Superman Returns The ending....

[Lightning54SC]

Well.....

Spoiler

we all know that at the end of the film Lex Luther is bainshed to a desert island and we know that he'll be around for another film but in the second film i was wondering how can we off Luther without killing him and getting some new villains into the picture? my idea is to have Supes BAN HIM to the Phantom Zone due to him knowing too much bout Kryptonian Technology

whats your ideas

 

[Agnarr]

Does Kal-El even know how to do that? I don't like eliminating Luthor permanently for the fact that it removes him from so many plot elements related to him. He's very useful as a villian, after all.

 

[Superfreak]

I disagree,

Luthor is a staple character of the Superman universe. Even if Luthor is not the main villain, he is always plotting in the background somewhere. Luthor was not the main villain in SII, yet he was there, causing trouble as usual.

Luthor is part of every superman cast. You've always got Lois, Clark, Jimmy, Perry, Ma, Pa (debatable), Lana, Clark, Superman and Lex. They are the main character of any superman story.

Examples:

SII, Lex is not the main villain, yet he tries to take advantage of the situation in order to rule Australia. He sells out Lois, and nearly the entire planet, except for Supes' brilliant endgame. Luthor here is taking advantage of the situation.

S:TAS When Darksied brainwashed Superman into a villain, Luthor used the opportunity to try and excecute Superman, when he was subdued by a kryptonite missile. In this case, Luthor is using the attack of a villain, to take advantage of supes

S:TAS When Brainiac arrives, Luthor is constantly dealing with the evil computer, trying to gain power, and always selling out the boy in blue. In this case, Luthor is being evil and naive at the same time, and is the catalyst for interaction with another main villain.

Even Kingdom Come had Luthor plotting in the background, corrupting Captain Marvel in order to bring about the apocoliptic battle.



there are so many examples, but I think my point is that Luthor is as vital to a superman cast as Lois or Clark is. He may not be the primary villain, but he is always there, somewhere, waiting for his opportunity to kill superman.

Lets say Superman returns has a sequel. And Mongul is main villain who attacks earth. Luthor will be there, waiting for Superman to expose himself when he's vulnerable and attack. Etc.

Luthor should be in every movie(or almost every), but if they ever end the franchise, Luthor should be the last one that Superman faces.

 

[charl_huntress]

What about Supes flying off at the end, Lois and Supes knowing they sired a child...and Lois still not knowing he's Clark?

That's some craziness, though I still trust Singer and think this movie will be great

 

[Lightning54SC]

Does Kal-El even know how to do that? I don't like eliminating Luthor permanently for the fact that it removes him from so many plot elements related to him. He's very useful as a villian, after all.

i never said he wouldnt come back or get out , maybe Kal Penn or Kitty would rescue him

 

[bsquad]

What about Supes flying off at the end, Lois and Supes knowing they sired a child...and Lois still not knowing he's Clark?

That's some craziness, though I still trust Singer and think this movie will be great

not to mention

Spoiler

Lex knowing the truth about the kid. Can we say payback

 

[charl_huntress]

not to mention

Spoiler

Lex knowing the truth about the kid. Can we say payback

The ending...if all the spoilers are to believed is a bit mystifying in this area. I'm a little confused to say the least. I hope acutally seeing the moving helps my confusion instead of adding to it

On a side note, I like the fact that Lex is stuck on an island. Guaranteed he'll get off, and he'll be even more pissed at the MOS. LOL...what if he sires a child on the island with Kitty. I mean, it's not like they don't have a lot of time on their hands

 

[Zilleraut #66]

Send him off into the vastness of space inside a livable space station. Lex being Lex, he turns matters into his favor and while in space meets Brainiac.

 

[Mr. Credible]

I disagree,

Luthor is a staple character of the Superman universe. Even if Luthor is not the main villain, he is always plotting in the background somewhere. Luthor was not the main villain in SII, yet he was there, causing trouble as usual.

Luthor is part of every superman cast. You've always got Lois, Clark, Jimmy, Perry, Ma, Pa (debatable), Lana, Clark, Superman and Lex. They are the main character of any superman story.

Examples:

SII, Lex is not the main villain, yet he tries to take advantage of the situation in order to rule Australia. He sells out Lois, and nearly the entire planet, except for Supes' brilliant endgame. Luthor here is taking advantage of the situation.

S:TAS When Darksied brainwashed Superman into a villain, Luthor used the opportunity to try and excecute Superman, when he was subdued by a kryptonite missile. In this case, Luthor is using the attack of a villain, to take advantage of supes

S:TAS When Brainiac arrives, Luthor is constantly dealing with the evil computer, trying to gain power, and always selling out the boy in blue. In this case, Luthor is being evil and naive at the same time, and is the catalyst for interaction with another main villain.

Even Kingdom Come had Luthor plotting in the background, corrupting Captain Marvel in order to bring about the apocoliptic battle.



there are so many examples, but I think my point is that Luthor is as vital to a superman cast as Lois or Clark is. He may not be the primary villain, but he is always there, somewhere, waiting for his opportunity to kill superman.

Lets say Superman returns has a sequel. And Mongul is main villain who attacks earth. Luthor will be there, waiting for Superman to expose himself when he's vulnerable and attack. Etc.

Luthor should be in every movie(or almost every), but if they ever end the franchise, Luthor should be the last one that Superman faces.

that's why lex is the ultimate villain. he can always be, if nothing else, behind the scenes, and he's cool with that. he's not the joker, or the green goblin, he doesn't have to be all up in superman's face, he can just hang back, and manipulate whatever's going on with whatever other villain.

 

[explode7]

So that means we're gonna get the same villain in every movie then. That sucks

 

[Matt]

that's why lex is the ultimate villain. he can always be, if nothing else, behind the scenes, and he's cool with that. he's not the joker, or the green goblin, he doesn't have to be all up in superman's face, he can just hang back, and manipulate whatever's going on with whatever other villain.

Which is the essential problem with this Luthor. All the Luthor's cited were post-crisis Luthor. He is able to act as he does because of his position. Superman may be the superhuman, but Luthor is the most powerful person on earth.

This Luthor is nothing but a two bit conman. Is the end of every sequel going to involve Luthor being left on a desert island or dropped into prison by Superman, only to hatch some hairballed scheme to escape in the next movie and play second fiddle/comedic relief to a better villian (ala Superman II)?

Post-crisis Lex has something this Luthor doesn't...real power. And that is why he is such a formidable opponent to Superman.

 

[charl_huntress]

Which is the essential problem with this Luthor. All the Luthor's cited were post-crisis Luthor. He is able to act as he does because of his position. Superman may be the superhuman, but Luthor is the most powerful person on earth.

This Luthor is nothing but a two bit conman. Is the end of every sequel going to involve Luthor being left on a desert island or dropped into prison by Superman, only to hatch some hairballed scheme to escape in the next movie and play second fiddle/comedic relief to a better villian (ala Superman II)?

Post-crisis Lex has something this Luthor doesn't...real power. And that is why he is such a formidable opponent to Superman.

Okay...wait a minute, Matt. You just mentioned the reason Luthor WON'T be the villian in the rest of the sequels. As you said, he's a two-bit con man which excludes him from being the most powerful human on earth.
However, my problem with your statement is something else entirely and I'll say to you what I said on another board. It doesn't apply to SR, but you'll get the drift.

I'm not really sure how I feel about it to be honest. Stylish, Batman-esque Superman villians that aren't really powerful don't work well in the Superman universe, IMO.

Well...I take that back. A stylish villian who isn't Luthor doesn't work well in the Superman universe. And this is what I think the main problem is with some writers. Why does every good diabolical plan have to come from Luthor? You mentioned "Ending Battle" and you know...I forgot Puzzler was in that too....this villian just keeps skipping by me, though I do know who they are...lol...force of habit I guess

Anyway, Black totally mind f-ed Superman. He was a good villian because he brought the battle down to his level. Heck! He was smart enough NOT to fight Supes outright. He sent others to do the job. Some writers think it's their mission in life to de-power Supes so he looks like a damn chump so they can have some idiot villian...but an idiot villian with style....beat up on the MOS. It's asinine, really! Why not just give him/her a good plan? It's shouldn't be unheard of for someone aside from Lex Luthor to think up a good plan?

Again, Matt...I know you don't think Luthor's plan was all that noteworthy, but it fit with his characterization from STM and SII, and it was a good plan in that it could have worked. It doesn't mean he's the only one who can come up with one. Also, judging from the piece of NK floating in space, I think there will definitely be a toe-to-toe battle with someone who is Suped up and ready to fight the MOS.

 

[Matt]

Okay...wait a minute, Matt. You just mentioned the reason Luthor WON'T be the villian in the rest of the sequels. As you said, he's a two-bit con man which excludes him from being the most powerful human on earth.
However, my problem with your statement is something else entirely and I'll say to you what I said on another board. It doesn't apply to SR, but you'll get the drift.

I'm not really sure how I feel about it to be honest. Stylish, Batman-esque Superman villians that aren't really powerful don't work well in the Superman universe, IMO.

Well...I take that back. A stylish villian who isn't Luthor doesn't work well in the Superman universe. And this is what I think the main problem is with some writers. Why does every good diabolical plan have to come from Luthor? You mentioned "Ending Battle" and you know...I forgot Puzzler was in that too....this villian just keeps skipping by me, though I do know who they are...lol...force of habit I guess

Anyway, Black totally mind f-ed Superman. He was a good villian because he brought the battle down to his level. Heck! He was smart enough NOT to fight Supes outright. He sent others to do the job. Some writers think it's their mission in life to de-power Supes so he looks like a damn chump so they can have some idiot villian...but an idiot villian with style....beat up on the MOS. It's asinine, really! Why not just give him/her a good plan? It's shouldn't be unheard of for someone aside from Lex Luthor to think up a good plan?

Again, Matt...I know you don't think Luthor's plan was all that noteworthy, but it fit with his characterization from STM and SII, and it was a good plan in that it could have worked. It doesn't mean he's the only one who can come up with one. Also, judging from the piece of NK floating in space, I think there will definitely be a toe-to-toe battle with someone who is Suped up and ready to fight the MOS.

You're misinterprating me. My problem isn't with Luthor's plan (well, it being a modified rehash of DOnner's Luthor's plan is a problem, but that's neither here nor there). My problem is with the threat Luthor presents to Superman. About Superman's motivation. What is to keep Supes from just taking Luthor and flying him into a prison? What is to keep Superman from Just punching his brain in? What is to really keep Superman from just using his super speed to break his neck in a split second?

This Luthor doesn't have any power over Superman as Post-Crisis Luthor does. Superman knows that no matter what Luthor does, he can't do a thing about it, in Post Crisis. This Superman however, with this Luthor...can essentially do whatever he wants to him and no one will lift an eyebrow.

 

[The Caped Knight]

What about Supes flying off at the end, Lois and Supes knowing they sired a child...and Lois still not knowing he's Clark?

That's some craziness, though I still trust Singer and think this movie will be great

Who says she doesn't know . It's possible she remembers after seeing The Kryptonian crystal . But she doesn't confront him yet, theirfore setting up the sequel . for her to confront Clark.

 

[Superfreak]

You're misinterprating me. My problem isn't with Luthor's plan (well, it being a modified rehash of DOnner's Luthor's plan is a problem, but that's neither here nor there). My problem is with the threat Luthor presents to Superman. About Superman's motivation. What is to keep Supes from just taking Luthor and flying him into a prison? What is to keep Superman from Just punching his brain in? What is to really keep Superman from just using his super speed to break his neck in a split second?

This Luthor doesn't have any power over Superman as Post-Crisis Luthor does. Superman knows that no matter what Luthor does, he can't do a thing about it, in Post Crisis. This Superman however, with this Luthor...can essentially do whatever he wants to him and no one will lift an eyebrow.

post crisis, pre crisis, it doesn't matter. Just as long as lex is always there, causeing trouble. He doesn't need power to cause trouble. Let's say, as in my previous example, that Mongul invades earth in SRII. Well luthor wouldn't be around to merely cause trouble, but try and take advantage of the situation to kill off supes Supes and Mongul duke it out to the bitter end, and Supes wins, just barely, but he's exhausted, and his solar battery is drained. Everything is happy, then Lex steps out of the shadows and tries to deliver a killing blow, after supes has saved the planet again.

Lex shouldn't be shoe horned in, nor should he be comic relief for a 'greater' villain. But rather, he should be the one human that hates superman more than any other being that Supes has ever faced. He should always be there. In the end, there can be only one.

 

[charl_huntress]

You're misinterprating me. My problem isn't with Luthor's plan (well, it being a modified rehash of DOnner's Luthor's plan is a problem, but that's neither here nor there). My problem is with the threat Luthor presents to Superman. About Superman's motivation. What is to keep Supes from just taking Luthor and flying him into a prison? What is to keep Superman from Just punching his brain in? What is to really keep Superman from just using his super speed to break his neck in a split second?

This Luthor doesn't have any power over Superman as Post-Crisis Luthor does. Superman knows that no matter what Luthor does, he can't do a thing about it, in Post Crisis. This Superman however, with this Luthor...can essentially do whatever he wants to him and no one will lift an eyebrow.

Okay...I do understand what you are saying now. However, I've always interpreted post-crisis Lex as a smooth villian. Superman could never really touch him because he was so smooth in covering his tracks that there was no LEGAL way to take him down, and Supes is all about law and order. So, on that point I sort of agree with what you are saying about the difference. However, why do you think they stuck Lex on an island in the middle of nowhere? He is removed as a threat for the time being, and that's the point. He's still a threat. Luthor is always a threat, but now he's stuck on an island, and he has to get off. That is what makes me think he won't be a villian in all the movies because as you mentioned earlier...He isn't all power. He now has to start from scratch.

Though I understand your concerns about businessman Lex (I just had to deal with that crap over in the cartoon forums), I still don't think this is going to diminish him to the point you keep harping on. He is a villian. He is a threat at any time because he is a villian!!! It doesn't matter if he is a ruthless and powerful businessman because he is STILL a villian.

 

[charl_huntress]

Who says she doesn't know . It's possible she remembers after seeing The Kryptonian crystal . But she doesn't confront him yet, theirfore setting up the sequel . for her to confront Clark.

That could be...I just don't like the fact that it's unknown at the end. At least she could have called him Clark or something...then things would be clear. However, it seems as though she screwed him and still can't see past the glasses.

I don't like that

 

[The Caped Knight]

That could be...I just don't like the fact that it's unknown at the end. At least she could have called him Clark or something...then things would be clear. However, it seems as though she screwed him and still can't see past the glasses.

I don't like that

Hey In Spider-man 1 MJ figured it out @ the end of the movie but didn't call Peter Parker / Spider-Man . But by Spidey 2 she knew .

So What's not to say Lois knows too. but doesn't say anything until the sequel .

 

[MKCTS]

by Spidey 2 she knew

That is because she saw him unmasked during the Final Battle. You can not get any more clearer then that

 

[charl_huntress]

Well...knowing you bumped uglies and sired a child can't make it more clear...at least for me. That's like worse than just seeing him unmasked. YOU know you saw him in full glory, but a pair friggin glasses is still fooling you.

Sorry...as a Lois Lane fan...I don't like that, and I hope Singer clears it up.

 

[The Caped Knight]

That is because she saw him unmasked during the Final Battle. You can not get any more clearer then that

She knew before that, remember she wanted him to kiss her in the cafe .

 

[Mr. Credible]

Which is the essential problem with this Luthor. All the Luthor's cited were post-crisis Luthor. He is able to act as he does because of his position. Superman may be the superhuman, but Luthor is the most powerful person on earth.

This Luthor is nothing but a two bit conman. Is the end of every sequel going to involve Luthor being left on a desert island or dropped into prison by Superman, only to hatch some hairballed scheme to escape in the next movie and play second fiddle/comedic relief to a better villian (ala Superman II)?

Post-crisis Lex has something this Luthor doesn't...real power. And that is why he is such a formidable opponent to Superman.

and how do you know he won't become more 'post-crisis' in the sequel? it maybe unlikely, sure, but who knows?

 

[Superfreak]

She knew before that, remember she wanted him to kiss her in the cafe .

this is so stupid, she knew at the very end of spiderman 1, now let it go, i have no idea what you are debating, but that's when she knew. She got concrete proof at the end of S2.

 

[Matt]

and how do you know he won't become more 'post-crisis' in the sequel? it maybe unlikely, sure, but who knows?

Because someone who nearly destroys the world twice and sells it out to aliens in exchange for Australia, usually doesn't become the head of a Fortune 500 company.

 

[Steelsheen]

Because someone who nearly destroys the world twice and sells it out to aliens in exchange for Australia, usually doesn't become the head of a Fortune 500 company.

he could hire someone as a "dummy" and run things from behind the scenes, like what was done with Mercy.