Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

[Herolee10]

I can see the script now

Superman hands the cat over to the little girl. He turns to the crowd and gives them a smile, a SUPER smile. His shiny white teeth sparkle, stunning the citizens at how white his teeth are. They trust him.

I think there are ways of showing how he's different to other heroes in the way he makes people feel safe, without going ultra cheesy.

I mean, just saying the line 'It's okay, your safe now' in Superman's calming voice, would be magic to me.

lol; well something like the smile that BR gave Parker Posey's character after having saved her from uncontrollable car ordeal was what I was going for.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Nahhhh, that smile was forced. He couldn't stand the woman. What kind of a Superman fake smiles at people? A BAAAAAAAAD SUPERMAN! WITH A BAAAAAAAAD FAKE SMILE!

 

[Rodrigo90]

I've been thinking of how they can probably make Supes more relatable, or at least understandable.

Everybody says
¨Oh, Superman's just a boyscout¨

That can be explained by Clark/Superman wanting to appease everybody, afraid of doing the wrong thing. Since he was a child, Clark was raised by the best parents you can ask for...so it's understandable that he wants to uphold his image of being the good son in his parents eyes, especially after Jonathan's death. It shows why he always does the right thing, and why he's reluctant and afraid of doing something wrong...Not about being a goody two shoes just cause he see's things in black and white, but because he doesn't want to let down his parents, and the world too. He's afraid of becoming anything other than good person in peoples eyes, he wants to appease others and reassure himself at the same time, I think that's a trait we can relate to.

 

[X Knight]

nah......I'd rather Clark/Superman be a nice person and do good because that's the way he was raised + inherent goodness, rather than him trying to up live up to an image or parental expectations.

The latter adds an ulterior motive and thus makes his actions and intentions seem less genuine.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

No one will be calling him a boyscout when they've seen him throwing a few punches, or hanging out bearded and gruff looking in Alaska.

He only gets called a boyscout because the image of Superman people have is this guy who's smiling and waving at the camera, spouting lines that literally sound like boyscout mottos.

It's not his 'goodness' that's the problem, so his motives for being a good person really don't need to be altered.

 

[X Knight]

^ yeah. let other heroes have "motives" and "parental issues" that drive them.

but, please, let's keep that away from Superman as much as possible.

same with the "destiny/prophecy" angle.............don't need that.

Superman becomes a hero out of the goodness of his own heart and the strong values/morals that his parents raised him with.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think it makes sense though. It's only just part of the motivation into why he doesn't do the wrong thing, and is actually fearful of it. Cause in being presented with either no choice in doing the wrong thing, Superman is fearful of failing in his parents eyes, and this fear is carried on to the world. It adds to the psychology and notion of 'good behaviour', and why Superman strongly enforces it.

 

[McLarenMP4]

I think it makes sense though. It's only just part of the motivation into why he doesn't do the wrong thing, and is actually fearful of it. Cause in being presented with either no choice in doing the wrong thing, Superman is fearful of failing in his parents eyes, and this fear is carried on to the world. It adds to the psychology and notion of 'good behaviour', and why Superman strongly enforces it.

The fact that you used the word fearful twice in the same sentence while describing Superman should tell you why it's all wrong.
As a wise Yoda will tell you "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
Superman cannot have fear in his heart it goes against the whole premise of the character IMO.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think Superman can be fearful of doing the wrong thing, which is why he's so grounded in doing what's right. He was taught and instructed by the Kent's to always do the right thing. So it would be understandable that he's so against doing the wrong thing, cause he doesn't want to let them down.

It was just about adding layers to his psychology

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think it makes sense though. It's only just part of the motivation into why he doesn't do the wrong thing, and is actually fearful of it. Cause in being presented with either no choice in doing the wrong thing, Superman is fearful of failing in his parents eyes, and this fear is carried on to the world. It adds to the psychology and notion of 'good behaviour', and why Superman strongly enforces it.

I think Superman can be fearful of doing the wrong thing, which is why he's so grounded in doing what's right. He was taught and instructed by the Kent's to always do the right thing. So it would be understandable that he's so against doing the wrong thing, cause he doesn't want to let them down.

It was just about adding layers to his psychology

I just think your twisting it into something very angsty.

It's fine to say that Superman got his good morals from his parents, and that the way they raised him has a lot to do with why he's so good.

It's weird to say that Superman sticks to good morals because he's afraid of his parents being dissapointed in him.

That sounds more like Dexter than Superman.

 

[Herolee10]

Personally, my interpretation of Superman has always been that it’s never been about him questioning as to whether he should do the right thing but more about him questioning IF he was doing the right thing. I think there are ways to challenge his character in terms of his innate qualities in interesting ways without resorting to Spiderman-like angst or compromising his character to the point where there’d be a universal backlash as a result. The film “Superman vs. The Elite” is a prime example of that for starters. But I do agree that there would probably be a part of him that fears that he may let down his parents and the world, but I don’t think those factors are what drives him as much.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well if it makes Supes sound like a psycho that kills psychos then forget it! Yikes!

 

[Rodrigo90]

Personally, my interpretation of Superman has always been that it’s never been about him questioning as to whether he should do the right thing but more about him questioning IF he was doing the right thing. I think there are ways to challenge his character in terms of his innate qualities in interesting ways without resorting to Spiderman-like angst or compromising his character to the point where there’d be a universal backlash as a result. The film “Superman vs. The Elite” is a prime example of that for starters. But I do agree that there would probably be a part of him that fears that he may let down his parents and the world, but I don’t think those factors are what drives him as much.

Defo on that.

I think we can all relate with not wanting to let people down, especially our family. That's what I was referring with Superman. Not a fear that drives him, but an understanding in how we want to make people proud of us, especially those who raised us with so much love and hope, and being just a tiny fraction of our decision to do the right thing. That's all

 

[X Knight]

I don't think it's a matter of Superman NOT having fear in his heart. After all, we all feel fear, and I'm sure Clark is no different.

The issue is what are you afraid of and how that dictates your actions.

Saying that Superman does the right thing because he's fearful of doing the wrong thing almost makes it sound like Superman is afraid of "giving in to his dark side." Maybe that's not exactly what you meant, Rodrigo, but that's impression I get from that analogy.

Likewise, doing the right thing because you are afraid that you won't live up to your parent's expectations or the public image, that kind of makes it sound like you're doing something not because you really want to do it but because it's what other people expect of you.

iow.......it ascribes an ulterior motive to your actions.

A better use of fear as a motivator, imo, would be Superman feeling genuinely afraid of an extremely evil and/or powerful foe. Not being afraid to go hide in the FOS or give up being Superman. But being aware of how great a threat the foe is to everyone and thus making Superman even more determined to stop the threat.

Or, Superman being aware of just how powerful he is and afraid that he will hurt his loved ones ( and others ) if he doesn't keep his powers under control. So, that makes him much more reserved/cautious about using his powers and more likely to talk/use diplomacy when handling situations. Only getting angry and letting loose with his powers when the situation calls for it.

IOW.....it would make him mature and responsible about how he uses his powers.

and maybe that's more of what you meant about "fearful of doing the wrong thing", Rodrigo. if so, then I can get behind that.

but being fearful of not living up to parental expectation or public image, I don't really want to associate that with Superman.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Personally, my interpretation of Superman has always been that it’s never been about him questioning as to whether he should do the right thing but more about him questioning IF he was doing the right thing. I think there are ways to challenge his character in terms of his innate qualities in interesting ways without resorting to Spiderman-like angst or compromising his character to the point where there’d be a universal backlash as a result. The film “Superman vs. The Elite” is a prime example of that for starters. But I do agree that there would probably be a part of him that fears that he may let down his parents and the world, but I don’t think those factors are what drives him as much.

This

 

[Rodrigo90]

I don't think it's a matter of Superman NOT having fear in his heart. After all, we all feel fear, and I'm sure Clark is no different.

The issue is what are you afraid of and how that dictates your actions.

Saying that Superman does the right thing because he's fearful of doing the wrong thing almost makes it sound like Superman is afraid of "giving in to his dark side." Maybe that's not exactly what you meant, Rodrigo, but that's impression I get from that analogy.

Likewise, doing the right thing because you are afraid that you won't live up to your parent's expectations or the public image, that kind of makes it sound like you're doing something not because you really want to do it but because it's what other people expect of you.

iow.......it ascribes an ulterior motive to your actions.

A better use of fear as a motivator, imo, would be Superman feeling genuinely afraid of an extremely evil and/or powerful foe. Not being afraid to go hide in the FOS or give up being Superman. But being aware of how great a threat the foe is to everyone and thus making Superman even more determined to stop the threat.

Or, Superman being aware of just how powerful he is and afraid that he will hurt his loved ones ( and others ) if he doesn't keep his powers under control. So, that makes him much more reserved/cautious about using his powers and more likely to talk/use diplomacy when handling situations. Only getting angry and letting loose with his powers when the situation calls for it.

IOW.....it would make him mature and responsible about how he uses his powers.

and maybe that's more of what you meant about "fearful of doing the wrong thing", Rodrigo. if so, then I can get behind that.

but being fearful of not living up to parental expectation or public image, I don't really want to associate that with Superman.

That's definitely better than my explanation of it

I honestly think I used the wrong choice of words before. So I'll clarify it.

What I meant was, because we hear a lot of people saying they can't relate to Superman cause he's a boyscout, I was thinking, 'fine, so how about he can still be the boyscout, but make him relatable to people?'.

What I suggested was, but lost it somewhere was that he's an all round good guy to make his parents proud of him, not look bad in their eyes, cause he was raised with all the love and praise anyone could ask for, he tries extra hard in what he does.
Which I was hoping people would be able to relate to, but it's not a factor that needs to be included for Superman. I was hoping it would be something like an understanding of his motivations, for the ignorant. So back to the drawing board

 

[Herolee10]

If the theme for “Batman Begins” was about “Fear”; the fear that Bruce instills in the hearts of criminals and the corrupt as Batman, along with his own fears and how that led to the creation of Batman to begin with, then I would assume that Goyer and Nolan found a way to capitalize on what Superman’s known for standing for the most: Hope.

The hope for a better tomorrow, the hope that superman instills in the hearts of civilians that there is still some good left in the world ready to fight for the right reasons, and the hope that Clark may have personally that he may find his place in the world.

 

[X Knight]

That's definitely better than my explanation of it

I honestly think I used the wrong choice of words before. So I'll clarify it.

What I meant was, because we hear a lot of people saying they can't relate to Superman cause he's a boyscout, I was thinking, 'fine, so how about he can still be the boyscout, but make him relatable to people?'.

What I suggested was, but lost it somewhere was that he's an all round good guy to make his parents proud of him, not look bad in their eyes, cause he was raised with all the love and praise anyone could ask for, he tries extra hard in what he does.
Which I was hoping people would be able to relate to, but it's not a factor that needs to be included for Superman. I was hoping it would be something like an understanding of his motivations, for the ignorant. So back to the drawing board

ah.....I understand what you were going for better.

I'm all for making Superman more relatable, too.

even the concept of Clark traveling the world and trying to "find himself" (which some of the set pics seem to suggest, with him going to that Alaskan town and working on the oil rig ) can make him relatable.

but, they have to walk a fine line. you can't make Clark all angsty and surly and getting drunk in bars and picking fights. Even if he's trying to find his place in the world, I still want to see Clark being willing to help people out with no hesitation (perhaps using his powers in secret).

 

[X Knight]

If the theme for “Batman Begins” was about “Fear”; the fear that Bruce instills in the hearts of criminals and the corrupt as Batman, along with his own fears and how that led to the creation of Batman to begin with, then I would assume that Goyer and Nolan found a way to capitalize on what Superman’s known for standing for the most: Hope.

The hope for a better tomorrow, the hope that superman instills in the hearts of civilians that there is still some good left in the world ready to fight for the right reasons, and the hope that Clark may have personally that he may find his place in the world.

that's what I want the theme of the movie to be. even the "theme" of the score and the music. you want to walk out of the theater feeling inspired and uplifted.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Does he actually have a drunken fight? lol

 

[X Knight]

Does he actually have a drunken fight? lol

no, I don't think so (can Superman even get drunk?? lol).

but the pics of him in Alaska do show him looking like a bum, so something's going on......

I just don't want him to act like a bar drunk and get into fights......that would be absolutely wrong for the character, imo.

that being said, I do remember maybe a possible leaked scene description of Clark getting into a fight in a bar.......so who knows........

if it's like Clark vs the diner room bully in Superman 2 ( and Clark's not the one drunk ), then I'd be ok with that if he's trying to protect somebody.....

 

[hopefuldreamer]

no, I don't think so (can Superman even get drunk?? lol).

but the pics of him in Alaska do show him looking like a bum, so something's going on......

I just don't want him to act like a bar drunk and get into fights......that would be absolutely wrong for the character, imo.

that being said, I do remember maybe a possible leaked scene description of Clark getting into a fight in a bar.......so who knows........

if it's like Clark vs the diner room bully in Superman 2 ( and Clark's not the one drunk ), then I'd be ok with that if he's trying to protect somebody.....

Yeah I think a scene like that would only serve to show why he's totally different from a bar drunk, not make him out to be one.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I would have loved to have seen a drunk Superman flying about

I agree that MOS should be an uplifting experience.

The most important thing to remember with heroes, and especially Superman, is that they are meant to be inspirations. They are meant to go through hell, all for us, and come out unscathed. They are meant to better themselves from start to finish, and I really hope they nail the ultimate hero, for the ultimate inspiration, for the audience

 

[X Knight]

Yeah I think a scene like that would only serve to show why he's totally different from a bar drunk, not make him out to be one.

^ I hope so.......

but hey, it can't get any worse than him getting Lois pregnant with a b****** child and then ditching everyone for 5+ years.........

can it? can it??

fingers crossed we get a great story and great characters this time around.......

 

[X Knight]

I would have loved to have seen a drunk Superman flying about

I agree that MOS should be an uplifting experience.

The most important thing to remember with heroes, and especially Superman, is that they are meant to be inspirations. They are meant to go through hell, all for us, and come out unscathed. They are meant to better themselves from start to finish, and I really hope they nail the ultimate hero, for the ultimate inspiration, for the audience

^ yep