Spoilers - Alternate Mind Wipe Scene

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Why in God's name did they change this? That is absolutely how the mind erase procedure should have went. It was perfect!

The manipulation of Stryker, capitalizing on Logan's emotions, as he learns the "truth" of Kayla's "betrayal", Logan volunteers to have his mind wiped, to start clean.

But before it is complete, Creed attacks Kayla, the movie continues as normal, Logan and Creed duke it out. Because the mind wipe was incomplete, Logan still has his memory, but it begins to fade. Even if they kept the adamantium bullet, at least it would not have better explanation, as Logan's mind was already fragile, and the adamantium bullet just finished the job.

I just got done watching the deleted scenes, and between Storm's cameo, and Logan's mind wipe, I don't know how in the hell they decided to go the route that they did.

This is the Rogue cure ending all over again. They actually did it RIGHT, but made the wrong choice. *sigh*

 

[Legion]

these aren't put back into the movie right?

 

[The Chris]

It's a shame this was changed, because not only was the idea of the mindwipe better than what they used, but the actual execution and pacing of the same came out better. The scene went like 6 minutes and had some breath and a little more dramatic muscle to it, simply because it was cut better. Like you said Nell, they did it again.

 

[danoyse]

It didn't replace the bullet scene. That still happens because Logan breaks out before the procedure is finished and hears Victor hurting Kayla. He shouts "Victor!!" when he comes back in the room, and that fight starts up the same way it in the finished film, so he still remembers who Victor is and knows to save Kayla.

The best part of that whole scene was Victor's reaction. That was bloody brilliant. For that alone, I would have kept that in the film.

My only gripe with it was still why on earth Logan would volunteer for anything like that again. Like Gavin Hood's commentary said, he just doesn't give a damn anymore...but it still doesn't look quite right.

It's a decent scene, though. I would have been OK with that being left in the film, as well as the other two deleted scenes.

 

[The Chris]

Oh okay. Would have made the bullet thing better because then it would have been the final nail instead of the whole reason for amnesia.

"Will he remember me?" Good stuff.

 

[danoyse]

Oh olay. Would have made the bullet thing better because then it would have been the final nail instead of the whole reason for amnesia.

"Will he remember me?" Good stuff.

That's the best part. Gavin Hood said on the commentary that was the part of that scene he hated cutting most. I wonder if they could have arranged it so Victor knew Stryker's plan was to erase his memory and they could have left that bit of dialogue in anyway?

Leaving it in would have also worked because you could see how desperate Stryker still was to have him under his control. The bullets would have been after he'd tried everything else.

Again, I loved Hood's commentary on that scene. It reminded me of the deleted dialogue from the train scene in X1 when Logan is explaining to Rogue how often he's tried to kill himself but his healing factor won't let him die (another scene I wish they'd kept in).

Cannot wait to watch the movie again with the commentary track. I was going to wait until the weekend but I think I may just watch it tomorrow night.

 

[topdog1]

I'm in the camp that thinks it was a good cut. The cut scene was poorly pieced together with poor motivation on every characters part. It seems piecemeal and silly to me. The theatrical release version is WAY better. Logan walking away in disgust works so much better than Logan sitting alone in a chair with a few wire hangers wrapped around his head. Despite his suicidal despair, there's no way Logan keeps playing the game and listens to anything Stryker offers. Plus, why would Victor wait so long to do anything? He heard the whole conversation but stays in the background until Logan is strapped in to the chair? The only part I liked was the fact that Kayla's powers work on Victor.

 

[brian]

i didnt know that there was an alternate mind wipe scene, although i saw it in theaters and thought that that was kinna lame to have him lose his memory as a result of a bullet. normally that would kill him right, so how does shooting someone who's skeleton is ALREADY made of adamantium not kill him. wouldn't it have the opposite effect. i like the idea of him losing his memory from the procedure itself.

 

[Mystic]

To be honest, I can't see Logan voluntarily letting Stryker remove all his memories. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing Logan would do! I thought the bullet scene was good. And since Stryker had been talking about "adamantium bullets" before, it seemed like the obvious thing to do.

 

[bullets]

I thought about picking up the two disc so I could see the deleted scenes. They should have a feature that allows you to edit the movie , lol.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So I did the marathon on Tuesday night when the DVD came out. I started with X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and went through the entire series from there.

From watching it in the story's chronological order, and thinking about it even more since then (and re-watching the alternate mind wipe scene a few times since), I am even more convinced that the scene should have been kept. Listening to the commentaries, it's also obvious that Hood wanted to keep the scene, and someone else forced his hand (Fox?) Lemme break down why (wall of text ahead, proceed with caution):

-It's more comic accurate Logan lost his memory via experimentation, not via an adamantium bullet.

-It's more tragic I absolutely agree with Gavin Hood on this, that it just showcases a man who has hit rock bottom, and has nothing left to live for. Watching the alternate version of the scene, I feel -SO- much more emotion when Logan is giving his "I'm just the fool who got played" speech, knowing that he is essentially going to kill himself. It is a very powerful moment. Kayla's reaction is also very powerful. Let me explain:

I'm of a slightly different mindset in my theory to Kayla's involvement in everything. Perhaps I am looking -TOO- deeply at things, but when I look at all the details of that scene, I come to a certain conclusion. The relationship between Kayla and Logan was completely legit. They met on natural terms, fell in love, and lived happily together. But obviously, as Stryker said, "You'd think we'd just let you walk away?" That life was monitored. When Stryker began putting his plots in motion, he needed to finally act on his monitoring of Logan's life. He kidnaps Kayla's sister as collateral, confronts Logan, and when Logan rejects him, takes measures to blackmail Kayla into doing what she ends up doing.

The reasons I think this? Watch the scene where Kayla is explaining her "betrayal" to Logan. Stryker tells him "It was never real". Kayla reacts, wanting to object to that statement, and Stryker responds by threatening to kill her (look at how he showcases his gun to her.) That tells me that there was more to all of this, that the relationship was truly real with the way that she tried to defend against such allegations.

That makes the alternate mind wipe scene even more tragic, because her actions have essentially killed the man that she loved, and there is nothing that she can do about it.

-It makes more sense than Logan just walking away Logan doesn't actually return until Creed attacks Kayla. No action was being taken to stop Logan. Stryker was obviously going to just let Logan walk away from all of it. Why? This reasoning makes a lot more sense to get Logan out of the picture for Creed to attack Kayla.

-Better reason for Creed to help out Logan against Deadpool Victor obviously needs Logan to remember him. When Stryker wipes Logan's memory, Victor now feels a sense of betrayal. He doesn't get the adamantium, and he won't be remembered by even his own brother. It makes more sense now that Creed may have more motive to help Logan against Stryker's plots.

-Better explains Sabretooth / Wolverine in X-Men It's been asked why Sabretooth wouldn't recognize Wolverine in X-Men. Well, here is why. It's not so much that he doesn't recognize him (the taking of the dog tags is symbolic of their history), but he knows that Wolverine won't recognize him. It much better explains those actions.

-The adamantium bullet now makes more sense Through watching the scene, you will see that the mind wiping isn't completed. But having begun, it'd make sense that Logan's mind would now be fragile. 2 adamantium bullets piercing his skull would now make a lot more sense to finishing the job than they do now, where it feels very forced, random, and tacky.

-It fits better with Stryker's claims in X2 When Stryker says "As I recall, it was you who volunteered for the procedure", it is in response to Wolverine saying "You took my life!!!" - implying the memory loss. This would have been that "volunteering" Stryker mentioned. Obviously, Logan has already volunteered for Weapon X, but this only expands on the idea that Logan "volunteered".

-Logan feeling like a man with no other options isn't a bad reason Again, I agree with Hood here. I truly can accept the fact that Logan's mindset is "Do with me as you will, I don't care anymore." Logan already did it once, and while he obviously knows how manipulative Stryker is, I think it makes it even more powerful for Stryker to continue the manipulation of Logan. At that point in time, it is very feasible that Logan just truly does not want to remember any of this anymore, and wants a clean start. While he may be getting it through questionable means, it's a "drastic means require drastic measures" type of deal. I am truly okay with this reasoning, and given the events of the film, I believe it is much more powerful and dramatic than simply being shot in the head with a magic bullet.

I really wish this was the official ending of the movie. I really do feel that it makes the movie 1000 times better than it is now. It gives the movie that dark feeling that it was lacking. I know that sounds extreme, but my biggest gripe with the movie always was the adamantium bullet and Logan not losing his memory via the experimentation. With this scene, the movie becomes more of what I was expecting / hoping for knowing that they were making a movie based on Weapon X, and less of the joke that it has become amongst the fanboys.

I feel that it is a shame that TWICE now the X-Men movies have suffered from bad plot points, only to find via special features / deleted scenes that the correct handling of the scene was actually filmed, but they just made a creative choice against it. It is very frustrating.

It is one thing when you delete Storm's tidal wave from X-Men: The Last Stand, Xavier's "escape" in X2, or Rogue asking for a cure in X-Men, but when the actual movie gets something wrong and there is a scene featured on the DVD of them doing it right, it's very frustrating.

And in my mind, both the alternate Rogue ending in X-Men: The Last Stand, and the alternate mind wipe in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, not just doing it right, but doing it absolutely perfectly.

The closest we can ever get to these being done right is to get director's cuts that cut these movies with the proper versions of these scenes, but even then I doubt that makes those events official cannon.

 

[Red Mask]

I agree with Gavin's comments. But I think that alternate scene was better in some ways.

 

[BooksCatsEtc]

The only part I liked was the fact that Kayla's powers work on Victor.

I liked that as well -- it was much better than having Victor be impervious to her power. I loved the way LS played it , the sheer frustration that something so delicate as a touch and a whispered request could overwhelm his brute force.

But other than agreeing with that, I too wish the alternate scene had been used. It had a few points that didn't make sense to me, but what it added to the Logan/Creed relationship was worth it.

I got the feeling, watching this movie, that Creed did not hate his brother, he just wanted him back but being as emotionally damaged and stunted as Creed is, he had no idea how to go about it nor could he understand that they'd changed so radically that they really didn't belong together anymore. Since the alternate scene bolstered that for me (at least in my own mind), I liked it.