State of Emergency: Baltimore Edition

[ChrisBaleBatman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself’, document says

This is laughable to me.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not saying that is what injured him...I have however watched a guy knock himself out banging his head on the window in the backseat of a police car. He got up on his knees and started slamming his head up against the passenger door window. It took about 3 x and he was out.

 

[Kelly]

What was your point?



I'm aware of the case. I've studied it in school. It was, in fact, exactly what I was referencing. That's why I said "responding to a fleeing suspect with gunfire is illegal in all fifty states" and not "responding to a fleeing suspect who is armed and has displayed violent intentions with gunfire is illegal in all fifty states."

yeah...

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I'm not saying that is what injured him...I have however watched a guy knock himself out banging his head on the window in the backseat of a police car. He got up on his knees and started slamming his head up against the passenger door window. It took about 3 x and he was out.

Yeah, of course. I can accept that.

But...severing his own spine by banging his head against a wall? That's laughable to me.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah, of course. I can accept that.

But...severing his own spine by banging his head against a wall? That's laughable to me.

Yeah, as I said I have no idea if that is what happened, I guess the autopsy will have to tell us that.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Does that sound believable to you, though?

Hell of a coincidence, too. This afternoon, Baltimore PD has effectively gone back on the planned release of details, and that on May 1st, instead, will hand over everything to the DA. That probably means we won't get any information, not even the reason for Gray's arrest, for even longer. And now...we have a leak of information to the Washington Post suggesting he crushed his own voice box and severed his own spine.

It's quite ridiculous, I think. And hey, maybe it's nothing. Apparently it contradicts what the Police Commissioner said six days ago, about what the prisoner who was placed into the wagon at the end of the ride had stated.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Interesting. Did Gray have any record of mental issues

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Even if the story is true and can be proven without doubt, the media worked the situation into a frenzy. It is starting to become a theme where some people don't wait on evidence or facts to protest (or riot). I'm not saying this leaked info pans out or debunks the entire situation. I'm saying so early in a process, there needs to be some pullback of rushing to judgement.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Even if the story is true and can be proven without doubt, the media worked the situation into a frenzy. It is starting to become a theme where some people don't wait on evidence or facts to protest (or riot). I'm not saying this leaked info pans out or debunks the entire situation. I'm saying so early in a process, there needs to be some pullback of rushing to judgement.

I don't think it has to do with the media as much, though. We're at a point that, no matter what your view is, there will be someone on TV that will somehow validate it. There's just a great deal of mistrust from our communities towards the police. Think of it kind of like an anti- (local) government sentiment. You don't really need the media to tell you what to think if you already mistrust that thing that's being reported on.

The mistrust that has layered on over decades of violence is a hell of a thing to fix.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I don't think it has to do with the media as much, though. We're at a point that, no matter what your view is, there will be someone on TV that will somehow validate it. There's just a great deal of mistrust from our communities towards the police. Think of it kind of like an anti- (local) government sentiment. You don't really need the media to tell you what to think if you already mistrust that thing that's being reported on.

The mistrust that has layered on over decades of violence is a hell of a thing to fix.

I see your point, but I also have mistrust in American media and think they act as agitators at times.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Sidenote, what is up with that Foxnews guy reporter wearing the same jean shirt 3 days straight?

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Sidenote, what is up with that Foxnews guy reporter wearing the same jean shirt 3 days straight?

He's seasoning it. Building up a good funk so people keep their distance.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

He's seasoning it. Building up a good funk so people keep their distance.

lol!!!!!! I just spit out some beer on my textbook (serious). Of course writing a report should probably be done without alcohol. I had a 10 hour study day though

 

[Greens]

Police brutality is a real problem, but I just can't subscribe to the idea that rioting and looting is a logical response. I don't like the police so I destroy local businesses and attack emergency personnel.

 

[chaseter]

Rioting and looting is the response of a bunch of idiotic thugs.

No one can say otherwise.

 

[PemLam]

Rioting and looting is the response of a bunch of idiotic thugs.

No one can say otherwise.

Agree with your first sentence completely. I'd go farther and say anyone that condones or attempts to justify rioting and looting are also idiots.

Unfortunately there are people who say otherwise; even going so far as to post "rationalities" for rioting. Sad and pathetic.

 

[Kar]

We can all agree that looting and damaging property is wrong and come up with a zillion other ways protesters or anyone upset can go about it differently. But why can never seem to come up with suggestions on how to fix the police. Everything goes back to the blacks/protesters. "If they fixed their communities, stopped blaming whitey, stop calling themselves thugs, stop having rap sheets" and so forth but never the cops. It's "I would have did the same thing, he shouldn't have ran, he shouldn't have been playing with a toy gun..." all things that point back to putting the blame on the victims and holding them accountable for their own deaths with piss poor reasons. All the effort used to picking apart "what's wrong" with the black community and trying to fix it can go towards picking apart what's wrong with police.

We're being shown videos of officers planting evidence, reports of cops making false claims, etc. but everyone is focusing on the rioters. Let's talk about what led to this in the first place.

 

[Victarion]

Kar, that's one of the points I've been addressing in my previous posts. I talk about both, actually. Before I go any further, keep in mind that context is key. I don't see why someone would feel the need to run from the cops (unless you're doing something that's against the law). If you're stopped by the cops, conduct yourself respectfully and, in the event something happens, let the body cam footage speak for itself. The toy gun thing is a bit trickier. My gut response is that the kid should've dropped it like he was told to do. So there really is no right or wrong, good or bad side to this. You can find more in my previous posts that touch on officers who act in an overly aggressive manner once they've detained whomever it is they're detaining.

 

[Kar]

Yes, I've noticed, Victarion. Sorry if it came off as I accusing you of anything. I was specifically speaking about the ones who aren't doing what you are. I agree that all these situations have two sides, it's just that one side tends to gets the advantage with an abuse of power.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I see your point, but I also have mistrust in American media and think they act as agitators at times.

I would go so far as to say they're complicit, as well.

Consider how bad damn near all the media, as a whole, looked by attending the correspondents dinner as riots broke out. What if that was just Rand Paul? Hillary Clinton? The media, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC, would have had coverage and panels with talking heads about how "out of touch" said person would be.

Police brutality is a real problem, but I just can't subscribe to the idea that rioting and looting is a logical response. I don't like the police so I destroy local businesses and attack emergency personnel.

Logical how? Because, one could argue that it is a logical one in terms to how things build up and explode. I wouldn't say it's an excuse or a justification. But, I wouldn't say it's a surprise, either.

Isn't this how, ultimately, anti-government sentiments can boil over and lead to violence?

 

[Kelly]

I would go so far as to say they're complicit, as well.

Consider how bad damn near all the media, as a whole, looked by attending the correspondents dinner as riots broke out. What if that was just Rand Paul? Hillary Clinton? The media, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC, would have had coverage and panels with talking heads about how "out of touch" said person would be.



Logical how? Because, one could argue that it is a logical one in terms to how things build up and explode. I wouldn't say it's an excuse or a justification. But, I wouldn't say it's a surprise, either.

Isn't this how, ultimately, anti-government sentiments can boil over and lead to violence?

It would be a logical response to me, if it was cars on the street, police cars especially, throwing things at the cops, etc.

What makes me stop and think...."really, your motive for doing all of this is that you are SO ANGRY at the way cops in your area are treating the citizens"...so you go and burn down a old folks community center, and break the windows of the liquor store, or head for the CVS pharmacy...because your mad, or because you see an opportunity to get the good stuff?.....and then you cut the hose as they are trying to put out the fire that you "in a fit of anger" started? I'm sorry, but I do not get that...and I find it very hard to have sympathy for the people doing that. I have an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of sympathy for the family of the man who died, because they have lost someone they loved. It has nothing to do with the circumstances RIGHT NOW, once I know all of the details, then I will pass judgment in the way I see fit, and give my opinion. I have sympathy for the store owners that had absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Right now that is as far as my sympathy goes.

 

[The Question]

It would be a logical response to me, if it was cars on the street, police cars especially, throwing things at the cops, etc.

What makes me stop and think...."really, your motive for doing all of this is that you are SO ANGRY at the way cops in your area are treating the citizens"...so you go and burn down a old folks community center, and break the windows of the liquor store, or head for the CVS pharmacy...because your mad, or because you see an opportunity to get the good stuff?.....and then you cut the hose as they are trying to put out the fire that you "in a fit of anger" started? I'm sorry, but I do not get that...and I find it very hard to have sympathy for the people doing that. I have an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of sympathy for the family of the man who died, because they have lost someone they loved. It has nothing to do with the circumstances RIGHT NOW, once I know all of the details, then I will pass judgment in the way I see fit, and give my opinion. I have sympathy for the store owners that had absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Right now that is as far as my sympathy goes.

According to the Baltimore fire department, the senior center fire had nothing to do with the riots. It happened several miles away.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

According to the Baltimore fire department, the senior center fire had nothing to do with the riots. It happened several miles away.

Hmmm. It has been in development since 2006. Opportunity for insurance pay? Ah conspiracies.

 

[Kar]

I heard it might have actually been sparked from a tear gas canister or something along those lines that the cops threw. I'd have to check again.

 

[Kelly]

I heard it might have actually been sparked from a tear gas canister or something along those lines that the cops threw. I'd have to check again.

Ok, so here we have two stories.

1. That says it had nothing to do with the riots, it was miles away.
2. That says it was sparked by a tear gas canister thrown by police.

My question is, why was a tea gas canister being thrown miles away from the riots?