Comics Spidey Comics Future ?

[Dangerous]

I don’t wish to clog this board w/ another thread related to the possible outcome of OMD, yet I can’t help worry what is going to happen regarding my Spidey reading habits- if the type of speculation as discussed on the Millar world boards comes to fruition. I have always collected ASM, well, since the early 90’s .. and it saddens me to think the status quo could become so repulsive that it forces me to abandon my favourite ever character in comics.

During The Other I stopped and instead just read the issues in store. After that, into the wannabe Molten Man arc I started buying again. It’s hard to just quit your main comic book featuring a character that you love (in a non gay way of course ).

If this massive all consuming ret con does happen- sending Spidey comics decades back to when Harry and Gwen are still alive,- I think it would maybe be a good idea if someone here created an avatar that basically states you had quit ASM due to the BS.

Then we could all adopt it. This way anytime someone from Marvel came to look at these boards (as I am sure they do and other Spidey forums),- they would see the volume of readers who had dropped the book. It could be like a faction of true believers who could be instantly recognized anywhere on the Hype, and by any visitors to the board. Just an idea. .

It’s all if, but it is becoming increasingly likely by the day. Just like The Other people are figuring it out. I think I’m going to go read one of mad goblin’s articles and remember the good old days.

 

[spider greg]

If this massive all consuming ret con does happen- sending Spidey 30 + years back in time to when Harry and Gwen are still alive.

I could be wrong, but I don't really see this happening, considering it would have to affect the rest of the Marvel Universe also.

 

[Norman Osborn]

I could be wrong, but I don't really see this happening, considering it would have to affect the rest of the Marvel Universe also.

I really don't know what to expect anymore.....maybe these "rumours" of Gwen and Harry are being pushed by Marvel so that when it doesn't happen, fans will be less perturbed by the marriage break-up?....(in theory)...oh well the marriage is gone but at least Gwen's still a corpse.....

...but as you said, much of what's being contemplated requires a major reboot of the entire universe....I can't see Marvel wanting to do that?.....we know nothing...we fear much..and rightfully so

 

[DACrowe]

No it just requires lazy writing that ignores the ramifcations outside of the ASM comics.

If and when MJ is gone and we're back to the '80s (Gwen/Harry back or not, and I bet the latter will return) I support creating the avy, as it would be the first one I ever used. And I'd leave it up for a long time.

 

[Spidergurl4302]

Well I'm not sure if we'll need them but just in case...

 

[Dangerous]

Well, if Harry returns then ASM is over as far as I am concerned.

Nice avy Spidergirl, but I reckon it should say- BITE IT JQ above the logo.

 

[Blader5489]

There's no time travel involved. The retcon sounds more like the marriage is being erased from people's memories (similar to how the Sentry was erased from the world's memory).

And truthfully, Brand New Day looks like the best Spidey arc in years. Fresh material with a great creative staff.

 

[Dangerous]

I don't care how good it looks- if they wipe the marriage from peoples minds then I'm quitting.

 

[Spidergurl4302]

Nice avy Spidergirl, but I reckon it should say- BITE IT JQ above the logo.

Thanks and I could squeeze the extra text above the 100x100 and the 75x75

 

[Blader5489]

I don't care how good it looks- if they wipe the marriage from peoples minds then I'm quitting.

Jesus, what is with you people. All you guys do is clamor for good Spidey issues. Brand New Day comes along, looking like one of the most promising Spider-Man arcs in years, but you can't enjoy it because Peter Parker isn't married?

You're an idiot.

 

[Dangerous]

Actually fool, you are the idiot.

How exactly does BND look like 'one of the most promising Spider-Man arcs in recent years'? Do you know any of the plot details? Do you have any idea of the content of the story beyond the solicitation synopsis? No- I didn't think so. What exactly is so promising about it dumbass?

All it amounts to is JQ putting hot creators on ASM in a bid to hold the readership after his latest abomination- OMD. If the marriage gets mind wiped out of existence in the most sorry excuse for a Spider-Man story I will have ever seen, then you can be sure I, and 99% of the rest of this board will not be pumped for the following story. Especially if Peter has all but swept it under the rug.

 

[XSpidercideX]

I'm gonna stick with Spidey and comics in general a little bit longer. If things get good I'll stay, if it gets stupid I'm out.

I only have a passing interest in the actual comic books now adays. It usually lasts for a couple of days after I get my books...then I forget about them for a month until its time to go to the shop again.

 

[Blader5489]

Actually fool, you are the idiot.

How can I be the idiot if you were the one wrong about OMD and you are the one who knows nothing about BND? I would think your lack of knowledge coupled with your fanboy fervor makes you the, well, idiot.

How exactly does BND look like 'one of the most promising Spider-Man arcs in recent years'? Do you know any of the plot details? Do you have any idea of the content of the story beyond the solicitation synopsis? No- I didn't think so. What exactly is so promising about it dumbass?

Dan Slott writing. Some crazy talented artists. No more burden of continuity (think of how Civil War, Back in Black, and One More Day all tie into each other).

BUT PETER AND MJ AREN'T MARRIED OH NOES!

Give me a ****ing break.

 

[Dangerous]

How can I be the idiot if you were the one wrong about OMD and you are the one who knows nothing about BND? I would think your lack of knowledge coupled with your fanboy fervor makes you the, well, idiot.

I'm not wrong about anything.

My first post in this thread muses over a possible outcome of OMD.
One part that seems certain is the marriage getting wiped in the lamest cheap shot of a ret con that ever existed. You are the idiot for claiming I am wrong about anything. Like I said, other than the solicitation blurbs you know nothing about BND's content.

Dan Slott writing. Some crazy talented artists.

As I previously noted- JQ puts some top tier creators on the book, so what?
This is being done to try and take the sting out of the big sh1t sandwich we are being forced to eat in the form of OMD.

No more burden of continuity

How is that a good thing?, you sound like a newb.

(think of how Civil War, Back in Black, and One More Day all tie into each other).

All those arcs suck.
I don’t give a sh1t how they fit together.

This whole run of lame arcs is just the set up to JQ’s contrived and pathetic agenda to erase the marriage. He can’t even do the legit thing if he has to end it,- and have PP and MJ separate. He has to have the whole relationship erased.
He is a hack.

BUT PETER AND MJ AREN'T MARRIED OH NOES!

Give me a ****ing break.

So you don like the marriage, or appreciate the ramifications of erasing it and thus rendering the last 20 years worth of comics worthless. Well good for you, but guess what?- No one here cares about your opinion.

 

[Gabbra49]

Im willing to give it a shot but im really on my last string here. Im biased because spiderman is my favorite character and i really want to like what next for spiderman. The long time fan in me is screaming that they are realling gonna screw this up.

 

[DACrowe]

Jesus, what is with you people. All you guys do is clamor for good Spidey issues. Brand New Day comes along, looking like one of the most promising Spider-Man arcs in years, but you can't enjoy it because Peter Parker isn't married?

You're an idiot.

WTF? mate. That was a bit freaking harsh. This just turned into a flame war. You're a proponent of Spidey 3, eh? Well how would you feel if the next movie the new director (presuming Raimi s gone) says "I didn't like SM3. In fact I don't like the whole trilogy. I find the Peter/MJ relationship...stifling, limits creativity" and because SM3 wasn't all it was cracked up to be he uses that as his excuse to use SM4 to erase the entire continuity of the first three movies. Peter doesn't remember proposing to MJ or being lovers, she doesn't remember he is Spidey (nor he that she found out) and Harry's back from the dead with the possibility of no recollection who Pete really is either. All so the love triangle can work and they make MJ a superhero on top of that to "spice it up."


I imagine you'd be pretty damn pissed about that.

Well as a fan of the comics, the character has been about growth (just as Parker grew in the movies with each film, only much moreso in the comics). He went from a 16-17 year old teen (depending whose writing) who is an introverted loser to a witty superhero that's a smartass, to an outgoing but still kind of socially oblivious college kid. He then became a struggling grad student, a drop out and finally a teacher. He grew up, and after running around town settled down with yes, MJ.

But that doesn't mean the story is over. There is more you can tell. But no...Marvel has spent 2/3 of the marriage *****ing or keeping them apart ("she's dead, no they're seperated...how do you feel about clones?"). When they left good writers to their devices (DeFalco, DeMatthis, Jenkins, etc.) it worked. Heck, even under JmS it worked.

Now we've been given a pile of **** for the last 4 years, and at least the last year of it was intentional so that we'd embrace Joey Q's BS theory that Spidey is better single. So he's getting a mindewipe so we can get the same BS stories we had 20 years ago and MJ is turned into a Black Cat knock-off so Peter is "hipper" again, but in permanent stagnation like Superman or the Simpsons...except we don't only read it for the jokes.

So there it is. But to soften a blow that Q knows will piss fans off, he's throwing in some new writers and artists who do good work. It's still shyte. Mark Millar and MicNervin (hwo you're wetting yourself over) are both very talented and Civil War still was crap, especially in the Spidey-department.

It is all shock value and publicity stunts so you wag your tail at the new solicitation promises (3X OMG OMG! CAN IT GET ANY BETTER?! I THINK NOT! AMAZING!!!) with no promises of story other than they will be shallow and have no depth but be mini-events every month x3.

But because of the names you're supposed to accept it, even though Joey Q intentionally spoon fed you **** for the last year so this would look like a good deal. In reality he stripped the character of his maturity, his depth, his personality (as this is not the peter Parker Stan Lee created in Civil War, BIB and especially OMD) and what makes him work to trade him in for a Charile Brown/Peter Pan characterization that loses any depth and is a shadow of its former self with the suspense "will he get together with MJ" or BC, Gwen or whoever else ridiculous because you already know the answer...No. It ages the character.

It's crap. And sometimes you just need to put the animal out of his misery. Just because it has a new cast (Slott) doesn't mean it is going to walk again. Sorry Marvel screwed the pooch on this one.



With that said how would y'all feel about an Amazing classic wording with a "no smoking" or Ghostbuster circle with a line through it avy? I think it'd be more creative.

 

[spider greg]

How can I be the idiot if you were the one wrong about OMD and you are the one who knows nothing about BND? I would think your lack of knowledge coupled with your fanboy fervor makes you the, well, idiot.



Dan Slott writing. Some crazy talented artists. No more burden of continuity (think of how Civil War, Back in Black, and One More Day all tie into each other).

BUT PETER AND MJ AREN'T MARRIED OH NOES!

Give me a ****ing break.

Alright guys, let's cool it down, no name calling.

 

[Dangerous]

With that said how would y'all feel about an Amazing classic wording with a "no smoking" or Ghostbuster circle with a line through it avy? I think it'd be more creative.

Sounds cool, but I have seen a couple of posters w/ the QUIT avatar already.

 

[Venom 1988]

Well I'm not sure if we'll need them but just in case...

Saving this for later

 

[Blader5489]

I'm not wrong about anything.

Look at your first post in this thread. You explicitly say that the retcon is going to "send Spidey comics back to when Gwen and Harry were alive." You were wrong. Deal with it.

As I previously noted- JQ puts some top tier creators on the book, so what?

Good writers = good writing = good story? But hey, that's just me.

This is being done to try and take the sting out of the big sh1t sandwich we are being forced to eat in the form of OMD.

Actually, it's more JMS is leaving and needs a replacement.

How is that a good thing?, you sound like a newb.

There is a thread on this very board where people complain about the lack of self-contained issues. OMD looks to clean up a lot of the congestion that's been plaguing Spider-Man books since Civil War.

So you don like the marriage, or appreciate the ramifications of erasing it and thus rendering the last 20 years worth of comics worthless.

I never said I disliked the marriage, I'm actually pretty indifferent to it. It has never added much to the story, but it has detracted from it either. Either way, I fail to see how erasing the marriage would render the last 20 years worthless.

Well good for you, but guess what?- No one here cares about your opinion.

Seriously, how old are you?

 

[Blader5489]

how would you feel if the next movie the new director (presuming Raimi s gone) says "I didn't like SM3. In fact I don't like the whole trilogy. I find the Peter/MJ relationship...stifling, limits creativity" and because SM3 wasn't all it was cracked up to be he uses that as his excuse to use SM4 to erase the entire continuity of the first three movies. Peter doesn't remember proposing to MJ or being lovers, she doesn't remember he is Spidey (nor he that she found out) and Harry's back from the dead with the possibility of no recollection who Pete really is either. All so the love triangle can work and they make MJ a superhero on top of that to "spice it up."

Sounds like more of a complete reboot (a la Batman Begins) then what OMD is doing.

Well as a fan of the comics, the character has been about growth (just as Parker grew in the movies with each film, only much moreso in the comics). He went from a 16-17 year old teen (depending whose writing) who is an introverted loser to a witty superhero that's a smartass, to an outgoing but still kind of socially oblivious college kid. He then became a struggling grad student, a drop out and finally a teacher. He grew up, and after running around town settled down with yes, MJ.

All of which sounds nice, but is pushed to the background more than anything else. Since you brought it up, I'll use Raimi's films as a comparison. Raimi has said he prefers Peter Parker to Spider-Man, and it shows: Peter's life and his relationship with MJ are central to the movies. Oppositely, the comics are all about throwing Spider-Man (not Peter) into new conflicts and stories. In the comics, Peter's life and his relationships are all consequences of whatever Spider-Man does. They're secondary.

Which is why, to me, getting rid of the marriage is not that big a deal - it's integral to Peter's character, but that's always secondary to what Spider-Man is doing. What is a big deal to me is that OMD is a giant waste of time. Spending three months to get rid of something so trivial with the king of plot devices is just stupid.

But because of the names you're supposed to accept it, even though Joey Q intentionally spoon fed you **** for the last year so this would look like a good deal.

I'm not "forced" to accept anything. But after two years of stories that have been doing virtually nowhere with plot points that are more shock value than anything, I'm ready for a change in the writing department. And given how awesome Avengers: The Initiative has been, I think I'm justified in anticipating Slott's take on Spider-Man.

 

[Dangerous]

Look at your first post in this thread. You explicitly say that the retcon is going to "send Spidey comics back to when Gwen and Harry were alive." You were wrong. Deal with it.

Oh Boy, have I got one here.
Go back and re-read my first post.

See 3rd paragraph- It EXPLICITLY states ‘IF this massive all consuming ret con does happen- sending Spidey comics decades back to when Harry and Gwen are still alive…’

I rest my case.
YOU ARE WRONG.
DEAL W/ IT.

Good writers = good writing = good story? But hey, that's just me.

The book may be getting great creators, but the point I was making is that for most fans- massive changes to the status quo such as erasing the marriage or sending PP back to his youth, or resurrecting dead characters- any one of these potential scenarios is deeply unappealing. Not only that but it would be a great disrespect to most of the current readership who support the marriage.

Actually, it's more JMS is leaving and needs a replacement.

Yes, and they could stick anyone one the book, but they have selected all fan favs to try and take sting out of what is about to happen.

There is a thread on this very board where people complain about the lack of self-contained issues. OMD looks to clean up a lot of the congestion that's been plaguing Spider-Man books since Civil War.

You simply don’t get it do you…. Sheesh,

Yes everyone would like to see more self contained issues, but that has noting to w/ the status quo or how continuity is adhered to. This ‘congestion’ you speak of has all been methodically planned out years in advance by JQ so that he can, in his mind, justify the pathetic cop out of erasing the marriage.

I never said I disliked the marriage, I'm actually pretty indifferent to it. It has never added much to the story, but it has detracted from it either. Either way, I fail to see how erasing the marriage would render the last 20 years worthless.

Because if the marriage never happened, or PP and MJ forget it, then it will effectively render a huge portion of the event’s of Spidey comics from the last 20 years worthless.

 

[DACrowe]

All of which sounds nice, but is pushed to the background more than anything else. Since you brought it up, I'll use Raimi's films as a comparison. Raimi has said he prefers Peter Parker to Spider-Man, and it shows: Peter's life and his relationship with MJ are central to the movies. Oppositely, the comics are all about throwing Spider-Man (not Peter) into new conflicts and stories. In the comics, Peter's life and his relationships are all consequences of whatever Spider-Man does. They're secondary.

Which is why, to me, getting rid of the marriage is not that big a deal - it's integral to Peter's character, but that's always secondary to what Spider-Man is doing. What is a big deal to me is that OMD is a giant waste of time. Spending three months to get rid of something so trivial with the king of plot devices is just stupid.



I'm not "forced" to accept anything. But after two years of stories that have been doing virtually nowhere with plot points that are more shock value than anything, I'm ready for a change in the writing department. And given how awesome Avengers: The Initiative has been, I think I'm justified in anticipating Slott's take on Spider-Man.

You really don't get it, do you?

YOU REALLY don't get the character?

The comics are more action driven given the medium, yes. But why Spidey has always stood out is that Stan preferred spending time on Peter Parker than Spidey. The villains are great as he has arguably the best rogue gallery in comics (Batman fans will have a bone to pick with that staement).

But it is the Peter Parker who went from high school through college, who went from single loser, to a man ****e (sorry he kinda' was in the mid '80s ) to a married man who was comfortable in life. The next step is just telling the marriage aspect of his life. Possibly children.

But Marvel has refused to do that.

The character has never been simply putting his alter ego in the background like say Superman or Batman. His supporting cast his intergal to the character. And his progression is what made him stand out.

The movies got this. Sure they made mJ some MJ/Gwen hybrid and cut Gwen, BC, Flash, Liz, Shashan and so forth out. But the idea was the same. The thing that makes Spider-Man a great character besides being the first superhero that is just a smartass and not an authority figure is his struggles through life as the everyman into adulthood. And by ASM #200 he did grow up and the stories evolved with that.

MJ has become intergal to his character. It is why she is so important in the Sam Raimi movies. The MJ in the comics is just a much better character. Her relationship with Peter has become a defining aspect of the books. And to not only remove it but say the last 20 years are inconsequential

is a RAPING of the character that Stan created. Spidey has always been changing. He got new jobs, better jobs, lost them, new friends, lost friends. But he moved forward. So did his supporting cast and some of them reached climactic and beautiful conclusions like Harry Osborn which was played on heavily to the "boring secondary stuff" of Peter Parker, Gwen Stacy AND MARY JANE WATSON and the sins of their youth coming back to haunt them. It was interesting enough that it played out (in inferior storytelling) in SM3.

Kraven's Last Hunt is brilliant because of how it affected the newlyweds and strained the marriage so much, with MJ still unpacking when Peter goes missing for weeks and Kraven goes around as a killer Spidey in the media.

And now these stories NEVER HAPPENED. That is what Marvel is doing.

It is insulting. Peter in stagnation is boring, they tried it in the reboot when they "killed MJ" and it sucked and everyone KNOWS that it sucked.

What you have here is not erasing a minor plot point of the character, but a defining aspect. And it has been planned since before Civil War.

You know all the **** you hate? Spidey illogically unmasking himself? Aunt May in the hospital bed? Peter randomly wearing a black suit to try and kill someone? Peter choosing a lady who lived a full life who he has accepted as dead 3 times now (before ASM #200, the classic ASM #400 and the Mark Millar run on Marve Knights) over his wife?

Why do these suck so much??? So that when the **** storm ends, Joey Q has successfully done what he has wanted to do the last decade...end the Spider-Marriage. But he made the year leading up it to it so ****ty and poorly written that when he hires some good writers and artists to write a few fluff pieces for hte next year or two, you'll think you're stock is going up in the world.

It's not. It's a marketing scam no different than getting people to buy Civil War by having Spidey unmask himself. It is a publicity stunt with no merit and you are wlaking into it with blinders on. "Ooooh pretty art and new packaging, a new writer. Me likey," when it is the threshold of crappy storylines. You just won't realize it until you get bored with them. Which honestly shouldn't take too long....

 

[Spider-Jay]

YOU REALLY don't get the character?

You can't really say he doesn't get it. Different readers will always view Spider-Man in different ways.

E.g. as for myself, I always read the comics to learn more about Peter more than Spider-Man (kinda like Raimi).

I've always been more intrigued in the fact that Peter was an ordinary kid whom fate chose to thrust greatness upon. That's just me though.

However, I too am beginning to grow weary of JQ's shenanigans. Sure, it was good back in BIB, but now its dragging on far too long.

I want to see Spidey back in action putting the beatdown on various villains, something we haven't seen in a while.

As for me continuing with ASM, I will be renewing my subscription shortly. The comics have always been through ups and downs before and I feel that eventually things will get back on track. Hopefully sooner than later.

 

[DACrowe]

^ I'd agree.

I mean yeah people when they're kids start reading Spidey for the action. Same with newcomers to the cartoons ('90s anyway) or movie. But usually they like Peter Parker a lot more than they think. His journey is the one that keeps it fresh and interesting, the action is just what keeps it in the medium and arguably cool (though many like Miller would argue superheroes ain't cool).

I like what Romita Sr. said, "Spider-Man is a soap opera where a fight breaks out every now and then."

By reducing the character to a simple basic DC type character removes that aspect and what makes Spidey so unique in comics. He is popular because of this, just not because of his rogue gallery, really.