The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - The ANIMATED SERIES is now set for 2011

[Dread]

Sorry to hear he's not involved with this. But now i know why SSM is so good. A good story editor like him is worth more than platinum.

Definitely.

But the production teeam here sounds pretty good. TMNT X-men Evolutioin and the Batman (post Season One) were solid. I'm hoping they keep the action at a TMNT level.

According to TV.com, Yost wrote 4 episodes of X-Men Evolution, including both of X-23's, who he is creditted with co-creating and who he and Criag Kyle brought to the Marvel Universe proper. Granted, I never cared for X-23 at all. All of his episodes of THE BATMAN were in Season 2, which was not the worst of the show, but hardly it's prime. He wrote 17 episodes of TMNT, around Seasons 3 & 4. Many of them were actually pretty good.

Of course FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH was the series where he appeared to have the most power, acting as writer or story editor for more than half the series alongside Criag Kyle. The series gets a lot of flack, but if you're not looking for action, it's actually a lot of fun. The characters interact very well and it usually was quite funny. It debuted right as JLU was ending, though, and combined with CN's terrible airing and promotion, it was buried.

He's also worked on the last three Lion's Gate Marvel DTV's at least.

Yost's peak work would be TMNT, for me. His Marvel work, though, has usually been alongside Kyle and hasn't usually set the standard. He knows his stuff and is no hack, but he's yet to write something for Marvel where I really stood up and said, "Damn, this fellow writes some good ****". FF:WGH is fun but not the sort of superhero show I want AVENGERS: WGH to be. While NEXT AVENGERS featured tweenie heroes, it did show a bit of knowledge of Avengers lore (and cool versions of Vision and Ultron). It is possible this could be his breakout series. The Avengers certainly deserve it.

 

[DOG LIPS]

At least it gives them over two years to get things right during the production phase.

Not only did UTS "not cut it", it was an animation abomination of mankind.

True.


You saying you didn't like the armor-up sequences??

 

[Gold Samurai]

The designs look great. They kind of remind me of Transformers animated. If they stay true to the comics like Spectacular Spider-man, this show will be a hit. I can't wait for this show to come out or the figures!

Iron Man reminded me of bumblebee or jazz

 

[Primal Slayer]

Im excited but I hate the direction they are going with the animation style.

 

[Dread]

True.


You saying you didn't like the armor-up sequences??

Especially not the armor-up sequences, which just repeated animation to shave a few bucks off the budget.

The only thing I liked about that show was Wonder Man's character design. The rest was animated poo on a stick, thanks to Arad and SABAN.

 

[Dread]

The biggest concern about AVENGERS: EMH, at least in specifics, actually spawns from NEXT AVENGERS, where

Spoiler

instead of Hank Pym being the creator of Ultron, it was Iron Man. I sincerely hope Yost doesn't change that in this series just because Iron Man is arguably Marvel's biggest movie star now. There are plenty of ways to make Iron Man vital to the team and spotlight some of his enemies without robbing Hank of one of his prime Avengers story lines.

 

[Dread]

A minor update, from Toonzone, from Halloween:

"Hulk: Gamma Corps" Status Confirmed, Update On "The Avengers: Earth's Greatest Heroes"

October 31, 2008 by James Harvey

Marvel Animation has confirmed the status of the Hulk: Gamma Corps animated series, and reveals how it became a part of The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. A Marvel Animation Age exclusive!

Originally announced last year, the Hulk: Gamma Corps animated series has been confirmed as officially canceled by Marvel Animation. But, it's not as cut and dry as one may think. Hulk: Gamma Corps was actually in production, but then The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes came along.

Joshua Fine, Director of Animation Development for Marvel Animation, tells Marvel Animation Age that the Hulk: Gamma Corp animated series was in pre-production when the decision was made to fold the creative work being done there into the upcoming The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series. Even though the creative team was well into pre-production of Hulk: Gamma Corps, with scripting underway, they saw the chance to tell bigger stories that reached far beyond Hulk's universe.

"It became apparent to us that the creative work that was being done to bring Hulk’s world and his villains to life was too good to relegate to his universe alone, and would be much better suited as part of an full-on Avengers scenario," says Fine.

Producer Ciro Nieli, who was previously working on the shelved Hulk: Gamma Corps animated series, is now currently working on the upcoming highly-anticipated The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series. While more details will be revealed about The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes as production moves forward, Fine can reveal one absolute about the upcoming Marvel Animation series,

"This show is going to be big!"

Expect many elements of the shelved Hulk: Gamma Corps animated series to be worked into the upcoming The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series. The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes is scheduled to premiere in 2011.

A quick recap; around when THE INCREDIBLE HULK was about to be in theaters, a Hulk cartoon was kicked around by Marvel called HULK: GAMMA CORPS. No details or art were shown. It explains why Nieli, who probably is best known for TEEN TITANS, got aboard.

This happened before with Hulk and a cartoon; rumor was that when the last HULK movie was circulating in 2003, a cartoon for Kid's WB was coming out, called HULKS. Steven E. Gordon, who did design work for X-MEN EVOLUTION (and later, ULTIMATE AVENGERS and WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN) did some sketches. The premise of that failed show was about Hulk's son. Yeah, a teenage Hulk. Hey, it was Kid's WB. The show was scrapped, likely due to the lukewarm reception from the film. I imagine that is why HULK: GAMMA CORPS was shelved.

Hopefully in his quest to reuse some ideas, Nieli doesn't just see AVENGERS: EMH as a dumping ground for Hulk bad guys. It also, however, suggests that Hulk may be sticking around longer than he did in the comics, likely due to popularity. Granted, Iron Man was the one who scored a half billion dollars domestic, so he likely will figure heavily into the show as well.

 

[Jordacar]

I think the whole thing of Hulk being kinda the black sheep of the Avengers has the potential for some really compelling drama.

 

[Dread]

I think the whole thing of Hulk being kinda the black sheep of the Avengers has the potential for some really compelling drama.

It could, so long as he and Iron Man don't overwhelm the show. LEGION OF SUPERHEROES overrelied on Superman and it bogged the show down; Nieli also worked on that program (TEEN TITANS often relied on Robin, IMO). A proper balance should be established.

That said, I did doubt the show would dismiss the Hulk midway through Season 1. Cap, Thor, and Iron Man may be the "big three", but Hulk likely makes it four in the eyes of execs.

 

[Syncos]

I stick by my statements that putting an Avengers cartoon on TV before or around when Marvel wants a movie on the big screen is just common sense, much as DC was prepping people for Justice League with the last season of THE BATMAN (and had JL/U cartoons for years on CN). While every film that builds to AVENGERS may not earn the same amount of cash (IRON MAN was a worldwide blockbuster totaling nearly a billion dollars; THE INCREDIBLE HULK will likely need strong DVD sales just to break even), moving forward is good and utilizing the small screen only adds to that.

The Incredible Hulk's budget was $150 million and they made $262 million worldwide in theaters, they've already more than broke even.

As for this series. It sounds interesting. People read that the producer of Teen Titans and Fantastic Four was on board and instantly feared Anime, and that's understandable judging from the track record. However, it's being done by the studio that animates the Simpsons and King of the Hill? Well damn. Those series (although haven't been funny in years) have some spectacular animation.

The style if shown on the picture on the previous page, borrows a lot from Bruce Timm's style. Which is fine by me. I'll be interested to see the first few episodes to see if the story is on par.

 

[Dread]

The Incredible Hulk's budget was $150 million and they made $262 million worldwide in theaters, they've already more than broke even.

As for this series. It sounds interesting. People read that the producer of Teen Titans and Fantastic Four was on board and instantly feared Anime, and that's understandable judging from the track record. However, it's being done by the studio that animates the Simpsons and King of the Hill? Well damn. Those series (although haven't been funny in years) have some spectacular animation.

The style if shown on the picture on the previous page, borrows a lot from Bruce Timm's style. Which is fine by me. I'll be interested to see the first few episodes to see if the story is on par.

I heard conflicting reports about INCREDIBLE HULK's earnings. Some people believed it cost more to make and promote than 2003's HULK, which I found hard to believe. Still, a lot of these studio's expect to earn back the expense and make decent profit domestically, not relying on international, too. I mean, SUPERMAN RETURNS worldwide eventually saw a modest profit, but WB saw it as such a failure that it crippled virtually any franchise that wasn't Batman. THE INCREDIBLE HULK was a better Hulk movie than Ang Lee's version, but scored less in U.S. grosses (plus, Ed Norton was unhappy about some of the edited scenes and that took some promotion away). If TIH did well for the studio, I am glad. I liked that film.

Animation quality hasn't been a major concern for Marvel cartoons for a little while. FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN both had/have great animation. WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN is fine for the most part. Hell, even the MTV SPIDER-MAN show's strength was the animation. More money is being put into the few domestic animation products left, which usually ups the standard for shows. I don't expect choppy, jerky animation circa the last seasons of SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES. From the poster shown above, Iron Man's helmet was my biggest concern. Yeah, Thor is about as huge as Hulk, but in a way I don't mind; Thor should be massive.

My biggest concern is the production team. Yost has his moments, but hasn't really produced anything that really pushed the envelope so far; neither has Nieli. They've been behind good but not great works. AVENGERS: WGH should and needs to be more than a typical team cartoon. It needs to be excellent. It needs to push that boundary every episode.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think this kind of goes with the sort of lukewarm reception to the Hulk movies.

I mean it was a good creative/business move. Just scrap Gamma Corps and put all that energy into The Avengers cartoon that we all want, which will still have the Hulk plus a lot of other big franchise characters.

I'm not too upset about the loss of Gamma Corp. I mean, Avengers has so much more potential, and it's the chance to finally and hopefully give us a great ongoing Avengers animated show.

 

[Syncos]

I heard conflicting reports about INCREDIBLE HULK's earnings. Some people believed it cost more to make and promote than 2003's HULK, which I found hard to believe. Still, a lot of these studio's expect to earn back the expense and make decent profit domestically, not relying on international, too. I mean, SUPERMAN RETURNS worldwide eventually saw a modest profit, but WB saw it as such a failure that it crippled virtually any franchise that wasn't Batman. THE INCREDIBLE HULK was a better Hulk movie than Ang Lee's version, but scored less in U.S. grosses (plus, Ed Norton was unhappy about some of the edited scenes and that took some promotion away). If TIH did well for the studio, I am glad. I liked that film.

Animation quality hasn't been a major concern for Marvel cartoons for a little while. FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN both had/have great animation. WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN is fine for the most part. Hell, even the MTV SPIDER-MAN show's strength was the animation. More money is being put into the few domestic animation products left, which usually ups the standard for shows. I don't expect choppy, jerky animation circa the last seasons of SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES. From the poster shown above, Iron Man's helmet was my biggest concern. Yeah, Thor is about as huge as Hulk, but in a way I don't mind; Thor should be massive.

My biggest concern is the production team. Yost has his moments, but hasn't really produced anything that really pushed the envelope so far; neither has Nieli. They've been behind good but not great works. AVENGERS: WGH should and needs to be more than a typical team cartoon. It needs to be excellent. It needs to push that boundary every episode.

My stats are coming from boxofficemojo.com which for the most part is pretty reliable, especially since things are said and done. The problem with TIH is that they didn't pull in a significantly bigger audience than Hulk which is what they were hoping for. It still preformed better, dispite the stigma of the first movie. (TIH made $134million domestic, $262world and Hulk made $132million with $245world) Anywho, that's not the point.

C'mon man. Of course the animation was great in the MTV series, it was done by the late Mainframe entertainment. Those dudes were innovators.

I really like the style they're going with here. Seems like a cross between timm and samurai jack, almost. As I've said before, It'll be interesting to see it in motion.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The animation in the MTV Spider-Man series was much worse than the animation Mainframe used for Beast Machines, I thought. I don't know if it's because they had to handle normal people instead of funky-shaped robots or if they just hadn't quite mastered the cel-shaded 3D style yet, but MTV Spidey was a big step backwards for Mainframe to me.

 

[Dread]

I think this kind of goes with the sort of lukewarm reception to the Hulk movies.

I mean it was a good creative/business move. Just scrap Gamma Corps and put all that energy into The Avengers cartoon that we all want, which will still have the Hulk plus a lot of other big franchise characters.

I'm not too upset about the loss of Gamma Corp. I mean, Avengers has so much more potential, and it's the chance to finally and hopefully give us a great ongoing Avengers animated show.

I agree. While it has been over 12 years since the Hulk got a solo cartoon series, investing money into a franchise when you are unsure of the reception is an error; WB may have made it with LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, which was cancelled after 2 seasons; yes, Kid's WB became the CW 4Kids, but if it was a ratings blockbuster, it probably would have gotten at least another season (TMNT continues to truck onward on two networks airing a good 2-3 hours worth of episodes, in comparison). The Hulk has had lukewarm movie reception twice in a row (even if TIH was a better film overall and was able to make a profit before hitting DVD, where it is selling very well) so investing in a solo cartoon was seen as a risk.

Besides, is there a lack of Hulk animation lately? He featured heavily into ULTIMATE AVENGERS and was used in promos for UA2 despite only appearing for maybe 35 seconds total. He was inserted into NEXT AVENGERS for that appeal, and is getting an entire HULK VS. and soon to be PLANET HULK DTV's. I am sure that also factored into why a GAMMA CORPS show was not a wise move. Hulk draws interest in DTV's, but a series was not tenable. The Hulk is also a frequent guest star in shows, such as FF:WGH and W&TXM.

I agree that focusing on an Avengers show is the best strategy. It is the show the fans desire more, and as Hulk was part of the founding team, he could be included as well. While I cringe at the idea of the Avengers fighting his rogues endlessly, there always was Absorbing Man, who is a rogue of both Hulk and Thor.

While some accuracy to the comics would be nice, JL was hardly accurate to the founding team or adventure (Starro never appeared in JL/U, only in BATMAN BEYOND, and he wasn't even called Starro), and Hulk's popularity may be too much to resist. Besides, one "unstable" member often provides drama. The Hulk may have left after Avengers #2 but he continued to be loosely involved in their adventures for several issues afterwards, so there is enough leeway to involve him for a full season. I am sure if the show is of good quality in terms of action and writing, and has enough nods to the comics without following every script word for word, it should be fine.

Action is also a worry. No show that Chris Yost has worked on has been known for action. He and Nieli have struggled with getting capable storyboarders for that. AVENGERS: WGH needs action, and high quality action. It can't simply be of average forgettable quality like FF:WGH. They literally need to study JLU and say, "how can we top this?" Because it can be done. Even on a network TV show.

It should be noted that historically, Hulk has never had any cartoon show that lasted beyond 2 entire seasons. Technically, neither have the Fantastic Four, although they have had more shows in general.

My stats are coming from boxofficemojo.com which for the most part is pretty reliable, especially since things are said and done. The problem with TIH is that they didn't pull in a significantly bigger audience than Hulk which is what they were hoping for. It still preformed better, dispite the stigma of the first movie. (TIH made $134million domestic, $262world and Hulk made $132million with $245world) Anywho, that's not the point.

C'mon man. Of course the animation was great in the MTV series, it was done by the late Mainframe entertainment. Those dudes were innovators.

I really like the style they're going with here. Seems like a cross between timm and samurai jack, almost. As I've said before, It'll be interesting to see it in motion.

Interesting about the box office; so THE INCREDIBLE HULK did slightly better overseas than HULK did. I guess the enjoyment of action and a lack of close-ups of desert rocks is universal.

It is hard judging the character models until they move sometimes. A lot of people were concerned about "Cheeks" Galloway's models for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, but they animate very well.

The animation in the MTV Spider-Man series was much worse than the animation Mainframe used for Beast Machines, I thought. I don't know if it's because they had to handle normal people instead of funky-shaped robots or if they just hadn't quite mastered the cel-shaded 3D style yet, but MTV Spidey was a big step backwards for Mainframe to me.

You have to keep in mind when Mainframe did that show in 2003, we were comparing the animation to SPIDER-MAN: TAS and SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED. Of course it stood out. Aside for the purple pants; only Banner can pull it off.

Unfortunately, MTV strangled the creativity out of the shows with demands, and the writers struggled with that, as well as "embargoes" against who could and couldn't be used.

Thankfully, SS-M is the Spidey show we have waited some 40 years for. I just hope it can last at least 5 seasons like the 90's show, so that show can finally be put to bed.

 

[TheVileOne]

Making an animated MTV Spider-man series at all that had to loosely follow the movies was pretty ridiculous.

Also, Yost did a good enough job with the action on Hulk VS.

Hulk's overseas BO wasn't that much better. Also considering it's 5 years later, the differences due to inflation make it less impressive.

I think the cancellation of Gamma Corp. just cements that the Hulk movies just aren't successful enough to warrant it's own TV show. Kevin Feige announced that they are putting Hulk aside for a while and doing other movies first. While Marvel says they are happy with how the movie did, the movie still did not do well enough to warrant an Incredible Hulk sequel while Iron man 2, Thor, Cap, and Avengers are in the works. I think if the movie did bigger business, no question there would be TIH 2 talk right now plus the Gamma Corp. show.

Dread is right that Hulk has appeared in plenty of Marvel animation, and it's time to do something that fans have been wanting for a long time. Avengers as a movie franchise has no baggage like the Hulk franchise sort of does right now. This show will hopefully finally put the terrible memories of United They Stand to rest.

Also, I hope the action isn't all like JL. the problem with season 1 of JL is that all the show was. There was virtually no character development, virtually just nonstop supervillain brawls and some bickering. It was really hard to like characters in the first season like Hawk-Girl and GL since they are just angry, bossy jerks most of the time. I think there is a lot of room for improvement to make this show far above JL/JLU and Wolverine And The X-men, and Spectacular Spider-man.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, they'll have a better opportunity for character development with Avengers, for sure. Everybody already knows who most of the JLA are, which is why very little time was put into developing them. The only mysteries were John Stewart and Hawkgirl. Avengers has Wasp, Hank Pym, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and a bunch of other characters no one outside of hardcore comic fans have even heard of.

 

[Dread]

Making an animated MTV Spider-man series at all that had to loosely follow the movies was pretty ridiculous.

It was originally due to be based on Ultimate Spider-Man, which was why Brian M. Bendis was one of the producers involved. But once 2002's SPIDER-MAN film grossed nearly a billion worldwide, they switched gears, probably for a faster cash-in. MTV's inane demands to the show (Peter, Harry, and MJ had to be in EVERY episode, no "old people", and constant guest voices from music people like Eve and Rob Zombie, etc) pretty much reduced Bendis to a token role, and the rest of the writers didn't measure up. Plus, as the series was moved as a "sort of" sequel, it couldn't have Green Goblin, nor could it have Dr. Octopus, or allow Peter & MJ to develop beyond friends.

I WILL say that the MTV Spider-Man show had the coolest version of Kraven the Hunter, though. Cool redesign and voiced by Michael "Worf" Dorn. And the fight sequences were actually pretty damn good. It was the writing that fell flat, though, and without that, MTV Spider-Man really couldn't overcome mediocrity. I am glad we have something better in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN.

Also, Yost did a good enough job with the action on Hulk VS.

I haven't watched that. It won't be out until Jan. 2009. Once it is, though, then we can judge. The previews do make it look impressive.

Hulk's overseas BO wasn't that much better. Also considering it's 5 years later, the differences due to inflation make it less impressive.

I think the cancellation of Gamma Corp. just cements that the Hulk movies just aren't successful enough to warrant it's own TV show. Kevin Feige announced that they are putting Hulk aside for a while and doing other movies first. While Marvel says they are happy with how the movie did, the movie still did not do well enough to warrant an Incredible Hulk sequel while Iron man 2, Thor, Cap, and Avengers are in the works. I think if the movie did bigger business, no question there would be TIH 2 talk right now plus the Gamma Corp. show.

Yeah, I liked THE INCREDIBLE HULK but the public didn't like it or the prior HULK enough to really catapult them into stardom. The Hulk may be well known in popular culture, if only for the cult appeal of the 70's TV show, but that isn't enough to push worldwide grosses into $300 million, which is a major benchmark for a modern "summer blockbuster" that takes at least $150-200 million to make. It is selling well on DVD, though, and hopefully will find it's audience.

That said, I am not the biggest fan of the Hulk. I often find his status quo boring and he is usually physically unbeatable in a fight, which gets old quickly. Even Superman can be challenged with Kryptonite or Magic, but few things weaken Hulk for long. While there have been plenty of Hulk adventures that played with more unique things, like Joe Fixit, The Pantheon Era or, more recently, Planet Hulk, but in the end it always boils down to simple Hulk who talks in 3rd person, being chased by the military, and that can only be interesting for so long on a network TV cartoon show. The Hulk has a simple schtick, but it is one that wears out quickly. Thus, he often gets more mileage when paired with other superheroes. Even the last Hulk cartoon, circa 1995-1996 from UPN, relied HEAVILY on guest appearances; Thor, Thing, Iron Man (and War Machine), Ghost Rider, Sasquatch, and She-Hulk showed up in the first season alone. Dr. Strange popped up in the abysmal season 2.

The other big problem is Hulk only has so many "decent" enemies. Aside for Leader, Abomination, Wendigo, and Absorbing Man, who is left? Not too many who are decent or recognizable.

Pairing him with the Avengers, so long as he doesn't overshadow the show with his own plots, could work out a lot better for him.

Dread is right that Hulk has appeared in plenty of Marvel animation, and it's time to do something that fans have been wanting for a long time. Avengers as a movie franchise has no baggage like the Hulk franchise sort of does right now. This show will hopefully finally put the terrible memories of United They Stand to rest.

As cynical as I am, with standards as low as "be better than AVENGERS:UTS", I am fairly certain it will exceed that. The worst episodes of X-MEN EVOLUTION, FF:WGH or TEEN TITANS were light years ahead of the BEST episodes from A:UTS.

The comics rely on the Avengers line more than the X-Men at this point, or at least as much. The movies are leading up to it. All the fans want it. Yeah, this is the right move; so right I doubted it would ever come.

Sure, by the time it hits the airwaves, I'll be nearly 30, but whatever.

Also, I hope the action isn't all like JL. the problem with season 1 of JL is that all the show was. There was virtually no character development, virtually just nonstop supervillain brawls and some bickering. It was really hard to like characters in the first season like Hawk-Girl and GL since they are just angry, bossy jerks most of the time. I think there is a lot of room for improvement to make this show far above JL/JLU and Wolverine And The X-men, and Spectacular Spider-man.

The first season of JUSTICE LEAGUE did get in some character lines and interaction. If anything, the plots were kept simple so you had a few minutes of talking in-between action. Once it shifted to JLU, so much got packed into every 22 minutes that it got insane, even with storyarcs. That said, JL/JLU may be the best team cartoon out there, but it certainly did need to make some trial-and-error type moves.

AVENGERS: WGH has some hindsight to avoid a lot of those mistakes.

 

[Dread]

Well, they'll have a better opportunity for character development with Avengers, for sure. Everybody already knows who most of the JLA are, which is why very little time was put into developing them. The only mysteries were John Stewart and Hawkgirl. Avengers has Wasp, Hank Pym, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and a bunch of other characters no one outside of hardcore comic fans have even heard of.

Plus, JUSTICE LEAGUE had the advantage of coming in after a decade of Batman & Superman cartoons to build it up, as well as provide introductions and fleshing to Batman, Superman, the Green Lantern mythos, and to a very small degree, the Flash. Timm & Co. could hit the ground running based on the continuity they already built up by the time the BATMAN/SUPERMAN ADVENTURES show wrapped up, as well as BATMAN BEYOND.

I actually doubt if Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver will be available, considering they have usually been considered "X-Characters" after the year 2000 in terms of cartoons. Quicksilver is in W&TXM right now, and both were members of the Brotherhood in X-MEN EVOLUTION. The X-Men are owned by FOX and including them may be a TV rights nightmare. It was fine when A:UTS aired on then FoxKids, but that was 9 years ago. I think it was telling that they had zero mention or allusion even in NEXT AVENGERS, which had Vision in an extended cameo. And that was a DTV, not as messy as network airing rights. Some could argue it makes little sense, but it also makes little sense that Kingpin is considered a "Daredevil character" and thus not available for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, despite the DD franchise being dead in the water (in terms of films or cartoons). Nor did any of the "Bat" or "Aquaman" Embargoes make sense considering ALL were owned by WB ANYWAY. But network suits always get in the way of stuff.

I think Vision should be a lock at some point.

Yost at the very least liked Ant-Man enough to have him guest star in FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH when probably no one demanded it. It was a typical shrinking episode and some could argue Hank didn't do much aside for one quick rescue, but it wasn't bad. I just hated his soul patch, which he doesn't have here.

 

[The Question]

But, Vision without Scarlet Witch is like, well, having a socially awkward character integrating into a social life without the person who helped them to open up and attempt to be social in the first place in the story. In fact, that's exactly what it it.

 

[Dread]

But, Vision without Scarlet Witch is like, well, having a socially awkward character integrating into a social life without the person who helped them to open up and attempt to be social in the first place in the story. In fact, that's exactly what it it.

I agree. It is a major problem. Scarlet Witch, quite frankly, is better known as an Avenger than as a member of the Brotherhood, at least to me and the majority of fans. Of course, the "mainstream" audience may be used to her showing up in X-Men cartoons so that ideal may be skewed now. I mean, she joined the Avengers after the book was barely more than a year old, circa 1964-1965 and even to this day is loosely tied to the franchise, even if she's been ruined a bit as a character. She returned to the Brotherhood for spurts of time in the 90's, but that was more of a footnote to her Avengers career.

Frankly, Disassembled was a tragedy for her. It took a heroine who had been one of the longest serving Avengers and turned her into a plot convenient waste.

I doubt the issue is Yost or Nieli. The issue will come to who owns the rights to her and whether she can be used outside an X-Men cartoon, which she hasn't since 1999. If some exec says, "Tough ****, she is part of the X-Men and we can't have any mention of that in another network", that will be that. Part of the only reason she was a part of AVENGERS: UTS was because they were on the FoxKids line-up, as was X-MEN. And even then, her father Magneto was never outright mentioned.

If Wanda is unavailable, they might have to link Vision with another female character, much as John Stewart was linked to Hawkgirl when the pair barely met twice in the comics.

In an ideal world, it shouldn't be a problem. Over the past 45 years, Wanda spent maybe 5-6 tied to the X-Men world, and that includes her going evil again in the 90's. Most of her history is with the Avengers. So long as Magneto is not specifically mentioned by name for legal reasons (he could be alluded to, a fair compromise, much as Robin in TEEN TITANS would allude to Batman without having him appear or be mentioned by name). It is a shame such divisions must occur, but TV/movie rights are a tricky wicket.

 

[TheVileOne]

I honestly see no reason why we can't see Scarlett Witch on Avengers.

Nick Fury and Hulk appear in Wolverine and The X-men. Hulk's been in the Fantastic Four series. Cap and Fury were in X-men evolution.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I honestly see no reason why we can't see Scarlett Witch on Avengers.

Nick Fury and Hulk appear in Wolverine and The X-men. Hulk's been in the Fantastic Four series. Cap and Fury were in X-men evolution.

So was Ant-Man

 

[Dread]

I honestly see no reason why we can't see Scarlett Witch on Avengers.

Nick Fury and Hulk appear in Wolverine and The X-men. Hulk's been in the Fantastic Four series. Cap and Fury were in X-men evolution.

Certain characters and franchises are owned by other companies and others were retained by Marvel.

For example; Spider-Man CANNOT guest star another character's superhero show because he is owned by Sony. Other heroes owned by Marvel (or who Sony gets the rights to) can guest star on a Spider-Man cartoon. Legally, Captain America or Hulk could guest star on SS-M. But Spider-Man couldn't appear on a Hulk or Captain America show, or on AVENGERS: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES. Much as while Hulk is now free to appear in WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN, you won't see Wolverine appear in A:WGH.

DTV's are another beast, although you will notice none involve Spider-Man, as Sony may be the bigger fish compared to Fox, or they may have scored a better deal back in the 90's and Marvel couldn't bargain a better one (originally, Marvel only got about 5% of whatever Sony made on a Spider media product; so when SPIDER-MAN in 2002 scored over a half billion domestic, Marvel only saw a pittance). In recent years, Marvel has been able to bargain better media deals with more control with other characters, but franchises like Spider-Man, the X-Men and to a degree Fantastic Four, as well as others like Daredevil, Punisher, and Ghost Rider, were sold for a time to other companies. As the years go buy, certain companies can let the rights expire back to Marvel (as may be happening with Daredevil), but the big ones like X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN involve the big boys.

In every multimedia product since 1999, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver have been considered X-characters. I could be wrong and acquiring the rights to use Wanda could be a cinch. But as WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN will be debuting in America in 2009 and for all we know could get more seasons, and that show will have Scarlet Witch on it, would Fox be able to prevent Wanda from appearing on another franchise show on what could be another network?

Common sense would say that Wanda should be available for an Avengers show since over 60% of her character history revolves around them; Fox may not want someone to mention Magneto on any network not owned by Fox and that is reasonable; there are ways to allude to her patronage without outright naming or showing Magneto. But think of this; how many cartoons after the 90's allowed mention of mutants that weren't X-Men shows? Precisely zero.

Again, the rules to DTV's are different.

Hopefully, though, it won't be a problem. I am just braced for there being one, and Yost & Nieli having to improvise with character interaction for Vision.

 

[The Question]

I suppose they could give Vision a parental relationship with Hank and Jan, as they are his grandparents in a sense, which would be all well and good. But Wanda and Vision's relationship has a lot of potential for good storytelling.