The Confederate flag

[cronosred]

I just did.

It's a different context.

Instead of persecution it's used to relate to another black person.

Especially for underclass blacks.

When you see a white guy in a pick up truck with a "redneck" sticker on the back window are you tempted to lecture them on how derogatory the term is?

If your going to use context as an excuse than it goes both ways. You shouldn't be upset with someone or assume their racist for flying a confederate flag because you don't know the context in which their doing it.

 

[Wylie Times]

If your going to use context as an excuse than it goes both ways. You shouldn't be upset with someone or assume their racist for flying a confederate flag because you don't know the context in which their doing it.

Except that people who fly the confederate flag often try and fail at giving context.

They'll cite "States rights", "Southern pride", and "Heritage" but ignore or deny how much racism factors into all of those things.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Less positions of power? Open your eyes, dude. Blacks have more opportunities than most other races...decades of affirmative action ring a bell? Open your eyes and stop playing this race card. And no one said racism is over--it will always be here, but Americans are a hell of a lot less tolerant of it than in other countries. They throw gays from the tops of buildings in Iran! I wonder how many of you in here would fare in these barbaric countries. Racism has gone from being a problem to being an excuse to stay in the bottom ranks and accept handouts rather than a hand up.

Look bro, around 26 percent of blacks live in poverty and 12 percent of whites.

Is that big enough difference to condescendingly lecture blacks about staying on "the bottom ranks and looking for hand outs"?

I don't think so.

It's just a difference of 14 percent.

Obviously the vast majority of blacks don't live in poverty so saying that blacks are on the bottom and looking for hand outs is incredibly racist.

No one judges whites on their least successful 12 percent.

Why do blacks get judged on their least successful 26 percent?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If your going to use context as an excuse than it goes both ways. You shouldn't be upset with someone or assume their racist for flying a confederate flag because you don't know the context in which their doing it.

The point is I have no right to tell a white person how to use the term redneck because it's a word used to persecute them.

I have every right to tell someone they shouldn't use the confederate flag because it's been used by slave owners, klansmen and segregationist to persecute blacks.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

The confederate flag is stupid. How is it southern pride when the people that used that flag supported slavery and racism............. That's not something to be proud of and its pretty stupid of anyone to say it is. I am glad it's being banned.

 

[cronosred]

Except that people who fly the confederate flag often try and fail at giving context.

They'll cite "States rights", "Southern pride", and "Heritage" but ignore or deny how much racism factors into all of those things.

Those excuses aren't any more flimsy than "We're taking it back" "We're turning it into a positive" when it comes to using the N word.

 

[cronosred]

The point is I have no right to tell a white person how to use the term redneck because it's a word used to persecute them.

I have every right to tell someone they shouldn't use the confederate flag because it's been used by slave owners, klansmen and segregationist to persecute blacks.

And the N word was used how? You want to keep it around and call each other it why?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Those excuses aren't any more flimsy than "We're taking it back" "We're turning it into a positive" when it comes to using the N word.

Read my above post.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

And the N word was used how? You want to keep it around and call each other it why?

Why do poor whites proudly consider themselves rednecks.

They are using a slur and turning it into a term of solidairity.

Yet no one lectures them.

 

[Wylie Times]

Those excuses aren't any more flimsy than "We're taking it back" "We're turning it into a positive" when it comes to using the N word.

I agree those excuses are flimsy, but lets not act as if an oppressed people using a slur directed at them among themselves is the same as someone not of that group using the slur.


The thing about the n-word is that ANYBODY can use it, but you have to accept the consequences of using the word. If you're not black and you use the word odds are people are going think you're racist.

Black people get in trouble for using the word too, there's just no question of whether or not they're racist against other black people (for obvious reasons).

 

[cronosred]

Read my above post.

Got it. You want to get rid of the flag but keep the N word.

 

[Wylie Times]

Got it. You want to get rid of the flag but keep the N word.

False equivalency.

There's a difference between in group usage of a slur and the confederate flag.

The hand wringing about the "n-word" has more to do with white people being upset that they can't use it without consequence and less about any actual offense taken by it. Also last I checked the n-word is pretty heavily censored in the vast majority of cases.

The confederate flag is flown as a "tribute" to group of people who fought to enslave black people. The flag only started showing up again when white southerns were opposing desegregation and an end to jim crow.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Got it. You want to get rid of the flag but keep the N word.

Not exactly.

More specifically I believe whites should be allowed to exclusively use the term "redneck" and blacks allowed to exclusively use the N-word.

The confederate flag is different because it insults an outside group. Though I don't think it should be banned across the board.

 

[MaceB]

Actually I do not watch Foxnews. Also I could give a damn what you think!
Finally what are your credentials that makes you more qualified than me!??

No credentials... I'm just speaking facts. That's the difference.

I don't see race bud. I see economics. Rich people only care if you are rich like they are! Remove poverty and under education and you will see crime rates drop like lead in water!

I appreciate that - I believe most things trace back to class as well. Unfortunately, you're ignoring how class inequality and ethnicity parallel in this day and age. How class is used as a tool to maintain separation, not the other way around. Do you think it's a coincidence or something? You act as if we are all born on this equal playing field, and blacks have just as much opportunity to rise up as whites... well that's just statistically untrue. Just like many of us, many blacks are born into poverty, and there's not enough upward mobility anymore to get out of it. The problem is that blacks are much more likely to be born into this cycle and much further down, with poverty and the ghetto being pretty much intergenerational at this point. I'm sorry that you don't see it in your every day life, but figures are figures, facts are facts. If you say that the game isn't in the favor of the majority (whites), whether it be relating to education, incarceration, or class... then I'm sorry, you're just wrong. The numbers show that you are wrong, but you don't want to listen.

Less positions of power? Open your eyes, dude. Blacks have more opportunities than most other races...decades of affirmative action ring a bell? Open your eyes and stop playing this race card. And no one said racism is over--it will always be here, but Americans are a hell of a lot less tolerant of it than in other countries. They throw gays from the tops of buildings in Iran! I wonder how many of you in here would fare in these barbaric countries. Racism has gone from being a problem to being an excuse to stay in the bottom ranks and accept handouts rather than a hand up.

No, how about you open your eyes. What ethnicity has more poverty? What ethnicity has more wrongful incarcerations? What ethnicity has less positions of power? What geographic areas have less well payed schools? When a white kid guns down black folks, he's caught and escorted to prison in a bullet proof fest. When a black guy is selling cigarettes on the street, he gets choked to death.
Affirmative action is a measure to offset the fact that we imprisoned a group of people and delayed their growth for centuries. But it's hardly making a dent is it? Do you really think that a poor black kid from the bronx has more opportunity to get into yale then a white kid who's daddy went there? What are you talking about?
I love how you say, "no one is saying that racism is over" and then immediately after, say racism is "an excuse." You really are delusional I guess? Have you even looked up the facts or are you just a white kid who was raised to believe that racism is stupid? I bet you the latter.

Not to mention, this coded conservative bs that racism is used by blacks as an excuse to stay down is another way of saying they're either stupid or lazy. It's the epitome of racism. Whether you like it or not, this country is not an equal playing field for all people. That's just reality. If you want to deny that, then you just aren't informed. I could show you these well tallied statistics... but let's be honest... that wouldn't change your opinion.

Meanwhile, we're veering off the subject of the confederate flag. The thing that started all this was "well it's not gonna destroy racism, haha, liberals are so stupid." Well I say that you and others like you are finding arguments to justify your ideology - you know the answers before you even look. Why make things better when we can't make them perfect is about the dumbest argument I can think of. The confederate flag is a symbol for a group of traitors who seceded from the Union because they wanted to continue to use brown skinned brothers as their property. If you wear it or fly it that god awful thing, then you're at least in part perpetuating that ideology... and that...is...gross. Whoever does so should be ashamed honestly.

And by the way, claiming that we're okay because third world theocracies actually kill people isn't really all that compelling. Yeah, I guess you're right. We don't execute based on sexuality or race in this country... at least not the courts. Is that really the standard we should be living by? Others kill these mofos, so obviously we're in the clear?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Less positions of power? Open your eyes, dude. Blacks have more opportunities than most other races...decades of affirmative action ring a bell? Open your eyes and stop playing this race card. And no one said racism is over--it will always be here, but Americans are a hell of a lot less tolerant of it than in other countries. They throw gays from the tops of buildings in Iran! I wonder how many of you in here would fare in these barbaric countries. Racism has gone from being a problem to being an excuse to stay in the bottom ranks and accept handouts rather than a hand up.

If it's so great to be black in today's day and age, then why aren't millions of white Americans signing up to live the great black life?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If it's so great to be black in today's day and age, then why aren't millions of white Americans signing up to live the great black life?

No one is signing up for the great Asian or Jewish life either.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No one is signing up for the great Asian or Jewish life either.

Is it wrong that all of the Jewish stereotypes popped up in my head and made me go "Yes, yes I do want that great Jewish life,"?

 

[Mightmitenot]

 

[chaseter]

Is it wrong that all of the Jewish stereotypes popped up in my head and made me go "Yes, yes I do want that great Jewish life,"?

I'm converting right now, I have no idea what you are waiting for.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm converting right now, I have no idea what you are waiting for.

Well, if I ever want my crazy Hollywood movies to ever get made, I probably should do it. Though I wonder if I should change my last name to something Whitestein, Whitestern, Whiteowicz, or Whitebaum.

 

[NHawk19]

For me it's strange how we've gone from associating this flag with southern culture to automatically thinking of it as racist because of the actions of a few morons.

The flag has influenced southern culture so much to that it's even a part of the Mississippi state flag. It's the second version which blatantly represented white supremacy, and was dropped in 1865.

http://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-na-g-confederate-flag-history-20150623-htmlstory.html

If all these people wore chuck taylors when they committed these unspeakable acts would you support a ban on those? Would they suddenly be seen as racist shoes? Or better yet what about a certain type of hat? That's actually happening all over the world when in comes to turbans because of the actions of morons. Yet we argue that we should only view the morons as the evil perpetrators and not all the people who wear that hat.

In the 1980s a skateboard meant you were a "bad" kid. Tipper Gore once took on Dee Snyder because of family values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoYcsH7Wrs

Honestly I think it's bad people doing bad things, and the government feeling like it has to do something as a response. Much the same as when in IM 3 they changed War Machine to the Iron Patriot. Or in a real life they changed French Fries to Freedom Fries.

They needed a target to express outrage so they chose this one as their symbol to make it seem like they did something.

 

[Wylie Times]

For me it's strange how we've gone from associating this flag with southern culture to automatically thinking of it as racist because of the actions of a few morons.

The flag has influenced southern culture so much to that it's even a part of the Mississippi state flag. It's the second version which blatantly represented white supremacy, and was dropped in 1865.

http://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-na-g-confederate-flag-history-20150623-htmlstory.html

If all these people wore chuck taylors when they committed these unspeakable acts would you support a ban on those? Would they suddenly be seen as racist shoes? Or better yet what about a certain type of hat? That's actually happening all over the world when in comes to turbans because of the actions of morons. Yet we argue that we should only view the morons as the evil perpetrators and not all the people who wear that hat.

In the 1980s a skateboard meant you were a "bad" kid. Tipper Gore once took on Dee Snyder because of family values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoYcsH7Wrs

Honestly I think it's bad people doing bad things, and the government feeling like it has to do something as a response. Much the same as when in IM 3 they changed War Machine to the Iron Patriot. Or in a real life they changed French Fries to Freedom Fries.

They needed a target to express outrage so they chose this one as their symbol to make it seem like they did something.

Every time people say stuff like this the implication is that black people in the South don't count. There are millions of black people in the south,many who have southern roots that go back farther than at lot of white people. The overwhelming majority of black folks in the south HATE that flag for obvious reasons. They've been trying to get of it in official government capacities for a LONG time. The flag was only brought back in response white people in the south being against desegregation and the end of Jim Crow.

That "Just a few bad apples" excuse doesn't hold water when it comes that flag.

It's wild to me how people are twisting and turning to ignore the history surrounding the flag and completely existing the very existence of black southerners.

 

[NHawk19]

I never said they don't count. I simply said the image has been perverted to something other than was was intended. And what about the second part of my argument . . .

If the "just a few bad apples" excuse doesn't hold water for this then there's a whole list of other things we need to ban. How about Turbans, the Koran, Black Panther Flags, hoodies, etc.? People who harmed others all wore or carried those and I find anything that anyone wore more than say 100 times in a criminal action offensive.

For the record I'm against banning all those things. I'm just extending your argument about things people find offensive being banned. Where does it stop?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's not just a few bad apples.

The confederates fought against their country (treason) to continue slavery (white supremacy and oppression).

Do some people fly the confederate flag purely for heritage? Sure. But that's because they either don't know or don't care about the truth. This ignorance doesn't erase the terrible things the confederate flag represents.

Either you believe the South deserved to lose the Civil War or you don't. But you can't defend the confederate flag without suggesting that you feel the confederates were justified and that they should've defeated the Union, permanently divided the US and continued slavery.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

For me it's strange how we've gone from associating this flag with southern culture to automatically thinking of it as racist because of the actions of a few morons.

The flag has influenced southern culture so much to that it's even a part of the Mississippi state flag. It's the second version which blatantly represented white supremacy, and was dropped in 1865.

http://www.latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-na-g-confederate-flag-history-20150623-htmlstory.html

If all these people wore chuck taylors when they committed these unspeakable acts would you support a ban on those? Would they suddenly be seen as racist shoes? Or better yet what about a certain type of hat? That's actually happening all over the world when in comes to turbans because of the actions of morons. Yet we argue that we should only view the morons as the evil perpetrators and not all the people who wear that hat.

In the 1980s a skateboard meant you were a "bad" kid. Tipper Gore once took on Dee Snyder because of family values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoYcsH7Wrs

Honestly I think it's bad people doing bad things, and the government feeling like it has to do something as a response. Much the same as when in IM 3 they changed War Machine to the Iron Patriot. Or in a real life they changed French Fries to Freedom Fries.

They needed a target to express outrage so they chose this one as their symbol to make it seem like they did something.

Should the Confederacy have won the Civil War?

Why or why not?