The Guns thread

[Motown Marvel]

My issue with the Gun control debate is this: what law could have been passed to stop an evil person from wanting to kill another? Does it matter if it's a Gun a knife a car or a rock.
A Gun by itself is a inanimate object until somebody uses it. It's the human heart that has to be addressed.

Show me how a 60 year old man can kill 50 people and injure 500 in 15 minutes with a knife of rock. I’ll wait.

 

[summerteeth]

Show me how a 60 year old man can kill 50 people and injure 500 in 15 minutes with a knife of rock. I’ll wait.

This is such a straw man, as if those are the only two other options. Explosives can kill 50 people and injure 500, he had material to make explosives in his car he just didn't use them.

 

[Powerman34]

There are laws against murder, but people still do it. Your argument is flawed.

You just made my point. There are laws against murder but people still kill other people. So how do you stop someone who wants to kill someone?

 

[SV Fan]

If Dems want real gun control they should take something out of the playbook of Ronald Reagan. Point out black people have guns and they will get white people wanting to outlaw guns within a few months, worked for reagan in the 60s

 

[terry78]

They tried that argument on another board, and the response that the black ones are all criminals so they shouldn't have guns anyway. It's shocking how many fanboy message forums have suddenly turned into this.

 

[summerteeth]

If Dems want real gun control they should take something out of the playbook of Ronald Reagan. Point out black people have guns and they will get white people wanting to outlaw guns withing a few months

The only time there is an outcry for gun control is when there is a mass shooting because (white) people get scared because that type of randomness can impact them. Typically if you are white and it is a gun death it is usually suicide.

That being said gun ownership among African Americans is quite low something like 19% think it might have ticked up since the Trump election but still very very low.

 

[Lighthouse]

You just made my point. There are laws against murder but people still kill other people. So how do you stop someone who wants to kill someone?

By your logic, that means we shouldn't bother outlawing murder.

 

[SV Fan]

That being said gun ownership among African Americans is quite low something like 19% think it might have ticked up since the Trump election but still very very low.

I guarantee you if you arm Black Lives Matter and have them talk about their 2nd amendment rights, people on the right will all of a sudden be pushing hard for gun control

 

[summerteeth]

I guarantee you if you arm Black Lives Matter and have them talk about their 2nd amendment rights, people on the right will all of a sudden be pushing hard for gun control

That's what happened with the Panthers which is what you are alluding to previously.

 

[SV Fan]

That's what happened with the Panthers which is what you are alluding to previously.

It's sort of funny and sad at the same time, ironically the NRA fully backed Reagan in the 60s passing these laws. I always notice you never hear Republicans claim they are just like Reagan when it comes to gun rights(abortion and immigration are 2 things they never compare themselves to Reagan) given how they like to claim they are the most Reaganesque person in the history of Ronald Reagan on most issues

 

[Donner]

You just made my point. There are laws against murder but people still kill other people. So how do you stop someone who wants to kill someone?

No, I proved that your argument was flawed. It sounds as though you're saying that there is no point in creating gun control laws because people will still kill other people with guns. If that's the case, why have any laws? They never stop 100% of crime, so what's the point?

The point is to try and for society to understand that this isn't acceptable and to make it harder for people to commit these types of acts.

 

[squeekness]

I don't know. Perhaps if we found a way to seriously promote the idea of all lives being meaningful and everyone being a valid person, whether with religion or without, the Killing won't stop. The Vegas shooter surely didn't regard any of his victims as valuable people, he thought of them as things, targets to aim for. Without regard and love for our fellow man, no matter the gender, color or creed, mass murder will continue no matter the weapon.

 

[SV Fan]

If people truly want to reduce gun deaths they need to get to the root causes of why people murder other people. In general I think the biggest factor for murder rate is poverty. Look at South America, tough gun laws but the worst murder rate in the world(save a few countries in Africa)

beyond that we have a high amount of suicide by gun.

So if America truly wanted to reduce gun deaths they would have to invest in health care and programs that uplift the poorer people in this country

Stuff that Democrats propose(while I am all for it) will only shave a tiny percentage of death by gun

 

[Donner]

I don't know. Perhaps if we found a way to seriously promote the idea of all lives being meaningful and everyone being a valid person, whether with religion or without, the Killing won't stop. The Vegas shooter surely didn't regard any of his victims as valuable people, he thought of them as things, targets to aim for. Without regard and love for our fellow man, no matter the gender, color or creed, mass murder will continue no matter the weapon.

Tell that to Australia. They seemed to have a pretty good response to their mass shootings and it worked.

No one is arguing that gun control laws will stop mass murders or mass shootings or murder in general, but that is absolutely no reason to not implement laws. Assault rifles and semiautomatics and the like serve zero purpose in society and there is no reason they should be sold to the public. It's just common sense. The lack of training and background checks, as well as allowing seriously mentally ill people and those on the no fly list to buy guns is seriously stupid and needs to change.

And I'm saying this as a Canadian because we're at risk when we visit the US. 4 Canadians just died because the laws allowed someone to stockpile semiautomatics and buy as much ammunition as he wanted. It's bull.

 

[squeekness]

Tell that to Australia. They seemed to have a pretty good response to their mass shootings and it worked.

No one is arguing that gun control laws will stop mass murders or mass shootings or murder in general, but that is absolutely no reason to not implement laws. Assault rifles and semiautomatics and the like serve zero purpose in society and there is no reason they should be sold to the public. It's just common sense. The lack of training and background checks, as well as allowing seriously mentally ill people and those on the no fly list to buy guns is seriously stupid and needs to change.

And I'm saying this as a Canadian because we're at risk when we visit the US. 4 Canadians just died because the laws allowed someone to stockpile semiautomatics and buy as much ammunition as he wanted. It's bulL.

When I said "no matter what the weapon", I had in mind cars or trucks. Let's face it, as far as Vegas goes, this was still a crime of rage or stupidity, or whatever. It was still a disregard for life no different than others who have mowed down crowds with their vehicles. The problem was still the same, they didn't regard their victims as worthy beings.

 

[Donner]

When I said "no matter what the weapon", I had in mind cars or trucks. Let's face it, as far as Vegas goes, this was still a crime of rage or stupidity, or whatever. It was still a disregard for life no different than others who have mowed down crowds with their vehicles. The problem was still the same, they didn't regard their victims as worthy beings.

Sure. But I do believe that good mental health programs are helpful at lowering the rates of these types of attacks. It looks like Paddock may have been an actual psychopath, in which case he couldn't be helped, but those types of people are rare.

And terrorist attacks are also a different beast. But it doesn't look like the US has a foreign terrorism problem.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sure. But I do believe that good mental health programs are helpful at lowering the rates of these types of attacks. It looks like Paddock may have been an actual psychopath, in which case he couldn't be helped, but those types of people are rare.

And terrorist attacks are also a different beast. But it doesn't look like the US has a foreign terrorism problem.

It's not just mental health, it's toxic masculinity. The percentage of women with mental illness is slightly higher than men, but how many mass shootings you've seen were done by a woman?

 

[Donner]

It's not just mental health, it's toxic masculinity. The percentage of women with mental illness is slightly higher than men, but how many mass shootings you've seen were done by a woman?

Good point.

Perhaps women take their issues out on themselves as opposed to outwards like men do. Probably something to do with the socialization of women in society. Keep your problems to yourself type of deal.

 

[squeekness]

Us gals tend to be less confrontational, lol. We're more likely to poison your ass.

 

[Motown Marvel]

This is such a straw man, as if those are the only two other options. Explosives can kill 50 people and injure 500, he had material to make explosives in his car he just didn't use them.

Except there is not an epidemic of murder, mass murder, and suicide via explosions because it is far less accessible and far more difficult than guns. Guns are accessible, and they are efficient. Not explosive devices, not cars, not pencils, not any other stupid random object that people ignorantly claim can bring mass harm to human lives with the same efficacy and efficiency of a gun.

 

[Lighthouse]

The argument wasn't a strawman either since he didn't change the argument Powerman was making.

 

[mclay18]

Jimmy Kimmel responds to street artist who called him a crybaby

Sabo is a wingnut street artist who regularly trashes Democrats and left-leaning Hollywood actors. And yet he doesn't make any art trashing GOP politicians.

 

[regwec]

My goodness, that makes him the polar opposite of more or less any other "artist" ever.

 

[Texas Zombie]

I do know that a number of active shooters have been put down by civilians with Concealed Carry in Texas.

 

[squeekness]

I do know that a number of active shooters have been put down by civilians with Concealed Carry in Texas.

Those stories haven't made the news here in Massachusetts.