"Survival of the Fittest" Discussion Thread

The fight with The Enforcers is what made this episode for me.

Everything else was just the icing on the cake. :word:
 
Yeah, although I didn't appreciate ox breaking spidey webbing. Other than that, the combat was great, spidey throwing punches was a welcome relief and the web-slinging was perfect. The style of swinging was a jovial, intricate acrobatic masterpiece which spidey executed in an almost trinial-like manner. Great stuff. The dialogue was great and I loved the little touches that harkened back to the lee/ditko/romita era. I knew that was the gimmick of this show but I underestimated just how respectful to the original source material they were going with this. This show is good for what it is and more and I see it lasting a long time. The potential is more than there as evidenced in this 1st episode.
 
The fight with The Enforcers is what made this episode for me.

Everything else was just the icing on the cake. :word:
I love that fight with The Enforcers. It was so awesome to finally see them in a Spidey animated series and see them in a badass fight. :up:
 
Yeah, although I didn't appreciate ox breaking spidey webbing. Other than that, the combat was great, spidey throwing punches was a welcome relief and the web-slinging was perfect. The style of swinging was a jovial, intricate acrobatic masterpiece which spidey executed in an almost trinial-like manner. Great stuff. The dialogue was great and I loved the little touches that harkened back to the lee/ditko/romita era. I knew that was the gimmick of this show but I underestimated just how respectful to the original source material they were going with this. This show is good for what it is and more and I see it lasting a long time. The potential is more than there as evidenced in this 1st episode.

Agreed. When Spidey was throwing punches and Dan was blocking them, my jaw hit the ground. Loved it. :applaud
 
Agreed. When Spidey was throwing punches and Dan was blocking them, my jaw hit the ground. Loved it. :applaud

It really was a great fight! I loved how spidey had to fight the enforcers, vulture and keep Norman safe. It was action packed but not once did it feel over saturated. Also, Peter's character is spot on. He has that ballsy and gutsy attitude all the while still coming off as a dork at times, vintage Stan Lee characterization.
 
It really was a great fight! I loved how spidey had to fight the enforcers, vulture and keep Norman safe. It was action packed but not once did it feel over saturated. Also, Peter's character is spot on. He has that ballsy and gutsy attitude all the while still coming off as a dork at times, vintage Stan Lee characterization.
Vulture was intent on killing Norman.LOL
 
What is the best quote you like?
 
It has been about 5 years since the last time Spider-Man graced the small screen. Of course, that was on MTV, a network that all but gutted the show they had acquired and despite good ratings it was gone in a flash. Naturally in that time the movie franchise spawned two blockbuster sequels and the comics have had him join the Avengers, gain various wonky new powers and dig out someone's eyes, fight both for and against fascism in CIVIL WAR, and finally save Aunt May by getting Mephisto to annul his marriage. Suffice it to say, the comics have been a wasteland for a while. Some say BND is actually good, but to enjoy that in any way is to have to admit that OMD was worth it, and that is something I don't think I can ever do.

I was counting on this show to provide my "Spidey fix". He is my favorite superhero deep down, and the fella who got me into comics in the first place. Must've been those SPIDER-FRIENDS reruns that aired alongside SMURFS when I was a wee lad.

Naturally this show has had a lot of debate about it and a lot of sneak peeks and interviews with Greg Wiesman, Victor Cook, and others. The biggest stickling points seemed to be the character model designs by "Cheeks" Galloway and the fact that the Kingpin was "off limits" because he is considered part of the dead-in-the-water DAREDEVIL media franchise. But once the previews started coming, everyone seemed to agree this has potential. Greg always seemed to say the right things in interviews, and March 8th was noted on my calender, and not just because it was the day before my birthday. It meant missing TMNT, but damn it, it was Spidey. Even better, Kid's WB was kicking things off with TWO episodes. Of course, after they show 4-5 episodes we'll be in reruns for 2 months, but something is something.

My first impression of the pilot was; damn, this is the most non-decompressed pilot for a cartoon I'd seen in ages. A dozen or so characters were showing up within 22 minutes. From start to finish it was also a blast to watch.

The theme soing is quite catchy. It took me a season to get used to the TMNT one and THE BATMAN's new themesong by Season 3 I never quite liked at all. But the SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN theme seems like a modern day attempt to come up with something catchy like the old 60's theme. It's been in my head even 24 hours later, so I guess it worked.

The pilot showcases what Greg said he and the other writers would do; look at everything from Ditko to Ultimate and use what works for modern day and what doesn't. Spider-Man is quickly shown foiling a bank robbery and webbing up two thugs, one of which is Flint Marko (who we all know will become Sandman). That alone is what we call foreshadowing and this episode would lay the groundwork for more modest subplot work. Much as in the 90's show, the actions of Spider-Man over his short career (Peter apparently got his powers at the end of his last school year and acted as Spidey all summer long) have gotten the attention of the local mafia. Hammerhead acts as a second in command and the Enforcers are gathered; replacing the Kingpin is The Big Man, which works find as he pre-dated Fisk anyway and to my knowledge hasn't been animated before. Plus, Big Man is voiced by Keith David, and you don't get much better than that.

Peter's immediate supporting cast are Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy, and I thought it was a bold move not having MJ show up at all yet, either here or even in the second episode. Gwen takes the place of "brainy Jane" from Ultimate, acting as Peter's fellow geek-in-arms who secretly has feelings for him, but Peter is too oblivious. Boosted with confidence at being Spidey, he tries talking to cheerleader Sally Avril (best known via Untold Tales of Spidey, beyond one panel in Amazing Fantasy #15), only to get pushed around by the jocks, led by Flash Thompson. May is naturally struggling with bills without Ben around and while the tone is mostly light, Peter naturally wants to bring in some money into the household. Thus, he jumps when he is recommended for a lab position with Dr. Curt Conners, whose lab it was that he got the spider-bite. In another bit of foreshadowing, Conners is experimenting on his missing arm with reptile-DNA shots, and we all know where that is leading. The final guy in the immediate cast for the first few episodes is Eddie Brock, who is basically a nicer version of the Ultimate incarnation. He is a lab tech with Conners, who graduated from Midtown High and is now in college, and used to protect Peter from bullies. He's not a jerk at all and things may become very interesting when he ultimately becomes Venom. They may be building him as a tragic character.

The voice work is pretty good. Josh Keaton is near seemless as being Spider-Man/Peter Parker. Daran Norris makes an antic J.J. (although no one will ever match Ed Asner), and Lacey Chabert & James Arnold Taylor are fine as Gwen and Harry, respectively. But easily stealing the show is Robert "Freddy" Englund as The Vulture.

In more foreshadowing, Harry's father Norman steals Adrian Toomes' anti-gravity technology, in a move we all figure will ultimately lead to the Green Goblin emerging. Naturally miffed at having his work taken from him as well as being mocked for his age, Toomes becomes the high-flying Vulture, out to get revenge on Osborn. Englund has quickly become a stable voice actor; while his Felix Faust on JL/U was kind of generic, he was great in his 3 episodes of THE BATMAN as the Riddler and as Vulture is probably the best version of him that has ever been animated (and Vulture's shown up in a few cartoons). The design incorporates Terry Dodson's design from MKSM and that is good, helps eliminate one more "green" enemy of Spider-Man's.

Galloway's models take some getting used to for traditionalists. I liked them for the HELLBOY ANIMATED stuff, but naturally that is in homage to Mike Mignola's style and seeing that style in more traditional fare can be jarring. But the important thing about a cartoon is that it has to animate FLUIDLY. Bruce Timm realized that for his now-iconic simple style and considering the 90's Marvel shows had horribly complicated models that only stifled animation when the budgets fell every season, this is a good move. Spidey moves very well, and that is the main thing. While, no, he doesn't really punch, there's more to a Spidey fight than punching. And it isn't like the network has banned it. THE BATMAN plays for the same audience and Batman punches people all the time. Wait for it. Yeah, the pupils are big and I'd say Brock's is the model that takes the most getting used to (Norman looks a bit wiggy too), but they move well, and that is the main thing.

The pilot was packed to the GILLS, man. Spider-Man not only meets Norman and we see the "Norman sees in Peter the son he wishes Harry was" dynamic, and a funny bit with Peter forgetting his shoes there, but two battles with Vulture and then a tangle between the birdy and the Enforcers. Fancy Dan has been remade as a black man with a bo-staff, but I didn't mind that. Montana piloted the chopper with nary a sign of the lasso, but there is always time. I mean, when was the last time THESE three saw animation? And just when I thought that Peter/Spidey was acting TOO light considering Ben's death was only months ago, he narrates, "Harry shouldn't have to lose his father just like I lost Uncle Ben!" as he gives another try at beating Vulture. That ground it home and I liked that. Naturally, Spidey turns the tables on his enemies and comes home, only to then have to buckle to May's curfew rules. A day in the life...

I liked how the Spidey-mask seemed to cover the sky at the end, which is a clear homage to how Ditko would seemingly draw the last panel of many of the early ASM stories. There was also that "half mask" bit at the school. The only quibbles are that Peter's "sense" didn't seem to kick in on the bullies and his webbing is once again easy to break for anyone with even moderately inhuman strength, but that's been common in cartoons. Anyone catch the "Gargoyle" reference?

The 90's show is fondly remembered for the writing and voice-acting but the animation never was quite up to par, and only got laughable by the later seasons. The MTV show had great animation but the writing was off, and earlier projects of the 60's-80's were simply products of their time. In some ways we have NEVER had a Spidey show that had it all; good writing, acting, action, AND animation. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN is on it's way to trying to be that show, and it is off to a great start.
 
Nice review :D

I have to wonder what was Ox thinking when he jumped down from the building to grab Spidey. Can he fly or something? LOL
 
It has been about 5 years since the last time Spider-Man graced the small screen. Of course, that was on MTV, a network that all but gutted the show they had acquired and despite good ratings it was gone in a flash. Naturally in that time the movie franchise spawned two blockbuster sequels and the comics have had him join the Avengers, gain various wonky new powers and dig out someone's eyes, fight both for and against fascism in CIVIL WAR, and finally save Aunt May by getting Mephisto to annul his marriage. Suffice it to say, the comics have been a wasteland for a while. Some say BND is actually good, but to enjoy that in any way is to have to admit that OMD was worth it, and that is something I don't think I can ever do.

I was counting on this show to provide my "Spidey fix". He is my favorite superhero deep down, and the fella who got me into comics in the first place. Must've been those SPIDER-FRIENDS reruns that aired alongside SMURFS when I was a wee lad.

Naturally this show has had a lot of debate about it and a lot of sneak peeks and interviews with Greg Wiesman, Victor Cook, and others. The biggest stickling points seemed to be the character model designs by "Cheeks" Galloway and the fact that the Kingpin was "off limits" because he is considered part of the dead-in-the-water DAREDEVIL media franchise. But once the previews started coming, everyone seemed to agree this has potential. Greg always seemed to say the right things in interviews, and March 8th was noted on my calender, and not just because it was the day before my birthday. It meant missing TMNT, but damn it, it was Spidey. Even better, Kid's WB was kicking things off with TWO episodes. Of course, after they show 4-5 episodes we'll be in reruns for 2 months, but something is something.

My first impression of the pilot was; damn, this is the most non-decompressed pilot for a cartoon I'd seen in ages. A dozen or so characters were showing up within 22 minutes. From start to finish it was also a blast to watch.

The theme soing is quite catchy. It took me a season to get used to the TMNT one and THE BATMAN's new themesong by Season 3 I never quite liked at all. But the SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN theme seems like a modern day attempt to come up with something catchy like the old 60's theme. It's been in my head even 24 hours later, so I guess it worked.

The pilot showcases what Greg said he and the other writers would do; look at everything from Ditko to Ultimate and use what works for modern day and what doesn't. Spider-Man is quickly shown foiling a bank robbery and webbing up two thugs, one of which is Flint Marko (who we all know will become Sandman). That alone is what we call foreshadowing and this episode would lay the groundwork for more modest subplot work. Much as in the 90's show, the actions of Spider-Man over his short career (Peter apparently got his powers at the end of his last school year and acted as Spidey all summer long) have gotten the attention of the local mafia. Hammerhead acts as a second in command and the Enforcers are gathered; replacing the Kingpin is The Big Man, which works find as he pre-dated Fisk anyway and to my knowledge hasn't been animated before. Plus, Big Man is voiced by Keith David, and you don't get much better than that.

Peter's immediate supporting cast are Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy, and I thought it was a bold move not having MJ show up at all yet, either here or even in the second episode. Gwen takes the place of "brainy Jane" from Ultimate, acting as Peter's fellow geek-in-arms who secretly has feelings for him, but Peter is too oblivious. Boosted with confidence at being Spidey, he tries talking to cheerleader Sally Avril (best known via Untold Tales of Spidey, beyond one panel in Amazing Fantasy #15), only to get pushed around by the jocks, led by Flash Thompson. May is naturally struggling with bills without Ben around and while the tone is mostly light, Peter naturally wants to bring in some money into the household. Thus, he jumps when he is recommended for a lab position with Dr. Curt Conners, whose lab it was that he got the spider-bite. In another bit of foreshadowing, Conners is experimenting on his missing arm with reptile-DNA shots, and we all know where that is leading. The final guy in the immediate cast for the first few episodes is Eddie Brock, who is basically a nicer version of the Ultimate incarnation. He is a lab tech with Conners, who graduated from Midtown High and is now in college, and used to protect Peter from bullies. He's not a jerk at all and things may become very interesting when he ultimately becomes Venom. They may be building him as a tragic character.

The voice work is pretty good. Josh Keaton is near seemless as being Spider-Man/Peter Parker. Daran Norris makes an antic J.J. (although no one will ever match Ed Asner), and Lacey Chabert & James Arnold Taylor are fine as Gwen and Harry, respectively. But easily stealing the show is Robert "Freddy" Englund as The Vulture.

In more foreshadowing, Harry's father Norman steals Adrian Toomes' anti-gravity technology, in a move we all figure will ultimately lead to the Green Goblin emerging. Naturally miffed at having his work taken from him as well as being mocked for his age, Toomes becomes the high-flying Vulture, out to get revenge on Osborn. Englund has quickly become a stable voice actor; while his Felix Faust on JL/U was kind of generic, he was great in his 3 episodes of THE BATMAN as the Riddler and as Vulture is probably the best version of him that has ever been animated (and Vulture's shown up in a few cartoons). The design incorporates Terry Dodson's design from MKSM and that is good, helps eliminate one more "green" enemy of Spider-Man's.

Galloway's models take some getting used to for traditionalists. I liked them for the HELLBOY ANIMATED stuff, but naturally that is in homage to Mike Mignola's style and seeing that style in more traditional fare can be jarring. But the important thing about a cartoon is that it has to animate FLUIDLY. Bruce Timm realized that for his now-iconic simple style and considering the 90's Marvel shows had horribly complicated models that only stifled animation when the budgets fell every season, this is a good move. Spidey moves very well, and that is the main thing. While, no, he doesn't really punch, there's more to a Spidey fight than punching. And it isn't like the network has banned it. THE BATMAN plays for the same audience and Batman punches people all the time. Wait for it. Yeah, the pupils are big and I'd say Brock's is the model that takes the most getting used to (Norman looks a bit wiggy too), but they move well, and that is the main thing.

The pilot was packed to the GILLS, man. Spider-Man not only meets Norman and we see the "Norman sees in Peter the son he wishes Harry was" dynamic, and a funny bit with Peter forgetting his shoes there, but two battles with Vulture and then a tangle between the birdy and the Enforcers. Fancy Dan has been remade as a black man with a bo-staff, but I didn't mind that. Montana piloted the chopper with nary a sign of the lasso, but there is always time. I mean, when was the last time THESE three saw animation? And just when I thought that Peter/Spidey was acting TOO light considering Ben's death was only months ago, he narrates, "Harry shouldn't have to lose his father just like I lost Uncle Ben!" as he gives another try at beating Vulture. That ground it home and I liked that. Naturally, Spidey turns the tables on his enemies and comes home, only to then have to buckle to May's curfew rules. A day in the life...

I liked how the Spidey-mask seemed to cover the sky at the end, which is a clear homage to how Ditko would seemingly draw the last panel of many of the early ASM stories. There was also that "half mask" bit at the school. The only quibbles are that Peter's "sense" didn't seem to kick in on the bullies and his webbing is once again easy to break for anyone with even moderately inhuman strength, but that's been common in cartoons. Anyone catch the "Gargoyle" reference?

The 90's show is fondly remembered for the writing and voice-acting but the animation never was quite up to par, and only got laughable by the later seasons. The MTV show had great animation but the writing was off, and earlier projects of the 60's-80's were simply products of their time. In some ways we have NEVER had a Spidey show that had it all; good writing, acting, action, AND animation. SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN is on it's way to trying to be that show, and it is off to a great start.
Amazing review and I agree that this show is off to a great start! :applaud:up:
 
Nice review :D

I have to wonder what was Ox thinking when he jumped down from the building to grab Spidey. Can he fly or something? LOL

Ox was never too bright. In the comics he seemed to call all his punches "haymakers". He had some nice mutton-chops.

Amazing review and I agree that this show is off to a great start! :applaud:up:

Thanks.

I also am glad the webs are mechanical. Not that it is a deal-breaker for me, but I'm old-school damn it.
 
I also am glad the webs are mechanical. Not that it is a deal-breaker for me, but I'm old-school damn it.
Agreed, I like the organic web shooters for the films, but I like the mechanicals for the comics and cartoons. :up:
 
Always love your reviews Dread! Always spot on...

Nicely done.

Thanks. I do try. :D

Agreed, I like the organic web shooters for the films, but I like the mechanicals for the comics and cartoons. :up:

Exactly. Plus, I always felt they help showcase Spider-Man/Peter's inventive side. There's more to what makes Spider-Man a hero besides his heart and his powers, but his intellect comes into play as well. "Realists" who sometimes grumble things like, "if he was that smart, why isn't he Bill Gates and whatnot" miss the point, IMO.
 
Thanks. I do try. :D



Exactly. Plus, I always felt they help showcase Spider-Man/Peter's inventive side. There's more to what makes Spider-Man a hero besides his heart and his powers, but his intellect comes into play as well. "Realists" who sometimes grumble things like, "if he was that smart, why isn't he Bill Gates and whatnot" miss the point, IMO.
Defenitley my opinon. :applaud:up:
 
I like what I've seen so far. The animation is excelent, the character designs are a bit simplistic but I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

When Toomes was ranting about Norman stealing his flight technology all I could think was "well now we know how where he gets the glider in this series."
 
Spider-Man is quickly shown foiling a bank robbery and webbing up two thugs, one of which is Flint Marko (who we all know will become Sandman).
The other is the would-be Rhino.

They also introduced Jean DeWolff (voice of Irene Bedard, the title character in Disney's Pocahontas) and her eventual killer Stan Carter (voice of Tom Wilson, Matt Bluestone on Gargoyles); I can't really imagine them doing that story here, but it's a nice reference either way.
 
The other is the would-be Rhino.

They also introduced Jean DeWolff (voice of Irene Bedard, the title character in Disney's Pocahontas) and her eventual killer Stan Carter (voice of Tom Wilson, Matt Bluestone on Gargoyles); I can't really imagine them doing that story here, but it's a nice reference either way.
I thought I heard at some point he becomes Sin-Eater so who knows. Nice nod anyways. And I also thought that thug was a would be Rhino.
 

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