The Graysons are NOT coming to CW!

What do you think of The Graysons?

  • Great Idea!

  • Terrible Idea!

  • I'll wait and see....


Results are only viewable after voting.
To be fair, there is a Green Arrow movie (Supermax) in development.

There was also a Superman movie being produced between 2004 and 2006, but that didn't stop Smallville.

I think that whole "They're making such and such film" is such a cop out some times. I mean, The Batman animated series was airing while Batman was on JLU. The Batman just ended, and they're already putting out another Batman cartoon. Meanwhile, they put out a Batman anime, whilst releasing a second Batman film in four years, which is the fourth Batman film in the past 12 years, featuring three different actors portraying the character.

But no. We don't want to confuse the general public with two Green Arrows. :up:
 
I wouldn't necessarily think a pre-Robin story was a bad thing if it was a mini-series with a fixed ending in mind. A story of how the Graysons ran afoul of Boss Zucco perhaps. With Dick maybe learning some lessons that will help him later from the likes of Boston Brand and Ralph Dibny.

The problem is in it being an open ended series which is bound to star someone who's already in his 20s. Adult Robin is an oxymoron.

If you told me the first season was about The Graysons and the intention was to jump ahead to post-Robin if it made it to season 2, I don't see any real problem with that. But that kind of planning doesn't seem evident from the CW or the Smallville team. I think that's what's most worrisome about the idea.
 
There was also a Superman movie being produced between 2004 and 2006, but that didn't stop Smallville.

The difference was the Superman movie was adult Superman in the suit while Smallville just had young Clark.

Having two adult Green Arrows in the suits (fully formed superheroes)probably won't happen. Knowing how the studio rolls, I can't see them being cool with that.

Even MM couldnt appear on SV during the period when JLM was in development last season.
 
I can understand CW wanting to cash on the Batman franchise with a new series, but either have as Dick as Robin in New York ( like in the 70's going to Hudson Univeristy or BTAS at Gotham University) or Dick as Nightwing in Bludhaven or New York. I know they are gonna get a twenty something person to play the young teen Grayson, but by the time the show is over with it would be pointless for Dick to be Robin. Bruce would have to be 40 to be a father figure to the young Grayson.
We know Nolan will not use Robin/ Dick Grayson. Nightwing will be used sometime for a Teen Titans that maybe out years now. Go with the older teen Robin or Nightwing approach CW and fans might give it a chance.
 
I'd like to see a Nightwing show or even a show of the Gotham City Police Department like a Law and Order type show. With those 2 things you can go have plenty of seasons worth of material, but what the heck are they gonna discuss or do about Richard Grayson before he did anything worth while. They were a traveling circus wish means we'll get a quick mention of a few DC cities then what..? Hey we got funded by Wayne Enterprises!! That right there is about all you can do. Maybe half of season 1 will be Richard cleaning up the poop from the elaphants before hes ready to do do anything high flying.
 
They've already altered the fundamental foundation of the character by having any part of him be a normal human guy, which is a fail in my book.

whats the "fundamental foundation of the character" though? As long as his end point is a vicious alien monster who's capable of killing Superman isnt that all that is important to the character? Especially considering that his origins have a vague explanation at best... Now I have no idea how Smallville is going to get to that end point,if he's simply germinating inside the paramedic as some kind of host or if it's some other way, I'm at least open to the possibility to see what it may bring. If its terrible I'll be the first to label it as such.

Saying "Doomsday" doesn't make a paramedic with a monster side Doomsday anymore than saying "Hulk" and giving me Batman makes Batman the Hulk. That's why a lot of people can't stand Smallville. They create new characters and slap old names on them.

outside of their poor take on Mxyzptlk, I dont recall them really fundamentally altering any of the other DCU characters? They've all been pretty faithful outside of minor personal peeves like making Cyborg older than he is in the comics, etc. One thing to consider, and its a point many seem to miss, is that the show has never held itself out there as being canon. It's just one interpretation/retelling out of countless hundreds over the years. It's really taken no more liberties than your average revamp or elseworlds comic. Sometimes those are brushed aside and forgotten, other times they get deeply integrated into the mythos. Remember the crap storm in 86 when Byrne's Man of Steel debuted? You'd have thought Byrne made Superman a french prostitue the way some people acted. A decade later it was considered a watershed moment in the character's history.

Comic fans wouldn't hate them as much and I doubt their ratings would suffer.

This comment is very telling. You seem to think that comic fans and people who enjoy Smallville for what it is are 2 mutually exclusive groups when thats very much not the case. I've been reading and collecting comics since the late 1970's and am a fan of the show and know many like me. We just take it for what it is, and dont live and die with it. I've also been around long enough to see Superman revamped, retconned, and retold more times than I care to remember. I just dont bother declaring "jihad" on the version I find personally lacking (I'm looking at YOU Superman Blue :D ). After all its simply just entertainment.
 
Last edited:
whats the "fundamental foundation of the character" though? As long as his end point is a vicious alien monster who's capable of killing Superman isnt that all that is important to the character? Especially considering that his origins have a vague explanation at best... Now I have no idea how Smallville is going to get to that end point,if he's simply germinating inside the paramedic as some kind of host or if it's some other way, I'm at least open to the possibility to see what it may bring. If its terrible I'll be the first to label it as such.



outside of their poor take on Mxyzptlk, I dont recall them really fundamentally altering any of the other DCU characters? They've all been pretty faithful outside of minor personal peeves like making Cyborg older than he is in the comics, etc. One thing to consider, and its a point many seem to miss, is that the show has never held itself out there as being canon. It's just one interpretation/retelling out of countless hundreds over the years. It's really taken no more liberties than your average revamp or elseworlds comic. Sometimes those are brushed aside and forgotten, other times they get deeply integrated into the mythos. Remember the crap storm in 86 when Byrne's Man of Steel debuted? You'd have thought Byrne made Superman a french prostitue the way some people acted.



This comment is very telling. You seem to think that comic fans and people who enjoy Smallville for what it is are 2 mutually exclusive groups when thats very much not the case. I've been reading and collecting comics since the late 1970's and am a fan of the show and know many like me. We just take it for what it is, and dont live and die with it. I've also been around long enough to see Superman revamped, retconned, and retold more times than I care to remember. I just dont bother declaring "jihad" on the version I find personally lacking (I'm looking at YOU Superman Blue :D ). After all its simply just entertainment.

I agree with everything you just said.
 
I'll reserve my judgment for when I hear more...So far I'm neutral, it actually doesn't sound that bad.
 
outside of their poor take on Mxyzptlk, I dont recall them really fundamentally altering any of the other DCU characters?

Well, off the top of my head, there's Plastique, who they turned from a genetically altered militant French Canadian terrorist into a whiny teenage mutant, The Flash, who went from one of several great characters to, well, an annoying teenage mutant (in a hoodie, no less), Brainiac, who went from a smarmy Coluian artificial intelligence who, somewhat contradictory in nature, is obsessed with computerized order to a Kryptonian and Zod's ***** (although, I will admit, the character's personality was pretty close, and the actor was great), and, while you'll probably argue against this, Jimmy Olsen, who they made the same age as Clark and Lois.

This comment is very telling. You seem to think that comic fans and people who enjoy Smallville for what it is are 2 mutually exclusive groups when thats very much not the case. I've been reading and collecting comics since the late 1970's and am a fan of the show and know many like me. We just take it for what it is, and dont live and die with it. I've also been around long enough to see Superman revamped, retconned, and retold more times than I care to remember. I just dont bother declaring "jihad" on the version I find personally lacking (I'm looking at YOU Superman Blue :D ). After all its simply just entertainment.

I guess where you and I differ is that I think "what it is" is completely wasted potential. The story of Clark kent growing up into Superman has the potential to be great. Smallville, on the other hand, is Dawson's Creek trying oh so desperately to be Buffy and failing miserably. That that just isn't Superman.
 
As much as I am a Batman fan, this one is probably gonna suck. What the hell is the show gonna be about a family of trapeze performers? The death of Robins family is important to the storyline, but the other stuff, not so much. Birds of Prey, now there was a good idea for a series.
 
Okay. I've reserved judgment for a couple of days to really think about this show. I think it's stupid. Surprising, I know. Making a serialized show about the character this early in his life is just setting it up for all sorts of failure. It's like crossing a minefield. Sure, where you get to may be nice, but you're much more likely to get blown to hell. My solution?

Make the show about life AFTER Robin. Imagine a show about RICHARD Grayson alone in a new city, shunned from Batman, and left to forge his own legacy. Imagine not having to make convoluted explanations for other characters from Batman lore show up, as they are already established. Imagine Dick teaming up with Barbara, Com. Gordon, Huntress, Robin, The Question, and maybe even Batman to take down criminals on a plausible basis. Imaging appearences from Blockbuster, Deadshot, Two-Face, The Riddler, Catwoman, and dear god, the Joker! Doesn't that sound 10X more awesome? The CW need to get their heads out of their asses with this teen melodrama crap.
 
And why can't Warner ever just get a straight up series about their DC characters, anyway? I'd actually love a tongue in cheek, yet kickass Powergirl show.

As is, I feel "DJ" will end up occassionally fighting crime, then meet Hugo Strange, who dies after two episodes:cwink: ETC. I mean, Wouldn't it be easier to make a series about Robin, and then play with his civilian life and add in there all the crazy teen love hijinx and made up characters you want?

Will I watch it? Yeah maybe. I watch Smallville, when I get tired of Flapjack reruns, or something.
 
Doomsday is not a bartender on the show. The Davis Bloom character who will slowly start to morph into Doomsday is a paramedic by trade. They've also got a great actor in Sam Witwer from Battlestar in the role.

He is not a great actor by any stretch of the imagination. No one on SMALLVILLE appears to be a great actor. Few of them can even be considered "good".

SMALLVILLE's Doomsday is a healer who will turn into a destroyer. Therein lies the drama. I'm guessing that's about all there will be to it, other than a "freak" angle.

whats the "fundamental foundation of the character" though? As long as his end point is a vicious alien monster who's capable of killing Superman isnt that all that is important to the character?

Not really. There are several vicious alien monsters who are capable of killing Superman. In 1993, that might be all Doomsday was. But he's become much more over the years.
 
Well, off the top of my head, there's Plastique, who they turned from a genetically altered militant French Canadian terrorist into a whiny teenage mutant, The Flash, who went from one of several great characters to, well, an annoying teenage mutant (in a hoodie, no less), Brainiac, who went from a smarmy Coluian artificial intelligence who, somewhat contradictory in nature, is obsessed with computerized order to a Kryptonian and Zod's ***** (although, I will admit, the character's personality was pretty close, and the actor was great), and, while you'll probably argue against this, Jimmy Olsen, who they made the same age as Clark and Lois.

The problem is being narrow-minded enough to forget these characters have changed also through out the years, starting with Superman:

Superman, given the serial nature of comic publishing and the length of the character's existence, has evolved as a character as his adventures have increased. The details of Superman's origin, relationships and abilities changed significantly during the course of the character's publication, from what is considered the Golden Age of comic books through the Modern Age. The powers and villains were developed through the 1940s, with Superman developing the ability to fly, and costumed villains introduced from 1941. The character was shown as learning of the existence of Krypton in 1949. The concept itself had originally been established to the reader in 1939, in the Superman comic strip.

The 1960s saw the introduction of a second Superman, Kal-L. DC had established a multiverse within the fictional universe its characters shared. This allowed characters published in the 1940s to exist alongside updated counterparts published in the 1960s. This was explained to the reader through the notion that the two groups of characters inhabited parallel Earths. The second Superman was introduced to explain to the reader Superman's membership of both the 1940s superhero team the Justice Society of America and the 1960s superhero team the Justice League of America.

Superman dies in Lois Lane's arms: Superman vol. 2, #75 (Jan. 1993). Art by Dan Jurgens& Brett Breeding.

The 1980s saw radical revisions of the character. DC Comics decided to remove the multiverse in a bid to simplify its comics line. This led to the rewriting of the back story of the characters DC published, Superman included. John Byrne rewrote Superman, removing many established conventions and characters from continuity, including Superboy and Supergirl. Byrne also re-established Superman's adoptive parents, The Kents, as characters. In the previous continuity the characters had been written as having died early in Superman's life (about the time of Clark Kent's graduation from high school).

The 1990s saw Superman killed by the villain Doomsday, although the character was soon resurrected. Superman also marries Lois Lane in 1996. His origin is again revisited in 2004. In 2006 Superman is stripped of his powers, although these are restored within a fictional year.

Personality

In the original Siegel and Shuster stories, Superman's personality is rough and aggressive. The character was seen stepping in to stop wife beaters, profiteers, a lynch mob and gangsters, with rather rough edges and a looser moral code than audiences may be used to today. Later writers have softened the character, and instilled a sense of idealism and moral code of conduct. Although not as cold-blooded as the early Batman, the Superman featured in the comics of the 1930s is unconcerned about the harm his strength may cause, tossing villainous characters in such a manner that fatalities would presumably occur, although these were seldom shown explicitly on the page. This came to an end late in 1940, when new editor Whitney Ellsworth instituted a code of conduct for his characters to follow, banning Superman from ever killing.

Today, Superman adheres to a strict moral code, often attributed to the Midwestern values with which he was raised. His commitment to operating within the law has been an example to many other heroes but has stirred resentment among others, who refer to him as the "big blue boy scout."


Powers

As originally conceived and presented in his early stories, Superman's powers were relatively limited, consisting of superhuman strength that allowed him to lift a car over his head, run at amazing speeds and leap one-eighth of a mile, as well as incredibly tough skin that could be pierced by nothing less than an exploding artillery shell. Siegel and Shuster compared his strength and leaping abilities to an ant and a grasshopper. When making the cartoons, the Fleischer Brothers found it difficult to keep animating him leaping and requested to DC to change his ability to flying. Writers gradually increased his powers to larger extents during the Silver Age, in which Superman could fly to other worlds and galaxies and even across universes with relative ease. He would often fly across the solar system to stop meteors from hitting the Earth, or sometimes just to clear his head. Writers found it increasingly difficult to write Superman stories in which the character was believably challenged, so DC Comics made a series of attempts to rein the character in. The most significant attempt, John Byrne's 1986 rewrite, established several hard limits on his abilities: He barely survives a nuclear blast, and his space flights are limited by how long he can hold his breath. Superman's power levels have again increased since then, with Superman currently possessing enough strength to hurl mountains, withstand nuclear blasts with ease, fly into the sun unharmed, and survive in the vacuum of outer space without oxygen.

The source of Superman's powers has changed subtly over the course of his history. It was originally stated that Superman's abilities derived from his Kryptonian heritage, which made him eons more evolved than humans. This was soon amended, with the source for the powers now based upon the establishment of Krypton's gravity as having been stronger than that of the Earth. This situation mirrors that of Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter. As Superman's powers increased, the implication that all Kryptonians had possessed the same abilities became problematic for writers, making it doubtful that a race of such beings could have been wiped out by something as trifling as an exploding planet. In part to counter this, the Superman writers established that Kryptonians, whose native star Rao had been red, only possessed superpowers under the light of a yellow sun. More recent stories have attempted to find a balance between the two explanations.

source: wiki

God forbids any more changes! :whatever:

:word:
 
He is not a great actor by any stretch of the imagination. No one on SMALLVILLE appears to be a great actor. Few of them can even be considered "good".

Yeah right, that's why a lot of people like his acting, Witwer is a good actor, no need to be ignorant just because you don't like the show, he beats Routh easily, he's more natural and credible in his roles.
 
Yeah right, that's why a lot of people like his acting, Witwer is a good actor, no need to be ignorant just because you don't like the show, he beats Routh easily, he's more natural and credible in his roles.

A lot of people liking his acting doesn't make his acting any more impressive. It's possible that a lot of people simply like him, period. He's a decent actor, in that he doesn't always sound like he's reading lines, but that's about where it ends. Beating Brandon Routh in the acting department...that isn't all that impressive. So far I've seen one level from him.
 
As it stands right now, I can't see this being a good idea. Dick was barely interesting after he became Robin. (I like him as Nightwing, but 3 other kids have worn the yellow cape. We haven't had 4 Batmen.) What possible stories can they give us that take place before his parents' deaths?
 
I'm sure they'll make stuff up like they did for Superman in Smallville. Maybe bats will become irradiated by meteors and their bites will conveniently give characters powers week after week for Dick--sorry, DJ--to fight while his friends happen to get knocked out at just the right moment, thus preserving his secret identity.
 
Yeah man, nobody hates change, just crappy change. And if this show is from the current creators on Smallville, you can expect some crappy change.
 
Last edited:
It's not from the creators, it's from the current showrunners. The taint of Smallville still clings to them like a needy 4-year-old, though.
 
Don't forget the crappy opinions and whining from narrow-minded fanboys and fangirls. ;)
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,266
Messages
22,075,140
Members
45,875
Latest member
kedenlewis
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"