Star Trek: Discovery

[Upset Spideyfan]

What I like about Discovery is that it’s not anything we’ve seen before. There aren’t characters that are just classic characters in a different skin “He’s just like Spock but he’s a different alien”. We have a mutineer trying to redeem herself, an all too eager rookie straight out of the academy, an all too cautious first officer that holds a grudge, and a captain of questionable tactics. We’ve really not seen these characters before.

But is Burnham trying to redeem herself? In episode 3 she refuses Lorca's initial offer because she thinks he wants to make weapons and gives a speech about she chooses to lives by the ideals of the Federation.

Then he argues that he's actually making a new way to travel and this changes her mind.

In episode 4, Lorca then tells her to weaponize the Ripper and then uses the Spore Drive to launch attacks on the Klingons. Burnham carries out his orders without serious protest, despite refusing his offer to join on the basis of his making weapons.

Then in episode 5 she begins exhibiting the same behavior that got her a court martial in the first place and rather than convincing Saru to help her by reasoning with him, she just goes and does it behind his back. I don't see consistent morals or motivation here.

And for the record, I also loved the premise, but the atmosphere has been totally oppressive thus far and the writing is frankly pretty shoddy.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

And maybe on paper that might seem interesting. But it's a large part to do with the actors who play them. That roommate is easily the most annoying Star Trek actress ever.

Guardians of the Galaxy was made up of a ragtag team who were mostly all of questionable character. But they were far more interesting. Now imagine if, instead of the actors in there, we got these Star Trek Discovery actors playing them.

I agree, she is annoying ( edit : actually, I want her to die and I don't usually have this kind of feeling for a character show ) but Nix, Cisco's son and some I don't remember were also eyes gouging.

 

[Nathan]

But is Burnham trying to redeem herself? In episode 3 she refuses Lorca's initial offer because she thinks he wants to make weapons and gives a speech about she chooses to lives by the ideals of the Federation.

Then he argues that he's actually making a new way to travel and this changes her mind.

In episode 4, Lorca then tells her to weaponize the Ripper and then uses the Spore Drive to launch attacks on the Klingons.

Oh yeah, this bit was fantastic. ='D

Lorca: "I don't want you to make weapons."

Burnham: "Alright, I'm in."

~1 Episode later~

Lorca: "So I want you to weaponize that thing for me."

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

But is Burnham trying to redeem herself? In episode 3 she refuses Lorca's initial offer because she thinks he wants to make weapons and gives a speech about she chooses to lives by the ideals of the Federation.

Then he argues that he's actually making a new way to travel and this changes her mind.

In episode 4, Lorca then tells her to weaponize the Ripper and then uses the Spore Drive to launch attacks on the Klingons. Burnham carries out his orders without serious protest, despite refusing his offer to join on the basis of his making weapons.

Then in episode 5 she begins exhibiting the same behavior that got her a court martial in the first place and rather than convincing Saru to help her by reasoning with him, she just goes and does it behind his back. I don't see consistent morals or motivation here.

And for the record, I also loved the premise, but the atmosphere has been totally oppressive thus far and the writing is frankly pretty shoddy.

You forget to mention that Micheal was reluctant to weaponize the ripper and was even more after she studied it. Also, Saru was clear about his point of view, he wanted his crew to do what was necessary regardless of the means.

 

[Elayis]

My main issue with the show doesn't have anything to do with canon, or it being different from the Trek of yore, it's simply that the writing was terrible. I was looking forward to a serial show that dealt with darker themes (like DS9). But the writing on DSC is some of the worst I've seen in awhile, particularly the dialogue.

It doesn't help that the show has been very unclear about what it's even about (so much for a cohesive and serial storyline) and most of the characters are boring or irritating. And Burnham's a terrible lead, with both the writing and acting equally to blame.

 

[Dark Raven]

I agree, she is annoying ( edit : actually, I want her to die and I don't usually have this kind of feeling for a character show ) but Nix, Cisco's son and some I don't remember were also eyes gouging.

Are you talking about Neelix?

I felt that he and Jake Cisco were more in the background. But I didn't find them anywhere as annoying as the roommate (is this forever going to be her name? What is her name even?). We have to endure her because she is always going to be in Burnham's room and will be frequently interacting with her.

I could've put up with her more if we had even just one or two more charismatic and engaging actors in the show. At least Burnham should've been the most watchable and engaging character, but clearly she's not. She's just dull.

With Neelix, I found that all the other characters and actors in Voyager offset him. But there's no-one here to offset the roommate.

 

[Dark Raven]

My main issue with the show doesn't have anything to do with canon, or it being different from the Trek of yore, it's simply that the writing was terrible. I was looking forward to a serial show that dealt with darker themes (like DS9). But the writing on DSC is some of the worst I've seen in awhile, particularly the dialogue.

It doesn't help that the show has been very unclear about what it's even about (so much for a cohesive and serial storyline) and most of the characters are boring or irritating. And Burnham's a terrible lead, with both the writing and acting equally to blame.

This. While there are things I wish were closer to Trek canon, I have been fine with the new Star Trek films in the Kelvin universe and have enjoyed them. I even enjoyed Enterprise for what it was, even though that seemed to make things more modernised than what the original series was like back in the 60s.

But this show has been bland, particularly the characters. The Klingons also seem completely unrelatable. Their speech sounds garbled and unclear. They speak like fish people, which is what they look like, and sound like they're talking underwater half the time or with a fish bowl on their head. Even if they were completely new characters and not the Klingons, I would still think this about them.

Star Trek often had lighter episodes in the past amongst their darker episodes. Even DS9 had them. But I can't imagine this series ever doing that. It seems continually dark and oppressive.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Not I was thinking about a Ferengi character but I don't remember which one but as you mention it Neelix was also pretty annoying for me.
Anyway, the roommate in Discovery takes the cake, like annoying at first appearance. As a human character there is also her physical look that I don't like, with HD video and in close up I see bad skin covered with makeup...It's lame I know.

 

[Dark Raven]

Not I was thinking about a Ferengi character but I don't remember which one but as you mention it Neelix was also pretty annoying for me.

Nog? Rom? Quark? The Grand Nagus?

Again, they were offset by the other characters on DS9 so that it made them more tolerable.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

yeah, Nog. Man, you're a Star Trek heraldist !
Edit : and yes I guess she will be known as the "roommate", I still don't know her name but with time, I guess I will

 

[RockSP]

And Stamets and the roommate (whatever her name is) still feel like they belong on a different show.

I don't even know who is part of the main cast and who is just a recurring character here. Is the doctor a regular or just recurring? And what about that woman who sits either at helm or navigation with one side of her head shaven but looks like she has some kind of cybernetic attachments? She was on the Shenzou. Who is she and what's even her name?

What's even the doctor's name?

In all other Trek series, I would've at least known who all the main characters are and their names by now after 5 episodes in.

Okay, but the show has mentioned the names of all those characters. If you haven't bothered to learn their names that's on you.

What I like about Discovery is that it’s not anything we’ve seen before. There aren’t characters that are just classic characters in a different skin “He’s just like Spock but he’s a different alien”. We have a mutineer trying to redeem herself, an all too eager rookie straight out of the academy, an all too cautious first officer that holds a grudge, and a captain of questionable tactics. We’ve really not seen these characters before.

Heh, yeah some people want the exact same show over and over. That's one of the reasons some are heaping waaay too much praise on The Orville: it's a TNG clone (but with lame jokes).

 

[roach]

yeah, Nog. Man, you're a Star Trek heraldist !
Edit : and yes I guess she will be known as the "roommate", I still don't know her name but with time, I guess I will

To me Nog and Jake didn’t get interesting until the writers discovered what to do with them (Nog joining Star Fleet and Jake being a journalist)

 

[roach]

This. While there are things I wish were closer to Trek canon, I have been fine with the new Star Trek films in the Kelvin universe and have enjoyed them. I even enjoyed Enterprise for what it was, even though that seemed to make things more modernised than what the original series was like back in the 60s.

But this show has been bland, particularly the characters. The Klingons also seem completely unrelatable. Their speech sounds garbled and unclear. They speak like fish people, which is what they look like, and sound like they're talking underwater half the time or with a fish bowl on their head. Even if they were completely new characters and not the Klingons, I would still think this about them.

Star Trek often had lighter episodes in the past amongst their darker episodes. Even DS9 had them. But I can't imagine this series ever doing that. It seems continually dark and oppressive.

To be fair they are in the middle of a war. One of the things that bothered me about DS9 is while they’re in the middle of a war, a war they could lose, they stop to play baseball....and that came one episode after he lost his best friend

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Nog? Rom? Quark? The Grand Nagus?

Again, they were offset by the other characters on DS9 so that it made them more tolerable.

Say what you want about Rom, the Nagus, and Nog (though I thought he became a decent character later in the show's run), but Quark was awesome.

 

[roach]

Say what you want about Rom, the Nagus, and Nog (though I thought he became a decent character later in the show's run), but Quark was awesome.

It’s the Laforge Syndrome. Geordie was barely a character until the made him Chief Engineer. Rom and Nog became fully fleshed out characters once the writers figured out what to do with them.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

It’s the Laforge Syndrome. Geordie was barely a character until the made him Chief Engineer. Rom and Nog became fully fleshed out characters once the writers figured out what to do with them.

I've said it before, but that's a big part of the reason why I love DS9 more than the other Trek shows, even character's that would normally just be background in the other shows ended up with their own character arcs and having episodes where they function as main character's. Their supporting cast oftentimes was more developed than most of TNG's main cast. That said Rom's voice made me want to put a drill through my ears.

 

[Elayis]

Heh, yeah some people want the exact same show over and over. That's one of the reasons some are heaping waaay too much praise on The Orville: it's a TNG clone (but with lame jokes).

The Orville's decent enough, but nothing special. I'm not sure why they purposely made a bad looking show (the sets, the plastic-looking ships), and the humor mostly falls flat, but I do prefer it to Discovery. At least the characters are people you can root for that get at least some development. Everyone in Discovery are plot devices spouting exposition.

And the music of Orville is much, much better, too.

 

[Dr.]

Two comments…

I don’t have a strong opinion of the Cadet Tilly character one way or the other. But it’s interesting that some find her “annoying”... while, others - noting the general darkness of the series - think that Tilly (or someone like her) was a desperately needed addition to the cast.

In terms of dialogue, I wouldn’t say DSC is competition for Aaron Sorkin. However, nothing - so far - has struck me as conspicuously weak. I’d go with: sometimes good - and adequate and serviceable at worst. Unlike complaints about editing or cinematography, a critique of dialogue is pretty easy to back up on a message board: just quote the dialogue. So it’s a tad frustrating to hear this complaint and not have it anchored to specific examples.

 

[DKDetective]

That’s exactly what’s happening here. Trekkers hated this show before the first episode aired. They hated because it was streaming on CBS Go. They hated that it was 10 years before Kirk. They hated that it had a black female lead. They hated the look of the Klingons. They hated the uniforms. They hated this ships. Very few people went into this show with an open mind.

Roach, this post is uncalled for. Don't you dare lump the racists/sexists/bigots in with Trek fans generally. It is utterly unfair and demeaning to Trek fans. The sexist and racist backlash to Rey and Finn was not ascribed to Star Wars fans generally. That is a low blow.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I'm a Trek fan.

I dare say that I'm a Trek fan before a Wars fan, and I am a huge SW fan (already have had my Ep. VIII tickets for over a week now).

I grew up with TNG and loved it before I found TOS. I loved Voyager but didn't discover all of DS9 until Netflix. DS9's serialized nature made it difficult for me to follow since I was in the military when it started.

Maybe that's the difference with me, since I actually like this show. It seems the ones that don't like this show tout DS9 and/or TOS a lot.

I mean, Discovery kinda kills continuity with me, being more advanced-feeling and advanced-looking than any of the Trek shows before it, including TNG. That's my one gripe, in that this shouldn't have been a prequel. The Chris Pine movies are the same way, but that's explainable in that they seemed to have gotten exposed to 24th Century tech much earlier in their timeline.

But other than that, the story and the people have made sense to me. I guess I don't carry this torch around about how Trek is "supposed to be" and am only caring about how this show is to me as it is, and it's been fine so far. After downloading the first few episodes, I actually got convinced to CBS's streaming service. (That, and we missed the first few episodes of Survivor.)

 

[roach]

Roach, this post is uncalled for. Don't you dare lump the racists/sexists/bigots in with Trek fans generally. It is utterly unfair and demeaning to Trek fans. The sexist and racist backlash to Rey and Finn was not ascribed to Star Wars fans generally. That is a low blow.

That’s fair. I should have said “some”

 

[roach]

I'm a Trek fan.

I dare say that I'm a Trek fan before a Wars fan, and I am a huge SW fan (already have had my Ep. VIII tickets for over a week now).

I grew up with TNG and loved it before I found TOS. I loved Voyager but didn't discover all of DS9 until Netflix. DS9's serialized nature made it difficult for me to follow since I was in the military when it started.

Maybe that's the difference with me, since I actually like this show. It seems the ones that don't like this show tout DS9 and/or TOS a lot.

I mean, Discovery kinda kills continuity with me, being more advanced-feeling and advanced-looking than any of the Trek shows before it, including TNG. That's my one gripe, in that this shouldn't have been a prequel. The Chris Pine movies are the same way, but that's explainable in that they seemed to have gotten exposed to 24th Century tech much earlier in their timeline.

But other than that, the story and the people have made sense to me. I guess I don't carry this torch around about how Trek is "supposed to be" and am only caring about how this show is to me as it is, and it's been fine so far. After downloading the first few episodes, I actually got convinced to CBS's streaming service. (That, and we missed the first few episodes of Survivor.)

I’m more of a TOS/DS9 fan and I like Discovery.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Captain Lorca has to much leeway. 5 episodes in and he just does what he wants, gets yelled at and basically goes "i do what I want"

 

[Steelsheen]

OK im all CAUGHT UP!!

as per usual a franchise thread as devolved into h8rade but then what else is new on SHH

so it started a little slow for me in the first half of Ep1 but it sure picked up quite quickly on the second half, and it hasnt let me go since. [BLACKOUT]kinda sad that Michelle Yeow's Captain died too soon but ah well....[/BLACKOUT]

i like Discovery A LOT. not sure if its up there with my first love of TNG, but it sure got that potential. already i can sense that this will be as memorable as Voyager.

i followed the hubbub as this series was created a little loosely, yeah it hasnt been smooth sailing but the resulting efforts have been worth it as far as i can see. the fact that they said this was set before Kirk's time and seeing the production quality of this makes me immediately think that "Kirk" is the Chris Pine version, not the Shatner version. i've kinda long since forgo the expectation that they will actually create a TV show as quaint in quality as the TOS was. thats just IRL time and evolution for you fellow Trekkies, lets just accept that and move on.

and if anyone has any question as to my Trek pedigree, i was introduced to TOS when i was 4 yrs old by my grandfather. that was almost 40 years ago (so yes do the math). i do not claim that that alone makes my opinions more weighty than anyone that came to this fandom after me, but i think that should be an example as to the kind of mindset we Trekkies should all have whenever the universe of our beloved fandom is expanded. no, stories will not always line up with Trek history and yes there will always be plotholes, but as long as we can see that they are trying to at least respect the over 50 years of baggage history of the Trek franchise thats good enough trade off for me to continue growing this franchise. after all aint our battle cry To Boldy Go Where No One Has Gone Before?

cant wait for ep 7

 

[Steelsheen]

Captain Lorca has to much leeway. 5 episodes in and he just does what he wants, gets yelled at and basically goes "i do what I want"

he does what he wants because its been proven that he gets results. yes there are better ways to achieve the same results without so much negative consequences, and he's already learning that in ep 6. if anything the characterization of Lorca is pretty darn real, for a good man in a bad situation. i commend the writers for that.