The Dark Knight Rises Speculative article about 2Face's Fate

[nickyg641]

But she was never asked. Eckhart was SIGNED ON for two movies. I'm almost positive that he will return.

Its almost as if you don't like Two-Face. No matter what proof or point I discuss with you, you always seem to throw it down in some unusually way. I'm giving you proof and speculation that he might not be dead and that you never known until the next film, but no matter what, its as if you don't want him to return. Do you not like Two-Face?

I'm sorry, the article you posted won't open on my internet right now. Did it mention him being contracted for two films? I've never heard that before.

All I'm saying is, all things official seem to point towards his death. The script, the novelization. The only thing I've seen to the contrary (unless I see that he is indeed contracted for two films) is Lindy Hemming's comment about it being ambiguous.

 

[HereToComment27]

I didn't say it truly confirmed anything, but the possibilty is there. And Alfred Molina only signed on for one Spider-Man, although I know that Tyler Mane signed on for two X-Men.

 

[HereToComment27]

Yes, it did say he was signed on for two movies. Which doesn't mean that he will retunr, but the possibilty is there. Nolan specifically did this on purpose. He was like "I'm going to leave Two-Face's death optional, that way, until the next film, all the fans will fight and kill each other over the fact if he is dead or not". And he is laughing right now, I'm sure of it. LOL

But seriously, Two-Face's death is optional.

 

[Venom 1988]

I didn't say it truly confirmed anything, but the possibilty is there. And Alfred Molina only signed on for one Spider-Man, although I know that Tyler Mane signed on for two X-Men.

No he signed on for two, he talked about it in a interview after Spider-Man 2 came out

 

[j-syxx]

^ If he was supposed to die they probably changed it after what happened to Ledger. His death at the ending of this movie is about conclusive as the ending to Halloween. I'm pretty confident he will return, especially if he signed on for two films.

 

[HereToComment27]

^ If he was supposed to die they probably changed it after what happened to Ledger. His death at the ending of this movie is about conclusive as the ending to Halloween. I'm pretty confident he will return, especially if he signed on for two films.

Thank you! Someone who actually agrees with me!

 

[Doc Block]

I don't know how you can say that Dent's neck was "obviously" not broken. What were you looking for- half a meter of spine sticking out at the base of his head? A neck can be broken and still look relatively normal. Remembering that scene, it looked pretty loose when Bats turned Harvey's head side to side. I think they made it as definitive as they could while keeping the PG13 rating. Tossed in a funeral scene, too, for good measure. In case we hadn't figured it out.

Looking at the character from a storytelling perspective, it simply wouldn't do any good to have him return. Like others have said, it would take away from everything that happened in this film. Harvey needed to die, and he did. I wish he could return, but doing so would leave a big bruise on the Nolan series that I don't think audiences could forgive.

 

[jmc]

Harvey Dent/Two Face story is over, the character's arc is complete, having him come back for a third film serves no purpose regardless of how many films Eckhart was signed on for. Dent was a tragic character and his story concluded the same way all tragic characters do, with his death. A lot of people are just in denial.

 

[Ishmayl]

jmc said it best. No matter how much you love a character, that doesn't matter if they aren't needed for a third movie, or if their story has been completely told.

And quite frankly, maybe Eckhart has signed on for 2 movies, and maybe he will appear in the third. What's to stop flashbacks (remember, the first half of Batman Begins was basically a bunch of flashbacks) from showing Dent? That doesn't mean we'll see Dent tossing a coin up for 2.5 hours in the next Batman.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

How is his death as inconclusive as the end of Halloween?

At the end of Halloween, Michael Myers' body is gone. Vanished from where he fell. At the end of TDK, Harvey Dent's body remains laying there for 5 minutes, with a memorial service following.

I said it before in the other thread - if Harvey was alive, then why the hell wouldn't Gordon or Batman be trying to help him? Instead, they stand around for an hour talking about his legacy and how to keep it alive. If he's alive, he's at least critically injured, and needs immediate medical attention.

Plus, what happens to Dent if he's alive? Gordon hauling him to Arkham in secret seems to be everyone's pet theory. But that's impossible. Batman's taken the wrap for Harvey's crimes, because Gordon can't keep a lid on the whole dirty business. With Dent alive, he'd still have his hands full keeping a lid on it, and Batman's sacrifice would be for naught.

If Nolan wanted the death to be ambiguous, there'd be no body. Dent is laying there dead as a doornail; Batman (or Gordon, I forget) even turns his head over to the good side. You don't think he'd hear a heartbeat?

But most importantly, Two-Face doesn't need to appear again. He really doesn't. Anything beyond this would do nothing but cheapen TDK. Nolan said everything there needs to be said about Two-Face in this movie. Where would he go from here? He's gotten his revenge on Maroni, he's judged Gordon and Batman, he won't be going after the Joker (since I doubt the Joker will be returning) - all that's left for him is to be the generic gimmicky "I rob places with "2" in the name" criminal.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but come on. These theories wouldn't exist if this wasn't a fan-centric movie like Batman. You didn't hear people going "I think Jack is still alive" after watching Titanic. You want to wish for the best because you want more because you love these characters. But you're coming from the comic standpoint where these characters have been killed and ressurrected a million times in 70 years - because they have to, because the comics need to recycle villians to keep sales up. Movies aren't like that; if you get three movies in a series, you're lucky. Nolan doesn't need to reuse any villians, unless for throwaway cameos (like Scarecrow) or if the story really calls for it. Two-Face's story is over. It was great; you don't want it dragged on.

 

[HereToComment27]

Harvey Dent/Two Face story is over, the character's arc is complete, having him come back for a third film serves no purpose regardless of how many films Eckhart was signed on for. Dent was a tragic character and his story concluded the same way all tragic characters do, with his death. A lot of people are just in denial.

You can not be truly sure if he is dead. A motionless body is not a corpse, and in the film it is never truly stated if Dent is dead or not. He fell about thirty feet straight onto his back. I have seen this happen before on such shows as the Worlds Most Amazing Videos, Most Daring and other shows of this type. So, it is quite possible to fall that distance and live.

And his story/character arc is not completed. That’s the thing about movies and comics; you can keep going and going with them. So, if he was to return in the third, Nolan could write in a whole new agenda for him, you never know.

And yes, his character in the film TDK was the most tragic. But still, that does not mean he would not return for a third Batman film. The third Batman film needs to be about redemption. Having Batman redeem himself in the eyes of the public and to all of Gotham, making them realize that he is the hero that they both need and deserve. Harvey Two-Face would fit well into this. (But this is just my suggestion and opinion)

No one is really in denial. When I saw that you wrote that I laughed. But seriously, no one is in denial. Just because some don't think that he dead does not mean that we are denying it. It was left unclear if he was dead or alive. I could just as easily say that you are in denial to the fact that he could have possibly lived. But, you never know.

 

[j-syxx]

Yeah a motionless body on the ground after a fall = dead for sure. Have you guys read any comic books or seen any action movies in your entire life? Saying it's open to interpretation is one thing, but saying it's a fact he's dead is just naive.

 

[Katsuro]

Yeah a motionless body on the ground after a fall = dead for sure. Have you guys read any comic books or seen any action movies in your entire life? Saying it's open to interpretation is one thing, but saying it's a fact he's dead is just naive.

You're right. And crappy two-bit writer/director could come in and write a third movie where Two-Face is still alive. It would be plausible, and reasonable, and even realistic. However, it would also be terrible.

The reason Two-Face is definatley dead isn't because he looked dead, or because it's more realistic for him not to survive, but because bringing him back would be terrible storytelling.

Nolan is not a terrible storyteller. He killed Two-Face off for thematic reasons, that would be completely obliterated with some cheesy as hell "oh no he was really alive!" retcon for the third movie.

 

[jmc]

You can not be truly sure if he is dead. A motionless body is not a corpse, and in the film it is never truly stated if Dent is dead or not. He fell about thirty feet straight onto his back. I have seen this happen before on such shows as the Worlds Most Amazing Videos, Most Daring and other shows of this type. So, it is quite possible to fall that distance and live.

You're using Worlds Most Amazing Video's as an example? This is what I'm talking about, fans trying to find ways around his death to keep hope that he may return for film three, that's denial.

And his story/character arc is not completed. That’s the thing about movies and comics; you can keep going and going with them. So, if he was to return in the third, Nolan could write in a whole new agenda for him, you never know.

And what agenda could that be? The character has served it's purpose, Batman is on the run after taking the blame, Dent's death is what's helping to keep the city together, he's the 'White Knight who died so valiantly trying to help the city'. What justification is there to bring the character back? The character was as such: good old American boy trying to do the right thing -> loses everything he loved and is hideously scared -> blames everyone and takes vengeance them -> gets killed but good guy legacy lives on. It's a tragic, simple and complete story arc.

And yes, his character in the film TDK was the most tragic. But still, that does not mean he would not return for a third Batman film. The third Batman film needs to be about redemption. Having Batman redeem himself in the eyes of the public and to all of Gotham, making them realize that he is the hero that they both need and deserve. Harvey Two-Face would fit well into this. (But this is just my suggestion and opinion)

So Dent return and then what? Batman just gets let off the hook, the people of Gotham turn on Dent? Where have they been hiding Dent? Why go to such length to protect him? Dent tries to become the White Knight again? It's cheap story telling to bring him back, it's more like something from the Batman TV series.

No one is really in denial. When I saw that you wrote that I laughed. But seriously, no one is in denial. Just because some don't think that he dead does not mean that we are denying it. It was left unclear if he was dead or alive. I could just as easily say that you are in denial to the fact that he could have possibly lived. But, you never know.

What else do you need? There was a lifeless body and funeral service, do you need to see autopsy papers? The thing is people expected Two Face to be a film three villain and are now so desperate to see the character continue they are resorting to making themselves believe that there is the possibility the character is still alive. Nolan pulled the rug out from under everyone, and most just don't want to believe it.

 

[j-syxx]

You're right. And crappy two-bit writer/director could come in and write a third movie where Two-Face is still alive. It would be plausible, and reasonable, and even realistic. However, it would also be terrible.

The reason Two-Face is definatley dead isn't because he looked dead, or because it's more realistic for him not to survive, but because bringing him back would be terrible storytelling.

Nolan is not a terrible storyteller. He killed Two-Face off for thematic reasons, that would be completely obliterated with some cheesy as hell "oh no he was really alive!" retcon for the third movie.

Then again if he really wanted to kill him off, then why not do it in a more obvious fashion? I don't think it would necessarily be bad story-telling if the real Dent was locked up in Arkham, and he escaped. Two Face didn't get enough screen time in the Dark Knight, so having him involved in another film would be an obvious decision.

Note it wouldn't be Dent coming back, it would be "Two Face."

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Then again if he really wanted to kill him off, then why not do it in a more obvious fashion? I don't think it would necessarily be bad story-telling if the real Dent was locked up in Arkham, and he escaped. Two Face didn't get enough screen time in the Dark Knight, so having him involved in another film would be an obvious decision.

Note it wouldn't be Dent coming back, it would be "Two Face."

How much more obvious could his death have been? Should his head have fallen off?

The Joker (89)'s was an obvious death. Ra's was a less than obvious death (no body). The old addage is, if there's no body - watch out. But in Two-Face's case, there was a body.

If he wanted to keep Two-Face alive, he would've gone with a much more ambiguous ending, like him falling into a pit never to be seen again. But Nolan spent five minutes of screentime with Dent's lifeless body just laying there. That shows obvious intent.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

what if... ???
(if there were to be a reappearces of Dent)
that instead of returning just as twoface, he returns as The Judge
like in the The New Batman Adventures: Judgment Day
which had him develop another superego (that he himself didn't even know about)

 

[crazyrabbits]

I believe he's dead.

D.E.A.D.

 

[Closerframe]

There's everyone's proof, hes dead. It was even said by the character during his dialouge with Gordan.

 

[Zooks]

Two-Face won't return... however, it doesn't mean he is dead.
Nolan is giving his villains comic-book deaths, where in the comics, they could easily be alive.

Ra's should be alive throughout most of Batman's adventures. So he died a death with a gateway of escape (several seconds) that in the comics would give an opportunity to keep him alive. However, I doubt Ra's would return in the movies because it would take away from the realism, but the hypothetical option is there. The Joker suffers many probable deaths in the comics only to return.
Two-Face is in the same boat. He could easily be alive, but his arc is over and Two-Face appearing again is probably not required. In a comic, to be presumed dead usually means a return but in the movies, I doubt they'd return. It upsets nolan's realism. If you interpret them to be alive, it doesn't contradict nolan but it sets up the future batman universe of the comics anyway.

 

[GL1]

I always think it's amazing when people claim that Two-Face is not dead. Didn't they check the body to see if it was alive and get nothing? Doesn't the whole end of the movie hinge on him being dead?

I can see 'he could be alive'... same could be said for Ra's really... he 'could' be alive...

But should he? Why? Do we really need to see a character beheaded to let them go?

 

[Grommers]

Two-face, two-lives.

i rest my case.

 

[Fitzwilliam]

No, I know what you are talking about. And just because the script says so, doesn't mean that it is so. Many times there are last minute changes to comply with shooting or new ideas. And this is one of them. Personally, I don't think Two-Face is dead, but we will just have to wait and see.

Um... If a change was made in the script prior to a scene being shot... It would be changed in the script. Then the scene would be shot. After the film is released, you then get the shooting script.... That script reflects all the changes, apart from ad libs.

To be honest with you, have such a prominent character live rather than die would be a pretty big ad lib, don't you think!?

Script says he's dead. Neck Broken. Script says Gordon speaks at his FUNERAL, not a memorial. DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.

DEAD. Dead as Princess Dianna dead.

 

[Fitzwilliam]

Two-face, two-lives.

i rest my case.

There are holes in your argument. Technically a skin disfigurement doesn't afford you a second life. Medical science hasn't progressed that far and in fact your argument flies in the face of reason.

How about this...

Two eyes, two lives.

I rest my case.

 

[Fitzwilliam]

Two-Face won't return... however, it doesn't mean he is dead.
Nolan is giving his villains comic-book deaths, where in the comics, they could easily be alive.

No... Ra's had a comic book death.

Dent broke his neck and his body was seen and checked by two of the protagonists. They also had a funeral. A comic book death means there is no body. Here there was a body. DEAD.