Comics Superman and his many powers

[Dr. Fate]

I hear a lot of Superman haters and sometimes just casual folk bash Superman for having "too many powers". I don't have a problem with Superman having multiple powers, my problem is more that it feels sometimes like he doesn't utilize all of them. There have been times when either reading Superman comic books or watching him in his many varied media adaptations where it feels like he wins not because of any creative use of his powers but more that he wins simply because he's the strongest son of a b**** alive. I love brute force as much as the next guy, but when you have around 10 different powers, you oughta to be able to use them more creatively.

How do the rest of you feel about this?

 

[Spike_x1]

It depends on who he's fighting, really.

I mean, if he's up against a villain who can match him in terms of strength and invulnerability, like Mongul for example, then Superman's heat vision and/or arctic breath probably won't hurt him nearly as much as a punch to the face would, so why should he bother fighting using anything other than his speed and strength, primarily?

 

[Dr. Fate]

It depends on who he's fighting, really.

I mean, if he's up against a villain who can match him in terms of strength and invulnerability, like Mongul for example, then Superman's heat vision and/or arctic breath probably won't hurt him nearly as much as a punch to the face would, so why should he bother fighting using anything other than his speed and strength, primarily?

Touche (although when he cranks up that heat vision he can still do some hurtin').

 

[Spike_x1]

True, but he wouldn't normally go all out with his heat vision. And if his fight with the previous Blackrock is any indication, his heat vision has been given a pretty big powerup, considering that even in the pre-crisis years, Blackrock was an equal to Superman, and his namesake's stories do seem to be in continuity.

 

[Joker]

You know what the best power ever was? Back in the silver age when one of Supergirls powers was "super-woman's intuition"

 

[not_a_victim]

Yeah, I have never understood why Supes doesnt use his heat vision more. I can understand not wanting folks to compare him to Cyclops, though Supes was around and had the power first, but I would think it would be a more efficient way to dispatch some of the problems he comes up against.

 

[Spike_x1]

Yeah, I have never understood why Supes doesnt use his heat vision more. I can understand not wanting folks to compare him to Cyclops, though Supes was around and had the power first, but I would think it would be a more efficient way to dispatch some of the problems he comes up against.

Again, it depends on who he's fighting. I mean, when it comes to heat vision in particular, a lot of his foes are capable of shrugging off or otherwise redirecting the beams. A lot of them aren't capable of it, but a lot of them are.

 

[Arach Knight]

Heat vision almost always has a lethal effect. Unlike Cyclops, who's optic blast is a show of concussive force....Superman's heat vision is just that. Heat vision. Using it on some people would be far outside the bounds of Supermans moral code of conduct. Just look at Superman/Batman #10, when they are at Themyscira and that army of Doomsday's come out of the Boom Tube. Supes let loose only a fraction of his power, and he pretty much incinerated the entire field of clones (note that they are imperfect, and thus, much less resistant to heat vision, unlike the true Doomsday). Unless death is what he has in mind for the opponent, it isn't likely that he will utilize heat vision at every turn. You would have to be Doomsday or Darkseid, for Supes to feel comfortable about letting loose with that power.

As for having too many powers...I don't think that is much of an argument. The fact tha his powers make him unstoppable to nearly everyone, can be a bit of a problem, but the powers themselves aren't much of an issue. In his original days, Superman wasn't even 1/4 as powerful as he is now. No heat vision, no flying, no super breath etc etc. I do agree that Superman dd give birth to every primary power out there though.

 

[Spike_x1]

Heat vision almost always has a lethal effect. Unlike Cyclops, who's optic blast is a show of concussive force....Superman's heat vision is just that. Heat vision. Using it on some people would be far outside the bounds of Supermans moral code of conduct. Just look at Superman/Batman #10, when they are at Themyscira and that army of Doomsday's come out of the Boom Tube. Supes let loose only a fraction of his power, and he pretty much incinerated the entire field of clones (note that they are imperfect, and thus, much less resistant to heat vision, unlike the true Doomsday). Unless death is what he has in mind for the opponent, it isn't likely that he will utilize heat vision at every turn. You would have to be Doomsday or Darkseid, for Supes to feel comfortable about letting loose with that power.

As for having too many powers...I don't think that is much of an argument. The fact tha his powers make him unstoppable to nearly everyone, can be a bit of a problem, but the powers themselves aren't much of an issue. In his original days, Superman wasn't even 1/4 as powerful as he is now. No heat vision, no flying, no super breath etc etc. I do agree that Superman dd give birth to every primary power out there though.

Why does everyone always assume that? Nearly every single member of his rogues gallery has the power to stand up to Superman and give as good as they get.

 

[Arach Knight]

Because Superman nearly is unstoppable. Take away kryptonite, and Metallo is instantly less of a threat. Toy Man? Not even a metahuman. Lex Luthor? Mostly a pain beacuse of his social influence, but in a raw fight, obviously he is nothing without a power suit or kryptonite. Parasite is as much of a pain as Supes allows him to be. If supes were more violent, he could face off against Parasite and merely use heat vision to keep his distance and incapaciate him. Unless we are talking Doomsday or Darkseid, Superman's rogues gallery isn't some massive threat. Even in Our World Is at War, Supes took on that whole team of super villains. One he threw into space, one he completly froze solid...and I forget what he did to the rest. And that took what...two pages? There is no reason to deny the deity like power of Superman. Sheesh, he vaporized an entire field of Doomsday's. Imperfect or not, he vaporized a field of super powered menaces.

 

[Spike_x1]

That's the kind of narrow-minded thinking Jeph Loeb uses when writing supervillains.

Try reading a comic and understanding the actual powers of Superman's villains instead of relying on the inaccurate status quo from the Silver Age or the animated series.

Metallo lost his kryptonite in the very second issue of Superman, and didn't get it back until more than a decade later. And all through that time, he proved himself to be more than up to the task of going toe-to-toe with Superman and holding his own. His raw brute strength and technological nigh-omnipotence have much more potential than you realize. Having kryptonite in his chest is just something that you, and many other new readers, have come to expect from the character because of how he's recently been portrayed in the comics, as well as in the cartoon.

And the Parasite? Uhh... no. There's a reason why he's been referred to as "the Energy Absorbing Man." You do know that heat is energy, right?

I like how you just automatically dismissed both Lex and the Toyman simply because they're not metas. Very nice.

If you are actually basing your opinions in this thread simply on recent comics and the cartoons, then I can see why you'd be confused on this subject. Not your fault, but read a Superman comic from the 90's, back when the villains' history and powers were actually developed, and then you'll understand.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

And here I thought we were going to talk about Silver Age Supes, when they would make up powers whenever it was convenient.

 

[Arach Knight]

I have actully had older books (before the 90's) where Superman took on Metallo, and you know what, kryptonite was his only real edge (sorry if the 80' was too "recent"). I only used Our World is At War, because it is a nice modern reference of post-crisis and slightly depowered Supes, who still completely owns. Think about it logically. The man can fly nearly the speed of light. Do you think anybody can honestly touch him, unless he allows it? Denying that Superman is a near god among men, is no better than Batman fans who say "Batman has gone toe to toe and he survied." You know why? Because Superman never tries to seriously wound or kill people. In fact, beyond the occasionally crappy writing in which Supes says "It took all of my strength to subdue <insert foie>", supes almost alwys never goes all out.

Doomsday, Darkseid and a recent battle with Wonder Woman, are the only times I can truly think of Superman going utterly ape s**t in a fight. Otherwise, how often does Superman ever truly cut loose? You think i'm basing it on recent portrayals? I don't even like Superman, but i've still read quite a few of his tales from the 80's till now. Trust me, the guy is nearly unbeatable unless the writers feel like it happening. I'm not trying to down on Supes rogue gallery...I find them far more enjoyable than some of the Flash's staples. I'm just saying, that the main reasn they give him grief, is because he lets them. Superman has proven many a time (Our World is At War being the best and most recent example) that when he does't feel like dealing with s**t, he'll beat you down in seconds. Given his boyscout natue though, he tends to fght in a sporting fashion. This isn't a reflection on how skilled or unsklled his rogues are, but rather a dynamic device to make Superman stories more entertaining. Thank God they dont treat him like Goku in Dragon Ball, and just throw more powerful freaks of the week at him, every issue. That is why we can appreciate the fact that although Superman could obliterate the maority of his rogues with ease, he doesn't.

 

[Spike_x1]

Just because you say that kryptonite was Metallo's only real edge does not make it so.

Corben was kicking Superman around easily when he had a geomagnet in his body to link him to the earth. He nearly destroyed Metropolis right after he received the ability to configure technology to his will. It's the writers' own damn fault that they never had him try any of these feats again after he attempted them the first time.

It is a fact that Superman cannot defeat the Parasite in a straight up physical match. Using his speed is out of the question since Rudy absorbs kinetic energy. Using heat vision will only work against Superman as well. Using cold breath is the only thing Supes can do that will actually work to his advantage, but not by much. The Parasite is still strong enough by himself to break out of some ice.

Barrage has impact-absorbing armor the makes Superman's speed and strength pretty much useless against him. The armor also reflects heat vision away from it.

Riot can simply multiply and completely swarm all over Superman if he's not careful, and any strong impact against him simply causes him to split into two more Riots. It's a safe bet that if Superman just outright blasted away at a bunch of Riots, all he'd end up with is an entire army against him.

Manchester Black and Maxima can protect themselves from the brunt of Superman's attacks with telekinesis, and then use the tk right back at Superman.

Blackrock is equal to Superman in strength and speed and can create force fields of incredible strength.

Silver Banshee's scream and invulnerability is easily enough to stand up to and kill Superman. And like Skyhook, because she's a supernatural villain, she is capable of just using her claws to tear the hell out of him.

Mongul was originally equal to Superman in strength and invulnerability. His armor also has a cannon that blasts the hell out of Superman regularly.

Terra-man is capable of just using the earth itself as a weapon against Superman. It's very likely that his latest armor (before his craptacular death) was designed with Superman in mind, so he could probably just reflect heat vision away and go mano e mano with Supes, although he never put it to the test as far as I know.

Despite what you believe, the majority of Superman's rogues are capable of withstanding his over emphasized heat vision (at least it is in this debate), reflecting it away from them, or otherwise absorbing it (Lord knows why Metallo never thought to configure his body to take in the heat and further power himself, or create reflective plating to line his body). They can also either stand and take Superman's punches, or stop him from delivering said punches in the first place.

 

[Arach Knight]

Maxima - isn't a rogue for Superman any longer...

Metallo - captured and incapacitated in Year One, by none other than the Toy Man, who surprise surprise, isn't allergic to kryptonite.

Manchester Black - I recently read a graphic novel where Superman took on an entire team of supervillains who were seemingly kicking the crap out of him. Manchester Black used telepathy on Supes, who later turned around and told Manchester that he ued his x-ray/heat vision to remove a growth in his brain, that gave him his powers, thus outsmarting Manchester Black (who cried like a baby, when Supes told hm this lie). Did I mention the fact that Supes beat the other villains who were giving him the run around? I'm going to the library today, so I will look up the name of the graphic for you...

Parasite - I clearly remember reading an issue where sorry ass
Electic-Superman, beat the parasite. I'm not saying that Parasite isn't a formidable foe...but come on...he lost to Electric-Superman. Parasite is supposed to absorb enery, bu he was nearly killed by a being made of all energy.

Blackrock - Didn't know this villain, so I had to actually wikipedia them. First one killed themself, the second one lost to Supes, and the third one also lost, albeit seemingly offering a challenge.

I can't claim an extensive knowledge of Superman, as he is actually one of my least liked super heroes (though I do respect what the character represents, and thus, I still read some of his stories). However, even with my limited knowledge, I have nerfed at least a few of the villains on your list. I will concede mongul to you though.

 

[The Question]

Parasite - I clearly remember reading an issue where sorry ass
Electic-Superman, beat the parasite. I'm not saying that Parasite isn't a formidable foe...but come on...he lost to Electric-Superman. Parasite is supposed to absorb enery, bu he was nearly killed by a being made of all energy.

Superman Blue sucked on pretty much all levels. That includes his fight with Rudy.

 

[Spike_x1]

Maxima - isn't a rogue for Superman any longer...

As well as some of the others on my list. Dead characters still provided a threat while they were alive, so why should they be ignored?

Metallo - captured and incapacitated in Year One, by none other than the Toy Man, who surprise surprise, isn't allergic to kryptonite.

As I wrote in an earlier post "...back when the villains' history and powers were actually developed..." Metallo evolved over the years to gain the ability to control, possess, and incorporate virtually any machine into his body. And if you're referring to the recent "One Year Later" story arc, instead of "Year One," the writers clearly ignored Corben's additional abilities and just stuck with the simple status quo of "a human brain in a kryptonite-powered body." It was just plain bad writing.

Manchester Black - I recently read a graphic novel where Superman took on an entire team of supervillains who were seemingly kicking the crap out of him. Manchester Black used telepathy on Supes, who later turned around and told Manchester that he ued his x-ray/heat vision to remove a growth in his brain, that gave him his powers, thus outsmarting Manchester Black (who cried like a baby, when Supes told hm this lie). Did I mention the fact that Supes beat the other villains who were giving him the run around? I'm going to the library today, so I will look up the name of the graphic for you...

And Black came back in the "Ending Battle" storyline, and proved that he can shield himself from just about everything if he wants. Yes, it was in a projected fantasy in Superman's head, but neither one of them seemed to question the fact that Black could take his punches in the fantasy, so I guess both of them had no problem accepting it was possible.

Parasite - I clearly remember reading an issue where sorry ass
Electic-Superman, beat the parasite. I'm not saying that Parasite isn't a formidable foe...but come on...he lost to Electric-Superman. Parasite is supposed to absorb enery, bu he was nearly killed by a being made of all energy.

Electric Superman was made of energy, yes, but he also needed to absorb it from other sources in order to stay alive, the same way the Parasite does. Electric Superman merely had more powerful draining abilities than Rudy and was able to drain his power instead of the other way around. Strange Visitor pulled the same trick a while later.

The fact remains that the Parasite would still defeat normal Superman in a straight-up fight. It's what makes their battles interesting; Superman either has to outsmart the Parasite, or the writer has to come up with a reason for the villain to run away.

Blackrock - Didn't know this villain, so I had to actually wikipedia them. First one killed themself, the second one lost to Supes, and the third one also lost, albeit seemingly offering a challenge.

Wikipedia needs better sources. Silverstone didn't kill himself; he went crazy and was killed by the next stone-wielder, Sam Benjamin. Sam did not do anything that would indicate he was trying to take over the city, either, as Wikipedia claims. All he set out to do was kill Superman.

And Superman's heat vision put a stop to that, but again, I must call out bad writing. Blackrock just stood there while Superman blasted away. Sam didn't even attempt to dodge the heat vision, or fire some of his own blasts in return to fight Superman off.

Of course you'll eventually lose if you just sit there and take the punishment instead of fighting back.

However, Blackrock did prove that he could easily shrug off Superman's punches in the very same issue.

 

[Arach Knight]

1)Yes I meant One Year Later and not Year One. I've been reading a lot of Batman lately, so the term Year One is stuck in my mind. My fault.

2)Didn't Metallo get a new body overhaul made of more powerful material? It doesn't seem like he would be completely underwhelming if that much is true. All I know is, he got served by Toyman. This of course has no bearing on the past, but we are speaking in general, about the ease of which Superman could dispose of most of his rogues, if he went all out (which none of your prior lists ever indicated that Superman went out all...only that he merely fought formidable people).

3)I never read that story regarding Manchester Black. Just Our Worlds At War and the other one where Supes duped him into thinking he mind screwed him. So i'd have to concede your point to you, but at the same time ask that you concede for the fact that you said the battle was mental, and Black did not actually engage in a physical combat in the real world. At lesat from what you are telling me. Taking punches in the astral plane, is not the same as duking it out in real life. In the Astral Plane, Cyclops was nearly killed by Mastermind, but in reality, we all know Cyclops would make Mastermind eat a pile of crap. I think the same would apply to Supes and Manchester Black

4)I concede that Wikipedia can at times not provide the broadest scope of information, but I feel that many comic fans, especially ones on this site, are often too distrusting of Wikipedia, which is expected, but not necessarily deserved. Wikipedia is pretty good about policing their articles (to a degree) and the contributions are made from people no different than ourselves (in most cases). It has proven to be a fairly useful resource. Especially for those who are without prior knowledge in some subjects. Such as games or comics. But I am aware that they have at times, misinterpreted or misrepresented certain information in regards to comic continuity.

5) I can concede that Parasite is quite the irksome villain for Superman, and as far as Superman's earthbound foes are concerned, Rudy does offer up one of the best, if not the best battles.

6)I appreciate the maturity at which you approach this. You do not neglect aspects of this debate in which some of your chosen combatants have met defeat by Superman. You have done quite a job of staying on topic, and not just turning this into an argument or a flame fest. I can respect that, which is why I am willing to concede to some of your points.

 

[Spike_x1]

1)Yes I meant One Year Later and not Year One. I've been reading a lot of Batman lately, so the term Year One is stuck in my mind. My fault.

2)Didn't Metallo get a new body overhaul made of more powerful material? It doesn't seem like he would be completely underwhelming if that much is true. All I know is, he got served by Toyman. This of course has no bearing on the past, but we are speaking in general, about the ease of which Superman could dispose of most of his rogues, if he went all out (which none of your prior lists ever indicated that Superman went out all...only that he merely fought formidable people).

Yes, Metallo did receive a new body with human organs in a metal frame powered by kryptonite, but the very fact that he was willing to undergo the procedure to get the body is very uncharacteristic of Corben's character, who revelled in his old bodies and thoroughly enjoyed using them (unlike the cartoon's version).

But yes, Superman would win against the modern version of Metallo very easily if he decided to go all out. All he'd have to do is stand out of range of the kryptonite and then roast John's organs.

3)I never read that story regarding Manchester Black. Just Our Worlds At War and the other one where Supes duped him into thinking he mind screwed him. So i'd have to concede your point to you, but at the same time ask that you concede for the fact that you said the battle was mental, and Black did not actually engage in a physical combat in the real world. At lesat from what you are telling me. Taking punches in the astral plane, is not the same as duking it out in real life. In the Astral Plane, Cyclops was nearly killed by Mastermind, but in reality, we all know Cyclops would make Mastermind eat a pile of crap. I think the same would apply to Supes and Manchester Black

They weren't exactly fighting on the astral plane - it was more like an extended fantasy in Superman's mind. The reader was actually supposed to be tricked into thinking that it was real until the last few pages of it.

But it wasn't real for the characters, so nothing from that fight can really have any weight. The only thing that I wanted to bring up was that neither of the characters were surprised that Black could physically hold his own in the fantasy, before the reader even knew that it was a fantasy.

4)I concede that Wikipedia can at times not provide the broadest scope of information, but I feel that many comic fans, especially ones on this site, are often too distrusting of Wikipedia, which is expected, but not necessarily deserved. Wikipedia is pretty good about policing their articles (to a degree) and the contributions are made from people no different than ourselves (in most cases). It has proven to be a fairly useful resource. Especially for those who are without prior knowledge in some subjects. Such as games or comics. But I am aware that they have at times, misinterpreted or misrepresented certain information in regards to comic continuity.

Yes, Wiki can be a very good and convenient source of information, but occasionally you find an article that must've slipped under the radar. Nobody's fault.

Blackrock was originally created in the 70's to be an equal to Superman, but the modern version has been handled badly and very confusingly (and that's putting it mildly), so his/her power level is all over the place currently, thanks to the writing team.

I really don't like the way Supes' villains have been handled in recent years, in case you didn't notice.

5) I can concede that Parasite is quite the irksome villain for Superman, and as far as Superman's earthbound foes are concerned, Rudy does offer up one of the best, if not the best battles.

6)I appreciate the maturity at which you approach this. You do not neglect aspects of this debate in which some of your chosen combatants have met defeat by Superman. You have done quite a job of staying on topic, and not just turning this into an argument or a flame fest. I can respect that, which is why I am willing to concede to some of your points.

Thank you. I enjoy debating, but yeah, I can sometimes get carried away. I'm glad to say that, personally, I don't think that was the case here.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

The only problem I have with Superman's powers is the freeze-breath. It's just stupid.

 

[Arach Knight]

what's so bad about arctic breath? Other than the fact that when you say, it sounds utterly silly.

 

[Spike_x1]

Yeah, I always liked the arctic/freeze/super breath. It's a nice counter to his heat vision.

 

[The Question]

I don't know. I've never been big onf freeze breath. Just seems really really random. Plus, he uses it so infrequently that I start to wonder if he still has the power at all.

 

[Spike_x1]

It's not random at all, if you think about it. His lung muscles are powerful enough that he can blow air over objects at such fast speeds to create super cold and strong winds. Depending on how he focuses the air when he exhales that strongly, he can either freeze something on the spot, blow it away, or both.

At least it's more logical than fire shooting from his eyes, of all places.

 

[Spike_x1]

Whenever someone mentions the silliness of arctic breath, I'm always reminded of this scene:

That's /\ what I meant before when I said it was a nice counter to his heat vision. I just think it's neat that Superman has both hot and cold powers at his command.