The camp has been erased for a reason.

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I could imagen Brave and Bold and it would be truly outrageous. =D Ofcourse all you want is some Dark cartoon that wouldn't be for children at all, but that won't never happen. ;o Honestly you most likely haven't given this show a chance at all and just do arrogant and ignorant posts where you claim the grimdark stuff is the only way to go, i mean we really need to have scared little children for saturday mornings now do we?

Yea he's THE "DARK" KNIGHT!!!!!!! kids aren't why this movie made MILLIONS and hit a BILLION. It was a general audience who respect the correct translation of what they percieve would be BATMAN. Brave and Bold is no diff than Shumacher's **** as I've watched many episodes on and off just to keep up to date with the on goings of Batman since there really isn't much else they got going with him. They killed him in the comic for now so i don't give a **** about that no more until they bring him back and it NEVER works. Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, and now Batman...bagh!!!! overated death stories that are just mundane and never last.

When I was a Kid Transformers seemed more mature on themes and so did Slilver Hawks and Thunder Cats which were actually real deep as I've gone back and caught episodes. The Turtle movies were pretty dark for their time or at least the first one where Raph is dying in a bath tub and the themes of gang violence etc. We just live in an age of lower grade point averages, POP like cartoons where everything is bubblegummish and stale. Kids don't hink anymore and at least they had the guts to air AVATAR: The Last ir Bender which was some real dope **** on spirituality, politocs, religion, and mind elevation. Back then they didn't play to our senses they made us play to theirs.

Nowadays everything is dumbed down and made as if children were all ******ed and need eye candy to make them go YIPEE!!!! hell almost EVERY kid back then watched Rambo (R) and Robocop (R), till games and cartoons spawned off both of them cause we could handle that **** but look at how they treat kids now...like America just got STUPID!!!!!!

Even James Bond said NO MORE!!!! I'm actually tired of Batman cartoons the way of the big chin and huge chest theme. That's all been DONE!!!! I want to see a more slick style cartoon with superior animation like Cowboy Bebop or Samurai Champloo. Doesn't have to look anime but just change that whole thing up. it's twenty year old thing that needs an upgrade. Not backwards to camp but up more. Actually wouldn't mind seeing the Batman from NEW FRONTIER have his own series.
 
Frank Miller's drawings may not be where they were at due to the illness he went down with at the time of making it, but the literature and the deep ideas that only select intellects can acknowledge were profound. Like The Matrix 1,2, & 3. Only people who hated 3 were simple minded people who didn't see the depth of knowledge and elevation in those worlds and that's ok cause the average population is simple minded and like to be sheeps led by shepards instead of learning how to be a CHRIST themselves they would rather be a CHRISTian and miss the whole point which is what many did with DKSB. It's really ok, just some people aren't meant to think on that plateau. Some go to church and some got church in them and some go to elect a leader while some are leaders themselves...
Don't give me that "you didn't like it because you're not smart enough" crap. The first Matrix was a good movie in most senses, but the sequels were mediocre at best. The dialogue was filled with tautological statements that were ultimately empty, but used big words to give the pretense of holding actual meaning. The characters became surprisingly one-note, where the ambiance and "mood" of the films somehow became more important than making any of the actual humans in the story feel like actual humans. The first Matrix movie made real philosophical statements; the sequels took several random philosophical ideals, threw them together with post modernist trappings, phrased them in circular dialogue, and used them to pad the movies out between underwhelming the action scenes.

And quite frankly, this is Frank Miller we're talking about, here. He writes with all the subtlety of a brick thrown through a window.
 
Yea he's THE "DARK" KNIGHT!!!!!!! kids aren't why this movie made MILLIONS and hit a BILLION. It was a general audience who respect the correct translation of what they percieve would be BATMAN.

To be honest i'd say the general audience does think that Adam West Batman is the ****, but they knew this movie was going to rock the pants out of people, and Heath Ledger died. Also why on earth would you want a cartoon out of this? you want your little son to see a glascow smiled clown mass butchering people? Remember this is what B:TAS came up with Joker in the cartoon world by having the laughing gas since they couldn't have Joker kill people, you want Dark Knight clown to be censored too? ;o Also what kinda cartoon would it be when you can barely have any villains in the show due to the realism.

Brave and Bold is no diff than Shumacher's **** as I've watched many episodes on and off just to keep up to date with the on goings of Batman since there really isn't much else they got going with him. They killed him in the comic for now so i don't give a **** about that no more until they bring him back and it NEVER works. Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, and now Batman...bagh!!!! overated death stories that are just mundane and never last.

Then you clearly watched the different show i did. Batman in this show is serious yet he can pull a joke or two, hell he even did the "I'm Batman!" line far better than Val Kilmer and George Clooney put together, this guy is serious as hell.


When I was a Kid Transformers seemed more mature on themes and so did Slilver Hawks and Thunder Cats which were actually real deep as I've gone back and caught episodes. The Turtle movies were pretty dark for their time or at least the first one where Raph is dying in a bath tub and the themes of gang violence etc. We just live in an age of lower grade point averages, POP like cartoons where everything is bubblegummish and stale. Kids don't hink anymore and at least they had the guts to air AVATAR: The Last ir Bender which was some real dope **** on spirituality, politocs, religion, and mind elevation. Back then they didn't play to our senses they made us play to theirs.

Well you can blame your parents for complaining so much that cartoons got so much censored. :p


Even James Bond said NO MORE!!!! I'm actually tired of Batman cartoons the way of the big chin and huge chest theme. That's all been DONE!!!! I want to see a more slick style cartoon with superior animation like Cowboy Bebop or Samurai Champloo. Doesn't have to look anime but just change that whole thing up. it's twenty year old thing that needs an upgrade. Not backwards to camp but up more. Actually wouldn't mind seeing the Batman from NEW FRONTIER have his own series.

So you want a Batman from new frontiers with a kid hanging around with him? (Robin) how campy can you get! ;)
 
Okay, this guy knows NOTHING about Batman. Nothing.
Naught.
Nay.
Nada.
Nothing.
Zero.
Zip.
Zilch.
Finito!

Seriously, all he has done is cite the same freakin' three people over and over and over: Nolan, Burton and Miller. He obviously knows nothing of Dennis O'Neill, Dick Sprang, Bob Haney, Bill Finger, Steve Englehart, Neal Adams or any other truly great comic writer or artist who helped shape the mythos.

He's just some kid who's pretending to know everything about Batman but failing miserably because all he's done is read Miller, watch Burton and Nolan, and then complained whenever something remotely different to that vision has come. He's a fake, just some random who wants to fan-wank over a MINORITY of Batman stories that fit his description of what Batman is.

I only mentioned the main three that brought Batman to ultimate success in all genres. Miller is what all Batman comics or novels will always be measured by as he won AWARDS for that ****. Yes there have been so many trully great writers and such before Nolan was even born, but the peak performance of The Dark Knight started with Miller which Burton decided to use as a blue print followed by nolan who has brought that franchise to the top of the world. he made batman be something you didn't fringe at but rose up with excitment to talk about. At the end of the millenium, batman was practically dead and had lost much respect from fans of all the mediums and such. The comics were mediocre, the cartoons had lost steam and the movies had almost killed the legacy until WB gave it a new beginning which struggled due to the bad taste that many had. After word of mouth gave life back to the universe of gotham, people just couldn't wait for TDK especially after it was one of the highest ranked movies of all time in reviews, and every record broken that it did. Burton was what The movies had become till shumacher ****ed that up and Nolan had to come back and re imagine it.

Nolan just made many of us give two ****s again intead of a lingering one **** that many fans had. I remember before begins when these forums were all spiderman, and xmen...Now we all have Batman again as the number one figure of comic books. Even superman has taken a back seat with the getting weird Smallville now.

I do know my Batman history and writers, also I appologize for downing any of ya'lls experiences with the franchise, I just have always been intrigued with the darker takes. Some people will always love the turtles with Irises in their eyeballs and robot foot soldiers with aliens and **** while I will always like the rendition of the first movie the best besides a rat that learns kung fu in a cage for no reason LOL, but yea since DKR I've never gone back to light hearted or cheesy aspects of the mythos. I moved forward like many of the world did to a Batman who felt more comfortable in his skin finally as the biff and pow dissapeared and we got a Joker that was scary and wasn't no JOKE!!!!!. The Killing Joke was great too and the Long Halloween which I didn't mention cause Nolan straight used both books to interpret his universe of Batman.
 
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To be honest i'd say the general audience does think that Adam West Batman is the ****, but they knew this movie was going to rock the pants out of people, and Heath Ledger died. Also why on earth would you want a cartoon out of this? you want your little son to see a glascow smiled clown mass butchering people? Remember this is what B:TAS came up with Joker in the cartoon world by having the laughing gas since they couldn't have Joker kill people, you want Dark Knight clown to be censored too? ;o Also what kinda cartoon would it be when you can barely have any villains in the show due to the realism.

Actually the general audience mocks the Adam west **** and makes absolute fun of it in every way possible. nostalgia doesn't mean something was good. That show is AWFUL now and did not stand the test of time were as Burton's did. You can read DKR and it's still THE ****!!!! You make a point bout TDK not having a cartoon version but the aspect of no villains??? just make them more reasonable and realistic rather than stupid hokey crap like this new clock king garbage. WTF??? Did u watch the mid 90s show???? It was perfect for mixing kid friendly and realism for the adults to get into too or the smarter teens.


Then you clearly watched the different show i did. Batman in this show is serious yet he can pull a joke or two, hell he even did the "I'm Batman!" line far better than Val Kilmer and George Clooney put together, this guy is serious as hell.

But BATMAN isn't cool because of him and himself, it's his environment and world he interacts with that make him cool. He could have dressed up as Batman in TDK to go and do his daily investigating but would have beaten the concept of FEAR and DARKNESS as his weapon which this show never fails in ****ing up. He's never using shadows as his tool and FEAR????...LOL. It is a parody of Batman and poking fun of whatit actually is so it's ok like Joel Schumacher with those butt shots...poking fun at the subject matter. I'm understanding that now. The show is just for kicks and a parody in itself. You want the real thing then watch TDK, read the Graphic Novels, or download Batman TAS. This show is a great big JOKE!!!!


Well you can blame your parents for complaining so much that cartoons got so much censored. :p

not my parents...they actually took responsibility for raising me and did a damn good job. never censored me and I came out just fine. I don't kill folks nor do I commit crimes besides the occasional downloading LOL. Hell, my mom bought me all the Rambos and Terminators, Preditors, and Robocops...lol. Even total Recall was a hit in our house. i was like under 10 when all these dropped. Parents who are **** ups just want to blame anything else they can. My mom never used any of that **** against me. WTF?????!!!!! I remember the Joker saying " come on you SON OF A *****!!!!!!" in Batman '89. bet u this board has even editted that word. LOL

So you want a Batman from new frontiers with a kid hanging around with him? (Robin) how campy can you get!
New Frontiers the MOVIE had no robin. That Batman was the best thing about that cartoon.
 
You know could very easily multi quote every post you've made and debunk 90% of all of it, but quite frankly it wouldnt matter to you because you obviously live in a pigeonholed world and I dont think you're worth the time.

The majority of poeple, general public mind you, when asked about Batman will automatically think of Adam West and the 60's theme. Its pop culture history and also the exposed version of the character. If you think otherwise then you are dilusional. I know alot of people who have never even seen TDK. This movie made so much because of Heath Ledger, plain and simple. If the cat didnt die this would be nowhere near the benchmark it hit. Its true, and the grim and gritty Nolan/Miller nut riders need to accept this. Speaking of Miller, hate to say it, but he's one the most hated people in comics. Hell, even other writers think Miller is the worst thing that ever happened to Batman, as well as thousands of fans. If you get outside your little world you have surounded yourself in you would learn this. I also guess if poeple grew up in the 50's and 60's they arent real Batfans, huh? Because they didnt like the grim and dark Batman, oh wait, that version didnt even exist back then!!!! People like you and "creators" like Miller and Nolan show just how pathetic and lost this world has become.

Oh, and dont group Burton in with Miller and Nolan, he was far from the crap that those 2 have done.
 
Don't give me that "you didn't like it because you're not smart enough" crap. The first Matrix was a good movie in most senses, but the sequels were mediocre at best. The dialogue was filled with tautological statements that were ultimately empty, but used big words to give the pretense of holding actual meaning. The characters became surprisingly one-note, where the ambiance and "mood" of the films somehow became more important than making any of the actual humans in the story feel like actual humans. The first Matrix movie made real philosophical statements; the sequels took several random philosophical ideals, threw them together with post modernist trappings, phrased them in circular dialogue, and used them to pad the movies out between underwhelming the action scenes.

And quite frankly, this is Frank Miller we're talking about, here. He writes with all the subtlety of a brick thrown through a window.

Sorry you don't grasp the depth of the entire matrix world. The whole story was lifted from a book in which the TERMINATOR also borrowed called THE THIRD EYE which is based on many Egyptian mythos. George Lucas also used the ideology of that book as a blueprint to many of his ideals.

Did people even understand how Trinity represented the actually holy TRINITY that the CHRIST (neo) depended on until he realized after the trinity DIED that he was the ONE who could do it all ALONE without anything but what was within him? being blind at the end was the concept of using his inner GOD or spiritual self to guide him when the flesh could no longer do it. There is many more ideas and theories that make it a wonderful world for any philosopher. I am a philosophy and art major so I saw it in a different light. The whole aspect of freedom is only in the mind and neos journey was to prove that fact. We will never be phisically free for we are constraint to death, oxygen, and gravity where as mentally you can do ANYTHING!!!!! Which is also a concept behind batman. Fear is all in the mond and even he conquered it. I love the philosophy that Nolan put effort into with his movies compared to any other translation.
 
You know could very easily multi quote every post you've made and debunk 90% of all of it, but quite frankly it wouldnt matter to you because you obviously live in a pigeonholed world and I dont think you're worth the time.

The majority of poeple, general public mind you, when asked about Batman will automatically think of Adam West and the 60's theme. Its pop culture history and also the exposed version of the character. If you think otherwise then you are dilusional. I know alot of people who have never even seen TDK. This movie made so much because of Heath Ledger, plain and simple. If the cat didnt die this would be nowhere near the benchmark it hit. Its true, and the grim and gritty Nolan/Miller nut riders need to accept this. Speaking of Miller, hate to say it, but he's one the most hated people in comics. Hell, even other writers think Miller is the worst thing that ever happened to Batman, as well as thousands of fans. If you get outside your little world you have surounded yourself in you would learn this. I also guess if poeple grew up in the 50's and 60's they arent real Batfans, huh? Because they didnt like the grim and dark Batman, oh wait, that version didnt even exist back then!!!! People like you and "creators" like Miller and Nolan show just how pathetic and lost this world has become.

Oh, and dont group Burton in with Miller and Nolan, he was far from the crap that those 2 have done.

The world has always been this way from the beginning. This country alone is a epitaph of corruption itself. Founded by SLAVE owners fighting for EQUAL RIGHTS and FREEDOM LOL. yea this world has always been grim and this way. Wow Miller is one of the most HATED guys in comics huh???? LOL. what ****ing world do YOU live in???? Miller was next to the BEST thing that ever happened to Batman and Nolan is the best thing that ever happened BATMAN...money talks, ******** walks!!! Ledger was the soul reason for that success huh? strange that Batman Begins has had more airplay along with Burton's two movies than any of Shumachers garbage and Nolan's is new while Burtons is twenty years old.

I guarantee you we do a poll on campy or Dark Batman DARK will always triumph cause people relate to that more while the campy **** becomes stale after people see right through its corny rigid skeleton.

We want to see heroes take on OUR villains and universe and Nolan got mighty close taking on cops and terrorists... that's what people relate to and want to see. a hero for OUR world. yea gotham is fictional but it's the closest thing to what we have every day when it comes to comic movies and hard ass decisions. The fairy scene was politics in motion. Joker was the terrorist who was evil but with a great intellect and truthful view of the world. Joker finds everything an ironic Joke and plays with it while Batman finds nothing funny about it.

All depends on what you get out of Batman. That universe is deeper that just cool villains and DARK Batman. it could be Dark with no substance but it's hard to make something realistic and have no substance. Most hokey Poke stuff is the true garbage htat is meaningless and adds nothing but a few laughs and smiles. We're not in a time for that. We need apathy and ideas the force people to think like TDK and Watchmen are doing right now. SOme of us are going to love Bale and some unfortunate soul is actually gonna think West was the **** when he that show was the worst thing to happen to comic books.


FRANK MILLER is the worst thing to ever happen to BATMAN????? now that is comedy...LOL

Oh Brandon lee was just as famous as Ledger in death and Bruce Lee was a million times more famous too...but funny their last movies aren't in the top 100 or record breaking as TDK was right????? since ledger was the sole reason...
 
Why can't we just accept that every interpretation of Batman has it's merits? Even Batman & Robin has some good scenes if you stop rolling your eyes long enough to catch them.

The reason I initially balked at this show wasn't so much the lighter tone but the fact that it implied a dumb, bright and flashy 20 minute toy commercial for kids. But, after watching it I see it's very smart, and very respectful to all eras of Batman. It's not the best cartoon ever, and it's far from what I wanted out of it, but it is of high-quality. Even if it's not your cup of tea, you can't be so blinded by the li..err dark to not recognize that.

I definitely prefer the Nolan style of Batman. That heightened reality, gritty but not Frank Miller All-Star EXTREME!!1!one grit, the more plausible situations etc etc. It's my favorite and holds the most potential for serious drama and themes. At least IMHO.

That doesn't mean I think lighter or less deep visions suck. I love me some Adam West. That show is a fun adventure with some damn good laughs, if you can remove the stick that's firmly planted in your ass and realize Batman doesn't have to be dark as night, and hasn't always been that way.

BTAS is also far from Frank Miller or Nolan or whathaveyou, and that's the definitive Batman, IMO.

The more I've read this thread after backing out and just observing casually, the more I've noticed it's become primarily two camps. The ignorant camp that (with most having not even seen it, go figure) calls this show an abomination simply because it's not insanely dark and therefore sucks. Then you have the equally ignorant camp that defends the show by even going as far as saying that Frank Miller and Chris Nolan sucks.

Seriously, refer to my first sentence. The **** is wrong with you guys? This show does not suck. Chris Nolan's Batman sure as a bear ****s in the woods does not suck. They're both excellent interpretations of the same character. They're just different. One's lighter and heavily based off the silver age (which did suck, IMO, but more due to bad writing than tone), the other is considerably more 'adult' and based off the comics of the last 20 years or so. But neither of them are garbage. Quite the opposite.

As for Miller and Burton? The former was great, and the latter just ...meh.
 
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I'm just a more mature yet art loving person who got sucked into comicbooks for the sophisticated aspects that the creaters original layed on the table until The government and different media outlets put censorship on it adding a DUO aspect that actually posed the question if Batman was homosexual or not with the addition of Robin.

Sorry, but you have no idea. Robin was added in 1940 that's YEARS before the Comics COde was established. Before Robin Batman was just a Shadow/Phantom/.../-wannabe, when Robin came the sales rose. And please, READ the early Batman stories. Batman has lots of humour in them. Do your really think Bob Kane's Batman was supposed to be thought-provoking material? No, it was not. It was there to entertain people.

Oh, and read your precious DKR. Batman makes jokes even there.
 
I think we have found our winner of the most extreme one sided batman "fan" of the decade. You have your defenses for what youre version of Batman should be, but thats it, you have so many other things wrong. 60's series is the worst thing that ever happened to Batman comics huh? Read up on your comic book history there buddy. The comics were goofy way before the West showed debute. The silver age of comics which had the sci fi and "campy" stuff started in the 50's, the West show debuted in 1966. Explain that. If it wasnt for the show bringing Batman into pop culture the book would have been cancelled and I highly doubt we would have the comic book industry today because it would have been destroyed if not for the attention that show brought to the medium in general. Yeah, Miller is hated. Watch some comci book documentaries. Miller himself even made a joke about it.

Once again we have another hater here whos so afraid of this style of the character that he wants to erase or neglect 70 years of history.

Now wheres that ignore button?
 
Sorry, but you have no idea. Robin was added in 1940 that's YEARS before the Comics COde was established. Before Robin Batman was just a Shadow/Phantom/.../-wannabe, when Robin came the sales rose. And please, READ the early Batman stories. Batman has lots of humour in them. Do your really think Bob Kane's Batman was supposed to be thought-provoking material? No, it was not. It was there to entertain people.

Oh, and read your precious DKR. Batman makes jokes even there.

With the film adaptation of WATCHMEN on release now I posted sometime last year that the original graphic novel's, as well as TDKR, worst legacy (something Alan Moore himself didn't intend or expect) was somehow convincing a generation of kids(and publishers) that superhero comics could become a nonstop bastion for unpleasant, downbeat, 'realistic' and gritty stories where the escapist elements that drew people to the sub-genre(and comics period) were tossed out of the window.

BATB doesn't downplay the tragedy of Batman's motivations. It also doesn't downplay the one crucial element that has got the character 'over' (to use a pro wrestling term) with different generations of audiences. The fact that he's basically the coolest super-hero of them all:woot:.

The gadgets, the strange villains etc. It's an important reminder and celebration of how multi-faceted this character has been and an ultimate reminder of how fun comics once were before, during (yup I said it) and after they became the scapegoat for all society's ills in the 50's.
 
Sorry you don't grasp the depth of the entire matrix world. The whole story was lifted from a book in which the TERMINATOR also borrowed called THE THIRD EYE which is based on many Egyptian mythos. George Lucas also used the ideology of that book as a blueprint to many of his ideals.
Oh my. A somewhat pretentious response that insults my intelligence. I've never read The Third Eye (which I've heard only the first Matrix film was based off of), thus I don't understand Matrix Reloaded or Matrix Revolutions. I suppose the Wachowskis' superficial plagiarism of someone else's work makes all of the flaws in their movies irrelevant. The Architect used verbal gymnastics to explain a very simple concept, but the horrible way in which that scene was written can be forgiven because the Wachowskis presented the audience with yet another heavy handed discussion of the illusions of choice and control.

Don't even get me started on George Lucas, whose greatest Star Wars film was scripted by someone else.

Did people even understand how Trinity represented the actually holy TRINITY that the CHRIST (neo) depended on until he realized after the trinity DIED that he was the ONE who could do it all ALONE without anything but what was within him? being blind at the end was the concept of using his inner GOD or spiritual self to guide him when the flesh could no longer do it. There is many more ideas and theories that make it a wonderful world for any philosopher. I am a philosophy and art major so I saw it in a different light. The whole aspect of freedom is only in the mind and neos journey was to prove that fact. We will never be phisically free for we are constraint to death, oxygen, and gravity where as mentally you can do ANYTHING!!!!! Which is also a concept behind batman. Fear is all in the mond and even he conquered it. I love the philosophy that Nolan put effort into with his movies compared to any other translation.
Firstly, I hope you find something worthwhile to do with those philosophy and art degrees in your future. I really do.

Secondly, you haven't said anything about The Dark Knight Strikes Again. You brought up The Matrix to draw a comparison between people not being able to grasp that franchise as well as The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Lo and behold, you just tried to compare it to Nolan's Batman movies, which I'm not even going to deny are quality.

The truth is, Frank Miller isn't an amazing writer. He's not some deep philosophical thinker. People credit his Dark Knight series for bringing darkness back to the Batman franchise, but not much else because it just wasn't that damn good. Hell, I've also read Batman Year One; great Jim Gordon story, mediocre Batman story. Let's also discuss All Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder, which is also dark, but employs dialogue and plotting so terrible that I'd rather watch an old Adam West episode.
 
Shhh, don't tell him that Batman's character arc in the New Frontier story was to lighten up so he didn't scare children, which was why Robin appeared about half-way through and Batman's mask got rounder eye holes and shorter ears.
 
I am so sad I missed godman get his panties in a twist about a brooding batman. I am glad many of the fans in the threads I have come to known all agree that Batman is best under different variations. It is like we all like certain types of cheese and argue over which one is better but we all like cheese and can agree that one type of cheese isn't enough. Some of us want blue and some of us want American.
 
I am just so happy they are making a musical episode.. YES GODMAN A GODDAMN MUSIC EPISODE! The dark knight will sing and dance, sullying your vision of him making you no longer the cool guy at school.
 
Batman can sing, but they have to be dark, manly songs about how he watched his parents die.
 
I was joking, but Batman singing the Blues is just too damn awesome to not happen. The Brave and the Bold has yet to let me down, so here's hoping.
 
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