The Guns thread

[Sawyer]

"Just because I punched my wife in the face for undercooking my frozen lasagna means I shouldn't have 15 guns?!?!"

 

[regwec]

The fact that this qualifies as a notably progressive measure is the most depressing thing.

 

[Handsome Rob]

CWP Holder Stops Shooter

http://wspa.com/2016/06/26/several-people-hurt-in-playoffz-nightclub-shooting/

1. Bad guy gets into an argument, gets mad, and starts firing into a crowd outside a nightclub, hitting three people.

2. Good guy with a concealed weapons permit, in the same crowd, draws his gun and returns fire, hitting bad guy in the leg.

3. Bad guy stops shooting.

That about sums it up.

 

[DeadPresident]

One incident = good data set?

 

[Handsome Rob]

One incident = good data set?

No. I posted a story in a guns thread about the good use of a gun.

It's no more a "good data set" than an article about an incident where guns are used to murder people is for arguing against gun ownership. You're just as quick to make the same statement when someone posts those articles, right?

 

[DeadPresident]

No. I posted a story in a guns thread about the good use of a gun.

It's no more a "good data set" than an article about an incident where guns are used to murder people is for arguing against gun ownership. You're just as quick to make the same statement when someone posts those articles, right?

That angle would have some merit if there weren't 10,000 articles (exaggeration I know, maybe, maybe not - I don't have the data ) about a gun being used to kill an innocent for every 1 article there is about a gun being used by a civilian to save a life.

Over the last twenty years we've established a fairly decent data set of guns being used to kill innocents, although I'd concede coverage of negative incidents is highlighted whereas coverage of incidents like the one you posted don't get the same focus, which may skew the perception - but I'd argue it would be a minor skewing.

 

[Handsome Rob]

That angle would have some merit if there weren't 10,000 articles (exaggeration I know, maybe, maybe not - I don't have the data ) about a gun being used to kill an innocent for every 1 article there is about a gun being used by a civilian to save a life.

Over the last twenty years we've established a fairly decent data set of guns being used to kill innocents, although I'd concede coverage of negative incidents is highlighted whereas coverage of incidents like the one you posted don't get the same focus, which may skew the perception - but I'd argue it would be a minor skewing.

Well, the number of published articles (if we're talking news media) is poor evidence, anyway. They aren't scientifically based and are subject to sensationalism (which, as you noted, lead to negative incidents being highlighted).

But, when you have people on the Hype (or on other sites) making statements about how concealed weapons permit holders would make situations like the one described in the article worse, I find it useful to post articles like the one I did.

I see no harm in doing so.

 

[DeadPresident]

Well, the number of published articles (if we're talking news media) is poor evidence, anyway. They aren't scientifically based and are subject to sensationalism (which, as you noted, lead to negative incidents being highlighted).

Fair point, I agree.

But, when you have people on the Hype (or on other sites) making statements about how concealed weapons permit holders would make situations like the one described in the article worse, I find it useful to post articles like the one I did.

I see no harm in doing so.

Also fair, there's no harm in doing so. I just think there are a few people out there that believe an armed bystander would consistently improve the situation, which I believe is false. I'd definitely say there are concealed carry civilians who are trained enough and have the presence of mind to be able to stop a situation like the one you posted from going south, but I believe they're likely to be in the minority.

 

[regwec]

CWP Holder Stops Shooter

http://wspa.com/2016/06/26/several-people-hurt-in-playoffz-nightclub-shooting/

1. Bad guy gets into an argument, gets mad, and starts firing into a crowd outside a nightclub, hitting three people.

2. Good guy with a concealed weapons permit, in the same crowd, draws his gun and returns fire, hitting bad guy in the leg.

3. Bad guy stops shooting.

That about sums it up.

I was late for work this morning and risked running through heavy traffic to cross the road outside my office.

It was fine.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Here's a website that tracks instances of defensive gun use:

http://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/

 

[DeadPresident]

Here's a website that tracks instances of defensive gun use:

http://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/

(Potential) Quality of their data aside, the headlines on that site read like satirical clickbait written by a teenager. As much merit as defensive gun use may possibly have in the context of increased public shootings, I have to ask myself what kind of country the USA has become when a site like that has headlines like "Baby Mama gets Shoved, but her Granny wasn't having it" in regard to defensive gun use. Fortunately the death toll in most of these incidents is relatively low considering firearms were involved, but it's still moderately disturbing.

At some stage we'll have to cut through the anti/pro-gun bull**** and someone's going to have to ask what the **** is wrong with the country instead of deflecting onto other issues.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah well, in addition to the amount of guns being an issue, our culture is also a large part of the problem.

Everyone thinks they're a cowboy, thinks they're John McClane, gunna save the day with the power of Snark and a Gun. Delusions of grandeur fill the heads of people who argue that a "good guy with a gun" could save scores of lives (and let's not get into how reductionist the idea of "good guys vs bad guys" is).

I think it would be smart for our pop culture to feature more of the drawbacks to 'gunplay', like the next time you see a shootout going down on screen, cut to the kid across the street who got hit by a stray bullet, his mother screaming over his limp body. That is a much more likely result of a shootout than "Headshot! Headshot! Headshot! Yeahh, I'm Awesome!!"

Also, when the hero gets shot, it shouldn't be "I'm tough, I'll walk it off" it should be "holy f***ing s***, this is the most painful thing I've ever experienced in my life!!"

stuff like that

I remember the first time I saw a video of someone getting shot IRL, and it was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen
large full-sized man, no getting up and walking it off, he just lay there screaming that he didn't want to die.... horrifying

 

[Webfoot Hero]

(Potential) Quality of their data aside, the headlines on that site read like satirical clickbait written by a teenager. As much merit as defensive gun use may possibly have in the context of increased public shootings, I have to ask myself what kind of country the USA has become when a site like that has headlines like "Baby Mama gets Shoved, but her Granny wasn't having it" in regard to defensive gun use. Fortunately the death toll in most of these incidents is relatively low considering firearms were involved, but it's still moderately disturbing.

At some stage we'll have to cut through the anti/pro-gun bull**** and someone's going to have to ask what the **** is wrong with the country instead of deflecting onto other issues.

If you get past the clickbait-ish headlines (the website is known to have a sense of humor/fun with their headlines,) the articles actually do link to reputable local news sources where the incidents took place. For example, that headline you highlighted went to this link (http://wjtv.com/2016/06/24/shooting-investigation-on-lewis-st-in-jackson/) and it comes from the local news station. It tells what happened rationally but without the other website's headline.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Man, I really hope Bangladesh passes some anti-gun legislation in the wake of the crisis there, as well as I hope that Turkey passes legislation on bombs. Oh, and the US needs to pass legislation concerning knives, a mother was stabbed today.

 

[SV Fan]

To me the idea a gun makes you safer is stupid. Most people are more likely to have an accidental shooting then get killed by somebody else who has a gun. Beyond that most people who use guns just want to steal stuff so if it comes to the point both sides do have guns chances are somebody will be shoot, so do you want to basically take a 50-50 chance you will be the winner in that battle(I value my life more then some physical piece of property).

 

[KevanG]

I'd like to see the stats between kids that accidentally get killed by kitchen knives in the home vs guns in the home. I wonder how big the difference would be.

 

[Matt Mortem]

My problem with the "good guy with a gun" bit is that owning a gun does not automatically make on the so called "good guy." Ownership does not make someone capable to handle an active shooter situation or a crisis situation.

 

[SV Fan]

My problem with the "good guy with a gun" bit is that owning a gun does not automatically make on the so called "good guy." Ownership does not make someone capable to handle an active shooter situation or a crisis situation.

yeah the whole good guy with a gun comment from Wayne Lapierre seems to pander to people who believe that Rambo was a documentary

 

[Matt Mortem]

Another shooter absolutely can stop a "bad guy," but no weekend warrior who bought a pistol at Bass Pro Shop is properly equipped or trained to actually handle an active shooter situation.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Another shooter absolutely can stop a "bad guy," but no weekend warrior who bought a pistol at Bass Pro Shop is properly equipped or trained to actually handle an active shooter situation.

That's not exactly true either since there are plenty of companies/ranges/gun shops that offer training in how to use guns in a defensive manner. I know a few people who became new gun owners or were long-time gun owners that went to them.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Man I wonder if Saudi Arabi is going to push a domestic political agenda after today

 

[Handsome Rob]

I was late for work this morning and risked running through heavy traffic to cross the road outside my office.

It was fine.

Awesome. I took my road bicycle out this weekend and did 40 miles of city streets and highways, sharing the road with cars, pick-up trucks, and even a concrete mixer truck, some of which were in 45-mph road sections. Little bit of risk there, too.

It, as well, was fine.

Isn't it great to not be legally confined to a risk-free life? How boring that would be . . .

 

[BoredGuy]

Well then how bout next weekend, try taking that bike out and riding around at the gun range, see if that goes as well

such a dumb, false-equivocating, unrelated-to-the-issue argument

 

[Handsome Rob]

Well then how bout next weekend, try taking that bike out and riding around at the gun range, see if that goes as well

such a dumb, false-equivocating, unrelated-to-the-issue argument

Blame regwec . . . he's the one that made the jump to talking about roads.

 

[regwec]

Regwec is the one who made an analogy that underlined the absurdity in taking needless risks, but nor did he expect it to be understood by all.