Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

[Superwoman Prime]

Weren't those in the future?

I mean, I remember stuff like that in Legion based stories... but not in present day ones.

You got any specifics on where I can find these stories you're talking about?

Yes, mam, I shall look in my Showcase Presents: Superman volumes.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Thanks. Like I said, i'm happy to be proved wrong here

Though I still think it makes zero sense if it's true, and I very much doubt that's the kind of thing we'll be seeing in MOS.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Here's one right off the bat.

 

[The Sage]

Meh, that view is too simplistic for my tastes.

Btw, Sage,

...got me on my knees. I`m begging darling please. Darling won't you ease my worried mind?

Ah, the Layla song.

There's a longer write up that Mark Waid wrote up in Birthright that summarizes my thoughts. I'll have to hunt it down.

But he is pretending that he is completely alien to this world.

He is pretending he didn't grow up on a farm in Kansas. He is pretending he does not have earth parents, and went to school and has close friends and a job.

He is STILL pretending as Superman, to be someone that is not completely true.

Neither are real. Clark Kent and Superman are two parts of one real person.

How is he not being his true self?

I mentioned that as Superman, he's using his genuine personality, not any faked mannerisms that he uses as the Mild-Mannered Clark Kent persona.

He's an alien who walks among humans pretending to be one. He can only truly be an alien and be genuine in personality when he's Superman.

This.

How many times have we had this discussion over the years? Feels like a circle. No less fun though.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Here's one right off the bat.

Sorry, not seeing there where it says he came to earth as a baby and was raised here...

 

[The Sage]

I have never seen this to be a consistent staple of the mythology. I'm not even sure I've ever seen this.

I do recall in John Byrne's version that Superman said he was raised as a baby and grew up in Smallville along with Clark Kent.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How is he not being his true self?

I mentioned that as Superman, he's using his genuine personality, not any faked mannerisms that he uses as the Mild-Mannered Clark Kent persona.

He's an alien who walks among humans pretending to be one. He can only truly be an alien and be genuine in personality when he's Superman.

Exactly as I said. He is pretending he didn't grow up on a farm in Kansas. He is pretending he does not have earth parents, and went to school and has close friends and a job.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I do recall in John Byrne's version that Superman said he was raised as a baby and grew up in Smallville along with Clark Kent.

Well, then that's incredibly stupid.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Sorry, not seeing there where it says he came to earth as a baby and was raised here...

You have forced my hand, HopefulDreamer!

 

[hopefuldreamer]

You have forced my hand, HopefulDreamer!

Okay, you win

I still think it's silly to have that information out in the open when you're keeping up a secret identity for the sake of your loved ones.

Not quite as stupid as saying that the Kents raised you though... cause yeah, that's not gonna make every criminal in the world go after them...

 

[The Sage]

Excerpt from Mark Waid's Birthright commentary:

CLARK KENT
"...who, disguised as Clark Kent..."

Don't look at me. I didn't make it up. Siegel and Shuster did. Superman's the real guy. Clark's the disguise, and that's one of the masterstrokes that made Superman unique and brilliant for so long. One crucial key to Superman is that when he's wearing the suit, when he's flying around, he's not playing a hero. This is who he is and who the Kents raised him to be - an angelic, unselfish champion who uses his gifts for the betterment of mankind. Wearing the suit simply means that he can act openly without fear of alienating others. "Metropolis Clark," on the other hand, is a fabrication that serves a critical purpose - no matter how old, how mature Superman gets, he'll never lose that basic human need to be accepted by his peers. Moreover, one of the fundamentals of the world's leading religions all throughout history is that despite our individuality, there exists on some level a connection between all the things in the universe and one cannot exist meaningfully while denying that connection. Superman's a smart and worldly man. He knows this.

Clark allows Superman to immerse himself in humanity and thus never lose sight of his calling. The Clark disguise includes, at Ma Kent's insistence, glasses that help take attention away from Superman's most distinctive facial characteristics: blue eyes that would put Paul Newman's to shame, that are almost otherworldly in the compassion and warmth they radiate.

The drawback of being Clark, of course, is that, it's during those times Kal-El has to be most careful. Above all, he wants to go unnoticed, to be one of those unremarkable, almost faceless guys in the office who no one thinks ill of but who you can never remember for sure whether or not he was at the office Christmas party. He has to be on guard 24/7 against making any sort of physical slip-up. He can't play pickup basketball. He can't volunteer to help you move next weekend. Most of all, he can never, ever be confrontational, and that's the behavior that easily gets misunderstood by the insensitive. Clark's not really a wimp; he's just mild-mannered, slightly aloof, and very TIGHTLY wrapped. When he screws up, people can die. Clark brings Kal-El so close to being human, so tantalizingly close...but never are we more "human" than when we make mistakes, and mistakes are the things Clark can least afford.

There's also another sad irony to Clark, and it's one that reached right to the heart of every adolescent out there: in order to have any sort of genuine relationship with people, Superman has to be someone he's not.

As much as I love Christopher Reeve's Clark, he was a cartoon and is too over the top for the purposes of this series. Clark doesn't have to an overblown drama queen, but neither can he be so super-successful he has the world in his pocket. We must not forget why he was created in the first place - to be a touchstone. To be the half of Superman which readers can actually relate to because we all (especially comic fans) want to believe that even though we may be put upon and bullied by the world from time to time, we know what those who pick on us or look down on us don't - that if they could see behind our glasses, they'd see a Superman.

Clark's the sob sister of the Daily Planet, if not all of Metropolis. Despite his attempts, to keep a low profile, compassion radiates from him, and people pick up on that almost unconsciously. Friends and total strangers alike constantly confess their plights and problems to poor Clark. They don't want advice. They just want someone to listen, and no one listens better than him. This aspect of his character naturally opens up the occasional avenue to the smaller human-interest story, which can be investigated by Clark the reporter.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

This is the one. Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #24...

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman's_Pal,_Jimmy_Olsen_Vol_1_24

Jimmy Olsen has been selected to be the official guide of the Superman Hall of Trophies, a tourist destination that is all about his best pal, the Man of Steel. While giving visitors a tour of the building, Superman decides to surprise Jimmy with a personal appearance. Going to a room that features a statue of Superman sitting on a thrown (in commemoration of a time when Superman saved the nation of Domaninia) Superman tosses the dummy out a window and takes it's place. This plan backfires when Jimmy puts a crown given to the Hall by the Domaninian royalty. This crown has a bit of Kryptonite in its jewel settings which immobilizes the Man of Steel.
As Jimmy continues the tour unaware that he trapped his best friend, Superman tries to call Jimmy's attention by burning an SOS into a Superman shirt with his fleeting powers. Jimmy realizes what happens, but before he can save Superman a bunch of crooks burst in trying to rob the place. Jimmy uses devices that replicate Superman's super powers to first destroy their guns, and then blow the Kryptonite crown off Superman's head. Superman makes short work of the crooks, and Superman resumes the tour with Jimmy as a surprise guest.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Okay, you win

I still think it's silly to have that information out in the open when you're keeping up a secret identity for the sake of your loved ones.

Not quite as stupid as saying that the Kents raised you though... cause yeah, that's not gonna make every criminal in the world go after them...

It was fun for the Silver Age, but in a more modern/grounded version, yeah, Kal would keep that all as private as possible.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because one of his mothers made it for him, they are his clothes. They aren't a disguise, they were made specifically for the man who would become Superman. Not the man who would act like a dork.

Using this logic, then why not consider what the people he considers to be his mother and father call him? How about his wife? It isn't Superman.

Lois didn't fall involve with Superman. She fell in love with Clark Kent. He asked her to marry her with the Kent family ring. She married Clark Kent.

Yes. If he wore a mask as Superman.

He doesn't. But a film without Lois Lane, Jimmy, Perry, the Kents would be a bit more dull, if it were on Earth, at least. He needs to be able to disguise himself as the Metropolis Clark Kent to protect people, for example, his parents, or have mundane interactions. Here's a real world example that I hate that I know:

Justin Timberlake said on a chat show that if he wants to go out he wears a hat, sunglasses and a scarf at night, books a ticket under a fake name and goes to the movies.

He doesn't need to do that to go to watch a film. But he does it to save himself from hassle. It doesn't mean that other person is real. It's an act just like Superman pretends to be a dork at the Daily Planet.

If he didn't give himself the name Superman, why would you identify him as Superman pretending to be anything?

Also it is the other way around. Superman exist as to not interfere with his life as Clark Kent.

He is, but he's not acting like Clark Kent there though is he? He's not wearing the glasses, he's not wearing the ill fitting clothes, he's not acting differently. He's acting like himself.

Clark at home=Superman

And he was Clark Kent acting like that long before. You act as if wearing the glasses and ill fitting clothing was always what Clark did. It isn't true. Before Superman was even an idea, he was Clark Kent, boy running around his parent's front yard.

They even seem to going that avenue in this movie.

This is an origin story. You said he goes around saying he is Superman. He doesn't usually come up with that name. It can usually be attributed to Lois Lane or the Kents.

Why is it relevant where the name comes from if he still uses it? Someone can give you the name Dog Poop, doesn't mean you have to use it. He could have easily called himself Kal-El of Krypton.

He's not concealing his identity. That's the point. It's Superman that conceals he is the buffoon working in the Daily Planet. That's why it is Superman that rips off the Clark Kent disguise and not the other way around.

Actually it was Clark Kent who put on the suit to cover up his identity. A disguise to protect his loved ones. If he went around in his blue suit calling himself Clark Kent, that would put his family in danger while blowing up his phones with request.

That is because Superman was not born Clark Kent. He was born Kal-El. Clark stopped existing and became a façade when he chose to become Superman. Clark Kent became a work of fiction, a façade to disguise him from his work as Superman. If it weren't a façade he wouldn't need to mask his face, body and mannerisms.

He was born Kal-El, raised as Clark and works as Superman.

When did Tony say he needs to disguise his identity? He tells his friends pretty much immediately, then the rest of the world. He was never worried about creating an alter ego.

He reveals his identity to those who need to know at the time. You notice Rhodes wouldn't tell anyone who was in the suit or why they shouldn't blow it up? Tony even considers why he would hide his identity and then just says F' it.

Nothing in the films would suggest Darth Vader is disguising his identity.

And this is when I know you are just playing. If this was the case, wouldn't Luke notice that Darth Vader was named Anakin Skywalker, the name of his father? Why would everyone who encounters Vader call him Darth or Vader, if his true name was common knowledge? When Obi-Wan tells Luke the story, it is Darth Vader who killed his father Anakin Skywalker. So Anakin Skywalker killed Anakin Skywalker?

They can. Batman has numerous.

Superman doesn't.

I really find it funny that you say others gave him that name and yet you act like that is how he identifies himself.

I am saying that Superman always highlights his own flaws. He never leads people to believe he is perfect.

Of course not. Showing humility is part of his creed. Of course, this goes out the window when he gets annoyed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ah, the Layla song.

There's a longer write up that Mark Waid wrote up in Birthright that summarizes my thoughts. I'll have to hunt it down.



How is he not being his true self?

I mentioned that as Superman, he's using his genuine personality, not any faked mannerisms that he uses as the Mild-Mannered Clark Kent persona.

He's an alien who walks among humans pretending to be one. He can only truly be an alien and be genuine in personality when he's Superman.



How many times have we had this discussion over the years? Feels like a circle. No less fun though.

Because he is hiding who he is. You can be using your genuine personality and still be hiding.

Clark Kent, Kal-El, or Superman is only an alien in terms of his physiology. Yes, he is faster, call fly and think at a rate the greatest of geniuses couldn't comprehend. But he isn't pretending to be a human. He is one. He grew up as a human and has the morals associated with humanity. It is why he can talk to us on the same level. Being nearly indestructible doesn't change who he is at heart. This isn't a J'onn situation.

In the commentary from Birthright you posted, it even contradicts itself. Clark Kent is the disguise, yet must be distinguished from another Clark Kent by being named Metropolis Clark, while also calling Clark one half of Superman.

 

[The Batman]

Excerpt from Mark Waid's Birthright commentary:

CLARK KENT
"...who, disguised as Clark Kent..."

Don't look at me. I didn't make it up. Siegel and Shuster did. Superman's the real guy. Clark's the disguise, and that's one of the masterstrokes that made Superman unique and brilliant for so long. One crucial key to Superman is that when he's wearing the suit, when he's flying around, he's not playing a hero. This is who he is and who the Kents raised him to be - an angelic, unselfish champion who uses his gifts for the betterment of mankind. Wearing the suit simply means that he can act openly without fear of alienating others. "Metropolis Clark," on the other hand, is a fabrication that serves a critical purpose - no matter how old, how mature Superman gets, he'll never lose that basic human need to be accepted by his peers. Moreover, one of the fundamentals of the world's leading religions all throughout history is that despite our individuality, there exists on some level a connection between all the things in the universe and one cannot exist meaningfully while denying that connection. Superman's a smart and worldly man. He knows this.

Clark allows Superman to immerse himself in humanity and thus never lose sight of his calling. The Clark disguise includes, at Ma Kent's insistence, glasses that help take attention away from Superman's most distinctive facial characteristics: blue eyes that would put Paul Newman's to shame, that are almost otherworldly in the compassion and warmth they radiate.

The drawback of being Clark, of course, is that, it's during those times Kal-El has to be most careful. Above all, he wants to go unnoticed, to be one of those unremarkable, almost faceless guys in the office who no one thinks ill of but who you can never remember for sure whether or not he was at the office Christmas party. He has to be on guard 24/7 against making any sort of physical slip-up. He can't play pickup basketball. He can't volunteer to help you move next weekend. Most of all, he can never, ever be confrontational, and that's the behavior that easily gets misunderstood by the insensitive. Clark's not really a wimp; he's just mild-mannered, slightly aloof, and very TIGHTLY wrapped. When he screws up, people can die. Clark brings Kal-El so close to being human, so tantalizingly close...but never are we more "human" than when we make mistakes, and mistakes are the things Clark can least afford.

There's also another sad irony to Clark, and it's one that reached right to the heart of every adolescent out there: in order to have any sort of genuine relationship with people, Superman has to be someone he's not.

As much as I love Christopher Reeve's Clark, he was a cartoon and is too over the top for the purposes of this series. Clark doesn't have to an overblown drama queen, but neither can he be so super-successful he has the world in his pocket. We must not forget why he was created in the first place - to be a touchstone. To be the half of Superman which readers can actually relate to because we all (especially comic fans) want to believe that even though we may be put upon and bullied by the world from time to time, we know what those who pick on us or look down on us don't - that if they could see behind our glasses, they'd see a Superman.

Clark's the sob sister of the Daily Planet, if not all of Metropolis. Despite his attempts, to keep a low profile, compassion radiates from him, and people pick up on that almost unconsciously. Friends and total strangers alike constantly confess their plights and problems to poor Clark. They don't want advice. They just want someone to listen, and no one listens better than him. This aspect of his character naturally opens up the occasional avenue to the smaller human-interest story, which can be investigated by Clark the reporter.

Mark Waid gets Superman. He's one of the few modern american writers that does.

Its a shame he's on the outs with DC and isnt writing a Superman book right now.

 

[The Sage]

Because he is hiding who he is. You can be using your genuine personality and still be hiding.

Clark Kent, Kal-El, or Superman is only an alien in terms of his physiology. Yes, he is faster, call fly and think at a rate the greatest of geniuses couldn't comprehend. But he isn't pretending to be a human. He is one. He grew up as a human and has the morals associated with humanity. It is why he can talk to us on the same level. Being nearly indestructible doesn't change who he is at heart. This isn't a J'onn situation.

In the commentary from Birthright you posted, it even contradicts itself. Clark Kent is the disguise, yet must be distinguished from another Clark Kent by being named Metropolis Clark, while also calling Clark one half of Superman.

He is pretending to be human. While he walks as a human and was raised by humans, he'll always have that outsider perspective that lets him see the world in a different way that humanity can't. Being alien is not just about his physiology.

For example, and I don't know if anyone else shares this view, but I think Superman appreciates the Earth, and can see its beauty in a way that humanity can't. Because he sees how precious the Earth is and how great humanity can be, he chooses to become Earth's protector, as well as hoping to inspire people by example.

Metropolis Clark is the Clark Kent disguise being referred to.

Read that section again, it says the half of Superman people can relate to, the one that deep down beyond our mild-mannered appearance, there's really a Superman underneath.

 

[UaalaDan]

That quote from Mark Waid makes no sense. He tells that Clark was created to be relatable to the readers and the Clark he creates avoids being in public and avoids any kind of personal life. LOL How can you learn from humanity if you're distancing yourself from them?

That's not relatable at all to me and especially not to readers in the 21st century, according to sales. It's only relatable to readers who love pre-crisis and Superman fans who are too tied in the past.

I've yet to see Clark done right in the comics. I don't want a jock like Byrne's but I also don't want the anti-social guy like Waid's or the bafoon cartoon version portrayed by Chris Reeve.

How about a middle term? Someone like the Clark Kent in Secret Identity would be ideal. A guy who is ordinary, falls in love, does simple things, writes articles with passion.

Superman is his work, his talent to give to the world and change it.

The thing is...when Clark decided to be Superman, a symbol, he needed to split himself. So 2 identities were born. Superman, where he can use his powers freely to help others and, Clark, so that he could still continue to try to live a life as a normal human being and know more about humanity and relate to them. Something he wouldn't be able to do as the celebrity Superman.

I think its pretty ridiculous to think that all Superman needs to learn from humanity happened in his childhood years. No! This learning process, like with our lives, is ongoing. That's why he still needs to be Clark Kent so this Clark Kent can't be fake.

Clark is Superman is Clark. At the same time. He is both and both are real. The metaphor you guys are talking about, the "average joe that inside is a Superman", still exists. But it is in a more psychological level than literal. Because what makes him Superman is his love for being human, learn from them and to do what is right with his talents. That an alien who has everything and more but still wants to live like a normal human being is really the true love letter to humanity. Not an alien who masquerades as a human.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He is pretending to be human. While he walks as a human and was raised by humans, he'll always have that outsider perspective that lets him see the world in a different way that humanity can't. Being alien is not just about his physiology.

His outsider perspective comes from his abilities though. He can fly above Earth and look down and see things others couldn't. He can hear millions of conversations at once.

But he isn't a J'onn or Kara. He wasn't raised in an environment where living on Earth or amongst humans is anything but normal. If Clark lost his powers tomorrow, he would be just as happy living his life amongst humanity.

For example, and I don't know if anyone else shares this view, but I think Superman appreciates the Earth, and can see its beauty in a way that humanity can't. Because he sees how precious the Earth is and how great humanity can be, he chooses to become Earth's protector, as well as hoping to inspire people by example.

While I agree he can appreciate Earth on another level, I think it is irrelevant, because Earth is somewhat inconsequential to his goal.

Much like Batman, Superman is looking at the people, not simply Earth. He protects Earth because it is where humanity resides. Like Batman protects the people of Gotham, not simply Gotham itself, Superman does so on a bigger level.

Metropolis Clark is the Clark Kent disguise being referred to.

They why distinguish by naming this disguise two different things?

Read that section again, it says the half of Superman people can relate to, the one that deep down beyond our mild-mannered appearance, there's really a Superman underneath.

It says he is half of Superman. I don't understand what I am missing. If he is the part of Superman that exist in all of us, is he not basically who Superman is without the powers?

 

[UaalaDan]

Totally, Darth. Mark Waid contradicts himself a lot in that quote. Why would Clark deny to help people move? Doesn't that contradict what Superman is? The Superman I know and care would try to do both. He would save the world and then he would come back later and still do simple things like that as Clark.

Hell no to anti-social Clark Kent.

 

[flickchick85]

Just had to pipe in and say I love Mark Waid and his take on the character. BUT, I still believe Kal-El's hiding aspects of himself in both personas.

Superman is his public face, and whenever someone's wearing their public face, they're always on guard because they know all eyes are on them. Whenever someone knows they are in the spotlight, there's a certain level of self-consciousness that inevitably comes with that kind of attention. He could never truly relax as Superman, because he knows his every move is being watched and analyzed at all times.

And of course, Metropolis Clark has to hide his more Super attributes. This doesn't mean acting like a buffoon or a caricature like Reeve, it just means hiding his powers and that natural self-confidence that he's allowed to display as Superman, while maintaining that noble humility and modesty that he was raised with. BUT, he can relax, joke around, have a beer without scrutiny as Clark, as long as he keeps that Superman confidence in check. And like Waid says, his natural compassion still comes through with Metropolis Clark, and he still has an affinity for the human interest side of his investigations/stories, which actually makes him a pretty damn good reporter. That's the kind of guy Lois could eventually fall in love with, once she gets over the just-out-of-reach hero worship she has going on with Superman.

That's how I see it, anyway.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just had to pipe in and say I love Mark Waid and his take on the character. BUT, I still believe Kal-El's hiding aspects of himself in both personas.

Superman is his public face, and whenever someone's wearing their public face, they're always on guard because they know all eyes are on them. Whenever someone knows they are in the spotlight, there's a certain level of self-consciousness that inevitably comes with that kind of attention. He could never truly relax as Superman, because he knows his every move is being watched and analyzed at all times.

And of course, Metropolis Clark has to hide his more Super attributes. This doesn't mean acting like a buffoon or a caricature like Reeve, it just means hiding his powers and that natural self-confidence that he's allowed to display as Superman, while maintaining that noble humility and modesty that he was raised with. BUT, he can relax, joke around, have a beer without scrutiny as Clark, as long as he keeps that Superman confidence in check. And like Waid says, his natural compassion still comes through with Metropolis Clark, and he still has an affinity for the human interest side of his investigations/stories, which actually makes him a pretty damn good reporter. That's the kind of guy Lois could eventually fall in love with, once she gets over the just-out-of-reach hero worship she has going on with Superman.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Completely yes to this. Just like any public figure, he wants to show the best of yourself. Every moment in public is scrutinized.

The JLU epsiode "Clash" touches on this. Superman's reaction to Luthor and battle with Captain Marvel not only puts him in a terrible light him but the league as well.

 

[true316]

Where? I don't see it...


But it is. Unless the whole world knows the truth about Superman, part of that persona is a lie. All his interations with people as Superman are as they are because they believe him to be something he is not.



I'm not sure I understand this sentance



I like that line. It's a much nicer way of putting it

I do understand what you're saying, and I suspect that's the kind of thing we'll be seeing in MOS.

It's weirdly also what they tried to do with Smallville towards the end.

You'd think i'd hate that speech. But I don't. I think the nature of Clark Kent/Superman is one of the things the got right a lot of the time.

It's not that I think Superman should be some fake thing Clark does. Or that he should be a really dorky, nervous guy who just pretends to be all brave and heroic.

It's just that I'd prefer it if people don't think that the guy who put on the suit is some kryptonian saviour all distant from humanity who watches over us from afar...

... he's the guy who was raised on a farm by the kents, who has friends and loved ones and is influenced by his human upbringing.

Like that speech says, the name 'Clark Kent' is just that. It's just a name, and it's a name that he can sacrifice in order to use it for a cover. He gives up those words defining his identity, because he needs a secret identity.

But it doesn't make him any less 'that person' that he was 5 minutes ago.

I think we're pretty much on the same page TBH.

Thanks for making sense of some of my gibberish. I was in a hurry to go to someone's house when I typed that so a couple of those sentences needed translation. I take it as a friendly reminder that proofreading is my friend.

I understand what you say when you mention that some part of the Superman persona is a lie in the sense that he doesn't reveal all the information about his life. He isn't fully transparent. In all honesty, that's deception I can like with. This deception serves a specific purpose: to protect his loved ones. I'm not comfortable with any deception from Superman, but I can live with that.

I wouldn't be able to tolerate a version of Clark Kent that knows he is imperfect, but decides to create this false image of a perfect hero in a misguided attempt to inspire others. There's several problems with this idea. One, unless a person believes you have to be perfect to inspire good in others, the whole perfect facade would be completely unneccessary. You could be imperfect and still get the desired result. Two, if an imperfect person tried to pretend to be perfect at some point they'll get exposed. No imperfect person would ever be able to live up to a perfect image indefinitely. At some point people would see flaws and then what would happen to inspirational value that he hoped to have?

Superman as I imagine him would be the first person to tell everyone: "I'm not perfect."

I have to disagree when you say all Superman's interactions with people are what they are because they believe him to be something he is not. Let me put it to you this way. When you meet someone new is it necessary to know who their parents are, what the name of their hometown is, etc., to understand who they are? Sure all those bits of information could help to understand someone better, but are they necessary? I look at how they treat me, how they treat others, how they live, and that is usually enough.

If people see the way Superman lives and they come away believing he's the world's greatest hero... they know exactly who he is.

I have really enjoyed this conversation. And you're right. The more I've read your posts, the more I've come to believe we are on the same page in terms of how we want Superman portrayed. Not as a fake thing that Clark does, not as a distant Kryptonian savior, but as a man that despite coming from another planet, actually represents humanity at its best.

 

[Zionite1]

I much prefer the Superman Earth one potrayal of Metropolis Clark.He isnt potrayed as a bumbling,reeve caricature but rather as a true modern day nerd.In Earth one hes the kind of nerd that quotes Starwars,the kind youu see on Big Bang theory.But yet you can still see his desire for Justice.

 

[UaalaDan]

Just had to pipe in and say I love Mark Waid and his take on the character. BUT, I still believe Kal-El's hiding aspects of himself in both personas.

Superman is his public face, and whenever someone's wearing their public face, they're always on guard because they know all eyes are on them. Whenever someone knows they are in the spotlight, there's a certain level of self-consciousness that inevitably comes with that kind of attention. He could never truly relax as Superman, because he knows his every move is being watched and analyzed at all times.

And of course, Metropolis Clark has to hide his more Super attributes. This doesn't mean acting like a buffoon or a caricature like Reeve, it just means hiding his powers and that natural self-confidence that he's allowed to display as Superman, while maintaining that noble humility and modesty that he was raised with. BUT, he can relax, joke around, have a beer without scrutiny as Clark, as long as he keeps that Superman confidence in check. And like Waid says, his natural compassion still comes through with Metropolis Clark, and he still has an affinity for the human interest side of his investigations/stories, which actually makes him a pretty damn good reporter. That's the kind of guy Lois could eventually fall in love with, once she gets over the just-out-of-reach hero worship she has going on with Superman.

That's how I see it, anyway.

And yet Mark Waid said Clark needs to be anti-social, as a far away from people as possible in order to not attract attention. Can't u see how contradictory that is?

BTW, big yes to your views. That just isn't how Waid views the character apparently.