Superman Returns Why Superman II massacres Clark Kent

[TheIntellectual]

There's been a lot of discussion about how Clark Kent is treated in Superman Returns. Some say that he gives the character a pathos that Reeve never had, whereas reviews such as IGN claim that "Routh plays Kent as merely a cheap act with no depth or history, someone who is only Superman with glasses.".

What's interesting is that IGN somehow thinks that Reeve's Clark was more than a disguise to the Donner Superman... even though Superman II makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Reeve's Clark is the disguise act.

It's my most hatest scene between the first two movies... even worse than the "NOOOOO time reversal" and "Crazy new powers Superman II climax". Once Clark has revealed that he's Superman... he takes her to his fortress. Superman then speaks of Clark in the THIRD PERSON.

Why is it that people praise Donner's films for making Clark more than a disguise.... when that whole notion really didn't come around until Dean Cain's version?

 

[Nivek]

I prefer how Singers doing it. Clarl/Kal-El around Martha in Smallville is how he really is, and Lois gets a peek at that guy, and thats who she falls in Love with. Superman is his work-clothes and CC/K-E with his attitude in full force. Clark Kent in Metropolis is just Clark trying be unassuming and fitting in, the same way when he interacted with people in Smallville.

I like Clark Wearing glasses even as a kid. i hate him in smallville without them, because all someone has to do is friggin know clarlk, and see him in the superman suit. Glasses may not be MUCH of a disguise, but it's better than everyone knowing his damn face and name.

 

[MoreCowbell]

There are two Clarks. The Smallville Clark (AKA Kal-El) is the true personality. A real person with all the charm, goofiness and everything inbetween. The Clark Lois knows doesn't really exsist. It's an act with small shades of truth and lots of exaggeration.

 

[fangrl06]

I prefer how Singers doing it. Clarl/Kal-El around Martha in Smallville is how he really is, and Lois gets a peek at that guy, and thats who she falls in Love with. Superman is his work-clothes and CC/K-E with his attitude in full force. Clark Kent in Metropolis is just Clark trying be unassuming and fitting in, the same way when he interacted with people in Smallville.

I like Clark Wearing glasses even as a kid. i hate him in smallville without them, because all someone has to do is friggin know clarlk, and see him in the superman suit. Glasses may not be MUCH of a disguise, but it's better than everyone knowing his damn face and name.

 

[Superfreak]

Clark and Superman, are two extremes of the same person. Superman is both Clark and Superman. Not because he chooses to be, but because he is.

In Superman II, Clark doesn't trip over the bear rug on purpose, not intentionally atleast. Even he questions why he tripped over the rug. I think that fact alone shows the duality of the character.

Superman and Clark are one and the same, yet they are extremes of the same personality. The real person (who, in terms of SR) is the Clark on the farm. the Clark on the farm is both Clark Kent, the dork, and Superman, the ultra alpha male. Clark on the farm is the balance between Superman, and Clark Kent. He is the person that Superman and Clark really are.

 

[The Kid]

I think the clark in the farm is the one they're referring too with the pathos. I guess he's there for a while, questioning his place in the universe and all that. "It's not easy for me to live my life... etc."

I think what he might have meant in superman 2 is that the clark lois knew as the clumbsy mild mannered guy wasn't who the real clark is. I'm not sure since I can't see the scene now... in superman 3 I love the junkyard fight because it shows superman clashing with his alter ego, and as the clumbsy clark is crushed down in the compressor, the REAL clark breaks out to pimp smack the evil persona. So it's a three way battle I think and shows who the real superman is. Superman is farmboy clark in tights. I don't think people are saying donners movie made clark seem like anything more than a clumbsy mild mannered act superman puts on when he's undercover. I believe we'll see that same act again in returns with a clear division between superman and mild mannered clark. There's supposed to be a third clark, farmboy clark, but I don't see much difference between him and supey right now.

 

[Triligors]

In defense of Smallville's CK not having glasses. Neither did young Superman of S:TM.

 

[charl_huntress]

Though I know some people loathe Cain's Clark/Superman, I liked that it did define that Superman is Clark Kent and Kal-El. They are three different names, but I think it would be taking it too far to say they are different personalities like he has MPD.

Guaranteed, Clark in "disguise" is him playing down his powers and abilites, along of course with the glasses. One good thing that Donner did was touch on the fact that Clark also physically alters his stature and height. The Clark Kent disguise is him acting nerdy and unassuming so he can maintain his fly on the wall status. On that point, I do think Donner got it right, but I think he took it too far by playing it up for extreme laughs. Sure it can be funny, and I think Singer has that in the film, but you can't make Clark too goofy. In the same breath, he can't be all GQ like on LnC either.

I've always looked at Clark referring to himself in the third in SII as pre-crisis, which would fit since Superman did think of himself as solely Superman/Kal-El. LnC is all post-crisis, and definitely Bryne defined Clark and gave him more personality...which was and still is a good thing. This SR Clark seems to be more like STAS' Clark, which is also good with me because I thought that was a very good blend of Clark/Supes and Kal.

Check out "The Late Mr. Kent" for what I mean....

 

[Kane]

Superman II was a mess, which is why Singer ignores most of it.

The Salkinds and Lester's stupid ideas didnt help.

 

[user123456789]

In defense of Smallville's CK not having glasses. Neither did young Superman of S:TM.

true, but at least young clark in S:TM went on his journey at 18.

Clark in smallville is now 19 turning 20, and he's still in smallville.

 

[thechubbysaint]

The 'Superman for all Seasons' comic was a great way to show Clark. Smallville really departed from that small town charm that Clark should have. In addition, 'Pa Kent' really helps to keep him grounded in humanity, it is a shame they went pre-crisis with this movie.

 

[Eros]

Superman II was a mess, which is why Singer ignores most of it.

The Salkinds and Lester's stupid ideas didnt help.

you must be joking, superman 2 is classic man. Zod became a Legend in that movie. true it was shaky with the two directors, but overall how a superman fan cannot like superman 2 is weird. Not to mention superman going toe to toe with villains who can match his strength and brains.

 

[MR. MOVIEMAN]

Superman doesn't become Superman in the comics till he is 30 , so it doesn;t matter how long clark takes to do that journey.

Clark as a kid wearing glasses? why would he wear glasses ? he doesn't need them he has perfect vision , why would anyone care if they saw clark as a kid or not . Its not like Clark grew up knowing who he was , and Ma and Pa didn't know Clarks true nature all they knew he was a kid from Space beyond that it was anyones guess.

EArth 2 superman was Kal-el superman that superman was destroyed recently in the comics forever thank God.

Earth 1 superman is Clark kent and superman is the disguise he uses to free himself. He was born Kal-el , but he grew up Clark and Superman Allows Clark to free himself.

 

[Eros]

Superman doesn't become Superman in the comics till he is 30 , so it doesn;t matter how long clark takes to do that journey.

Clark as a kid wearing glasses? why would he wear glasses ? he doesn't need them he has perfect vision , why would anyone care if they saw clark as a kid or not . Its not like Clark grew up knowing who he was , and Ma and Pa didn't know Clarks true nature all they knew he was a kid from Space beyond that it was anyones guess.

EArth 2 superman was Kal-el superman that superman was destroyed recently in the comics forever thank God.

Earth 1 superman is Clark kent and superman is the disguise he uses to free himself. He was born Kal-el , but he grew up Clark and Superman Allows Clark to free himself.

what you talking abut, Clark became superman like at 25 years old. Hell he became a superhero even younger then that in the silver-age.

 

[OneKnight]

This may sound weird, but the one thing I didn't like in S:TM was Clark leaving Smallville and creating the FoS at eighteen.

He's there for twelve years?

He doesn't see Martha for a dozen years?

And what about school? How did he get a job at a "major metropolitan newspaper" without at least a Bachelor's in journalism or English?

He should have left at twenty-two.

I had an idea how this could've been shown in the movie without using up any time at all.

 

[MR. MOVIEMAN]

Eros

In post Crisis Superman becomes superman at 30 Earth 1 SUPERMAN

Pre crisis superman turned at young age and he no longer exsist and he is called EARTH 2 superman.

There are two versions of superman


The superman in Lois and clark , Smallville , Justice League unlimited , Batman the animated series , Superman the animated series , Jack Kirby superman , Kingdom Come Superman , and Most comic versions are Earth 1 and Post crisis superman.

 

[Tony Stark]

Eros

In post Crisis Superman becomes superman at 30 Earth 1 SUPERMAN

Pre crisis superman turned at young age and he no longer exsist and he is called EARTH 2 superman.

There are two versions of superman


The superman in Lois and clark , Smallville , Justice League unlimited , Batman the animated series , Superman the animated series , Jack Kirby superman , Kingdom Come Superman , and Most comic versions are Earth 1 and Post crisis superman.

And because the movies (with the exception of Superman IV), all came out before Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Clark Kent of the movies is the "mild mannered reporter"

Dean Cain was the first actor to show the post-crisis Clark, and as I said on the other thread, I think he was the best Clark Kent. Not the best Superman, but the best Clark Kent.

 

[Chris M]

Dean Cain was the first actor to show the post-crisis Clark, and as I said on the other thread, I think he was the best Clark Kent. Not the best Superman, but the best Clark Kent.

Couldn't agree more.

I also think Terri Hatcher's Lois Lane was the best so far.

 

[retconned]

IMO, Clark Kent should be the real man, but I wasn't the one making the movie so it doesn't really matter.

Also, will someone explain to me why they think daddy how to tell Kal-El to become Superman in Donner's film, instead of Clark making the choice all on his own? I can't wait for this one.

 

[Tron5000]

There's been a lot of discussion about how Clark Kent is treated in Superman Returns. Some say that he gives the character a pathos that Reeve never had, whereas reviews such as IGN claim that "Routh plays Kent as merely a cheap act with no depth or history, someone who is only Superman with glasses.".

What's interesting is that IGN somehow thinks that Reeve's Clark was more than a disguise to the Donner Superman... even though Superman II makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Reeve's Clark is the disguise act.

It's my most hatest scene between the first two movies... even worse than the "NOOOOO time reversal" and "Crazy new powers Superman II climax". Once Clark has revealed that he's Superman... he takes her to his fortress. Superman then speaks of Clark in the THIRD PERSON.

Why is it that people praise Donner's films for making Clark more than a disguise.... when that whole notion really didn't come around until Dean Cain's version?

I was all with you when I saw the word "pathos."

Then came "my most hatest"...


Stopped reading after that.

 

[OneKnight]

Also, will someone explain to me why they think daddy how to tell Kal-El to become Superman in Donner's film, instead of Clark making the choice all on his own? I can't wait for this one.

Because he would be tempted by all of the things any human is tempted by in life. He wanted to play high school football, he wanted to get the girl (Lana).

He needed someone to tell him where he truly came from, who he really was, and what was expected of him (i.e. why his father chose to send him to Earth as opposed to somewhere else).

He would've never got there on his own in my opinion. To me, S:TM has the best origin ever...bar none.

 

[Kane]

true, but at least young clark in S:TM went on his journey at 18.

Clark in smallville is now 19 turning 20, and he's still in smallville.

If he left they couldnt call the show Smallville anymore...hes stuck there till the end....however long they drag this crap out.

 

[Kane]

you must be joking, superman 2 is classic man. Zod became a Legend in that movie. true it was shaky with the two directors, but overall how a superman fan cannot like superman 2 is weird. Not to mention superman going toe to toe with villains who can match his strength and brains.

I'm not joking, it was a mess. Even Bryan Singer openly said he dislikes it...calling it not a particularly good film either.

Zod is overrated. He was never really a decent comicbook villian before the film and never really made a name for himself in the media or in the comics after either..

Lester threw in way too much idiotic camp into certain pivitol scenes. The original Donner 78 film is still the greatest, it was a downward spiral after that for 30 years.....with Superman Returns bringing Superman back to glory.

 

[OneKnight]

If he left they couldnt call the show Smallville anymore...hes stuck there till the end....however long they drag this crap out.

I have little doubt this coming season will be the last...thankfully.

 

[Kane]

I duno. WB is pretty stupid. They brought back 7th heaven. They like to drag to crap out till it becomes unprofitable.