Action-Adventure Terminator: Dark Fate

[TheVileOne]

If the leaks are real, it's pretty much Genisys 2.0 here.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Whoever produced Dark Fate felt Genisys was such a great idea that it was worth another try.

 

[Aximili86]

I only ever caught TSCC here and there. Was it genuinely good?

Definitely. I mean, it was a Fox show from 10 years ago, so don't expect like huge Game Of Thrones setpieces or writing like Breaking Bad/The Americans level, but it's sort of next-tier-down-from-that awesome.

Tonally it's sort of like a less-brutal T1 with a little of that T2 flair, the casting is pretty awesome (maybe Glau aside, but even she's basically decent and gets the job done). Music's better than anything post-Fiedel, and they do some really interesting things with the mythology, take it in some pretty ballsy directions - some of which you probably wouldn't want for the movies, but it works great in the show in context. Just see it as an "elseworlds" story (which helps swallow the re-castings better in the first place, see it as its own thing) and you'll dig it.

Couple of drawbacks, "Kyle Reese had a brother who got send back!", and the CG Terminators are kind of ass, but they're few-and-far between and mostly it's just guys playing them with the flesh coverings, so it's not a huge deal.

On-balance it's a million times more legitimate O.G. Terminator than anything post-Cameron movie-wise.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

If the leaks are real, it's pretty much Genisys 2.0 here.

Whoever produced Dark Fate felt Genisys was such a great idea that it was worth another try.

I've avoided the leaks but as time's gone on I've kinda got the feeling that was the case.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Definitely. I mean, it was a Fox show from 10 years ago, so don't expect like huge Game Of Thrones setpieces or writing like Breaking Bad/The Americans level, but it's sort of next-tier-down-from-that awesome.

Tonally it's sort of like a less-brutal T1 with a little of that T2 flair, the casting is pretty awesome (maybe Glau aside, but even she's basically decent and gets the job done). Music's better than anything post-Fiedel, and they do some really interesting things with the mythology, take it in some pretty ballsy directions - some of which you probably wouldn't want for the movies, but it works great in the show in context. Just see it as an "elseworlds" story (which helps swallow the re-castings better in the first place, see it as its own thing) and you'll dig it.

Couple of drawbacks, "Kyle Reese had a brother who got send back!", and the CG Terminators are kind of ass, but they're few-and-far between and mostly it's just guys playing them with the flesh coverings, so it's not a huge deal.

On-balance it's a million times more legitimate O.G. Terminator than anything post-Cameron movie-wise.

Thanks for the breakdown!

 

[TheFuture]

If the leaks are real, it's pretty much Genisys 2.0 here.

Yes that was what struck me in particular.

 

[Deck Rickard]

That and "come with me if you want to live."

They need to use some variations of those lines in the next movie. Introduce a character who is convinced he's always going to die and have him say "Come with me if you want to die" and "I won't be back."

 

[TheVileOne]

My big problem with the leaks, if they are real, I'm not sure they are, is that they contain a major retcon that basically RUINS the entire franchise, especially Terminator 2.

Much like the original ending for Terminator Salvation. I also question how truly invested Cameron is in this latest so-called "sequel."

T2 didn't end on a high note so much as on an ambiguous one of hope. There was hope that the future could possibly be changed or at least hope for John and Sarah.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, I just read the leaks. And look, I kinda get the rationale for

Spoiler

killing off John Connor, since he's essentially just another white savior cliche and the franchise hasn't known what the hell to do with him since T2. But like Vile said, killing him off basically undoes the first two movies, which up until this point have been the only good ones.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, I just read the leaks. And look, I kinda get the rationale for

Spoiler

killing off John Connor, since he's essentially just another white savior cliche and the franchise hasn't known what the hell to do with him since T2. But like Vile said, killing him off basically undoes the first two movies, which up until this point have been the only good ones.

Spoiler

T2 even shows John Connor leading the resistance. If they really undo it and say it was Johanna Connor...

Well, I guess we're misogynists then

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, I just read the leaks. And look, I kinda get the rationale for

Spoiler

killing off John Connor, since he's essentially just another white savior cliche and the franchise hasn't known what the hell to do with him since T2. But like Vile said, killing him off basically undoes the first two movies, which up until this point have been the only good ones.

I think the rationale is to try and do something different and just wipe the slate clean and also surprise the audience. But they are basically just repeating what Genisys did in just a slightly different way.

 

[TheFuture]

Spoiler

T2 even shows John Connor leading the resistance. If they really undo it and say it was Johanna Connor...

Well, I guess we're misogynists then

Spoiler

It sounds like they're going with the angle that once Arnie went to his death in T2, John was released from his fate and thus his death wouldn't be critical to the human race. Which would be fine if not for the fact they're saying judgement day is inevitable....just like T3 claimed which is apparently a disgrace to the canon.

 

[Binker]

Terminator-related:

Remember the scene in Last Action hero where Stallone was Terminator in T2 in that world? Well here's Stallone in T2 from that world. Not kidding.

 

[Alien Anal]

Here is an idea I have been working on for a future war trilogy film set in 2020 leading up 2029 for the final film.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, I just read the leaks. And look, I kinda get the rationale for

Spoiler

killing off John Connor, since he's essentially just another white savior cliche and the franchise hasn't known what the hell to do with him since T2. But like Vile said, killing him off basically undoes the first two movies, which up until this point have been the only good ones.

Good ****ing god. What the hell does Connor being white have to do with anything?

You're setting it in Mexico, then saving an important Mexican chick makes total sense. But John was never a "white savior", he was just a savior who happened to be a white dude. Killing him here's actually a really ballsy & fun move if they're going to go that way, but as others have said, it's also pretty goddamn cheap especially if they're intending this as "the legit" continuation of the first two. Race doesn't come into it.

 

[Schlosser85]

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like more fanfiction. Like everything since T2.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, I just read the leaks. And look, I kinda get the rationale for

Spoiler

killing off John Connor, since he's essentially just another white savior cliche and the franchise hasn't known what the hell to do with him since T2. But like Vile said, killing him off basically undoes the first two movies, which up until this point have been the only good ones.

Nope. **** it, I'm out.

 

[TheFuture]

Yeah seriously, you can't pin white saviour on that two film narrative; that's the type of mentality, if picked up en masse, that will alienate people who have followed this story for a very long time.

Again my opinion is if they can't continue on that two film narrative without the central character that they built it upon then they shouldn't bother at all.

 

[Teelie]

It makes me wary of another Genisys but with who is involved maybe they can at least get a not-terrible sequel out of it. I doubt it will be good but one can hope they prove everybody wrong.

 

[henzINNIT]

A good film supersedes a questionable creative decision so I will remain open to change.

I will say though that I wish Dark Fate (or any of the preceding attempts) would try hard to 'colour inside the lines' of the timeline established in the first two films. It's not impossible to do, and any and all changes to the history tend to muddy the waters.

 

[Hurm...]

Yeah seriously, you can't pin white saviour on that two film narrative; that's the type of mentality, if picked up en masse, that will alienate people who have followed this story for a very long time.

Again my opinion is if they can't continue on that two film narrative without the central character that they built it upon then they shouldn't bother at all.

Since when did Terminator become about f***ing gender politics anyway?!

 

[TheFuture]

Since when did Terminator become about f***ing gender politics anyway?!

I don't know if I'd call it gender politics more misguidedness. Cameron once said the story had nowhere to go after T2; but that was pre Avatar Cameron. Post Avatar Cameron seems to be all about the cash.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well Terminator 2 always is lauded for turning Sarah Connor into this gritty badass female action hero.

And pretty much everything is a battle of outrage and gender politics these days. Just saying.

 

[godisawesome]

A good film supersedes a questionable creative decision so I will remain open to change.

I will say though that I wish Dark Fate (or any of the preceding attempts) would try hard to 'colour inside the lines' of the timeline established in the first two films. It's not impossible to do, and any and all changes to the history tend to muddy the waters.

Some speculation as to how they could do the timeline changes while still repeating themes and ideas:

Spoiler

T2 successfully defused the entirety of that particular scenario: Skynet was wiped from the timeline, period, as was the original variation of Judgement Day.

But technology is still evolving along similar lines, so eventually an evil computer will try to take over the world, and get access to the remnants of information about the Terminators from Skynet, allowing it to try and recreate the scenario.

However, differentiating the players a bit could do a lot. Maybe the new Skynet-proxy doesn’t want to eliminate all humans, but rule them, and humanity getting a few more years before the Skynet-proxy’s rise means they have some computer allies of their own.

Thus, the new protector (more of an augmented compromise between the various allies, technological and human) sent back in time is unaware of the original Terminator scenarios, the new Terminator only has deduced suppositions about the events and some technological inspiration... but Sara Conner recognizes the pattern and becomes an effective spoiler.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Just rewatched the trailer. Man, I get more and more of a Genisys vibe every time. Maybe it's just because that's in the back of my mind...