Terminator: Genisys - Part 6

[Anita18]

I watched it like 100 times and I don't see it changing size or moving around.

After the cut, his chin is mysteriously liposuctioned. That's the most obvious.

So I'm trying to work the plot out and I'm confused.

- John Connor sends Reese back in time to protect his mother

- But a T-800 arrives long beforehand and raises her

- Wouldn't John have known she was protected in the future then? I mean the logic of the first film was all that stuff had already happened, like the photograph and the recording

- But anyhow, somehow Skynet gets ahold of future John and merges with him or something, assuming that new terminator is really John as the trailers claim

- But then why is John trying to kill his own mother and erase himself from existence? And wouldn't the fact that he's in the past mean his mother would tell young John about what happened, preventing him from going into the past in the future?

Shhhhh....there's nothing to understand.

 

[Defacto]

Shhhhh....there's nothing to understand.

Lol, yeah. People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

 

[Zantera]

It looks like we'll get an explanation in the movie. Because the way the trailers have shown it, Reese is obviously surprised when he shows up and things aren't the way they are supposed to be, and I even think Sarah Connor said something about it, like "things have changed", so we're pretty much guaranteed to get an explanation about exactly what happened that caused the messed up timeline.

Whether the explanation is total BS or actually a decent plot device, we will just have to wait for the movie to see. With time travel movies I don't think you can be too nitpicky, because they all fall apart if you try to analyze them.

 

[Mysteryman]

Lol, yeah. People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

The Terminator / Doctor Who .
Epic crossover !

 

[Terminator]

So I'm trying to work the plot out and I'm confused.

- John Connor sends Reese back in time to protect his mother

- But a T-800 arrives long beforehand and raises her

- Wouldn't John have known she was protected in the future then? I mean the logic of the first film was all that stuff had already happened, like the photograph and the recording

- But anyhow, somehow Skynet gets ahold of future John and merges with him or something, assuming that new terminator is really John as the trailers claim

- But then why is John trying to kill his own mother and erase himself from existence? And wouldn't the fact that he's in the past mean his mother would tell young John about what happened, preventing him from going into the past in the future?

John wouldn't know because that future exists in the world where T1/T2 happened not the events of Genisys.

John isn't trying to kill his mother, the T-3000 is. Telling him wouldn't stop him from going to the past since he doesn't have control. But it's a different timeline anyway.

 

[JackMercy]

John wouldn't know because that future exists in the world where T1/T2 happened not the events of Genisys.

John isn't trying to kill his mother, the T-3000 is. Telling him wouldn't stop him from going to the past since he doesn't have control. But it's a different timeline anyway.

They're trying to pull some Star Trek '09/Days of Future Past stuff, but given the Terminator series has already explored many future/past scenarios...I'm not sure how "new" this going to feel...

...But I also wouldn't be surprised if "Everything's changed" is the only explanation we get...

Something about this movie feels lazy like that...

Though I'm a fan of Arnold, and would like to see him succeed...
I can see more and more why Megan Ellison washed her hands of this...

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

So I'm trying to work the plot out and I'm confused.

- John Connor sends Reese back in time to protect his mother

- But a T-800 arrives long beforehand and raises her

- Wouldn't John have known she was protected in the future then? I mean the logic of the first film was all that stuff had already happened, like the photograph and the recording

- But anyhow, somehow Skynet gets ahold of future John and merges with him or something, assuming that new terminator is really John as the trailers claim

- But then why is John trying to kill his own mother and erase himself from existence? And wouldn't the fact that he's in the past mean his mother would tell young John about what happened, preventing him from going into the past in the future?

Since this isn't set in a blank continuity, yet.

By my understanding of Time Travel in the Terminator franchise John should know of the past as it is.

So it's not possible to send a T800 back to an alternate past. As that past would be this future, and it isn't.

If Pops was in the past protecting Sarah then that's the past of the current future. But the movie seems to be making out that John comes from a past where Pops didn't exist which is just ridiculous.

Would be like me sending someone into my past and they discover I was never born. If I was never born I could never have sent him back. So the time traveller would only be able to go back into a past where I exist and could potentially change the future.

But you can't travel to the past from a future that doesn't exist, which is why this whole movie seems impossible and convuluted as ****

It looks like we'll get an explanation in the movie. Because the way the trailers have shown it, Reese is obviously surprised when he shows up and things aren't the way they are supposed to be, and I even think Sarah Connor said something about it, like "things have changed", so we're pretty much guaranteed to get an explanation about exactly what happened that caused the messed up timeline.

Whether the explanation is total BS or actually a decent plot device, we will just have to wait for the movie to see. With time travel movies I don't think you can be too nitpicky, because they all fall apart if you try to analyze them.

I can't see there being a an Explaination that would make sense.

Reese seems to be traveling from a future that doesn't exist as the past is different which equals a different future

The only way I could wrap my head around it is if Reese travels back and the past is the way is must be and then a T800 (pops) from a more distant future than Reese goes back further and changes things and then time warps around Reese. So when he arrives he's in the correct past and it shifts around him and he knows as he's outside of time.

Then again if Reese travels back and changes things then the future future that pops is sent back from would've been altered and he wouldn't go back

 

[StarLord]

Arnie and Emilia are guests on The Graham Norton Show in 5 mins... BBC One.

 

[flickchick85]

Which means next week for those of us in the US.

 

[Manofplastic]

o man that video of Arnold walking around the city pranking as the Terminator was hilarious.
"get out [of the truck]" was my favourite
[YT]w81g199L8YA[/YT]

that was thoroughly awesome.

"'who's this girl' ?"

killed it right there.

 

[Manofplastic]

trying to reason T5

to be honest, the entire terminator movie series are squad logical and frankly impossible with that reasoning.

remember, the first terminator movie revolved around kyle reese protecting sarah from the terminator sent back in time to kill sarah connor to prevent the resistance. that did not work. but the terminators could not have known that in the future: there are no time-travel communications.
so that means, that you have a repeating never-ending cycle.

T1 events: skynet sends in 2029 a terminator to 1984. they do it with the intention that john connor never is born. that means if they'd succeed there would be an alternative timeline as of 1984.
Either way, skynet - in 'original' 2029 - gives up their current state in favor of having an alternate history. the 2029 skynet will never know what happened, because when the original terminator is sent to 1984, the time is 1984.

so in 1984, we have a terminator to kill sarah connor. Unfortunately however, this means 2029 skynet's idea never worked. Because if in 1984 terminator would have killed sarah, then there would never have been the need for a terminator to travel through time.

There is no way skynet can know this, so the time goes by like it would in 1984 normally and somewhere in 2029 the events occur when a terminator is sent back.

it's a endless cycle. imho, that is one of the aspects making T1 so damn good.

T2 movie makes less sense when you think about that.

In the same sense, there can be no logic in what we know this far about T5. we'll see what unfolds in the movie.

obviously it's already rediculous that there are 2 t-800's, a t-1000, no kristanna loken terminator, and some john connor terminator lovechild.

Personally, i'm not concerned about the story. Except for T1, and T1 stand-alone, the stories don't make sense. apart from that, i love T1, T2, T3 and even T4 - even though i concider T4 to be quite different and not in the line of T1-3.

the only 'problem' T5 has given me untill now is the visual weirdness that you see in the trailers. i would have expected better CGI, but it seems that they've thrown the CGI budget more into the connorminator.

as for the story in T5; it would be quite a plot twist if skynet actually sends back a terminator because of the connornator demon lovechild; kill john connor so there can never be a connorminator.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

So I think I just realised something about T1.

I initially thought the John Connor shown in 2029 was from Sarah and an unknown man. Then in 1984 because of Kyles interference he becomes the Father of John which due to Sarah's knowledge of the future turns him into a badass like the John she heard about from Kyle.

But I forgot the photo of Sarah that Kyle has in 2029. That shows her travelling off to South America with Kyle Reeses son. But she'd be a waitress wouldn't she so that I think proves that the 2029 future that Kyle travels from can't exist unles the event of the movie happened already resulting in a paradox.

So technically the Gensys future can't exist either as the past was different. After all John and Kyle come from the T1/T2 future but when Kyle goes back he's not in that timeline as Pops had come previously and altered the timeline and by all rights that would lead to a future where thwt happened already.

I dunno. Best I can wrap my head around it is it's like original Bully Biff before the almanac (80s) travelling back in time and being in the past already altred by the alamanac where he'd grow to be evil tycoon Biff (2015) which means he'd have to have not just time travelled but jumped alternate imelines in the process.

 

[Jay Beezy]

to be honest, the entire terminator movie series are squad logical and frankly impossible with that reasoning.

remember, the first terminator movie revolved around kyle reese protecting sarah from the terminator sent back in time to kill sarah connor to prevent the resistance. that did not work. but the terminators could not have known that in the future: there are no time-travel communications.
so that means, that you have a repeating never-ending cycle.

T1 events: skynet sends in 2029 a terminator to 1984. they do it with the intention that john connor never is born. that means if they'd succeed there would be an alternative timeline as of 1984.
Either way, skynet - in 'original' 2029 - gives up their current state in favor of having an alternate history. the 2029 skynet will never know what happened, because when the original terminator is sent to 1984, the time is 1984.

so in 1984, we have a terminator to kill sarah connor. Unfortunately however, this means 2029 skynet's idea never worked. Because if in 1984 terminator would have killed sarah, then there would never have been the need for a terminator to travel through time.

There is no way skynet can know this, so the time goes by like it would in 1984 normally and somewhere in 2029 the events occur when a terminator is sent back.

it's a endless cycle. imho, that is one of the aspects making T1 so damn good.

T2 movie makes less sense when you think about that.

In the same sense, there can be no logic in what we know this far about T5. we'll see what unfolds in the movie.

obviously it's already rediculous that there are 2 t-800's, a t-1000, no kristanna loken terminator, and some john connor terminator lovechild.

Personally, i'm not concerned about the story. Except for T1, and T1 stand-alone, the stories don't make sense. apart from that, i love T1, T2, T3 and even T4 - even though i concider T4 to be quite different and not in the line of T1-3.

the only 'problem' T5 has given me untill now is the visual weirdness that you see in the trailers. i would have expected better CGI, but it seems that they've thrown the CGI budget more into the connorminator.

as for the story in T5; it would be quite a plot twist if skynet actually sends back a terminator because of the connornator demon lovechild; kill john connor so there can never be a connorminator.

I'm one of those people that's finicky about time paradoxes, but I actually do like the idea of a looped timeline regarding John Connor and Skynet.

Skynet is reverse engineered by one of its own machines that was sent back in time, while the leader of the Resistance is fathered by the man sent back to protect the mother.

Obviously if Skynet and Judgment Day were prevented in T2 when the good T-800 needed to be destroyed, John Connor should have disappeared.

Someone on another forum desperately trying to defend this and saying to have read the script says he prefers the films to follow the "No Fate but What We Make" philosophy the first two films set up. What he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge is how can mere mortal humans do such things when they have no control over time.

 

[Kane52630]

I still stand by my timeline...each movie has it's own timeline (aka standalones). Once somebody goes back in time it created a new timeline of events.

 

[Supernova]

I still stand by my timeline...each movie has it's own timeline (aka standalones). Once sometime goes back in time it created a new timeline of events.

I can see that but 1 and 2 were so clean then 3 screwed it all up. Salvation didnt since time travel wasnt in play really just early stages of the war with connor. Maybe thats why salvation didnt feel like a terminator film since certain check marks werent hit.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Oh, I certainly won't be paying any attention to the story whenever I get around to seeing this thing

 

[Jay Beezy]

I can see that but 1 and 2 were so clean then 3 screwed it all up. Salvation didnt since time travel wasnt in play really just early stages of the war with connor. Maybe thats why salvation didnt feel like a terminator film since certain check marks werent hit.

They teased at altering the timeline when Skynet put Kyle Reese on their hitlist.

 

[Marvolo]

So I'm trying to work the plot out and I'm confused.

- John Connor sends Reese back in time to protect his mother

- But a T-800 arrives long beforehand and raises her

- Wouldn't John have known she was protected in the future then? I mean the logic of the first film was all that stuff had already happened, like the photograph and the recording

- But anyhow, somehow Skynet gets ahold of future John and merges with him or something, assuming that new terminator is really John as the trailers claim

- But then why is John trying to kill his own mother and erase himself from existence? And wouldn't the fact that he's in the past mean his mother would tell young John about what happened, preventing him from going into the past in the future?

I don't think that's John at all. There is nothing organic about what we've seen of the T-3000 (Terminator John). It appears to be entirely made of nano robots that can form any sort of exoskin and clothing it needs or wants. And it has no internalize guts or organs. Just some sort of internal skeleton made of the same nanites that make up its exterior. So two possibilities:

1. After Kyle is sent back, like immediately after he leaves the future, the machines storm into that room with the time travel machine where John and his soldier buddies are and capture John. They download his consciousness and memories and then upload them into the memory bank of the T-3000. So the thing has all of John's memories and personality and can look like John and perfectly act like John but it's not actually John.

2. After Kyle is sent back. John is captured and the machines take his brain and put it into the T-3000, but Skynet **** with it so that John is no longer the John that Kyle knew. It's John's warped brain in a machine body.

 

[Supernova]

They teased at altering the timeline when Skynet put Kyle Reese on their hitlist.

True but other then that plot hole it was ok as well, no denying 3 just came in and cocked its leg on the 1st 2

 

[WC Avengers]

I am still trying to get over the fact that this film erases

EVERYTHING AFTER THE PUNKS SCENE

no T1, no MF T2, no T3 and no Salvation

 

[Marvolo]

I am still trying to get over the fact that this film erases

EVERYTHING AFTER THE PUNKS SCENE

no T1, no MF T2, no T3 and no Salvation

It doesn't erase it just creates an alternate timeline. Least that's my rationale. Besides this film can't erase T1 or T2 from my blu-ray collection.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I still stand by my timeline...each movie has it's own timeline (aka standalones). Once somebody goes back in time it created a new timeline of events.

The problem is when Old-T800 creates a new timeline. Kyle Reese should come from that timeline but he seems to come from the original and end up on the new alternate one

Picture a long road.

This movie from what I can tell had a T800 reverse down the road 100 miles and paves a new road alongside the first. Then Kyle reverses from the same road as the T800 but 80 miles and somehow ends up on the second road.

The only way from the time travel method in the franchise so far to end up 80 miles back on that second road is to have reversed down that second road.

 

[Terminator]

I am still trying to get over the fact that this film erases

EVERYTHING AFTER THE PUNKS SCENE

no T1, no MF T2, no T3 and no Salvation

It's not like the timeline was consistent after T2 anyway with the changing of John's age and CRS.

 

[Faora]

o man that video of Arnold walking around the city pranking as the Terminator was hilarious.
"get out [of the truck]" was my favourite
[YT]w81g199L8YA[/YT]

Great.

 

[Manofplastic]

I don't think that's John at all. There is nothing organic about what we've seen of the T-3000 (Terminator John). It appears to be entirely made of nano robots that can form any sort of exoskin and clothing it needs or wants. And it has no internalize guts or organs. Just some sort of internal skeleton made of the same nanites that make up its exterior. So two possibilities:

1. After Kyle is sent back, like immediately after he leaves the future, the machines storm into that room with the time travel machine where John and his soldier buddies are and capture John. They download his consciousness and memories and then upload them into the memory bank of the T-3000. So the thing has all of John's memories and personality and can look like John and perfectly act like John but it's not actually John.

2. After Kyle is sent back. John is captured and the machines take his brain and put it into the T-3000, but Skynet **** with it so that John is no longer the John that Kyle knew. It's John's warped brain in a machine body.

i really like this, and it actually would make sense and is a very good possibility imho. we'll just have to see the movie.
i'd go with theory 1.