that are frowned upon in modern civilized society.

So a friendly bigot who disregards rude behavior an carries on conversations with complete strangers. Interesting.

An the fact it just so happens help your point.

 

[herakles]

sorry I guess I was preaching to the choir mybad

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

I doubt a total stranger made it a point to go out of the way to talk to someone who may or may not have any interest in what will be said THEN after recieving a simple nod in response to his question continues on using racial slurs that are frowned upon in modern civilized society.

So a friendly bigot who disregards rude behavior an carries on conversations with complete strangers. Interesting.

An the fact it just so happens help your point.

Then you need to pay more attention to reality. People are emboldened to take action when they hear speech that promotes their point of view. Some White supremacist group was sued just because there were some people who attended one of their meetings, and then a few hours later they beat up a black person. They weren't members of the group, they just came to the meeting to hear what was being said, but the lawyers blamed the entire organization for instigating the attack against the black person, and they were successfully sued. David Duke did the same exact thing when some white people were attacked by blacks. He tried to get transcripts of a black church the black attackers regularly attended, to find out if anything was being said at that church that might have instigated the attack. The movie obviously appeals to people's emotions, so it's very easy to believe that at the end someone might be pumped up enough to make anti-black statements. And this was a very early showing of the movie, with about 20 people total in the theater. Most of the moviegoers had left by the time that part of the credits was showing, so the guy didn't really have anyone left to talk to but me. Add to this the fact that Hollywood usually makes whites out to be oppressors, and blacks out to be innocent victims, so that when you have a movie that switches those roles, it's very easy to understand that a white person would feel relief that finally here's a movie that doesn't put down whites, but instead makes whites the heroes.

 

[Demon Within]

Then you need to pay more attention to reality. People are emboldened to take action when they hear speech that promotes their point of view. Some White supremacist group was sued just because there were some people who attended one of their meetings, and then a few hours later they beat up a black person. They weren't members of the group, they just came to the meeting to hear what was being said, but the lawyers blamed the entire organization for instigating the attack against the black person, and they were successfully sued. David Duke did the same exact thing when some white people were attacked by blacks. He tried to get transcripts of a black church the black attackers regularly attended, to find out if anything was being said at that church that might have instigated the attack. The movie obviously appeals to people's emotions, so it's very easy to believe that at the end someone might be pumped up enough to make anti-black statements. And this was a very early showing of the movie, with about 20 people total in the theater. Most of the moviegoers had left by the time that part of the credits was showing, so the guy didn't really have anyone left to talk to but me. Add to this the fact that Hollywood usually makes whites out to be oppressors, and blacks out to be innocent victims, so that when you have a movie that switches those roles, it's very easy to understand that a white person would feel relief that finally here's a movie that doesn't put down whites, but instead makes whites the heroes.

I read the first line but then the wall overtook me.

The first line said nothing about this moviegoer you babbled about so im assuming I am right that your full of **** on your story.

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

I read the first line but then the wall overtook me.

The first line said nothing about this moviegoer you babbled about so im assuming I am right that your full of **** on your story.

It really happened, but you can go on believing that no one in the world is bigoted, whether white or non-white.

 

[jaguarr]

Then you need to pay more attention to reality. People are emboldened to take action when they hear speech that promotes their point of view. Some White supremacist group was sued just because there were some people who attended one of their meetings, and then a few hours later they beat up a black person. They weren't members of the group, they just came to the meeting to hear what was being said, but the lawyers blamed the entire organization for instigating the attack against the black person, and they were successfully sued. David Duke did the same exact thing when some white people were attacked by blacks. He tried to get transcripts of a black church the black attackers regularly attended, to find out if anything was being said at that church that might have instigated the attack. The movie obviously appeals to people's emotions, so it's very easy to believe that at the end someone might be pumped up enough to make anti-black statements. And this was a very early showing of the movie, with about 20 people total in the theater. Most of the moviegoers had left by the time that part of the credits was showing, so the guy didn't really have anyone left to talk to but me. Add to this the fact that Hollywood usually makes whites out to be oppressors, and blacks out to be innocent victims, so that when you have a movie that switches those roles, it's very easy to understand that a white person would feel relief that finally here's a movie that doesn't put down whites, but instead makes whites the heroes.

What you are missing is that the person who supposedly said this racist statement to you after the film was ALREADY racist to begin with and probably looks at EVERYTHING from the viewpoint of how it can support his racist view on life. To the average person watching the film, it doesn't carry a racist sentiment. To the person who's an avid racist or someone who continually looks for signs of racism in everything around them, of COURSE it's going to promote a racist message. EVERYTHING promotes a racist message to someone like that, including breakfast cereal labels, the way the neighbor's dog barks and the color of their lawn.

jag

 

[Demon Within]

It really happened, but you can go on believing that no one in the world is bigoted, whether white or non-white.

Im not saying bigots are not out in the world im saying you are full of **** an one did not randomly come over to you to express how great the movie was then rant how much they hate black people. Your story is a farce, you made it up to further show how your view is correct.

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

It's true that anything can be interpreted as racist to someone who is looking for that, but I think a movie where all the good guys are white, and all the main bad guys are black might make that interpretation a lot easier. I'm not saying this is an out and out racist movie that tells whites to beat up blacks. After all, I know that many members of Xerxes army were light skinned, probably even white, in the movie. But still, when the main bad guys are all black and the good guys are all white, it's easy to read a message into the movie. Especially since Hollywood has gone 99% in the other direction the past few decades, portraying whites as the bad guys and non-whites as the innocent victims. I remember in a Jackie Chan movie, the bad guys were all white, and the main bad guy's name is even Mr. White. How much more blatant can you get? I once mentioned this to an Asian coworker of mine, that it seems that Jackie Chan makes all his bad guys white in his movies, and his response to me was "What's wrong with that?"

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

Im not saying bigots are not out in the world im saying you are full of **** an one did not randomly come over to you to express how great the movie was then rant how much they hate black people. Your story is a farce, you made it up to further show how your view is correct.

I never said he ranted. He made one statement concerning blacks, and that statement was pretty bigoted. It's obvious to me that the movie emboldened him to say that. At one showing of this movie to the press, it received a standing ovation. If a movie can make someone stand up and cheer, it can easily make someone feel comfortable enought to make a bigoted statement to a fellow white person.

 

[jaguarr]

It's true that anything can be interpreted as racist to someone who is looking for that, but I think a movie where all the good guys are white, and all the main bad guys are black might make that interpretation a lot easier. I'm not saying this is an out and out racist movie that tells whites to beat up blacks. After all, I know that many members of Xerxes army were light skinned, probably even white, in the movie. But still, when the main bad guys are all black and the good guys are all white, it's easy to read a message into the movie. Especially since Hollywood has gone 99% in the other direction the past few decades, portraying whites as the bad guys and non-whites as the innocent victims. I remember in a Jackie Chan movie, the bad guys were all white, and the main bad guy's name is even Mr. White. How much more blatant can you get? I once mentioned this to an Asian coworker of mine, that it seems that Jackie Chan makes all his bad guys white in his movies, and his response to me was "What's wrong with that?"

What movie are we talking about exactly, then? Because the main bad guys in "300" weren't black. They were Persian, which is actually Middle Eastern if you want to get technical about it. And the main traitor of the story was a white, hunch-backed Greek, to boot. We're not your Asian coworkers, and this isn't a Jackie Chan movie. You're going out of your way to paint a film as racist when a whole bunch of us really don't see that. You're seeing something that isn't there because you're LOOKING for and WANTING it to be there.

jag

 

[ILikeYourCoat]

You can call them anything you like, they looked black. The messenger who is kicked into the well looked like a black person. The guy with the whip who got his arm sliced off looked very dark-skinned, and could have passed as black to some. King Xerxes looked black too, even though the actor who plays him looks like a white dude if you see him without his makeup. Why did they add all that dark makeup to the guy who played King Xerxes?