World The Duality of Clark Kent / Superman

[Billy Batson]

^ No one at the Planet pay Smallville's Clark any attention, you would be amazed at how different someone can look with a suit( ) and a new hairdo (\S/ curl).

Nice comparison.

Thank you.
[YT]SBy5nGio04A[/YT]
[YT]eZ0RF_QetSQ[/YT]
The words of the MASTER. ^

 

[EagleVision]

Hmm. Well, thanks everyone for your responses. CK, I agree with a lot of what you said. My personal take on it is somewhat complicated, but I think Superman is a complicated character, so I suppose that fits. The thing is, he has so many different sides to him and so many different fronts he has to put up. It must be a very stressful and lonely life.

This is going to sound corny but, to me, he is like water, in a way. H2O can be experienced in different forms, solid, liquid and vapor, but when you get right down to it, it's all the same molecule. That's almost how I would describe Clark/Kal-El/Superman. Each part of his personality is distinct and unique, but when you get right down to it, they are all the same person. It's just that person is struggling to juggle all these different public personas and still be true to himself and ultimately, to his destiny.

I don't want to believe that Clark is merely a facade. To me, he was Clark before he was Superman. He was even Clark before he was Kal - EL, in a way, because he was living as Clark Kent before all of that was revealed to him. And the person he was and is as Clark was heavily influenced by his middle American upbringing, thanks to the Kents. (and that's not to say that Jor - EL and Lara wouldn't have been good role models, but they were scientists and their frame of reference would have been different than the Kent's.) Anyway, he wouldn't have been Superman on Krypton so it's kind of a moot point. But because of the Kent's training, and perhaps even his own innate moral compass, here he is able to make the necessary judgments that allow him to do his work as Superman.

Now as for Superman, we all know he is only Superman because of the earth's special circumstances. He would have been just another average guy on Krypton, but here he can really shine and put his learned sense of right and wrong to good use. So here he is, thrust in to a role he never would have lived, otherwise. Maybe on Krypton he would have been a scientist, like his father, an astronaut like his mother or simply a Kryptonian plumber. t: We'll never know. But here, here, he gets to be a Super man with incredible powers. He gets to be everybody's favorite hero and literally carry out justice, rescue people and beat up the bad guys. Yet, sadly, even though he is adored by millions, he is still a tragically lonely figure who is the last son of his planet, unable to be with a Kryptonian woman, unable to have Kryptonian children, unable to even fully experience his own Kryptoninan - ness, while at the same time living with, interacting with, and even falling in love with a species he can't fully comprehend, and all while he is unable to reveal the other sides of his personality. That really breaks my heart for him.

Regardless of which way you see it, whether Clark is the "real" person and Superman is just his job/duty/disguise, or whether Kal-El/Superman is the real person and Clark Kent is the disguise, either way, he's living a lie for a good part of his life. As Clark Kent, he lives in constant fear of being discovered as Superman. As Superman, he lives in fear of being discovered as Clark Kent.

What a life.

I see all your points, and they are valid ones. And the water theory is very true as well rather than him pretending to be Clark but really being Superman. The comic has always come from that angle which has made this particular hero one of the most unique characters created; and particularly why Supes fans will say that Supes is who he really is and Clark is his disguise. But in essence, his Clark is just as important and essential to who he is. Just like Batman and the way they have that angle. Heroes like Supes and Bats work because one can't exist without the other at their very cores.

Well said.

ps- u ever read Superman: Man of Tomorrow? Small comic but great read on the end of Superman. Check it out sometime if u haven't already.

 

[EagleVision]

^ No one at the Planet pay Smallville's Clark any attention, you would be amazed at how different someone can look with a suit( ) and a new hairdo (\S/ curl).


Thank you.
[YT]SBy5nGio04A[/YT]
[YT]eZ0RF_QetSQ[/YT]
The words of the MASTER. ^

I know. That's the only excuse I've evr heard. No one pays Clark any attention. But I'm talking about people like Lois and Lex. How do u explain that one? It's not automatic that Lois knows Clark secret and Lex never knows but always speculates. Now if you're former best friends like Lex and Clark were, you're not gonna recognize someone because they slicked back their hair put on some glasses and is clumsy? Come on. And Lois, well I don't know the full history of Lois as far as her knowing Clark before the Daily Planet in comics, but as far as Smallville goes, Clark could put on that get up and then stand in front of her as Supes. Are u saying she won't recognize him cause he greased his head and jumped in a suit? Come on!

Granted it won't get that far in the series because it's all about Smallville and the prelude to his life before Metropolis and his destiny but they messed up when they didn't make him wear glasses sooner and be a little quirkier. They probably figured they didn't have to because they're not going that far in the future, but I'm a analyzer, I go the distance son

 

[CLARKY]

Well, they won't go that far in Smallville, so I don't even think about it. But I remember a theory that Wizard Magazine created when they did "ultimate Superman".
After disappearing for 4 years, Lex come back to Metropolis and take Lexcorp. Clark is working at the Planet and Superman has appeared.
Lex recognizes Clark, of course, and realizes that Clark fooled him all these years, and that, if Clark fooled him on their friendship (the only part of good that stay in Lex) , Superman has to pay the price. And it made their relationship very complex. So, concerning Lex, I always figure it that way.

Hey Billy Batson, thanks for posting the Bruce Lee videos. A little culture doesn't hurt!

 

[EagleVision]

Well, they won't go that far in Smallville, so I don't even think about it. But I remember a theory that Wizard Magazine created when they did "ultimate Superman".
After disappearing for 4 years, Lex come back to Metropolis and take Lexcorp. Clark is working at the Planet and Superman has appeared.
Lex recognizes Clark, of course, and realizes that Clark fooled him all these years, and that, if Clark fooled him on their friendship (the only part of good that stay in Lex) , Superman has to pay the price. And it made their relationship very complex. So, concerning Lex, I always figure it that way.

Hey Billy Batson, thanks for posting the Bruce Lee videos. A little culture doesn't hurt!

Interesting take on the Wizard tip, but you're right it won't get that far unfortunately. They'll cut the show I'm assuming after he graduates college and moves to Metropolis to work at the Planet.

Just between u and me though I'm certain Chloe is gonna die before the series is over. She'd die to protect Clark's secret.

 

[hammy]

But in essence, his Clark is just as important and essential to who he is. Just like Batman and the way they have that angle. Heroes like Supes and Bats work because one can't exist without the other at their very cores.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't like to see Clark dismissed. Without him, Kal-el may not have the integrity and love for humanity, that he does. Superman is almost like the robotic side of his nature. Don't get me wrong, I love him. But the heroic things he does are second nature to him and often come without effort (not always). Clark is the part of him that grapples with humanity and worries, frets, falls in love, etc. I love Clark. :heart: Even the bumbling, inept version. He puts the 'man,' in Superman, but he's pretty special in his own right.

 

[EagleVision]

This is exactly how I feel. I don't like to see Clark dismissed. Without him, Kal-el may not have the integrity and love for humanity, that he does. Superman is almost like the robotic side of his nature. Don't get me wrong, I love him. But the heroic things he does are second nature to him and often come without effort (not always). Clark is the part of him that grapples with humanity and worries, frets, falls in love, etc. I love Clark. :heart: Even the bumbling, inept version. He puts the 'man,' in Superman, but he's pretty special in his own right.

Yeah, the reason Supes work is honestly because of Clark. If Clark didn't have that "human side" to him, I don't think everyone would have embraced the goody two shoes aspect of Superman as long as it has been. You know, always being the do-gooder, incapable of doing wrong. People love their superheroes with some flaws and struggles; it gives them something to relate to and something to aspire to.

 

[hammy]

EagleVision, I would like to ask you about something. Would you mind pm-ing me?

 

[mego joe]

IMO, he's somewhere in between Superman and Metropolis Clark. The real person is both!?! He's really both, just two aspects of the same person, just with really far extremes. SUperman is just as much a role as Clark. He becomes larger than life as Superman just as he becomes 'smaller than life' when he's Clark.

I don't think it's either one, but both at the same time, he just has ways of expressing the different sides of his personality that are more extreme than the average person on the street. I think it's the same way for most of these comic characters, the 'real' person is BOTH. It's the nature of the beast if you will.

THe whole medium of comic book characters is about characters who have two different sides to their personalities that are expressed in extreme terms. If one side isn't 'really' part of that person, there's no way they could pull it off for years and years.

Secret ID's and costumes are about protecting loved one's and providing a personal life, but they in no way invalidate the aspect of the character. It's a very complex issue that has been simplified into terms of 'Secret Identity' and alter-ego etc... .

I think the case with a character like Batman is that while he has been often described as the real person and Bruce Wayne is the mask, it is more like Batman is the aspect of the personality extreme he focuses on to the point of nearly ignoring the Bruce Wayne aspect. But he is still 'really' Bruce Wayne' as much as he is 'The Batman.' Grant Morrison's current Batman stories are showing him getting re-acquainted, if you will with the Bruce Wayne part of his personality.

 

[CLARKY]

I agree with everything you said.
Whatever Clark is, he is all the aspects. Personally, when I'm talking about Kal El or Superman, Or Clark, I'm talking about aspects more than real personalities.
And I think the aspect that predomines the most is Clark. Raised by humans, educated by humans, he loves like an human being, he laugh like such, he cooks like such, etc, ... That's why I'm in disagreement with the "Kal El predomines" argument. I have nothing against B.Singer but I disagree with the " even if you've been raised by the humans, you're not part of them" line.
Well, in the mean time, it depends if people here are talking about one "aspect" of him or his entire personnality. It's doesn't mean the same thing at all to me.

I think the case with a character like Batman is that while he has been often described as the real person and Bruce Wayne is the mask, it is more like Batman is the aspect of the personality extreme he focuses on to the point of nearly ignoring the Bruce Wayne aspect. But he is still 'really' Bruce Wayne' as much as he is 'The Batman.'

I-couldn't-agree-more.

 

[Billy Batson]

Hey Billy Batson, thanks for posting the Bruce Lee videos. A little culture doesn't hurt!

Your Welcome.

I know. That's the only excuse I've evr heard. No one pays Clark any attention. But I'm talking about people like Lois and Lex. How do u explain that one? It's not automatic that Lois knows Clark secret and Lex never knows but always speculates. Now if you're former best friends like Lex and Clark were, you're not gonna recognize someone because they slicked back their hair put on some glasses and is clumsy? Come on. And Lois, well I don't know the full history of Lois as far as her knowing Clark before the Daily Planet in comics, but as far as Smallville goes, Clark could put on that get up and then stand in front of her as Supes. Are u saying she won't recognize him cause he greased his head and jumped in a suit? Come on!

Granted it won't get that far in the series because it's all about Smallville and the prelude to his life before Metropolis and his destiny but they messed up when they didn't make him wear glasses sooner and be a little quirkier. They probably figured they didn't have to because they're not going that far in the future, but I'm a analyzer, I go the distance son

Lamotta77: "His name is Kal-El, he will call himself Clark Kent, but the world will know him as Superman... "

I'm glad you go the distance, I'm here only to add my $.02 nothing more.
Feel free to crown yourself the winner.

 

[dr collossus]

I think everyone on here has made some interesting points, and I think all are correct, depending on your interpretation. The crux of most people's point of view here is that there is the core character, and then a persona that he uses to disguise himself/fit in/fulfiul his duties or whatever, and the fact that all of these points of view are extremely solid seems to highlight to me what some other people have been saying, which is that it's not a person/persona duality, but in fact more like the H2O analogy, which is that Superman, Clark and Kal-El are all equally valid aspects of his prsonality.

Most people are like this in real life; we all act differently around different people and in different situations. We all adopt a different persona at work, with family, with loved ones, with friends. None of these different 'personas' are the 'real' us or any more valid than any other, they are just different aspects of our personality that are suitable for different circumstances. This is the beauty of the Superman (and indeed superhero in general) mythology; it takes an aspect or aspects of our real lives and takes it to an extreme for entertainment value.

 

[hammy]

SUperman is just as much a role as Clark. He becomes larger than life as Superman just as he becomes 'smaller than life' when he's Clark.

Secret ID's and costumes are about protecting loved one's and providing a personal life, but they in no way invalidate the aspect of the character. It's a very complex issue that has been simplified into terms of 'Secret Identity' and alter-ego etc... .

Great points.

 

[hammy]

Most people are like this in real life; we all act differently around different people and in different situations. We all adopt a different persona at work, with family, with loved ones, with friends. None of these different 'personas' are the 'real' us or any more valid than any other, they are just different aspects of our personality that are suitable for different circumstances. This is the beauty of the Superman (and indeed superhero in general) mythology; it takes an aspect or aspects of our real lives and takes it to an extreme for entertainment value.

I remember seeing an interview a long time ago where the man being interviewed was saying that he is a different person with his wife, with whom he shares his life and is intimately close, than he is with his kids, for whom he is daddy, or his boss, with whom he has a strictly professional relationship, and his own parents, who still see him as a kid, and his friends, who see the more relaxed side of him, etc. I always remembered that because I thought it was interesting. Sometimes the aspect of a person's personality that we see (in whatever role we see them) is only a fraction of the total person.