The camp has been erased for a reason.

[spiderfan970]

Whoever doesn't like camp isn't a real Batman fan.

hallelujah, amen.

 

[Syncos]

Case and point, how many people watched the movie Batman and Robin starring, Clooney and O'Donnell. Hardly anyone. That movie, with all it's special effects was meant to attract children. LOL...well, guess what folks. Children flocked to watch the Jurassic Park & Star Wars trilogy, but not Batman and Robin.

Hardly anyone? The movie made $240million in 1997. Lots of people saw it, junior.

 

[baerrtt]

You have to wonder about fanboys who want things that were/are primarily aimed at children/family audiences to 'grow' up with them to the extent they conveniently forget the simple, genuine joy their love/hobby gave them when they were kids.

Irrespective of the accomplishments of THE DARK KNIGHT Batman could not survive all these years in the comics/multimedia if his entire characterisation hinged on him always being a seriously angry mortal (to coin Jonathan Nolan's phrase) just as, once upon a time, the campy character that graced the comics in the 50/60s pre O'Neill creatively couldn't be the end all despite the accomplishments of the BATMAN tv series.

What we have is balance with movies/animated shows that are exploring the many different sides to Batman historically (just as the comics themselves have done in the last 2 years). And that's how it should be.

 

[Parkdaledude]

*sighs*

I swear the selfishness of some fans is too outrageous to even seem real sometimes. Do you understand that young children deserve a chance at becoming fans too?

Let me tell you when I became a Batman fan what got me into the character were reruns of the Filmation cartoon and the Adam West series. Those were campy as hell but I thought they were lots of fun. Burton's movie hadn't even been released yet and guess what a year after that I started buying Batman comics with my own money. I appreciate the memories of those programs even though now at 25 it's not my ideal interpretation of the character and his world.

What does this even mean

"And after The Dark Knight he deserves a better and serious cartoon series."

Why? I mean maybe some parents may not *gasp* want their children exposed to something "serious" and a "serious" cartoon will bore some kids too. TDK is a PG-13 borderline R movie and while my parents never censored me (first 2 movies I saw at the flicks were R and I was only 5) I understand and respect that some parents don't want their children exposed to something like that.

So it makes sense that a cartoon wasn't modeled after that tone. We already had two consecutive Batman cartoons that dealt with exploring the Bat verse with mature undertones and telling a one universe type of story. It's only right to switch it up and not be so stagnant you want a serious Batman toon? last time I checked the seasons of BTAS are available for purchase on DVD.

Fact is Batman isn't so grim and there were times even with the more respected stories from the 70's and 80's were there was a light hearted style to the stories and the character himself. Particularly the Brave and the Bold comic series from the 70's which this series is based on. This wasn't just something strictly from the 50's or 60's contrary to what revisionist history may say.

It's only right that there is something in the mass media that reminds people of that after Batman has become a character so synonamous with "darkness" now that it manages to turn some people off. You don't like the toon cool you have every right not to but to rant about it as if it's a pox on humanity or something is a bit over the top.

I didn't even watch this show and don't know if I will but one thing I will say is this. I am happy that it exists because it guarantees that there will be lots of kids who will be introduced to Batman this way. That means my favorite character gets to live on for more decades on end as these kids grow older and get exposed to more Batman product and that's not a bad thing by any means. Plus it also introduces them to DC characters that have never ever appeared in any cartoon or series before and as a DC fan that makes me happy as it brings more exposure to a lot of great characters and shows the world that DC is more than just Batman and Superman.

^ Great av I will forever be a card carrying member of NO MAAM. Anyway to further elaborate on my previous post camp doesn't always equals crap and when it comes to Batman it was never erased. Last time I checked you could still find hundred of Batman comics with camp elements around, Batman: The Movie has never been pulled from stores, and there are also millions of Batman fans dying for WB and FOX to come to some agreement so that they could get the 60's series on DVD.

Camp is a big element of the Batman mythology like it or not and if it wasn't for camp the character would not have lasted 69 years in publication. It's only fair that it also gets represented when all we have out there repping our character is "teh evil darkness that is so bleak it makes demons cry".

so their idiots because they realise batman has a richer history than you are willing to admit, or maybe you are too young and naive to appreciate this, still the fact remains you cant dictate what you believe the character is to others, batman was meant to be a dark and brooding character by the man who created him, and as time passed the stories became what most consider campy and almost irrelevant, yet the point is the character has existed over sixty years, in many interpretations, and many brilliant writers and artist have come and gone over this time, many in my generation grew on the silver age version of batman and they are still nostalgic about this part of the characters history today, like it or not it hasnt been erased, it never will be, learn to respect what came before, and respect not everyone sees things as you do my young sir.

I think it's time to remind the people that Batman is just an adult man who wears his pyjamas all day.

Well, and did you watch BTAS? He makes lots of jokes there.

Well said my friends.

 

[MrMadisonIV]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_and_the_Bold

this is the comic series that this show is based on. they just changed it so that it focuses more on Batman.

from what I've seen so far, this particular comic book series is not quite as "dark and gloomy" as the rest of the "adult comic books" are.

so it is only natural that the TV show goes a lighter route as well.

News Flash for people whining about how the show isn't "dark" enough....The show is not for you. It's for kids. Get over it.

My 5 year old daughter loves watching the show(that, and Ben 10), and she doesn't know anyone besides Batman on it(she thought Plastic Man's stretching powers were hilarious though). that's good enough for me. I'll watch The Dark Knight again, and watch a DVD of BTAS, and call it a day.

It's funny to me..everything has to be "dark", it has to be "more dark", "it's not dark enough". eveyone is freakin depressed around here. or maybe it is some sort of insecurity with one's adulthood or something, that makes something that isn't "super dark and gloomy and realistic" so undesirable.

 

[JAK®]

If I was a kid, The Dark Knight would have bored the hell out of me. Probably would have frightened me too.

 

[SuGarRush]

Are y'all still arguing about this?


I have seen TDK twice since its release, and only once by choice. It was "Good" not great, not mind-blowingly awesome, but good.


I've watched EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of this show. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH more "FUN"
a novel concept to some of the younger posters here on the boards.

Batman is a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER.
We read them for entertainment and fun. We watch the shows and movies for the same reason.

Pardon me for enjoying great character portrayals, fun animation, well timed humor, and excellent stories. All wrapped in a package that appeals to the entire gamut of age demographics.

You whiners can go back to listening to Nickelback and cutting your wrists in the dark.
I'll be enjoying a high-quality cartoon that does an EXCELLENT job of capturing the spirit and character of the Silver-age greatness.

 

[Gary Glitter]

What's so bad about Camp? Even some of the best comics featuring Batman (Silver Age, my personal favorite, and Bronze Age) comics had a lot of "camp" with Batman making jokes and such. There comes a point when you must realise: Batman isn't the Punisher. Pick up some Denny O'Neil comics or hell "Dark Detective" even!

Camp is a part of Batman, like it or not, if you suck all the camp out of it you get "All Star Batman and Robin" and NO ONE wants that.

 

[shadowdog]

his main villains are a clown in a purple suit and a guy who looks like a penguin



campy

 

[Gary Glitter]

his main villains are a clown in a purple suit and a guy who looks like a penguin



campy

don't forget a man with a Question mark shaped cain, question marks all over his suit, and has a flair for the dramatic.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Are y'all still arguing about this?


I have seen TDK twice since its release, and only once by choice. It was "Good" not great, not mind-blowingly awesome, but good.


I've watched EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of this show. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH more "FUN"
a novel concept to some of the younger posters here on the boards.

Batman is a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER.
We read them for entertainment and fun. We watch the shows and movies for the same reason.

Pardon me for enjoying great character portrayals, fun animation, well timed humor, and excellent stories. All wrapped in a package that appeals to the entire gamut of age demographics.

You whiners can go back to listening to Nickelback and cutting your wrists in the dark.
I'll be enjoying a high-quality cartoon that does an EXCELLENT job of capturing the spirit and character of the Silver-age greatness.

:facepalm

 

[Jochimus]

don't forget a man with a Question mark shaped cain, question marks all over his suit, and has a flair for the dramatic.

Not to mention a walking mound of clay, a human snowman, a plant woman, and a guy who actually turns into a giant bat.

What's particularly pathetic IMO is that Superman should have far more formidable villains given many of their basic concepts - a killer robot (Metallo), a misshapen clone (Bizarro), a life-sucking monster-man (Parasite), a nigh-omnipotent (Mxyzptlk), a war-wacky militant with the same powers as he (Zod), and more alien invaders than you can count from Colu to Apokolips, among others - yet few people beyond comics fans are familiar with any of them except the Bald Megalomaniac Who Has No Powers Whatsoever. Meanwhile, a week ago my five-year-old nephew who's never read a comic book in his life looked at the Batman Lego minifigures on my shelf and was able to identify Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, Two-Face, Bane, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze AND Killer Croc BY NAME.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

Well that's because every major non-comics version of Supes (except for STAS) has been all about ol baldy. Batman's rogues are everywhere, so of course they'll be recognized more. I think it's a shame too, but blame Smallville and Singer...I haven't watched much of the former past the first season, have they even used any of the major players besides Lex? I think I heard Braniac was shown...that's about it.

 

[theMan-Bat]

What's so bad about Camp? Even some of the best comics featuring Batman (Silver Age, my personal favorite, and Bronze Age) comics had a lot of "camp" with Batman making jokes and such. There comes a point when you must realise: Batman isn't the Punisher. Pick up some Denny O'Neil comics or hell "Dark Detective" even!

Camp is a part of Batman, like it or not, if you suck all the camp out of it you get "All Star Batman and Robin" and NO ONE wants that.

There certainly is humor in some of Denny O'Neil's Batman stories, and Steve Englehart's Dark Detective, but they are not campy. Their not making fun of and parodying the character. Camp is a form of parody.

Batman does have a sense of humor. Even in Tim Burton's films Batman wise-cracks. "Eat floor, high fiber."

And Batman makes plenty of jokes and wise-cracks in All-Star Batman & Robin...

And a lot of people want that series, All-Star Batman & Robin is one of DC's top sellers.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Well that's because every major non-comics version of Supes (except for STAS) has been all about ol baldy. Batman's rogues are everywhere, so of course they'll be recognized more. I think it's a shame too, but blame Smallville and Singer...I haven't watched much of the former past the first season, have they even used any of the major players besides Lex? I think I heard Braniac was shown...that's about it.

Tim Burton would have had Brainiac and Doomsday in Superman Lives but Warners were afraid of change so they went with Bryan Singer's Superman Returns with just ol' baldy again. *yawn*

 

[JAK®]

Tim Burton would have had Brainiac and Doomsday in Superman Lives but Warners were afraid of change so they went with Bryan Singer's Superman Returns with just ol' baldy again. *yawn*

Tim Burton would have also had a Superman that couldn't fly, an all-black mechanical costume, a Fortress of Solitude that looked like a sex shop and Nicholas Cage as Superman.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Whoever doesn't like camp isn't a real Batman fan.

Denny O'Neil doesn't like camp. "Camp humor is not my humor, but for those who do enjoy it, blessings."
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/03/21/035314.php
And Neal Adams said "when the imitat—or Bob Kane "ghosts" and Carmine Infantino did it, I really didn't feel that that was Batman, but that was the campy time, when they were doing the TV show. That really wasn't anything that intrigued me. It seemed, in fact, anti-Batman.
You know, when you have a guy walking in his underwear on the street in the middle of the day, and kids go, [whiny kid voice] "Mommy! It's a man in a grey costume—."
http://www.grouchoreviews.com/interviews/70
So Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams aren't real Batman fans?

 

[theMan-Bat]

Tim Burton would have also had a Superman that couldn't fly,

No, in the Burton/Gilroy Superman Lives script he flies. He would have flown in the movie before he dies, then after his resurrection he is virtually powerless and wears the Kryptonian suit.

an all-black mechanical costume,

The plan was that he would wear the classic Superman costume before he dies. "I think the Superman costume will still be the classic costume," Cage said, "because I, like many people, am a fan of Americana and pop culture. I like the shape of the Coca-Cola bottle. I think they should stay true to the Superman costume."
http://www.mania.com/superman-lives-part-3-nicolas-cage_article_21288.html

Then he would wear the black Kryptonian suit temporarily after his resurrection when he is virtually powerless.

Then the K suit would disintegrate to reveal him in an update of the classic blue suit.

And Superman did wear a black suit in the comics temporarily after he returned.

a Fortress of Solitude that looked like a sex shop

Doesn't look like a sex shop to me.

and Nicholas Cage as Superman.

That's right, and I'd take Nicholas Cage's Superman over Brandon Routh's Superman any day.

 

[JAK®]

That's right, and I'd take Nicholas Cage's Superman over Brandon Routh's Superman any day.

Right

 

[theMan-Bat]

Right!

 

[Jochimus]

There certainly is humor in some of Denny O'Neil's Batman stories, and Steve Englehart's Dark Detective, but they are not campy. Their not making fun of and parodying the character. Camp is a form of parody.

Batman does have a sense of humor. Even in Tim Burton's films Batman wise-cracks. "Eat floor, high fiber."

And Batman makes plenty of jokes and wise-cracks in All-Star Batman & Robin...

And a lot of people want that series, All-Star Batman & Robin is one of DC's top sellers.

Judging by some of the references he's made in his more recent Batman stories, I'm pretty sure Miller has an affection for the old Batman TV series...but in his own perverse and demented way.

 

[CaptainClown]

liar!

 

[theMan-Bat]

liar!

Seriously. I'd love to see Tim Burton and Nicholas Cage's Superman, tough aggressive Man of Steel, rather than Bryan Singer and Brandon Routh's non-violent sensitive emasculated metrosexual deadbeat dad jealous peeping tom soft spoken baby-faced pretty boy with brown hair wearing a spandex costume with low-riding short-shorts which makes people think Superman is gay.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Judging by some of the references he's made in his more recent Batman stories, I'm pretty sure Miller has an affection for the old Batman TV series...but in his own perverse and demented way.

That's right. Frank Miller said, "I'm a fan of the old Adam West TV show; I think it's hilarious."
http://www.ugo.com/channels/dvd/features/sincity/interview.asp

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Seriously. I'd love to see Tim Burton and Nicholas Cage's Superman, tough aggressive Man of Steel, rather than Bryan Singer and Brandon Routh's non-violent sensitive emasculated metrosexual deadbeat dad jealous peeping tom soft spoken baby-faced pretty boy with brown hair wearing a spandex costume with low-riding short-shorts which makes people think Superman is gay.

While not a fan of Singer's movie, I also disagree with "Dark Superman". Superman SHOULD NOT be dark. That is Batman's job. Superman represents hope and the belief in good, not another cliche dark, agressive, and borderline psychotic that are a dime a dozen in today's comics.

Basically, give us a Superman like Timm's. Serious, but not overly dark.