Stallone blames Batman for the decline of 80s action heroes

[The Executioner]

You both are right.

I believe it was Die Hard, Aliens, Lethal Weapon.

Die Hard - You had a normal everyday-looking cop who looked somewhat out of shape. But Bruce Willis played the role so perfectly with that perfect combination of wit and more importantly fear. When I watch Stallone's or Arnold's action films, I rarely get the sense that they were ever in the state of panic or fear.

Aliens - Weaver was petite, but she made up for it in heart and brains. She outwitted Aliens and paved the way for other strong female action characters. She was like the female Stallone.

Lethal Weapon - Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 are my most favorite actions films, so I could talk about it all day, but I'll try to keep it short. You get a great glimpse into these character lives. I watched both of them back to back a few nights ago, and I love how much exposition was in these films that actually gave you space to breathe.
Anyway, about the characters. Glover is 50 year old (52 in LW2) male shows his age, yet still has moments of awesome even though Riggs does more of the heavy lifting. Riggs was a straight up badass, though smaller than other action star characters. He also was a nutcase and a cop on the edge in LW1. If I didn't know of the sequels I would've though he would've off'd himself or got killed by the end of the film.

After this era of actions films, people were looking to the "regular" guy to be a hero. They wanted flawed, more realistic character. Remember that this era did coincide with the Watchmen graphic novel. There was a need for more down to earth, uninvicible characters.

People want to say Stallone was kidding, but I truly believe there were words of bitterness because he did decline during the 90s and wasn't as big the box office draw as he used to be.

Yeah John McClain had that Spiderman wit and fear in the Die Hard movie. He was scared as **** he was gonna die yet he outsmarted terrorists and he did it with an average body and brains.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

This ignores that action movies were still popular into the mid-90s. What really killed them was the disaster craze in the mid to late 90s (Independence Day, Twister, Armaggeddon, etc.) and the development of CGI. Then that was replaced with the superhero era that we are in now, which will be replaced by something else. People moved on to something else. I wouldn't be surprised if the old action movie makes a comeback at some point in the next decade though.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Then Michael Keaton and Tobey Maguire weren't the nig action stars the studio was looking for. I seem to remember Sony wanting a buff dude to play Peter. Luckily Raimi and Maguire managed to convince them.

 

[zeptron]

This from the same guy who would later play Judge Dredd(I AM THE LAW!)

 

[DarkKnight88]

It's funny because Stallone's most acclaimed (was even nominated for Best Actor in 1976) and most true character was Rocky, a "sensitive" and "talkative" character.

His physique was normal in the Brando mold in the first two films...

..then it would become superhuman in the later sequels

 

[xwolverine2]

Burton started special effexts? LOLwut?

movie magic

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It's funny because Stallone's most acclaimed (was even nominated for Best Actor in 1976) and most true character was Rocky, a "sensitive" and "talkative" character.

His physique was normal in the Brando mold in the first two films...

..then it would become superhuman in the later sequels

As much as he loved the Rocky films, I kinda hate where Stallone's career ended up. Some people don't even watch Rocky and its viewed less favorably by people because of how Stallone's career went or people who haven't seen it ignorantly think its another action film.

 

[topdog1]

You both are right.

I believe it was Die Hard, Aliens, Lethal Weapon.

Die Hard - You had a normal everyday-looking cop who looked somewhat out of shape. But Bruce Willis played the role so perfectly with that perfect combination of wit and more importantly fear. When I watch Stallone's or Arnold's action films, I rarely get the sense that they were ever in the state of panic or fear.

Aliens - Weaver was petite, but she made up for it in heart and brains. She outwitted Aliens and paved the way for other strong female action characters. She was like the female Stallone.

Lethal Weapon - Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 are my most favorite actions films, so I could talk about it all day, but I'll try to keep it short. You get a great glimpse into these character lives. I watched both of them back to back a few nights ago, and I love how much exposition was in these films that actually gave you space to breathe.
Anyway, about the characters. Glover is 50 year old (52 in LW2) male shows his age, yet still has moments of awesome even though Riggs does more of the heavy lifting. Riggs was a straight up badass, though smaller than other action star characters. He also was a nutcase and a cop on the edge in LW1. If I didn't know of the sequels I would've though he would've off'd himself or got killed by the end of the film.

After this era of actions films, people were looking to the "regular" guy to be a hero. They wanted flawed, more realistic character. Remember that this era did coincide with the Watchmen graphic novel. There was a need for more down to earth, uninvicible characters.

People want to say Stallone was kidding, but I truly believe there were words of bitterness because he did decline during the 90s and wasn't as big the box office draw as he used to be.

YES! The Lethal Weapon series certainly needs to mentioned as much as Die Hard. Great films, period. Both franchises lost their way when they flushed the everyman factor away by trying to make the action way over-the-top. All they did was cross the believability line and all that resulted was eye rolling at the stupidity of the action.


BTW- "I didn't have to go to the gym for all those years." More like didn't have to abuse those human growth hormones and steroids.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 kick so much damn ass till next month. The third? Eh. I can live with it, it could do better. The fourth? I pretend it doesn't exist. Die hard has had a pretty consistant streak of solid films. The second is the most flawed, but it's better than the fourth Lethal Weapon.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 kick so much damn ass till next month. The third? Eh. I can live with it, it could do better. The fourth? I pretend it doesn't exist. Die hard has had a pretty consistant streak of solid films. The second is the most flawed, but it's better than the fourth Lethal Weapon.

I always felt both Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 was up there with Die Hard. Martin Riggs now feels like a fun combination of McClaine and the usual 80s action hero. He was a down-to-earth character (on the edge) who looks like normal, but is capable of completely crazy badass moments like killing a bunch mercs raiding his beach house while avoiding a helicopter. Murtaugh like I said before was the normal 50 year old cop that that was very sharp with a gun, especially for his age.

I don't care how crazy Mel Gibson gets, I will still love Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 though I'm one of the people who love 2 more (I still think 1 was better though). I can tolerate 3 though the beginning with the building explosion and Murtaugh's scenes were the highlight the film.

As for LW4, I like to think of it as an extended (and crazy) reunion show. I'll watch it from time to time just for Chris Rock's freakout on Joe Pesci which was comedy gold. I also loved the first scene of LW4 when Riggs tricks Murtaugh into doing the chicken dance in his drawers.

The thing about Lethal Weapon 3 and 4, is that Shane Black, the screenwriter and creator of the Lethal Weapon series, left the series halfway through the production of LW2.

As for Die Hard. I loved Die Hard and I didn't 2 was that bad because of the twist when McClaine gets betrayed. And to be honest, the ending to Die Hard 2 was so much more badass. But its still not even close to DH1 becuase DH2 had so many plot holes but some of them were dismissable for dramatic effect.

YES! The Lethal Weapon series certainly needs to mentioned as much as Die Hard. Great films, period. Both franchises lost their way when they flushed the everyman factor away by trying to make the action way over-the-top. All they did was cross the believability line and all that resulted was eye rolling at the stupidity of the action.


BTW- "I didn't have to go to the gym for all those years." More like didn't have to abuse those human growth hormones and steroids.

I believe Michael Scott of The Office (of all people haha) said it best.

You know what, here's the thing about Die Hard 4. Die Hard one, the original, John McClane was just this normal guy. You know, he's just a normal New York City cop, who gets his feet cut, and gets beat up. But he's an everyday guy. In Die Hard 4, he is jumping a motorcycle into a helicopter. In air. You know? He's invincible. It just sort of lost what Die Hard was. It's not Terminator.

Bruce Willis became Stallone! Even if LW4 wasn't that good, it still felt like Lethal Weapon. Riggs still felt like Riggs and Murtaugh still felt like Murtaugh. McClaine became what the Die Hard series was successful at avoiding.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

The Lethal Wepaon films and Die Hard films are incredible. Simple as that, IMO.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I always felt both Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 was up there with Die Hard. Martin Riggs now feels like a fun combination of McClaine and the usual 80s action hero. He was a down-to-earth character (on the edge) who looks like normal, but is capable of completely crazy badass moments like killing a bunch mercs raiding his beach house while avoiding a helicopter. Murtaugh like I said before was the normal 50 year old cop that that was very sharp with a gun, especially for his age.

I don't care how crazy Mel Gibson gets, I will still love Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 though I'm one of the people who love 2 more (I still think 1 was better though). I can tolerate 3 though the beginning with the building explosion and Murtaugh's scenes were the highlight the film.

As for LW4, I like to think of it as an extended (and crazy) reunion show. I'll watch it from time to time just for Chris Rock's freakout on Joe Pesci which was comedy gold. I also loved the first scene of LW4 when Riggs tricks Murtaugh into doing the chicken dance in his drawers.

The thing about Lethal Weapon 3 and 4, is that Shane Black, the screenwriter and creator of the Lethal Weapon series, left the series halfway through the production of LW2.

As for Die Hard. I loved Die Hard and I didn't 2 was that bad because of the twist when McClaine gets betrayed. And to be honest, the ending to Die Hard 2 was so much more badass. But its still not even close to DH1 becuase DH2 had so many plot holes but some of them were dismissable for dramatic effect.



I believe Michael Scott of The Office (of all people haha) said it best.



Bruce Willis became Stallone! Even if LW4 wasn't that good, it still felt like Lethal Weapon. Riggs still felt like Riggs and Murtaugh still felt like Murtaugh. McClaine became what the Die Hard series was successful at avoiding.

Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 are awesome because it had that edge. Especially with Riggs. In LW4, the edge was gone. I preferred him seeing boozed out and contemplating suicide. Gibson was awesome. I didn't like seeing him happy and with a wife. LW3 should have been the end. Murtagh retires and Riggs gets a woman. We don't need to know what happens with that. The last traces of Riggs edge are found at the end of LW3. The beginning scene in LW3 was awesome. "Roger. Grab the cat!" It's is awesome in the beginning up until Rene Russo comes into it. She annoys the hell out of me. Not to mention she was cast in every single female lead in the 90's.

Plus, Riggs without a mullet. Does. Not. Work. Just him with the mullet gone makes him seem less crazy. That mullet was the ****.

LW4 just felt like a comedy act. Too many damn characters and too much comedy. Uneccessary. Jet Li sucked as the villain too. I mean LW3's villain wasn't boring enough.

I don't care what Gibson did in real life, I still love his movies and his characters. Although when he asks if he's crazy in LW1, a small voice will go, "Yes."

And I always wanted a Die Hard and Lethal Weapon crossover.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Definitely man

I love this scene: This is definitely one of the defining scenes of the Lethal Weapon series.

[YT]pswHKZib3Bc[/YT]

Btw, who else thinks that Stallone is bitter because of the failure of Judge Dredd?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Lethal Weapon 1 and 2 are awesome because it had that edge. Especially with Riggs. In LW4, the edge was gone. I preferred him seeing boozed out and contemplating suicide. Gibson was awesome. I didn't like seeing him happy and with a wife. LW3 should have been the end. Murtagh retires and Riggs gets a woman. We don't need to know what happens with that. The last traces of Riggs edge are found at the end of LW3. The beginning scene in LW3 was awesome. "Roger. Grab the cat!" It's is awesome in the beginning up until Rene Russo comes into it. She annoys the hell out of me. Not to mention she was cast in every single female lead in the 90's.

Plus, Riggs without a mullet. Does. Not. Work. Just him with the mullet gone makes him seem less crazy. That mullet was the ****.

LW4 just felt like a comedy act. Too many damn characters and too much comedy. Uneccessary. Jet Li sucked as the villain too. I mean LW3's villain wasn't boring enough.

I don't care what Gibson did in real life, I still love his movies and his characters. Although when he asks if he's crazy in LW1, a small voice will go, "Yes."

And I always wanted a Die Hard and Lethal Weapon crossover.

They should've waited for the bomb squad haha. The "back to bed" exchange that Riggs at the end of one of the scenes in LW3 always cracks me.

The hair always annoys me about LW4! He no longer looks intimidating and no longer even looks like Riggs. Didn't even dress like him. It looks more Mel Gibson just walked on set and hammed it in.

I didn't mind Russo, but I hated Jack Travis in the film. He was an incredibly dull villain. After two very menacing threats, Travis was incredibly underwhelming.

And I always wanted that crossover too. Hell, I would've accepted those Riggs and McClaine in a room together trying to outwit each other with jokes or annoying Murtaugh.

 

[Sentinel X]

The 80s action star is obsolete and for good reason. It wasn't Batman that ruined the 80s action star, the superhero genre is a subgenre of so many genres (scifi, fantasy, action) that I can't say its had a huge impact on either genre individually because its kind of become its own genre.

The reason the buff and muscled 80s action here is gone: Aliens. It proved that brawn isn't necessarily going to save you. You have to use brains too. Not to mention there was way too much testosterone in 80s action films. I like things better the way they are now. Although I must admit, watch someone as slight as Angelina Jolie (salt) taking on 100 guys twice her size is a bit off putting....but then again, Arnold (commando) taking on 100 guys is not too credible either.

Also expendables looks terrible

 

[The Executioner]

I agree I liked Martin Riggs better when he was a loner, dark and depressed on the edge cop. He should of never gotten the mullet and the series should of ended after LW3. As for DH4....McClaine was not cracking joke, he was too serious and was like Supercop.

 

[Tony Stark]

Phooey too all of you. 80's Muscle flicks ROCK! I saw Rocky in the theaters when I was 5 years old, and I was so blown away. I loved that movie and every other Rocky movie (except Rocky V).

My first rated R movie I saw in the Theater was Running Man, and I loved it. I still could watch that movie 100 times and never be board.

The Expendables is going to be huge, becuase there are a ton of guys like me in their mid 30's to early 50's, who are dying to see that film. It's the ultimate action hero crossover.

Those of you who say Stallone can't act never saw Cop Land. That was a great movie, and he even got fat for that roll. Also Rocky was a best picture, best director and best screen play all by Sly.

I don't nessisarily agree with everything Stallone said, but I really admire him for putting together the Expendables, and to think he broke his neck just to do it!

 

[co2]

I believe he was being a little tongue in cheek.

I agree. He was making it sound like he wished he'd have thought of it. He was joking folks.
80's action movies are right in my wheelhouse. I grew up knee deep in a heavy diet of them. Arnold, Sly, Van Damme and all the rest were our superheros and their bodies were the costumes. Now, special effects can make the hero look super. So what he said is true, but I don't think he was being vindictive about it.

Plus, Stallone is a decent actor people.

 

[lespaul59]

The Lethal Wepaon films and Die Hard films are incredible. Simple as that, IMO.

But the sad thing is they would get destroyed if they would come out now. My problem with how action movies are looked at today has more to do with people thinking everything has to be some smart life changing film when sometimes a movie is just entertainment. I don't mind people like Matt Damon, Bruce Willis, Mel Gibbson, Danny Glover(except in Predator 2) or any other guy like this in an action movie. I think one problem Hollywood has in general that has probaly hurt action movies the worst is that they think the more money they throw at a movie the better it will be. In some cases this is probaly true but lets face it a pure action movie should rarely go over $50mil. Like should the A-Team have cost $110mil, I think not. But that is just how I see it. And if the interview Sly's comment was taken from was anything like his interview on Letterman I wouldn't take it too serious.


I would also add Rambo 4 as an action movie that in my opinion is a good movie in general.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

But the sad thing is they would get destroyed if they would come out now. My problem with how action movies are looked at today has more to do with people thinking everything has to be some smart life changing film when sometimes a movie is just entertainment. I don't mind people like Matt Damon, Bruce Willis, Mel Gibbson, Danny Glover(except in Predator 2) or any other guy like this in an action movie. I think one problem Hollywood has in general that has probaly hurt action movies the worst is that they think the more money they throw at a movie the better it will be. In some cases this is probaly true but lets face it a pure action movie should rarely go over $50mil. Like should the A-Team have cost $110mil, I think not. But that is just how I see it. And if the interview Sly's comment was taken from was anything like his interview on Letterman I wouldn't take it too serious.


I would also add Rambo 4 as an action movie that in my opinion is a good movie in general.

The funny thing is that Lethal Weapon today probably would've costed only $30-35 million to make when the budget is adjusted for inflation.

Even if he wasn't serious I was still curious about what other people believed what led to the fall of 80s action film.

 

[El Payaso]

I think what finished the 1980's action movies in 1989 was that it was the freeking end of the 1980's.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

That would be true except the genre was dead way before the 80s ended.

Besides we only only calls 80s action hero films because we have no idea what else to call it.

EDIT: Screw it I'll just call it Testostrone films just to avoid confusion.

 

[IBRAH08]

It's ironic because Frank MIller actually wanted to make a movie version of TDKR with none other than Sly himself as Batman. I wonder how that would have changed the world..............

 

[MAN O STEEL]

What Made Arnold, Sly, Van Damme & Willis so memorable as action heroes, that sets them apart from Statham, Rock & Vin Diesel is their little quirks they had. For example:

Stallone: Weird mouth, can't talk properly

Arnold: Speaks with thick Austrian accent, very unique for an action star

Van Damme: Also a foreigner who sounds funny, but yet badass.

Willis: Always playing the down & out guy, who is rough as nails but with a heart of gold

Their unique & Iconic signatures that action stars today don't have IMO.



Steve

 

[daywalker2007]

Stallone was probably just joking.

In a way though, he's right.
Most of todays so called "action stars" actually have no screen presence or charisma or the special aura of actors from previous generations.

Movies are supposed to be entertaining, they don't have to be super "realistic" or "serious" like so many pathetic hollywood ***** seem to think.

2000 to 2010 has been the worst decade for action stars, where the archetypal model of an "action star" has been the Jason Bourne type character. Its been pimped out so much, its now beyond a joke. It simply has to stop, along with the awful crappy shaky cam syndrome that is now prevalent. It seems these days, people don't know how to film something properly without having a seizure midway through a shot.

It has gotten so bad, that that even James Bond suffered the indignity of having his entire character changed due to the Bourne character. Sure, a bit of Bourne action is fine in moderation, but when every goddamn movie bases its style on that, its pretty awful to suffer through.

Basically, the fun, the excitement and escapism somewhat has been vanqished forever from the good old action movie. Its very rare you get an action movie these days that delivers anything good enough to satisfy the audience.

Today's stars barely have enough talent to give us the classic quips and one liners that Arnie and co used to give.

When you watch a James Bond movie and don't see any smug one liners, then you know film making has gotten far too serious for its own good.

Seems like a lot of filmmakers are miserable gits who like to be all serious and "hard", when in reality the films they make are quite laughable.