Suspension of disbelief -How much are you willing to believe?

[MyPokerShirt]

For those that don't realise what this is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

I just thought this would be a cool idea for a thread. The "what could kill wolverine" thread inspired me. How far are you willing to go? What are you willing to believe and what are your limits?

People are brought back to life in comics. There is magic and people always seem to go above and beyond their boundaries. Inconsistancies compared to real life are obviously acceptable to many - after all the majority of comics we read surround the lives of superheroes! But which examples of these have you refused to believe? What inconsistancies in the world of comics themselves have just pissed you off?

I think the obvious example is wolverine's changing ability to heal. Is he immortal? Has he become a parody of himself, Lobo-style?
Another major one for me would be the Green Goblin's involvement in not only all of the clone saga, but supposedly in the creation of many major spider-man villains, or their funding. I could not suspend my disbelief that far. How about you?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I prefer stories have their bases firmly grounded in reality as possible. Sure, they can get a little fantastic, but nothin' real extreme.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The only fantastic elements ought to be the people and the powers, not the storylines -- those need to make sense.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

so under no circumstances would you be happy/ willing to believe that someone could come back to life? In a world where you can accept magic and time machines?

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I think resurrection tales should be limited to magic types or only under extreme one-shot circumstances. I prefer they have the balls to make dead mean dead.

 

[Hades]

Most things are fine for me as long as they give at least a decent explaination that makes some sense. But I hate space travel and aliens, unless the character is from space or an alien, I think it's stupid.

 

[Vanguard07]

I dont. Why should people with amazing powers far beyond normal people be restricted to such a tiny space as earth?

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Are there any examples of planets with species weaker than humans? Thats my main gripe with sci-fi. Why are we usually the crappest species??? I know with superpowered mutants etc, the marvel universe earth has a certain reputation, but the only aliens i know of from marvel are kree, shiar and skrull and they (quite frankly) make earth look like crap.

 

[GNR]

Marvel does a good job of grounding most of their product in reality.Earth based storied are my thing,with Planet Hulk being an exception for the simple fact that it's leading to something much bigger.That's just me,no ill will towards those who prefer much more grande stories.

Anything that involves multi-universes,dimensions,realities,multiple earths,galaxies,etc and anything of that nature I tend to stray away from.

 

[Aptman]

Are there any examples of planets with species weaker than humans? Thats my main gripe with sci-fi. Why are we usually the crappest species??? I know with superpowered mutants etc, the marvel universe earth has a certain reputation, but the only aliens i know of from marvel are kree, shiar and skrull and they (quite frankly) make earth look like crap.

Heck yes, I totally agree. Each new species has their own special power that makes them more powerful. If it isn't physically, then its in tehnology or in some sort of mental powers, or extendeed life spans, the list goes on. What do we have...human "free-will" is usually the things writers use as why some weaker-than-every-other-species-in-the-universe human is destined or choosen to save the universe or possess some cosmic device.

...about "us" having mutants...don't forget that the Skrull had their own mutant group that followed Xavier for awhile too...

 

[SouLeSS]

Are there any examples of planets with species weaker than humans? Thats my main gripe with sci-fi. Why are we usually the crappest species??? I know with superpowered mutants etc, the marvel universe earth has a certain reputation, but the only aliens i know of from marvel are kree, shiar and skrull and they (quite frankly) make earth look like crap.

No, but the other planets don't have the technology to come attack us like said Kree Shiar and Skrull.

 

[Artistsean]

I don't really know, in animation I was taught to aproach it frimly based in reality (some sort of reality) and go from there.
But I do think that during the 90s things got out of hand and their (Marvel's) reality got VERY unreal.

 

[ang_hulk]

I dont like how far ultimate ff goes but have no problem with how far 616 goes.I guess it depends on the setting.

 

[The Leaguer]

I refuse to believe that a radioactive spider can give a man powers. That's just silly.

 

[Cyclops]

I think there has to be a logical medium of powers. For example, Wolverine's healing factor. In one book, he has trouble recovering from a stab wound.
In another, he regenerates from total incineration within minutes.

I think disbelief wouldn't HAVE to be suspended if editors did their ****ing jobs and put their writers on a leash.

 

[Fading]

My ability to suspend belief differs. I can look past something if I realize it was a former writers mistake and a new writer is correcting it or something, just so things can go back to semi-normal.

Like how the readers tend to like certain characters, a new writer comes in hating the current line up. Let's say an X team is Cyke, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm, Cable. Then let's say a new writer hates Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Cable and kills them off fast so he can bring in new guys. The new guys suck, and brain child's of the new writer who thought they'd rock...in his mind. So if it means getting Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Cable back when they switch writers when sales of that book slip and they change writers, I can swallow one bad story and move on.

Now things like if Spiderman were to kill someone for no reason other than shock value after years of avoiding it, that suspends my belief too much even if it's nothing incredible. Actually I thought about getting back into Spiderman until I realized his origin of powers were changed, he evolved twice, gained 'claws...err stingers', and the Norman thing, unmasking (which could be alright if handled well) and so on.

As for the Wolverine thing, I could have swallowed it if they gave it a reason. The trend for marvel is all of it's characters becoming crazy powerful, if it's evolving, discovering new powers, or whatever. If they had made a story, and explained his powers beefing up I'd be fine with it. As long as they don't make him a 50 ton class, give him super speed or whatever I'm fine. Tho I would be alright with them making him a 2-5 class so it's more reasonable why he can slash some of the things he can, but no stronger.

 

[Harlekin]

A lot. I'll leave it at that.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

the classic suspension of disbelief is supes disguising his ID with a pair of glasses. Anything as silly as that in the Marvel universe that we're willing to buy?

 

[Rambo, John J]

It's not so much a question of 'willingness to suspend disbelief' - (clearly we're all happy to do that, how else would we enjoy reading comics about a guy who can climb walls) - as it is an issue of 'how much are we willing to overlook'?

I.e. how much are we willing to ignore or overlook when a fictional universe goes against it's own rules?

In my case.... it depends on a variety of factors. How much am I willing to overlook? Quite a bit, even though I do sometimes have to grit my teeth and remind myself that 'it's just a comic... it's just a comic...'

 

[Varient]

On Topic:
All I require is consistancy and logical explanation and I can suspend belief.

Wolverine is a good example of where that breaks down.

When he first appeared,... He healed faster than normal.

This means that it would take him two weeks to heal from a sword through the gut that would kill anyone else. He had to eat regular to do this.


After he had the Adamantium sucked out,... he healed in literally a matter of minutes from injuries that would kill most folk outright.

He apparently was pulling the needed mass for repairs still from what he injested.


Well into his series,... his healing became low level regeneration.

This means if sufficient body mass remains after an injury,.. he will regenerate completly to his baseline.
This is the point of breakdown - there was no explanation as far as where he's pulling the materials to replace a hand on the fly.


Currently he is a complete regenerator.

He can survive ground zero on a tactical nuke.
There was a story that was written in Xmen that claimed that with a sufficient powersource Logan can regenerate from a drop of blood.


This powersource is not available in his day to day.


As long as the nod is given to history,..and the current changes are explained well,.. then I can continue to suspend belief.

currently Wolverine doesn't make the cut,.. and is currently classed with elves and fairies as far as I'm concerned.

Peace.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

It never took two weeks to recover from an injury. Most I heard was a couple of hours dependin' on severity. And they explained his increase durin' the bone saga. Everythin' after is fair game.

 

[November Rain]

any form of retconning i really don't like in general.

it makes a full of the viewer for assuming something for long periods of tiem and then having it just changed for the sake of it.

also anything that is somewhat human, whether emotion, drive, interaction, i have no tolerance of disbelief, that should all be grounded.

powers and explanations of their work i can live with all being some form of mystery. but the powers are really just a by product of decent characters. everyone knows we don't want to see characters that can do anything and stop anyone, they all need their limits and to be grounded (or at least the majority of them).

oh, and consistency on these powers would be nice, as well as updating facts on them, ie putting characters in a class range when they have shown countless times they can perform above this level.

 

[Varient]

It never took two weeks to recover from an injury. Most I heard was a couple of hours dependin' on severity. And they explained his increase durin' the bone saga. Everythin' after is fair game.

?
(Smile)
If you look at the issue immediately after the new xmen's trip to japan,... Logan is talking to Kitty Pryde about the sword thrust by silver Samurai through his stomach.

He commented that it will take about two weeks for it to completly heal.

Peace.

 

[The Fonz]

At first I was unwilling to believe a story about Canadian wolf-like-man with unbreakable claws who has an instantaneous healing factor but after reading the comic I decided to believe everything.

Most comics I read are for entertainment value unless they have something deep. But even then anything goes for me. I rate comics on interest. If it gets too absurd or tedious I just stop reading.

 

[Dread]

Considering that comic books are a fantastic medium where fantastic, otherworldly things happen, a "suspension of disbelief" is essential to keep from going insane. I mean, many of the character's origins themselves are either bizarre, impossible, or a product of their time. Radioactive spiders, gamma rays, that sort of thing. This is also true in terms of their powers.

Probably my biggest limit on suspension is on character actions and reactions, how they act, feel, etc. When a comic book character seems to abandon any reaction that could be explainable or logical for a human being, I tune out. When they display an action that is gravely OOC in some regards, I get very concerned. This happens with every character at some point, as a writer may have a story to tell but no way around that pesky "character" to do it. I won't name examples, because we all have some, and it applies to both Marvel and DC.

After that, there's the concept of death, which only became a concern in the 80's when death became something that could be marketable and reliable for sales, rather than something that was rare. Every time someone returns from the dead, it is harder to take a "death" seriously, to the point where I almost hate seeing anyone "die". Of course, the only time a "death" is permanent is if it either is so pivotal to a franchise that undoing it would essentially destroy it, and/or the character is a minor supporting player or C-List character. I feel at this point a death should be rare so it has meaning again, and I get tired seeing characters whose entire premise is cheating death die again. Like every time I see Magneto's "non-death" scene, part of me gets more bitter.

And after that, sometimes a power level lapse gets into the realm of ridiculousness. Feats of strength can be explained; if normal people can at times go under an "andrenaline rush" during a crisis that can be sufficient to lift even VEHICLES off themselves or a loved one, than a hero who can lift a few tons surely can become far stronger during intense stress. And naturally, there is that "underdog" factor were we love to see a hero who is totally outgunned somehow triumph over a foe. But sometimes if said foe loses because of sheer overconfident stupidity, I tune out. I also tune out if said underdog seems to have the victory "handed" to him/her because the threat seemed to "submit" in some way. And finally, there should be some sort of agreed-upon set of power level limits in some degrees to some characters. Wolverine is the easiest example because his "healing factor" has gone from "slow, but faster than normal" healing that took days or hours, to "Hulk-esque meta-regeneration" that can regrow an entire body in a few pages.

Plus, even a healthy suspension of belief can't save a poor story that is riddled with plot holes, has some flaws in the execution, or is what Roger Ebert calls an "Idiot Story", in which the plot could be solved in 10 minutes if the characters didn't act like idiots. Comic writing is no easier than writing for other mediums, and why is that a shock? Comics are an art, not a form of trash.