Superman Returns "Sorry I was away Mr. President, I won't let you down again..."

[Kabuki_Jo]

But Superman 1&2 were vague histories, Ya Monkey.

So vague Lois has a son of Superman.
When did he get her pregnant?
Humm...Superman 2...yeah!

 

[The Kid]

It's only "possible" that she was impregnated there. Singer said that.

We could assume she was impregnated some time after that though it does contradict the idea that superman has to become weaker before he can do it with lois.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

I just finished watch Superman II on SPACE and as we know that is the last line of the movie. Well since Returns takes place after II, does that mean that Supes let the President down again. I'm still not clear on this plot point, do we know why he left?

Yea he's a liar, a homewrecker, and a dead beat dad... I mean you saw the movie right?

Oh, and he's also a peepin tom!

 

[C. Lee]

Yea he's a liar, a homewrecker, and a dead beat dad... I mean you saw the movie right?

Oh, and he's also a peepin tom!

Yeah...I saw the movie....

He's not a liar (keeping a secret idenity is the same as an undercover cop...a necessary untruth)

He's not a homewrecker (at this point Lois and Richard are still together)

He's not a deadbeat dad (you have to know about a kid and then voluntarily refuse to support them, not don't find about him 6 years after the fact, to be considered deadbeat)

...but he is a peeping tom.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Yeah...I saw the movie....

He's not a liar (keeping a secret idenity is the same as an undercover cop...a necessary untruth)

He's not a homewrecker (at this point Lois and Richard are still together)

He's not a deadbeat dad (you have to know about a kid and then voluntarily refuse to support them, not don't find about him 6 years after the fact, to be considered deadbeat)

...but he is a peeping tom.

lol well 1 out of 4 isn't good!

He still a home a home wrecker IMO because he KNEW about Richard, and Lois, and he still tried to get her back, and if there is a sequel you know she's going to end up leaving Richard for Superman...

So in the end he would be a homewrecker.... Now I will give you the kid because fine he didn't know she was with child when he left, but he's still a liar because he promissed the president he wouldnt leave them again, and then he up, and leaves for 5 years! Only to come back looking 10 years younger, and in a wack new suit lol.

 

[C. Lee]

The whole presidential promise is "iffy" at this time...

1) The new Donner cut coming out on DVD may not have that in it anymore.
2) Singer's vague history and picking only parts of the Reeve movies to use in this one may not have had that scene happen either.

 

[Super Kal]

I have to admit, though, I loved that scene from SII... it just made me swell up inside with pride.

 

[C. Lee]

I have to admit, though, I loved that scene from SII... it just made me swell up inside with pride.

Yeah..it was a good one...but we don't know if Singer considers it as having occured or not.

 

[Lighthouse]

Yeah..it was a good one...but we don't know if Singer considers it as having occured or not.

And thats my whole problem with the vague sequel. I don't know where anything stands. Singer claims to have reintroduced Superman but many of the kids I know who saw the film were confused as hell.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's called "vague history" which has a connection to the previous films but in a vaguely kind of way. It's an "established Superman" film in which there are glimpses of the origin which seems to make it a sequel and yet "vaguely" because it ignores continuity such as: turning back time, Luthor's knowledge of the FOS's location, the mind erasing kiss, Superman letting the President down and so on. It'll be new but, like the suit's \S/, it'll be vague. . . Yes. . . I was being sarcastic.

Luthor does remember where the Fortress of Solitude was in Superman II. How the hell else did he not only manage to find it with ease. But also know how to operate things. Also Kittly says that he acts like he's been there before.

The forgetful kiss may have not been placed out of continuity. Remember that Lois and Clark had a relationship in Superman II and had sex in the Fortress of Solitude. Then Clark gives her the forgetful kiss and she forgets all about it. It Superman Returns she still knows nothing about Clark being Superman or her relationship with Clark and she's with Superman's kid.

Where in the movie does it seem like Superman turning back time was retconned out? Nowhere!

Superman leaving had let down many people. They still needed a savior and he just simply left. Lois was let down that he left without saying good bye. The news media appeared let down for awarding "Why The World Doesn't Need A Superman" a Pulitzer Prize. Who's to say that the President wasn't let down?

The movie even uses the late Marlon Brando as Jor-El, who played as Jor-El in Superman the Movie and Superman II.

The only things that are really different is the new design for Metropolis (which feels more like the Metropolis of the comics instead of New York City) and new cast members playing Superman, Lois Lane, Perry White, Ma Kent, Jimmy Olsen, and Lex Luthor, which in this case was completely impossible to get Christopher Reeve, Margot Kidder, Gene Hackman, Jackie Cooper, Marc McClure, Phyllis Thaxter to return to those roles.

Superman Returns acts more like the new Superman 3 instead of a movie with a vague history. Batman Forever feels more like a vague history movie to Batman and Batman Returns than Superman Returns does to Superman the Movie and Superman II.

 

[The Kid]

It does try to be but ultimately it's not and singer has admited that when he said it's a version of the donner universe. Which version? I don't know. It'll take so long to figure out. Anyway it's either going to link up with the donner cut or it really is an elseworld version of donner's universe. That's what it seems like to me. I just can't and won't believe superman would lie like that to the pres. Superdickery superman would, bad superman of course, but not normal superman.

 

[C. Lee]

It's only "possible" that she was impregnated there. Singer said that.

We could assume she was impregnated some time after that though it does contradict the idea that superman has to become weaker before he can do it with lois.

If the director doesn't have a definative answer to what affects characters and plot....then it's simply a "what if" story...and nothing for me to discuss here.

 

[Immortalfire]

Bryan is never going to live down the term, "vague history".

 

[The Kid]

I think its history is closely linked to this

truth Justice and peace... that would have been better than all that stuff. The american way is peace... well should be peace...

and why can't robin wear some pants? This is why batman begins fanboys mostly hate him.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

I think its history is closely linked to this

truth Justice and peace... that would have been better than all that stuff. The american way is peace... well should be peace...

and why can't robin wear some pants? This is why batman begins fanboys mostly hate him.

lol Batman & Robin have a very strange relationship... It's never sat well with me but whatever.

 

[darthbakpao]

it was different president then.... he's 'free' from his promise since it's a different president now

 

[Spare-Flair]

I just finished watch Superman II on SPACE and as we know that is the last line of the movie. Well since Returns takes place after II, does that mean that Supes let the President down again. I'm still not clear on this plot point, do we know why he left?

No, the last line of the movie is "I've been (pumps) working out".

Yes, Superman let the President down again because Singer is a hack who chose instead to use "vague history". Singer, when asked about Lois losing her memory, said "I ignored that part" So Lois remembers sleeping with Superman.

Superman left earth and therefore Lex Luthor escaped justice at his trial and led to the catastophic events of the film.

BUT as far as why Superman left earth - in the cut scenes, it was clear that Lex Luthor planted the seeds of a fake story that astronomers had discovered Krypton (which didn't blow up as it did in Superman II).

So, really, Superman Returns picks and choses what Singer likes from Superman I and II and discards the rest haphazardly to create a broken and clumsy continuity.

 

[Immortalfire]

No, the last line of the movie is "I've been (pumps) working out".

Yes, Superman let the President down again because Singer is a hack who chose instead to use "vague history". Singer, when asked about Lois losing her memory, said "I ignored that part" So Lois remembers sleeping with Superman.

Superman left earth and therefore Lex Luthor escaped justice at his trial and led to the catastophic events of the film.

BUT as far as why Superman left earth - in the cut scenes, it was clear that Lex Luthor planted the seeds of a fake story that astronomers had discovered Krypton (which didn't blow up as it did in Superman II).

So, really, Superman Returns picks and choses what Singer likes from Superman I and II and discards the rest haphazardly to create a broken and clumsy continuity.

 

[X Knight]

and there's vague sequel/history for you......

Y'know.....if we are all here debating about WHAT EXACTLY fits into Singer's vague history.......that means we are all CONFUSED....and.....well VAGUE!!!!

And if we Superman fans have no clear idea....just imagine how confused the general public is...........i've heard ppl say SR takes place AFTER Superman IV.......

and if there's this amount of confusion.....then that begs one thing........RESTART!!!!!!!

If someone asks Nolan how Begins fits in with the other Bat movies....he simply has to say......."It's a complete restart......a new franchise......has nothing to do with the previous films" Simple......

If someone asks Singer how SR fits in with the other Superman movies......he has to EXPLAIN......"It's a continuation of sorts to Superman 1 and 2.....maybe Superman 2 but I'm not even sure about that.......it ignores Superman 3 and 4......but with S1 and S2......it's a continuation of some parts......but it ignores other parts which I chose to ignore.....?

WTF!!!???

A total restart of the franchise....ala Begins.....would have been sooooo much better....and easier to explain........

 

[thechubbysaint]

Superman is also totally reckless in not protecting his krypton technology.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

He let Bush down again. DarnIt Supes.

ya well Bush let us all down.

 

[C. Lee]

Superman is also totally reckless in not protecting his krypton technology.

I blame it on Jor-El....surely he could have programmed the crystals to only respond to Kryptonian DNA instead of giving up all his secrets to the first person who says - How does this work?

 

[Super Kal]

I blame it on Jor-El....surely he could have programmed the crystals to only respond to Kryptonian DNA instead of giving up all his secrets to the first person who says - How does this work?

I agree with this... it should of beenfingerprint encoded or something.

 

[Spare-Flair]

I agree with this... it should of beenfingerprint encoded or something.

No, this is like a father trusting his son not to leave the car or house keys lying around for anybody to grab. SR's Superman is like a stupid emotional teenager who decides to run away from home and forgets to lock the front door. Dad tries to teach him how to be an adult and give him a little responsibility and he totally messes up over and over again.

The fortress does have security you know? Superman forgot to set the alarm. If you go by the comics, it's a giant key that only Superman can pick up. Even if you go by Donner/Lester, there are Fortress sentries that can only be defeated by Kryptonian calibur house-breakers.

But again, Singer ignores all this and lets Lex waltz right in and play with all the guns in the closet. There's probably enough technology in the Fortress to destroy entire star systems and Superman neglects to lock the front door (as well as to make sure he didn't knock up his girlfriend) before he went trucking across the galaxy.

 

[C. Lee]

No, this is like a father trusting his son not to leave the car or house keys lying around for anybody to grab. SR's Superman is like a stupid emotional teenager who decides to run away from home and forgets to lock the front door. Dad tries to teach him how to be an adult and give him a little responsibility and he totally messes up over and over again.

The fortress does have security you know? Superman forgot to set the alarm. If you go by the comics, it's a giant key that only Superman can pick up. Even if you go by Donner/Lester, there are Fortress sentries that can only be defeated by Kryptonian calibur house-breakers.

But again, Singer ignores all this and lets Lex waltz right in and play with all the guns in the closet. There's probably enough technology in the Fortress to destroy entire star systems and Superman neglects to lock the front door (as well as to make sure he didn't knock up his girlfriend) before he went trucking across the galaxy.

Wow...Miss Teschmacher is a Kryptonian calibur house-breaker!!!

Lex (Gene Hackman) and Miss T. (Valerie Perrine) got into the FOS in Superman II.

Everyone is in such a hurry to jump on the attack Singer bandwagon that they don't see what has gone before.