The Faults of Spider-Verse

[Will Nolte]

This is getting discussed in the Spider-Man section, but I thought it should be posted here so the chance of Dan Slott seeing this is increased.

There are a number of glaring flaws in Spider-Verse currently. Some may be just something not revealed yet, others just make no sense at all and they must have been forgotten.
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The complaint right now is this unstated prophecy and the Scion. It seems tacked on since the Inheritors had a chance to get him when they were in his universe and didn't. No mention was made of him until they decided to go to the "safe zone" and get him.

Speaking of the "Safe Zone" what a let down that was.

Now onto the missing Spiders.
MC2's Kaine and Darkdevil - Did you forget that the imperfect clone and the son of Ben Reilly existed, Dan?

Ultimate universe Peter Parker - It has been revealed that he never died, yet the only Spiders taken from that universe are Miles and Jessica. It has already been established that the Inheritors have a way to detect the Spiders of each world who do not have SpOck's cloaking device. This creates a major plot hole as Peter is currently running around over in Ultimate Spider-Man.

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Just pointing these out so you can still get them fixed before the story is over, Dan.

 

[Namor ll]

Good points.

My issue is the amount of tie ins. I find that every time a team goes out on a mission im like yesss this is gonna be cool. Then we get hit with the "to see this adventure, go spend more money on this to get the story". And i find that the bits of action we get in the main book are minimal. Its annoying as hell to me.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I just found it to be boring. As soon as it's over, I'm jumping right back in to ASM b/c the book was really interesting.

 

[Will Nolte]

Yeah it kind of irks me that such a big deal was made that Peter had to "rebuild his life" after Superior, and now that is all getting ignored because just like in real life everything gets put on pause.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yeah it kind of irks me that such a big deal was made that Peter had to "rebuild his life" after Superior, and now that is all getting ignored because just like in real life everything gets put on pause.

Well, that does tend to happen when one goes on adventures outside of space and time.....

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I don't think Will meant "pause" literally. He's talking about the flow of continuity of the book.

 

[Will Nolte]

Thanks Colossal Spoons, that was what I meant. Sorry I didn't make it any clearer.

I have another missing Spider to add to this list, and I even missed this one myself. Thank you to the Comicstorian YouTube channel for bringing this to my attention: MC2 Jessica Drew/Spiderwoman had a son who became the MC2 Spider-Man.

For any of you who haven't checked out the Comicstorian YouTube channel, you should. They have multiple videos talking about all of the different Spiders in Spider-Verse and beyond. Honestly though, they put in a TON more research than Slott ever did for this event. Shame on you Dan Slott, shame on you.

 

[Broseph44]

This thread basically Will you're all butt hurt and you wanna be all "shame on you Slott". As if your thread and comments will be seen by him and everything will be fixed to your liking. Hysterical hahaha

 

[Will Nolte]

This thread basically Will you're all butt hurt and you wanna be all "shame on you Slott". As if your thread and comments will be seen by him and everything will be fixed to your liking. Hysterical hahaha

Acutally I am just having fun with it to see if I can get a rise out of Slott like he used to do with Stillanerd all the time.

 

[Shockdingo]

Where is Stillanerd anyways?

On topic: I just honestly haven't been keeping up with this these days. I was for a while, and just wasn't really liking this event so I felt less and less eager to pick it up till I dropped it, not out of protest, but out of meh feelings. Honestly, I would have preferred a cosmic hiccup that had Spidey and some allies going through the various worlds and an overall story that wasn't so grim. I liked the issue where Miles and Pete met 60's Spider-man, that was some goofy fun that I enjoyed.

 

[Will Nolte]

I've been seeing him posting blogs for a Spidey fan site someplace. Crawlspace, I think...

You are right about it being too grim. I do enjoy the lighthearted stories more. I loved the new annual that came out recently because it was full of stories that originally brought me into comics and Spidey when I was younger. One off, little fun stories.

 

[CTFFFan]

Loved the book when Peter returned but not liking this Spiderverse storyline. Reading it but will be glad when it ends.

 

[stillanerd]

Where is Stillanerd anyways?

On topic: I just honestly haven't been keeping up with this these days. I was for a while, and just wasn't really liking this event so I felt less and less eager to pick it up till I dropped it, not out of protest, but out of meh feelings. Honestly, I would have preferred a cosmic hiccup that had Spidey and some allies going through the various worlds and an overall story that wasn't so grim. I liked the issue where Miles and Pete met 60's Spider-man, that was some goofy fun that I enjoyed.

I've been seeing him posting blogs for a Spidey fan site someplace. Crawlspace, I think...

You are right about it being too grim. I do enjoy the lighthearted stories more. I loved the new annual that came out recently because it was full of stories that originally brought me into comics and Spidey when I was younger. One off, little fun stories.

Yep, I’m now one of the two regular reviewers for Amazing Spider-Man over at the Spider-Man Crawlspace, not to mention I've become a regular panelist on their podcast (though my vocal delivery, I admit, does need some work). Which, yes, does mean I’ve been somewhat lax in my message board posts as of late.

Anyways, with Spider-Verse half-way over, my pros and cons so far are as follows:

PROS
*I really like seeing all these various versions of Spider-Man (and Woman) interacting with each other, and to Dan Slott and the various folks at Marvel credit, they’ve managed to keep them distinctive enough, each with their own “voice.” By far, the best example of this happened between Miles Morales, Spidey from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, and the Spidey from the 1960s cartoon in Spider-Verse Team-Up #2. That story was a hoot, especially if you watched both of those cartoons. Same goes with Slott’s Newspaper Strip Spidey story in Spider-Verse #1, relying on the strips tendency to repeat events of the previous strip as a crucial part of the plot.
*Olivier Copiel art has been outstanding! Just been hitting it out of the park with each issue.
*The long-awaited rematch between Amazing Spider-Man and Superior Spider-Man. Yes, the build-up to the actual fight didn’t really work, IMO, what with Peter coming across as a bystander in his own book prior to his declaring that’s he’s now in charge, and that, logically, neither one of them could seriously injure the other, but even so, it was great to see Peter give Otto a good ol helping of humble pie and ass-whooping.
*Doc SpOck in general has been very well depicted, although, considering how the other characters have been portrayed--including Peter Parker himself--he simply wound up being the best-written, most consistent character by default.

CONS
*Because there are so many versions of Spider-Man (and Woman) in this story, they’ve thus been reduced to one-note caricatures and potential cannon-fodder. Which means you have little to no investment in them. Which then leads to one death after another that, at this point, has lost any and all weight they otherwise would have had had there actually been fewer characters. And speaking of deaths…
*Even though Mayday/Spider-Girl is getting a greater spotlight, killing off her parents and thus giving her “revenge” as a motive was the most obvious direction to take her during “Spider-Verse,” and I would be very shocked if, towards the climax of “Spider-Verse” she winds up staying her hand at killing an Inheritor when she has the chance, and declares herself that “she is her father’s daughter” and thus “will not betray what he stood for” after all.
*As for the Steampunk Vampire Clones, I.e. The Inheritors themselves, what a bunch of bores. Remember when Morlun, even though he was Dracula by any other name, used to be this frightening badass? Well, because we now have derivatives of him via his siblings, he’s been reduced to being one of many spoiled, silver-spoon brats playing lacky to his big bad dad.
*The tie-ins. Yes, I know every major event-driven crossover has them, but, just what happened with “Spider-Island,” we have major plot developments occurring in these tie-ins instead of Amazing Spider-Man, and what’s more, the reading order is out-of-sequence. For example, even though Spider-Man 2099 #6, Spider-Woman #1, and Scarlet Spider #1 came out before Amazing Spider-Man #11, they chronological take place after that issue.
*Silk. Prior to ASM #4, I was initially intrigued by this character. After ASM #4, I though she came across as a “Mary Sue” at best, and a plot-device for Spider-Verse at worst. And with subsequent issues, she’s become more and more annoying. Which is not a good sign considering how much of Spider-Verse apparently revolves around her, what with her being one of three different “chosen ones” that are “destined to destroy the Inhertiors” somehow.
*Finally, there’s some very huge and very noticeable plot holes. For example, Old Man Spider just before getting killed by Daemos declares that he knows what’s really going on, and that the other Spiders need to listen to him. Which then raises the question as to why he never said anything before. Especially since he plenty of time to explain what was going in the supposed “safe zone,” where they had The Other (Kaine), The Bride (Silk) and The Scion (Benjy) all in the same place at the very beginning of Spider-Verse. Also, what a lucky break Spidey had by sending Jessica Drew off on her covert mission to the Inheritors homeworld to spy on them, where it turns out not only does she have an evil counterpart who is working with the Inheritors but also sleeping with Morlun, thereby allowing Jessica to impersonate her and gain even greater access and intelligence than she otherwise would have.

 

[Shockdingo]

Will: Thanks man, also yeah I agree with you, Spidey needs some levity again. Serious stories are great, but this is just too grim and not enough payoff. Thing is, in the right time and place grim and dark can work, but too much of it can sour execution.

stillanerd: Hey dude, congrats on the Crawlspace gig and nice to read your thoughts on the event!

 

[stillanerd]

stillanerd: Hey dude, congrats on the Crawlspace gig and nice to read your thoughts on the event!

Thank you, good sir.

 

[Will Nolte]

Glad to have you back Stillanerd.

I agree about Silk. Really all she is, is the newest Alpha who was the newest Carlie Cooper. I'm tired of them pushing these new characters with flat personalities as if they are the next big thing when there a ton of great characters that get ignored all the time.

Shockdingo, I agree that grim and dark can work. I still love Child Within and Kraven's Last Hunt. I think Marvel's problem is they always try too hard to make the next Kraven's Last Hunt instead of trying to go to an original route. Before anyone says it: Spider-Verse is NOT an original idea. It has been done fifty thousand other ways.

 

[stillanerd]

Thanks, Will Nolte.

And speaking of my Crawlspace review, I've just done one for the most recent issue.

Short version: Not only was that last page anything but "breaking the internet in half" like that Bleeding Cool article made such a bid deal out of, the comic itself was the definition of missed opportunities and disappointment. Weakest part of "Spider-Verse" by far. And don't even getting me started [BLACKOUT]on the complete jobbing of the Japanese Spider-Man by Morlun's big bad Santa Claus dad, or the Deus Ex Machina known as the Master Weaver. The single scene with Miles Morales' Spider-Men recruits was an absolute blast, though, and made me think "Why aren't we reading more about this?"[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Will Nolte]

I loved the line where Ultimate cartoon Spidey tied to call his group the "Web Warriors" and (I believe it was) Miles saying "Hey I never agreed to be called that."

 

[Shockdingo]

Will: bingo, trying to constantly top a classic work is tough enough, but if it's just trying to top the tone ("dark story? Make the follow up daaaaarker!" "Depressing? I want people crying their eyelashes off at the follow up!") Is going to crash eventually.

I've been hearing about this week's jobbing and am rather glad I've been staying away. Sheeesh, I get that in an event the heroes need to struggle as rules of the plot and all, but for you guys who've been reading all this, have the good guys had an ounce of success? Has anyone actually done some damage to Morlun and co yet? Or is it just a hopeless slaughterhouse?

 

[stillanerd]

Okay, two theories about were I could see the last two issues of "Spider-Verse" going:

First is what could be in those scrolls the Master Weaver gave Jessica Drew. if I were to guess (and remember, my guesses tend to be wrong) I imagine the scrolls confirm that the Master Weaver was the behind Spider-Man’s origin by weaving into the Web of Life and Destiny that a spider would bestow their powers into alternate versions of himself (that’s right, I think the Master Weaver is yet another version of Peter Parker). The multiverse being what it is, sometimes a Peter would be bitten, other times not, and other times someone else would be. But there were three people who were specifically chosen to be given the power to destroy the Inheritors–The Bride, who, of course, we know as Cindy Moon/Silk, The Other, who was supposed to be Peter Parker himself, and the Scion, who was supposed to be Peter and Cindy’s son. (This explains why any time Peter and Cindy are around each other, they’re compelled to have sex). However, because Peter rejected the Other (as we saw in The Other: Evolve or Die), it meant that he, like the Master Weaver, is the “center of the web” and thus capable of “weaving” his own destiny. Which meant, the Master Weaver had to compromise. Thus, the Other fell to Peter’s clone, Kaine. And since Kaine is just a clone of Peter instead of Peter himself, the Scion could no longer be Peter and Cindy’s son; therefore, the Scion became the MC2 Peter and Mary Jane‘s son, Benjy.

And I’m also guessing that the way to stop the Inheritors once and for all is for the Other, the Bride, and Scion to use their spider-senses together to link with the Master Weaver and re-write the Web of Life and Destiny. However, if the Master Weaver should die, there’s another who can take his place…Karn, who will be revealed to have been another version of Peter Parker all along.

The second theory is how Peter and Otto could come into conflict again over how to stop the Inheritors. Peter wants to rely on whatever is contained in the scrolls, but Otto thinks it's a load of bullcrap, and claims to have a surefire way to kill the Inheritors once and for all. This, of course, appeals to Mayday because she wants revenge. However, when the spiders at last invade the Loomworld to go up against the Inheritors, this is when Otto reveals what his plan actually is, much to Mayday's horror. For those who read Superior Spider-Man #33, SpOck remember how SpOckl told the Ashley Barton/Spider-Woman (from Old Man Logan) and the Assassin Spider-Man (from What If? Spider-Man vs. Wolverine) that they may have to commit genocide in order to stop the Inheritors? Well as we know, this issue reminds us that the Inheritors’ “Kyrptonite,” so to speak, is radiation. And Doc Ock is obsessed when it comes to radiation, given that prior to becoming Doctor Octopus, he was a nuclear scientist at an atomic research center. Therefore, my guess is that, learning the reason the Inheritors can’t come to the post-apocalyptic Earth because of their weakness to radiation, SpOck will secretly build a make-shift nuclear bomb to blow up the Loomworld, even though it would also mean killing all the innocent people along with them. Meaning some of the Spiders who support Peter’s “No One Dies” mantra will have to stop him. Of course, my predictions usually turn out wrong, so…

 

[stillanerd]

Will: bingo, trying to constantly top a classic work is tough enough, but if it's just trying to top the tone ("dark story? Make the follow up daaaaarker!" "Depressing? I want people crying their eyelashes off at the follow up!") Is going to crash eventually.

I've been hearing about this week's jobbing and am rather glad I've been staying away. Sheeesh, I get that in an event the heroes need to struggle as rules of the plot and all, but for you guys who've been reading all this, have the good guys had an ounce of success? Has anyone actually done some damage to Morlun and co yet? Or is it just a hopeless slaughterhouse?

Well, I suppose you can count

Spoiler

Morlun's brother, Daemos, being killed in ASM #10, even though it also revealed he and the other Inheritors can infinitely respawn via cloning. Oh, and apparently Spider-Man 2099 and Lady Spider (a younger, steampunk version of Aunt May) was able to dissect a previous body of Daemos and figured out who the "parent DNA" is but were cut off by Morlun's other brother, Jennix.

Then there's Silk who literally stumbled onto the one Earth were the Inheritors cannot go because it's a world which went through a global thermal nuclear war, and for the Inheritors, radiation is their "Kryptonite."

And then there's the Master Weaver, the guy who the Inheritors are using to teleport to various worlds and the one who weaves "The Web of Life and Destiny." Remember how I mentioned how it way too convenient that Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew just so happened to have a counterpart of herself who was Morlun's handmaiden/concubine, thus allowing her greater ease to spy on the Inheritors for that covert mission Spidey sent her on? Turns out it was all the work of the Master Weaver making subtle alterations in the Web of Life and Destiny that the Inheritors wouldn't notice...all so he could give Jessica some scrolls which literally tell her everything they need to know about how to stop the Inheritors. That's right---they've literally been given the answers by a literal deus ex machina. As one person I've seen describe it, it's basically akin to this movie clip, only taken seriously:

[YT]watch?v=Lzeqbws7FiE[/YT]

 

[Broseph44]

Am I the only one enjoying this? Or is everyone grumpy and crying over it haha.

 

[Spider-Jay420]

I really like it. Love seeing all the Spider people. It's crazy fun. I mean sure it has its faults, but what arc or story or event of movie doesn't?

 

[Shockdingo]

stillanerd: wow...also props for posting Robin Hood Men in Tights, love that movie!

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm digging it...