Star Trek: Discovery

[roach]

The first season of TNG is pretty awful though. There's the wildly racist Code of Honor, or the wildly sexist Angel One, or the one where Picard condemns an entire planet to go through drug withdrawal and so on. There was good reason to hate it.

Fans hated it before the show aired. They hated the ship design. Hated that there was a French captain. Hated that there was a Klingon in Star Fleet. Hated that it wasn’t Kirk and company.

 

[Elayis]

I think the comparison is somewhat apt, but there are notable differences. Roddenberry was still involved with TNG, and many of the people involved had either worked on TOS or were talented in their own right. And even though the first couple of seasons were rough, there were still some good episodes (like Measure of a Man), and overall still captured that "Trek" feel.

Whereas with DSC, it's been pretty clear that CBS is only in it for the money and to launch their new streaming service. Hiring Fuller was a step in the right direction, but when he was forced out I lost all hope. It doesn't help that people like Kurtzman and Goldsman are writers and producers, they have Heroes castoffs like Aron Eli Colette & Jesse Alexander or that the show runners are terrible at writing. And just like with the Kelvin films, the people involved fundamentally misunderstand what Star Trek is.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fans hated it before the show aired. They hated the ship design. Hated that there was a French captain. Hated that there was a Klingon in Star Fleet. Hated that it wasn’t Kirk and company.

At the time, it was pretty much this. Star Trek was only Kirk and Co and not anyone else.

With Discovery, people have had time to get used to seeing many different crews and characters.

For me, anyone is fair game to have in Star Fleet. But it's just that these characters in this show are just not likeable and are very boring. It also just doesn't seem as intelligent as the other shows which often dealt with moral and philosophical dilemmas.

 

[roach]

I think the comparison is somewhat apt, but there are notable differences. Roddenberry was still involved with TNG, and many of the people involved had either worked on TOS or were talented in their own right. And even though the first couple of seasons were rough, there were still some good episodes (like Measure of a Man), and overall still captured that "Trek" feel.

Whereas with DSC, it's been pretty clear that CBS is only in it for the money and to launch their new streaming service. Hiring Fuller was a step in the right direction, but when he was forced out I lost all hope. It doesn't help that people like Kurtzman and Goldsman are writers and producers, they have Heroes castoffs like Aron Eli Colette & Jesse Alexander or that the show runners are terrible at writing. And just like with the Kelvin films, the people involved fundamentally misunderstand what Star Trek is.

Nicholas Meyer is also a writer and producer on Discovery

 

[Elayis]

He's only working on one episode, so far as I know. Not sure what the producer credit is about, but I remember him describing his work on the show as that of a hired gun. There scope of his work was very limited

 

[roach]

At the time, it was pretty much this. Star Trek was only Kirk and Co and not anyone else.

With Discovery, people have had time to get used to seeing many different crews and characters.

For me, anyone is fair game to have in Star Fleet. But it's just that these characters in this show are just not likeable and are very boring. It also just doesn't seem as intelligent as the other shows which often dealt with moral and philosophical dilemmas.

To be fair what TNG character was likeable in the pilot?
They just did an episode on the moral dilemma of using a sentient life form to power their new warp drive.

No one has to like the show. I love TOS but not every episode is a masterpiece. I can count on one hand how many TNG episodes I like. I like DS9 and avoid Voyager like the plague. I like ENT’s Xindi arc. Regardless if I like it or not it’s all still Trek.
Discovery is a Trek.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Fans hated it before the show aired. They hated the ship design. Hated that there was a French captain. Hated that there was a Klingon in Star Fleet. Hated that it wasn’t Kirk and company.

Sure but that's not what's happening here. We're talking about the show as is. I don't really get your point here.

 

[roach]

Sure but that's not what's happening here. We're talking about the show as is. I don't really get your point here.

That’s exactly what’s happening here. Trekkers hated this show before the first episode aired. They hated because it was streaming on CBS Go. They hated that it was 10 years before Kirk. They hated that it had a black female lead. They hated the look of the Klingons. They hated the uniforms. They hated this ships. Very few people went into this show with an open mind.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

They hated that it had a black female lead.

So you're stating that we're actually racist and sexist and that's part of why we don't like the show.

 

[Nathan]

Huh... so apparently STD has stolen a bunch of their ideas from a game called Tardigrades.

 

[roach]

So you're stating that we're actually racist and sexist and that's part of why we don't like the show.

I didn’t say you. I said they. You don’t have to like the show. I just draw the line at people dinging Discovery for things that were in other series. You can hate the look of the Klingons but to complain that they changed with no explanation is crazy especially when TMP changed with no explanation until 2005.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why would anyone who liked both DS9 and Voyager care whether the lead is black and female? It's just that this actress is boring as heck.

If Genevieve Bujold had played Janeway as she was originally supposed to, and people didn't like her (and we've seen what she would be like from the unaired pilot) then would people conclude that we just don't like a female captain?

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I'm no hardcore fan. I'm extremely casual. Only Star Trek show I can remember following back in the day, was Star Trek Voyager. And I enjoyed the new Movies. But even for a casual like me, there's just too much stupid nonsense happening on the new show, with nobody to root for.

Yes but you don't like it just because it doesn't feel like Star Trek of the old. You have reasons of your own beyond that, mainly nonsense stuff ( I agree they are some ) and nobody to root for and that is fine by me.
AFAIC, I don't need someone to root for to like a show but that's me. Like Shamless ( US ), I don't root for anybody but I like the show.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Huh... so apparently STD stolen a bunch of their ideas from a game called Tardigrades.

Oh yes it does indeed.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I didn’t say you. I said they. You don’t have to like the show. I just draw the line at people dinging Discovery for things that were in other series. You can hate the look of the Klingons but to complain that they changed with no explanation is crazy especially when TMP changed with no explanation until 2005.

I certainly can understand where you're coming from but do you actually feel the people in this thread haven't given the show a chance?

We're a third of the way through the season, and I think myself and others have given concrete and clear reasons for why we don't like the show (as of now). Maybe some of those are minute or petty, but the common theme I see is that people feel like Discovery lacks a sense of optimism or hope.

And if someone doesn't like Discovery because Burnham is black then **** them. They don't understand what Star Trek is about.

The show can always get better and if that happens ala TNG then great! But I can only judge Discovery based on what I've seen thus far.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

At the time, it was pretty much this. Star Trek was only Kirk and Co and not anyone else.

With Discovery, people have had time to get used to seeing many different crews and characters.

For me, anyone is fair game to have in Star Fleet. But it's just that these characters in this show are just not likeable and are very boring. It also just doesn't seem as intelligent as the other shows which often dealt with moral and philosophical dilemmas.

So far Discovery did that with the whole using a sentient ( or not ) being as super computer and hurting it in the process.

 

[roach]

What I like about Discovery is that it’s not anything we’ve seen before. There aren’t characters that are just classic characters in a different skin “He’s just like Spock but he’s a different alien”. We have a mutineer trying to redeem herself, an all too eager rookie straight out of the academy, an all too cautious first officer that holds a grudge, and a captain of questionable tactics. We’ve really not seen these characters before.

 

[Nathan]

Yes but you don't like it just because it doesn't feel like Star Trek of the old. You have reasons of your own beyond that, mainly nonsense stuff ( I agree they are some ) and nobody to root for and that is fine by me.
AFAIC, I don't need someone to root for to like a show but that's me. Like Shamless ( US ), I don't root for anybody but I like the show.

I barely even remember Voyager, and the new Star Trek Movies are basically action Movies. So no, I don't dislike it because it doesn't feel like the the Star Trek of old.

 

[roach]

I certainly can understand where you're coming from but do you actually feel the people in this thread haven't given the show a chance?

We're a third of the way through the season, and I think myself and others have given concrete and clear reasons for why we don't like the show (as of now). Maybe some of those are minute or petty, but the common theme I see is that people feel like Discovery lacks a sense of optimism or hope.

And if someone doesn't like Discovery because Burnham is black then **** them. They don't understand what Star Trek is about.

The show can always get better and if that happens ala TNG then great! But I can only judge Discovery based on what I've seen thus far.

At times I feel that some people have made their minds up months ago and are nitpicking to justify it. Not all but some

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I barely even remember Voyager, and the new Star Trek Movies are basically action Movies. So no, I don't dislike it because it doesn't feel like the the Star Trek of old.

Exactly.

 

[Dark Raven]

What I like about Discovery is that it’s not anything we’ve seen before. There aren’t characters that are just classic characters in a different skin “He’s just like Spock but he’s a different alien”. We have a mutineer trying to redeem herself, an all too eager rookie straight out of the academy, an all too cautious first officer that holds a grudge, and a captain of questionable tactics. We’ve really not seen these characters before.

And maybe on paper that might seem interesting. But it's a large part to do with the actors who play them. That roommate is easily the most annoying Star Trek actress ever.

Guardians of the Galaxy was made up of a ragtag team who were mostly all of questionable character. But they were far more interesting. Now imagine if, instead of the actors in there, we got these Star Trek Discovery actors playing them.

 

[roach]

I barely even remember Voyager, and the new Star Trek Movies are basically action Movies. So no, I don't dislike it because it doesn't feel like the the Star Trek of old.

To be fair if you look at all the Star Trek movies how many aren’t action films? How many don’t involve blowing up an enemy at the end? Two out of ten

 

[Nathan]

Well, I can safely say I didn't know about Star Trek Discovery, until it showed up on my Netflix list. So my dislike is pretty fresh. Heck, I admit that I like the re-design of the Klingons, even if they maybe took it a bit too far. Would have preferred them to look like the Into Darkness Klingons. But when I saw that space armor, I was like "Wow, that looks freaking sweet." I didn't even know it was supposed to be a prequel until later, or that the main character is supposed to be Spock's step-sister.

 

[roach]

And maybe on paper that might seem interesting. But it's a large part to do with the actors who play them. That roommate is easily the most annoying Star Trek actress ever.

Guardians of the Galaxy was made up of a ragtag team who were mostly all of questionable character. But they were far more interesting. Now imagine if, instead of the actors in there, we got these Star Trek Discovery actors playing them.

I don’t find her annoying.

 

[The Chris]

To be fair if you look at all the Star Trek movies how many aren’t action films? How many don’t involve blowing up an enemy at the end? Two out of ten

And honestly the action ones have mostly come off better. Look how people talk about Wrath of Khan and First Contact compared to say The Motion Picture, Insurrection or Final Frontier.