Comics Spider-man's reverted...

[ragingdemon155]

My connection with the character isn't what it use to be. Now I've had other issues with the direction that Marvel is taking the title. I use to think that the "Lack of a marriage" was my main problem but really looking at it now...it isn't. The main issue I have is the character of Spider-man. I can't remember ever seeing him written this childishly and immaturely. I understand that Marvel is trying to make him young again and revert his character. I'm wondering what are other people's take on the reboot of the "character's" personality, not the title itself.

Everyone's interpretation of what Spider-man should be is different. Personally I've always thought of him as a wise cracking individual who could get serious when the moment arouse. He's not Deadpool.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

You don't even hafta ask. You could look around anywhere on the hype and see the answers. But, long story short, that's why I stopped reading the book along with the unneeded retcon. The book was a lot more mature in the 70s, which they're trying to emulate.

 

[Meehaul]

Love the book. It's better, imho, than it's been in years. I hated the marriage, no secret there, especially to MJ. But the recent Rhino stories and the "faked photo" are a good example of Pete at his best/worst. And they also demonstrate why Pete is neither immature nor childish. He tries to help JJJ, but winds up hurting himself because he faked the photo. Faking the photo wasn't a childish thing to do--it was a consciouus, deliberate risk Pete took to help someone he loathes. He believed, despite the "trickery" that it was the right thing to do--something like Abraham telling the soldiers that Sarah was his sister, not his wife. While we can debate whether Pete "should" have done that, it was a risk on his part, a risk taken to save someone else.

Similarly, he tries to help an old foe, the Rhino, but winds up inadvertently sending him back over the edge--and killing his love as well. This Pete, who tries to do the right thing--indeed, makes a conscious, calculated decision to do something that will save someone else's life, but it blows up in his face--is much more relatable to me than the Pete married to a supermodel/actress.

While I didn't love the idea of Pete sleeping with the Black Cat casually or getting drunk at May's wedding, both those instances are at least recognizably human. He regretted the drinking. He also recognized that maybe sleeping with someone that only cares about him when he's got the mask on is not such a great idea.

To me, the more interesting Pete has been the "heroic" Pete who nevertheless ocassionally makes stupid choices, even if done with the best of intentions, that result in calamity for his life. I thought JMS was a teriffic writer, but hated all those mystical spider-totem stories that, for me, ruined the character's origins (I also hated the whole Goblin Twins nonsense). I didn't love the way they ended the marriage--I would have much preferred Marvel simply killing off MJ, who'd become a bit of a static character who was going nowhere, rather than the whole "mephisto deal," but I could at least understand the nature of the sacrifice Pete was making.

Unless Marvel were willing to take the plunge by aging Pete in the normal (or near normal) way, I'm glad they brought him back to being a single, somewhat isolated individual. To me, Pete was all about tragedy and loss (hard to imagine when you're married to a beautiful supermodel/actress) and Spider-Man was all about victory over any and every obstacle.

To me, the books are better than they've been in ages. My main complaint is that without the consistency of a single writer/artist team, the book's "look" has been pretty chaotic and the storylines not quite as smooth as I was used to with a 1x per monthy book.

 

[JoeKerr86]

^ I'm the exact opposite. I was pro-marriage all the way and I loved when Peter was a teacher instead of only being a photographer. These current stories are basically retreads of the past but with updated dialogue and pop culture references. If there's anything this title doesn't need, it's to have people act like they do in real life...today. NONE of the characters are relateable or entertaining to read.

 

[Themanofbat]

I liked that Peter Parker was a teacher as well.... it's too bad they didn't do anything with it...

 

[Meehaul]

opps

 

[Meehaul]

Ugh, the teacher thing was the worst. Aside from "aging" him, it was boring. Those stories went nowhere. The guy's a genius and the best he can do is become a middle school teacher? And he's supposed to be something of an anti-social/loner and he selects the most social of professions (except for sales)--teaching? Even if it were grad students, that might have been interesting. But highschoolers/middle schoolers? Yuck. Not to mention the fact he disappears for days on end and teachers have to be there, if nothing else. But, that's just my opinion and I certainly respect others' differing views.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Here's the thing, though: the teacher thing? That was forward change. Everything now? Backward change, which isn't change at all.

 

[Themanofbat]

How is EVERYTHING a backward change?

New characters, new villains, revamps to older characters, older characters making appearances, ie Sha Shan, Peter Parker faking a photo to save Jonah, etc...

Sure, some of this stuff might resemble stuff from the past, but that has to be expected when a character has been around for nearly 50 years... Both Batman and Superman went through 2 revamps by the time they hit 50, and have gone through a few more since...

At least with the current direction, they're attempting to maintain what has happened in the past... which is far better than what we read from their Distinguished Competition, which is simply rinse and repeat.

And saying that making Peter a teacher is a "forward change" is only REAL change if they do something with it... all it was was something to make the fans say "cool... what a great idea" and then simply left them thinking that even up to this day and then taking the stories nowhere... at least PAD "tried" to make a supporting cast from the school about 4 years later, and Sarcosa had one excellent story about one of Peter's kids after he was unmasked... JMS, the creator of said "cool idea", did sweet **** all with this "forward change"...lolz

 

[Meehaul]

Pete could come out of the closet and marry Flash in Vermont. That would be change as well. It might even be an interesting change. But most would think it was not a credible, or enjoyable, evolution of the character. People got all hot & bothered when Pete got drunk or when Pete seemed to be sleeping around. All those things are "changes" as well. Change is not necessarily a good thing, nor does it necessarily make the character more interesting. JMS is a great writer, made some wild changes to character, but most were changes I could have lived without.

 

[kguillou]

I thought the teacher angle was the best thing they did with the character in ages and its a shame they undid it. Peter Parker is NOT an anti-social individual. Peter has always been very social and had a large cast of friends. Peter stopped being a lonely nerd sometime around Amazing Spider-man #50. Ever since then Peter's been constantly growing and growing and now it does seem like the editorial is going out of its way to make Peter more "youthful". I've simply come to the conclusion that its not for me. I grew up in the 90's with the "wisecracking yet serious" Spider-man and thats the spiderman i fell i love with. He was portrayed similarly on the 90's Animated series as well. But now, spiderman really is more akin to Deadpool these days, and its just not for me. I'm not saying its bad, its just not the spidey i used to love. I still see JMS as the last great Spider-man writer because he really tapped into that "witty maturity" that i used to love about Peter Parker.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Ugh, the teacher thing was the worst. Aside from "aging" him, it was boring. Those stories went nowhere. The guy's a genius and the best he can do is become a middle school teacher? And he's supposed to be something of an anti-social/loner and he selects the most social of professions (except for sales)--teaching? Even if it were grad students, that might have been interesting. But highschoolers/middle schoolers? Yuck. Not to mention the fact he disappears for days on end and teachers have to be there, if nothing else. But, that's just my opinion and I certainly respect others' differing views.

What? Peter Parker is anti-social? I guess that's why he's had such a tiny supporting cast throughout his history

And as far as I'm concerned, Peter Parker is not a genius. He is smart, sure, but just majoring in chemistry doesn't make you a genius. Did he even finish his masters? How could he teach grad students if he's only a few years older than them and never did anything with his degree (which Im not certain he actually went up to)

And seriously, you are really hating on the teaching profession. Do you think everyone who teaches high school is some kind of failure or idiot? I have many friends and family that have achieved their masters or bachelors in education to teach middle and high school students. It is not as easy as you seem to think. The fact that Peter was able to get the job was more a reflection on how desperate the school system was for teachers.

Being a high school teacher is no more pathetic and or lame than being a part-time photographer.

 

[Meehaul]

I probably did sound a bit harsh on teachers, which I didn't mean to. Being a teacher isn't pathetic or lame. It is a noble calling. An important calling. Just not a terribly interesting one for a adventure-inspired character. At least, it was not written in an interesting way. Besides, it made Pete seem "old," which if you like the idea of a maturing character is fine.

As to Pete's intellect, he used to be a genius, created web shooters, etc. Marvel kind of dumbed him down over the years, I guess. I enjoyed it when he was in college and grad school. Made for a more interesting mix of stories.

I'm old school, I guess. Much of Pete's supporting cast were not really "friends," they tended to be competitors, mentors, or people who turned out to be enemies. Pete never had a Foggy Nelson or Jimmy Olsen, or anything of that ilk. His core supporting cast over the years was, what: Aunt May (the person who centered his life and reminded him of his responsibilities), MJ/Felicia/Gwen/Beatty/Liz (the girl friend), Harry (the antagonist/friend), Robbie (the quasi-mentor), JJJ (the antagonist), Flash (the competitor), Johnny & Matt (super hero friends)...not exactly a group of social butterflies. Once he got married, in fact, the supporting cast sort of fell by the wayside and it focused on MJ, with Aunt May and JJJ being peripheral constants. I like the attempt Marvel is making to bring some new blood into the fold. I wish they'd really bring Flash back, because I think it would be interesting to focus on the friendship of a character who is handicapped and one who is a super hero. Makes for an interesting juxtaposition. Even so, Pete has tended to be a loner over the years. He tended to push people away because of his alter ego. Thats one of the problems I've had with the Ultimate books: Pete was a cool ladies man in high school with a score of friends. The loser, isolated, but good kid Pete who operated at the margins of society always held more interest for me. John Romita, Sr, while a great artist, "beautified" everyone and, on Stan's orders, led Pete into the Gwen relationship. I always thought it was a more interesting dichotomy to have a character who was this amazing hero on one hand, but sort of a loner, marginal person (at least, in society's eyes) on the other. I didn't dig the whole "loveable loser" persona, I liked the tragic nature of Pete's life. The loss of his parents, his uncle...the lack of friends on whom he could rely...that made the character unique. I think that's why I disliked the marriage to MJ so much...Marvel took the quintessential loner/tragic figure and married him off to a gorgeous super model/actress party girl.

 

[kguillou]

The funny thing is, you say Peter Parker's never had a "Foggy Nelson" yet Matt Murdock is much more of a loner than Peter ever was. I see what you're saying with Peter being an isolated loner yet this amazing hero at the same time, but i think Stan Lee and Romita Sr. made a good choice in making Peter grow beyond that persona and learn to talk to women and date and slowly become a man. Peter's one of the few characters in comics thats really shown immense character progression throughout the decades other than i guess Dick Grayson or Cyclops.

I get the fact that Marvel wants to preserve Peter's youthfulness, i really do, its just that its been proven that an older Peter Parker can work just as well as a young one. I mean hey, everyone loved the Spiderman Animated Series in the 90's right? That show brought in a TON of new spiderman fans and that show had an older peter parker who eventually got married etc etc. Thats the spider-man i fell in love with, but i guess with the success of Ultimate Spiderman, Marvel figured everyone favors a younger Peter Parker and thats what they're giving us in BND. Its simply just not for me i guess.

 

[Meehaul]

Sure, I understand that. The difficulty with the recent (pre-BND) Pete was that he was sort of stuck going no-where as a married guy. Marvel wouldn't let him have kids, really, because kids grow up and "age" the character. People did like the 90's Spider-Man show, up until the point they had him finally hook up with MJ. It died shortly thereafter. While it followed a natural arc, it was an arc...and could not be sustained as a continuing series. Even with JMS writing the book, MJ had grown pretty two-dimensional. JMS instead played with the characters origins and history (in a bad way, imho).

Inevitably, Marvel is going to arrest the character's development at some point, and I prefer they do it as a younger, single guy than as an older, married guy. But I sympathize with folks who preferred the married version. I was in the wilderness for a long time when Pete was married and going no where. I think I could have enjoyed it more (even though I trudged on and kept reading the books) had he been married to someone more suited to him or if Marvel had taken the plunge and really allowed him to age like a normal person (more or less). I just don't think that's in the cards, though. An interesting book that came out not too long ago was "The Last Days of Animal Man," which deals with an aging super hero. This is, of course, an "alternate universe" type tale and not what either Marvel or DC wants to have happen with its characters. But it does give an interesting perspective on the aging superhero.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

The funny thing is, you say Peter Parker's never had a "Foggy Nelson" yet Matt Murdock is much more of a loner than Peter ever was. I see what you're saying with Peter being an isolated loner yet this amazing hero at the same time, but i think Stan Lee and Romita Sr. made a good choice in making Peter grow beyond that persona and learn to talk to women and date and slowly become a man. Peter's one of the few characters in comics thats really shown immense character progression throughout the decades other than i guess Dick Grayson or Cyclops.

I get the fact that Marvel wants to preserve Peter's youthfulness, i really do, its just that its been proven that an older Peter Parker can work just as well as a young one. I mean hey, everyone loved the Spiderman Animated Series in the 90's right? That show brought in a TON of new spiderman fans and that show had an older peter parker who eventually got married etc etc. Thats the spider-man i fell in love with, but i guess with the success of Ultimate Spiderman, Marvel figured everyone favors a younger Peter Parker and thats what they're giving us in BND. Its simply just not for me i guess.

Would that be the hugely successful cartoon show that was cancelled the year they married him? A marriage the writer tried to retcon?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

My connection with the character isn't what it use to be. Now I've had other issues with the direction that Marvel is taking the title. I use to think that the "Lack of a marriage" was my main problem but really looking at it now...it isn't. The main issue I have is the character of Spider-man. I can't remember ever seeing him written this childishly and immaturely. I understand that Marvel is trying to make him young again and revert his character. I'm wondering what are other people's take on the reboot of the "character's" personality, not the title itself.

Everyone's interpretation of what Spider-man should be is different. Personally I've always thought of him as a wise cracking individual who could get serious when the moment arouse. He's not Deadpool.

Yes...i stayed with the books for well over a year after OMD, and then sort of just....faded away. Just not my cup of tea anymore.

On the other hand; I'm mildly stoked about the new Team-Up book with Wolverine, and curious to see If Spidey will remain an Avenger....

 

[MRExposure]

I don't understand how fans of Spidey come to the conclusion that the guy is a loner.

He's always, always had a network of friends, and in social situations he's wise cracking.

In the beginning he had awkwardness and there were misunderstandings in his college years.

But c'mon, Peter definately is no loner. He LIKES to hang out with people, and sometimes the only reason he doesn't hang out with people more is being Spidey gets in the way.

His sociability has been emphasized so many times over the years.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hey Deadpool can be serious when he has to be! Deep down he is a tragic guy who hates himself. He just acts a fool as a defense mechanism and to excuse his overall *****ey demeanour.

Anyway... I do dislike a lot of things about the new Spider-Man status quo. But there is somethings i do like. Not being bogged down with melodramatic relationship issues is one of them. And it's cool to see Spidey not as angsty anymore.

But the teacher thing was a good idea, they should have kept that.

 

[MRExposure]

I loved the teacher angle and felt they didn't do enough with it.

They won't go for that angle now.

Anything that progresses the character is out the window.

 

[Themanofbat]

Anything that progresses the character is out the window.

heh heh... It must be true when they say that ignorance is bliss... lolz...

 

[MRExposure]

They're too afraid of making the character appear too "old", thus he must remain static, thus no progression.

 

[Themanofbat]

In my opinion, you can progress any character without necessarily making him "old"...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I just think it would of been cool to Spider-Man actually become... a man. A full grown man not young man.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

In my opinion, you can progress any character without necessarily making him "old"...

I mean, I don't want to call you out, but didn't you once complain about Ultimate Spider-Man for the fact that Bendis said he wasn't going to age Peter Parker in his stories?



Yeah, I did want to you call you out. I wanted you to feel exposed, vulnerable. It gets me off.