Revenge of the Fallen Story, Themes, Characterizations and Character Development

[CEREBRAL....]

I said this in another thread. I really didn't have an issue with the story or the flow...i do think some scene weren't good which probably hurt the overall take on the story but to me, there's so much Bay could of explored or did with the TFs.

Like why not have Acree and Mikaela team up, i mean Mikaela was already riding a bike..why not have them team up..It would of made sense having her (acree) with them instead of the twiins, Acree could of been ordered by Prime to follow them similiar to how Bumblee did in the first film. Acree could came right at that "pretender moment" Her and Mikaela could of even had their "girl power moment" and for a little bit of a laugh. Had Bumble bee and Sam roll their eyes at it or something..that would of made sense and i thought would of been cool

and someone mention this already but Bay should of (as part as the final scene) had an air attack between starscream and jetfire..that would of been cool...could of even throw a line in there from starscream about jeftfire being a trader...Let starscream get the better exchange in the "dogfight" having Jetfire close to being finish and to show his loyalty adn fight for the cause...have him combine with prime..

another thing i didnt like was..it seem'd like Prime was taken on all the deceps by myself. (forest scene and last scene) why leave the autobots in the background or have them come in late. The last scene instead of it being Prime vs megs and the fallen..

bay could of set up a scene where Prime was battling the fallen and megs is getting ready to sneak up behind him but ironhide comes into the scene to spoil megs plan. Also have ironhide even mention the fact that he wants to get even with megs for what he did to jazz...i think that would/could tied both the movies in together....


Oh yeah and they could of used soundwaves real minions..instead of all those misc deceps...they would of done the same exact thing..

 

[rashad]

like in the first movie when they got BB?

Great call dark! Yeah something similar to that scene (or when Prime's reading coordinates from the glasses) would've been fine. I felt there should've been a scene from their perspective. Especially since ROTF was a more Decepticon focused film.

 

[AEmovieguy]

Here is a very general --thus subject to scrutiny-- alternate layout of Revenge of the Fallen:

I think the story would have had more impact if Bumblebee showed up to sacrifice himself for Sam and Optimus during the Forest Battle. The other Autobots arrive shortly afterwards to fight off Megatron, Starscream, and Grindor, and Megatron and the others escape with one of Optimus Prime's Orange Blades.

Megatron takes the orange blade back to the Fallen as "evidence" that the last Prime has been dealt with, and the Fallen can now "safely" unearth the sun destroyer/harvester once they locate the key (the Matrix of Leadership). Starscream questions Megatron in private, and Megatron reveals he is simply planning to use the Fallen to harness the Energon for his own army.

Meanwhile, Sam is heartbroken over Bumblebee. Optimus reveals that the Matrix of Leadership could revive Bumblebee, but unearthing the Matrix would run the risk of it falling into the hands of the Decepticons and the destruction of Sam's World. Sam chooses to take that risk...

At this point, the plot could choose to forego Agent Simmons and let Optimus locate Jetfire, or Optimus could admit to not knowing the location of Jetfire (who knows the Matrix's location), allowing Leo to whimperingly interject about Simmons (who the Autobots track through his website's I.P.).

At a point before they reach the Matrix's resting place, Wheelie would make contact with Soundwave (or vice versa), who would relay the information to Megatron. Thus, instead of needlessly having the Fallen alert the world of his presence, Wheelie actually serves as a Double Agent, whether he likes it or not.

Optimus smashes the hole in the tomb, while Ironhide and Ratchet threaten the twins with their guns if they keep up their squabbling.

Sam grabs the Matrix of Leadership, and it turns to dust. This would help Bumblebee and Sam's character/relationship arch because Sam had cast Bumblebee aside, claiming he didn't need him now that he's going off to college. Sam realizes how much Bumblebee really means to him, deciding to take the dust to BumbleBee out of faith that it will work anyway.

This also will help him realize how much Mikeala means to him, when he says, "I love you" to her before they charge to where the Army is with Bumblebee's body. Mikeala responds, "You said it first...", allowing for a tender moment before they have to make their charge.

Wheelie has alerted Soundwave, who had alerted the rest of the Decepticons to attack. The heroes make their way into a trap, but Wheelie can't go through with it, foiling the surprise and is killed for his insubordination.

The Autobots split up on the outside of the town's perimeter as a decoy for Sam and Mikeala to head up the middle. In general, the same events happen, but Ratchet or Ironhide gets to play out BumbleBee's fight.

Sam's parents are not used as bait...yet, and Devastator has not been formed or climbed the pyramid.

Sam is killed and "earns" the Matrix of Leadership to revive BumbleBee, but Optimus's fears come to fruition as the Fallen teleports in to swipe the Matrix of Leadership.

The Fallen begins to activate the Sun destroyer/harvester after using the Matrix to revive the Constructicons from the battle to form Devastator (no more clones). The Fallen cues the release of Sam's parents under Devastator as a decoy.

Megatron tells Starscream that the time is almost here, and that they need only keep up this charade until the machine is ready, using the Fallen to protect the device.

Instead of Sam's dad not letting him go, Sam is the one reluctant to let BumbleBee join in the final fray. It is now that BumbleBee drops his act and speaks, harkening to his question to Sam at the beginning of the film, "This is our purpose, Sam."

The music escalates, and the autobots and military take on Devastator and try to break through the Fallen's whirling stone perimeter around the pyramid. During this time, Soundwave comes down to take on Sideswipe, Jolt, and Arcee. BumbleBee, the Twins, Sam, and Mikeala save Sam's parents. Jetfire is mortally wounded. Simmons calls in the secret military weapon to eliminate Devastator, while Optimus and the others try to penetrate the Pyramid's whirling perimeter.

Eventually, the machine is ready, and Megatron stabs the Fallen from behind, exclaiming, "Only a Prime, huh?!" The Fallen drops, as do his circling stones.

As Megatron goes to initiate the machine, the stones can be seen rising once more behind Megatron. Starscream jets off as fast as possible as he sees the Fallen levitate up from behind Megatron. Megatron is blasted by the Fallen and plummets to the base of the pyramid, barely surviving.

At this point, JetPrime is formed and has an extended battle atop the Pyramid, having to deal with the Fallen's telekinetic abilities. Prime wins. Megatron retreats with Starscream, and the film rolls on.

------

Very general and admittedly flawed, but it's just a thought.

It allows for a better arch for Sam and Bumblebee's relationship after their talk in the garage. Megatron AND the Fallen come off as far tougher than in the real film. Plus, you get some extended time with all the Autobots as they come along, and there would be no more clones (as the Constructicons are revived by the Fallen to form Devastator).

-AEmovieguy-

 

[SciFi Warlock]

Here is a very general --thus subject to scrutiny-- alternate layout of Revenge of the Fallen:

I think the story would have had more impact if Bumblebee showed up to sacrifice himself for Sam and Optimus during the Forest Battle. The other Autobots arrive shortly afterwards to fight off Megatron, Starscream, and Grindor, and Megatron and the others escape with one of Optimus Prime's Orange Blades.

Megatron takes the orange blade back to the Fallen as "evidence" that the last Prime has been dealt with, and the Fallen can now "safely" unearth the sun destroyer/harvester once they locate the key (the Matrix of Leadership). Starscream questions Megatron in private, and Megatron reveals he is simply planning to use the Fallen to harness the Energon for his own army.

Meanwhile, Sam is heartbroken over Bumblebee. Optimus reveals that the Matrix of Leadership could revive Bumblebee, but unearthing the Matrix would run the risk of it falling into the hands of the Decepticons and the destruction of Sam's World. Sam chooses to take that risk...

At this point, the plot could choose to forego Agent Simmons and let Optimus locate Jetfire, or Optimus could admit to not knowing the location of Jetfire (who knows the Matrix's location), allowing Leo to whimperingly interject about Simmons (who the Autobots track through his website's I.P.).

At a point before they reach the Matrix's resting place, Wheelie would make contact with Soundwave (or vice versa), who would relay the information to Megatron. Thus, instead of needlessly having the Fallen alert the world of his presence, Wheelie actually serves as a Double Agent, whether he likes it or not.

Optimus smashes the hole in the tomb, while Ironhide and Ratchet threaten the twins with their guns if they keep up their squabbling.

Sam grabs the Matrix of Leadership, and it turns to dust. This would help Bumblebee and Sam's character/relationship arch because Sam had cast Bumblebee aside, claiming he didn't need him now that he's going off to college. Sam realizes how much Bumblebee really means to him, deciding to take the dust to BumbleBee out of faith that it will work anyway.

This also will help him realize how much Mikeala means to him, when he says, "I love you" to her before they charge to where the Army is with Bumblebee's body. Mikeala responds, "You said it first...", allowing for a tender moment before they have to make their charge.

Wheelie has alerted Soundwave, who had alerted the rest of the Decepticons to attack. The heroes make their way into a trap, but Wheelie can't go through with it, foiling the surprise and is killed for his insubordination.

The Autobots split up on the outside of the town's perimeter as a decoy for Sam and Mikeala to head up the middle. In general, the same events happen, but Ratchet or Ironhide gets to play out BumbleBee's fight.

Sam's parents are not used as bait...yet, and Devastator has not been formed or climbed the pyramid.

Sam is killed and "earns" the Matrix of Leadership to revive BumbleBee, but Optimus's fears come to fruition as the Fallen teleports in to swipe the Matrix of Leadership.

The Fallen begins to activate the Sun destroyer/harvester after using the Matrix to revive the Constructicons from the battle to form Devastator (no more clones). The Fallen cues the release of Sam's parents under Devastator as a decoy.

Megatron tells Starscream that the time is almost here, and that they need only keep up this charade until the machine is ready, using the Fallen to protect the device.

Instead of Sam's dad not letting him go, Sam is the one reluctant to let BumbleBee join in the final fray. It is now that BumbleBee drops his act and speaks, harkening to his question to Sam at the beginning of the film, "This is our purpose, Sam."

The music escalates, and the autobots and military take on Devastator and try to break through the Fallen's whirling stone perimeter around the pyramid. During this time, Soundwave comes down to take on Sideswipe, Jolt, and Arcee. BumbleBee, the Twins, Sam, and Mikeala save Sam's parents. Jetfire is mortally wounded. Simmons calls in the secret military weapon to eliminate Devastator, while Optimus and the others try to penetrate the Pyramid's whirling perimeter.

Eventually, the machine is ready, and Megatron stabs the Fallen from behind, exclaiming, "Only a Prime, huh?!" The Fallen drops, as do his circling stones.

As Megatron goes to initiate the machine, the stones can be seen rising once more behind Megatron. Starscream jets off as fast as possible as he sees the Fallen levitate up from behind Megatron. Megatron is blasted by the Fallen and plummets to the base of the pyramid, barely surviving.

At this point, JetPrime is formed and has an extended battle atop the Pyramid, having to deal with the Fallen's telekinetic abilities. Prime wins. Megatron retreats with Starscream, and the film rolls on.

------

Very general and admittedly flawed, but it's just a thought.

It allows for a better arch for Sam and Bumblebee's relationship after their talk in the garage. Megatron AND the Fallen come off as far tougher than in the real film. Plus, you get some extended time with all the Autobots as they come along, and there would be no more clones (as the Constructicons are revived by the Fallen to form Devastator).

-AEmovieguy-

Interesting thoughts but I would make one small change. I think it would work better if it was something along the lines of a vector sigma sort of thing (the power that activated the Arielbots and Stunticons in the G1 series) instead of the Matrix of Leadership to revive a fallen Bumblebee.

I say this for two reasons, the Matrix reviving Bumblebee somewhat makes him in the ranks of Primes as the Matrix is not supposed to be a cure all for all Transformers. The second reason is that I did not buy that the Matrix of leadership was the power source of the sun catcher as it seems to cheapen it's importance by making it both a cure all and a power source not a power unique to the Prime line.

 

[AEmovieguy]

Interesting thoughts but I would make one small change. I think it would work better if it was something along the lines of a vector sigma sort of thing (the power that activated the Arielbots and Stunticons in the G1 series) instead of the Matrix of Leadership to revive a fallen Bumblebee.

I say this for two reasons, the Matrix reviving Bumblebee somewhat makes him in the ranks of Primes as the Matrix is not supposed to be a cure all for all Transformers. The second reason is that I did not buy that the Matrix of leadership was the power source of the sun catcher as it seems to cheapen it's importance by making it both a cure all and a power source not a power unique to the Prime line.

While it wasn't explained so thoroughly in the movie, I should have made that connection since it's called the Matrix of "Leadership."

Thanks for the correction and insight.

-AEmovieguy-

 

[The Guard]

Wasn't the Matrix of Leadership always more or less a cure all? Like the Allspark? .

 

[Corpus Luteum]

This is hilarious: http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php

Warning: major spoilers!

 

[The Guard]

So I read a bunch of classic Transformers TPB's this weekend. This movie's story is actually pretty comparable (sans the jokes) in quality to most of them.

And I notice that even that refurbished story basically just swaps Bumblee for Prime (which I do kind of like), says "Make characters react to the deaths), and keeps the same basic story and story elements.

So why do people keep saying the overall story itself is awful?

 

[AEmovieguy]

So I read a bunch of classic Transformers TPB's this weekend. This movie's story is actually pretty comparable (sans the jokes) in quality to most of them.

And I notice that even that refurbished story basically just swaps Bumblee for Prime (which I do kind of like), says "Make characters react to the deaths), and keeps the same basic story and story elements.

So why do people keep saying the overall story itself is awful?

I think that most, who are upset, are upset over the holes in logic (many discussed in the link Corpus Luteum posted), subjectively distasteful humor, and how the story was handled.

My refurbishment is just a very general way to make the story that they already chose, possibly, more meaningful.

I admitted it was flawed because it does not deal with the myriad of specifics that need tweaking/reworking, which would require me to write a whole new script. I might be capable oldrazz of doing such a thing, but it would be very time consuming to perfect -- time that was not given to the actual writers due to the strike.

I think the general story that they went with was workable (obviously, since it's on screen and made so much money), but it could have been approached and handled better from a filmmaking and screenplay standpoint.

-AEmovieguy-

Edit: Please, note that my main accusation is toward the Studio's forced timeframe, as I am sure that those involved could have produced something far superior with more time.

 

[Visceral]

I think I like this thread as it makes the suggestion that maybe some of the adaptaions we have recently been bombarded with in recent years isn't bad because of the execution and adherence to the source material is too loose, its because the actual source material isn't all that great.

This movie doesn't take itself seriously as it should.

Another example and I think I may get flamed for this is the fantastic four films which are in actuality really fun but for some reason they were not popular enough with the general public for the hardcore fans to accept them. Sure Glacticus was a cloud, that might upset some but not from loving the rest of the films which adapt simple source material into a simple lighthearted film.

Transformers is based on a toy.

Merchandise. The source material is a cartoon made to sell toys.

I'm already not taking the source material seriously. So there is no way they could ever make a complex transformers movie because a transformers film that takes itself seriously misses the point.

 

[Krimasen]

I love the movie (seen it twice), but the weak characterization gapes bigger each time. I don't who wrote the script, but they really could've tweaked it a bit. It felt like an amateur writer just writing down big scenes and events and loosely throwing in dialogue to keep it all together. It seemed like the only real characterization was with the Decepticons (namely The Fallen, Megatron, and Starscream). I don't believe they had any scenes showing the Autobots talking with each other without the human characters nearby and they had really no scenes at all with Josh Duhamel and Tyrese conversing like they did in the first movie.

As far as themes go, they went with the classic "reluctant hero" approach for Sam and the "Christ-like figure" for Optimus, who dies and is then resurrected.

I know the source material is based on toys on a cartoon, but even a movie like Pirates of the Caribbean (based on a theme park ride) can have a coherent story (except in the 3rd one and a big chunk of the 2nd one).

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Well what do you expect from a movie about a rich billionaire who fights crime at night? Or a bunch of actors who go to Vietnam to shoot a war movie only to find themselves in the middle of a real war? Or a robot left behind on Earth? Or a space crew on a mission to save planets and races? Or an old man and his house with thousands of balloons?

These are all summer popcorn movies with "preposterous" plots wherein one would have to suspend reality to believe it to be real. Entertaining? Check. Intellectuality and emotionally stimulating? Check.

I found this on another forum, by a user named neth_row, in response to people saying that this is just based off a toyline.

 

[Ipodman]

Decepticons are evil! When Sam got slammed down onto the ground, i nearly fainted