Comics Post-OMD: Amazing Spider-Man vs. Ultimate Spider-Man

[J. J. Jameson]

It used to be a chore to read Spider-Man before BND...

Not before Sins Past, the Other, OMD, and the like. "Coming Home", "Revelations", "Until the Stars Turn Cold"...heck, even the "Digger" arc. Save for the spider-totem junk, Spider-Man was on fire. That was when Peter Parker felt like Peter Parker. And Pete and MJ were split up. Not by some cosmic act of the devil, but just because they needed their space. These were good stories.

 

[Themanofbat]

Not before Sins Past, the Other, OMD, and the like. "Coming Home", "Revelations", "Until the Stars Turn Cold"...heck, even the "Digger" arc. Save for the spider-totem junk, Spider-Man was on fire. That was when Peter Parker felt like Peter Parker. And Pete and MJ were split up. Not by some cosmic act of the devil, but just because they needed their space. These were good stories.

Yes, they were... but I wouldn't say that Spider-Man was on fire... they were well-crafted tales, but in retrospect, they probably looked AS good because they were coming off the heels of the relaunch, which was 2 1/2 years of bad writing, and then prior to that we had the Clone Saga, which ran way too long, and we had to put up with a needless Norman Osborn ressurection... with a few exceptions here and there, reading Spider-Man comics was not that much "fun"... and in MY opinion, they are currently fun to read, which pleases me very much.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

"Coming Home", "Revelations", "Until the Stars Turn Cold"...heck, even the "Digger" arc.

I do agree that those stories were great and the art by John Romita Jr. was fantastic to, but BND is basically just as enjoyable. I mean, BND has a classic Spidey feeling to it, although, the past stories such as Sins Past, The Other, Skin Deep, etc, they really didn't give me a classic Spidey feeling. Now, we all love the classic 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's Spider-Man comics, so I really think it's a great thing that we are getting references, and storie types that somewhat resemble what the old stories were like.

 

[Venom 1988]

Not before Sins Past, the Other, OMD, and the like. "Coming Home", "Revelations", "Until the Stars Turn Cold"...heck, even the "Digger" arc. Save for the spider-totem junk, Spider-Man was on fire. That was when Peter Parker felt like Peter Parker. And Pete and MJ were split up. Not by some cosmic act of the devil, but just because they needed their space. These were good stories.

Agreed I loved JMS's run from all the way until Sins Past. It was him that got me back into Spidey comics. And I don't know why people give him crap about the Totem stuff. All it did was bring in a "possible" origin of his powers. Through out it, Peter kept on leaning towards science rather than supernatural, even after Ezekial died.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

...and we had to put up with a needless Norman Osborn ressurection...

[cough]Harry[/cough]

Agreed I loved JMS's run from all the way until Sins Past. It was him that got me back into Spidey comics. And I don't know why people give him crap about the Totem stuff. All it did was bring in a "possible" origin of his powers. Through out it, Peter kept on leaning towards science rather than supernatural, even after Ezekial died.

I do admit that it gave a certain kind of contrast between the two characters (Peter and Ezekiel) and strengthened the stories. You have Peter, who was the victim of an accident and suddenly had to deal with powers and responsibility, all the while wanting only to be accepted like everyone else. And then you had Ezekiel...he pursued power through darker, less noble methods and certainly with less noble intentions. I think one of the reasons he would have been so insistent on the "spider-totem" explanation for Peter's powers was because Ezekiel couldn't fully comprehend the level of selflessness Peter expressed every time he put on the costume.

 

[kguillou]

Man those were the days, JMS injected Spider-man books with fresh air. And when i say "fresh" i mean "fresh", Peter Parker/Spider-man FELT new yet classic also at the same time. JMS was able to make ASM feel like a 21st century comic book, BND feels like its stuck in the 80's.

 

[Themanofbat]

Man those were the days, JMS injected Spider-man books with fresh air. And when i say "fresh" i mean "fresh", Peter Parker/Spider-man FELT new yet classic also at the same time. JMS was able to make ASM feel like a 21st century comic book, BND feels like its stuck in the 80's.

In my opinion, JMS' Spider-Man had never felt "classic" to me... better written stories, yes... but not "classic".

And personally, anybody coming on board as a writer after the Mackie era will look like gold in my opinion... that's not to take away from JMS' writing, I do enjoy his work, but I think his first issues really went smooth because we had become accustomed to Mackie garbage for almost 3 years.

And in MY opinion, BND does not feel stuck in any era... it has a nice retro feel with a modern setting, which is nice.

Again... merely my opinion.

Cheers...

 

[Themanofbat]

[cough]Harry[/cough]

I'm not going to dispute that... when I first saw Harry back, I was rolling my eyes so hard that I got a migraine.

BUT... as read in the most recent interview, all is not so well with Harry's return, and I've heard mumblings that Harry's return is the price you pay for dealing with the devil (a Harry/Mary Jane relationship reunion maybe???... remember, they did date for a while), so I'm going to wait on Harry's return to see if it is as unecessary as we might think it is.

Cheers...

 

[kguillou]

I respect your opinion TMOB, lol. But the thing that bothers me most about BND is the dialogue. Dialogue was something that JMS was a genius in, but so far Slott, Guggenheim, and Gale have been churning out some really cheesy, corny and outdated dialogue for the characters. " You're a menace spider-man! Jameson was right about you!". COME ON! Thats soooo corny and outdated, the people of the MU dont talk like that any more. JMS' dialogue sounded mature and updated, BND's dialogue is just dated.

 

[Themanofbat]

I respect your opinion TMOB, lol. But the thing that bothers me most about BND is the dialogue. Dialogue was something that JMS was a genius in, but so far Slott, Guggenheim, and Gale have been churning out some really cheesy, corny and outdated dialogue for the characters. " You're a menace spider-man! Jameson was right about you!". COME ON! Thats soooo corny and outdated, the people of the MU dont talk like that any more. JMS' dialogue sounded mature and updated, BND's dialogue is just dated.

Maybe you've outgrown the dialogue...

Remember when we were kids, that was comic dialogue... and it was fun and cool as kids. But at some point, the comics can't grow alongside us... we have to make adjustments or move on. JMS' dialogue was terrific... for an adult... but it was quite boring for a kid (as my 9 year old will attest to...), but he's really digging BND, and so am I (because I've yet to grow up and/or mature ), because the corny dialogue makes the comic fun again.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I respect your opinion TMOB, lol. But the thing that bothers me most about BND is the dialogue. Dialogue was something that JMS was a genius in, but so far Slott, Guggenheim, and Gale have been churning out some really cheesy, corny and outdated dialogue for the characters. " You're a menace spider-man! Jameson was right about you!". COME ON! Thats soooo corny and outdated, the people of the MU dont talk like that any more. JMS' dialogue sounded mature and updated, BND's dialogue is just dated.

I enjoy the dialogue in BND. I never really found it cheesy or anything. I mean, I really do think JMS did a great job with the dialogue, but so has Slott, Guggenheim, and Gale and quite frankly, it does remind me of the older Spidey comics. That's jsut my opinion though, kguillou.

 

[kguillou]

The scary thing is, I think you guys are right. I think i am slowly outgrowing spider-man and that scares me. Spidey has always been my favorite comic book character, but nowadays I find that my favorite is Daredevil, because he's mostly a darker, edgier version of spider-man. I guess as you grow and mature you tend to become more interested in more mature material. Like it or not, i guess Quesada was right when he said that we, the readers cannot expect the comic characters to grow along with us, and maybe thats whats bothering me most. Cause right now, i would love to see Peter married to MJ with a child, but thats probably because i'm 21, and i've been reading spidey since i was 7. I dunno, i hope i can adjust to this much lighter tone, cause i really love spider-man, I just believe that they can make it just a little more mature and edgy, because let's admit it, thats what sells in today's industry. Marvel's best current books are all the same way ( Daredevil, Captain America, IronMan, Ironfist etc.). Heck, even Ultimate Spider-man is pretty adult.

 

[ragingdemon155]

The scary thing is, I think you guys are right. I think i am slowly outgrowing spider-man and that scares me. Spidey has always been my favorite comic book character, but nowadays I find that my favorite is Daredevil, because he's mostly a darker, edgier version of spider-man. I guess as you grow and mature you tend to become more interested in more mature material. Like it or not, i guess Quesada was right when he said that we, the readers cannot expect the comic characters to grow along with us, and maybe thats whats bothering me most. Cause right now, i would love to see Peter married to MJ with a child, but thats probably because i'm 21, and i've been reading spidey since i was 7. I dunno, i hope i can adjust to this much lighter tone, cause i really love spider-man, I just believe that they can make it just a little more mature and edgy, because let's admit it, thats what sells in today's industry. Marvel's best current books are all the same way ( Daredevil, Captain America, IronMan, Ironfist etc.). Heck, even Ultimate Spider-man is pretty adult.

I can relate in some sense to what your saying. I dropped ASM recently cause I didn't like Marvel's whole stance on "Peter needs to remain young". It's just weird to me. Peter was always written as the type that wanted to settle down and so on. Why write a character a certain way if that's not how you want him?

Whatever, I don't like the tone at all and it doesn't feel like Spider-man. Maybe I'll go back and collect ASM done the road through TPB, but for now, it's a bit depressing knowing I no longer collect my favorite character.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, that is one of the things i am not liking either.....it is like they regressed Pete AND put him in this tight box. He has no where to go now and can no longer progress in any way because he needs to be a swingin single 70's Pete. They throw in the villian of the month, dialogue of the month, web shooter problems of the month..and there is their story. (oh, and they announce new creative teams for upcoming, that will also excite many fans.)

 

[OctoHaz]

Amazing Spider-Girl feels more to me like a classic Spidey comic than anything else out there. And I love Ultimate Spider-Man, truly.

Still not thrilled with Amazing Spider-Man since the One More Day thing. Keeping an eyeball on it, because it's Spider-Man and the Spideyverse is my favorite section of the MU, but it continues to irk me and not convince me to spend my money on it. :/

 

[MattXG]

Ultimate Spider-Man is WAY better than 616 Spider-Man.

In fact, Ultimate is more 616 thant the 616 right now. t:

 

[shinlyle]

Ultimate Spider-Man is WAY better than 616 Spider-Man.

In fact, Ultimate is more 616 thant the 616 right now. t:

There was a time when I'd attack you and tell you how wrong you are...but you're right, now.

Amazing Spider-Girl is still tops, to me, though! Honestly, it's sad to me that so many people on these boards will echo how great a book like Spider-Girl is, but it sells less than any other Spider-book.

 

[MattXG]

For all those that voted for ASM...

Would you rather Bendis make Peter a clone, then go back on it, then give him a baby, then go back on it and murder the baby, then bring Norman Osborn back from the dead, then make him have sex with Gwen and have super-aging Goblin babies, then make Peter a spider-god, then murder Peter and bring him back to life via birth in a coccoon, then have him fall in love with Iron Man, then reveal his identity to the world, then make a deal with the devil and then bring Harry back to life?

t:

 

[Themanofbat]

For all those that voted for ASM...

Would you rather Bendis make Peter a clone, then go back on it, then give him a baby, then go back on it and murder the baby, then bring Norman Osborn back from the dead, then make him have sex with Gwen and have super-aging Goblin babies, then make Peter a spider-god, then murder Peter and bring him back to life via birth in a coccoon, then have him fall in love with Iron Man, then reveal his identity to the world, then make a deal with the devil and then bring Harry back to life?
t:

Read the question... all that stuff was PRE-OMD... the question relates to POST-OMD, so you're pathetic little attempt to be funny really needs some work.

Might I suggest a few comedy classes?

 

[MattXG]

Read the question... all that stuff was PRE-OMD... the question relates to POST-OMD, so you're pathetic little attempt to be funny really needs some work.

Might I suggest a few comedy classes?

I didn't write it. That's why its in quotations.

Btw

It ties in to Post-OMD at the end.

Might I suggest a few reading comprehension classes?

 

[Themanofbat]

I didn't write it. That's why its in quotations.

Btw

It ties in to Post-OMD at the end.

Might I suggest a few reading comprehension classes?

Hahahahaha... so all the crap that you "quoted" has one line at the end where Spidey makes a deal with the devil and brings Harry back to life (sounds a LOT like what I read in OMD) which obviously happed PRE-BND... and since it's PRE-BND; it's NOT Post-OMD... which is what this thread's question was all about.

You should take those reading comprehension classes along with the how to be funny ones...

 

[J. J. Jameson]

The scary thing is, I think you guys are right. I think i am slowly outgrowing spider-man and that scares me. Spidey has always been my favorite comic book character, but nowadays I find that my favorite is Daredevil, because he's mostly a darker, edgier version of spider-man. I guess as you grow and mature you tend to become more interested in more mature material. Like it or not, i guess Quesada was right when he said that we, the readers cannot expect the comic characters to grow along with us, and maybe thats whats bothering me most. Cause right now, i would love to see Peter married to MJ with a child, but thats probably because i'm 21, and i've been reading spidey since i was 7. I dunno, i hope i can adjust to this much lighter tone, cause i really love spider-man, I just believe that they can make it just a little more mature and edgy, because let's admit it, thats what sells in today's industry. Marvel's best current books are all the same way ( Daredevil, Captain America, IronMan, Ironfist etc.). Heck, even Ultimate Spider-man is pretty adult.

No way, man. The real Spider-Man character is something that no one "grows out" of. You got guys like my friend Doc on the boards here (he goes by Joker now) who are science teachers for goodness sake and he still loves Spidey...classic and more modern stuff.

As I Spidey fan, I can go to Lee/Ditko stuff, read it, and enjoy it even if the dialogue is out of date because that's what makes it classic...because it's that time in history when that was just how comics were made and what the style was. It's like reading Shakespeare...no one talks the way they do in Julius Caesar, but darned if it isn't a heck of a story.

Like I've said before, yes, Peter/Spider-Man shouldn't be as dark a character as DD (who is one of my favorites, too), but he shouldn't be flowers and sunshine either. This is a man who is haunted by the death of two very important people in his life, and that's gotta show. It makes his fights personal, not external. Every hit, every fight...it carries a balance of power and responsibility. One of the things that I've always loved about Pete is that if he would ever really step back and look at everything that's happened in his life, he would go stark raving mad, and he knows it. He's always on the edge of that...and his humor during the fights keeps is what keeps him from just completely freaking out. It's such a beautiful dynamic.

 

[Venom 1988]

To be honest, I jumped on the USM bandwagon back when it first started in 2000 and loved it. To be me it was a cool ongoing Elseworlds/What If book. After the Hobgoblin arc, I dropped it cuz I felt it didnt have the same steam like the first 6 arcs had.

Loved JMS run up until Sins Past which then I dropped. I was hoping I would like BND, but the upcoming Symbiotes arc in USM in grabbing my attention. I may start buying USM again.

 

[kguillou]

You know, thinking back, and this is just my opinion, i think the Spidey comics have been at their best when they've shown the dark side to Peter Parker. I think Spidey's darkest stories are his best. Kraven's last hunt for example, very dark story and yet a classic at the same time. I dunno about the people on this board, but i was a personal fan of the dark "I am the Spider" phase that Peter was going through during the early 90's. I thought the inner conflict between Peter Parker and Spider-man was beautiful, and it showed what happened when peter embraces his "spider" side.
Even recently during the Back in Black arc, say what you will about that arc but you havta admit, that arc once again showed that Peter Parker/ Spider-man is NOT to be f***ed with. Without breaking a sweat, Peter nearly killed one of his oldest and deadliest foes, and yet it was only a taste of what would happen if Peter truly cut loose. Anyway, my point is, its cool to have the happy-go-lucky jokester spider-man, that part of what makes him so great, but at the same time i feel like everything doesn't have to be so "G-Rated". I wanna see more inner conflict, more mature situations, and of course more bad-ass Spider-man like we saw in Back in Black.Thats just my opinion.

 

[Venom 1988]

I wanna see more inner conflict, more mature situations, and of course more bad-ass Spider-man like we saw in Back in Black.Thats just my opinion.

A new Marvel Knights series that would focus on those darker and mature elements would be great