Comics The history of Amazing Spider-Man controversy

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
One of the nice things about being an OLD guy(fan man) is that you can remember all of the great debates that have happened in the life of Spidey.
1-Ditko left and Romita Sr. took over-fans cried foul for almost two years about the changes. Romita Sr. was accused of turning Spidey into Millie the Model. Alan Moore told him that Spider-Man DIED with Amazing Spider-Man #39( See the latest Marvel Spotlight-Inside Brand New Day)
2-Death of Capt and then Gwen Stacy-some fans never came back after the death of Gwen.
3-Black Costume-some loved it, some HATED it.Lasted for several yers in the life of Spidey.
4-The Marriage of peter and MJ-what started out as a publicity stunt became status quo for Spidey both in comics and comic strip for many years.Some were against it from the start others loved the idea.
5-McFarlane era-some loved him, some HATED him. Lasted for several years in both Amazing and Adjectiveless.
6-Clone Saga-you fill in the blank
7-Death of Aunt May-some thought it was very well done. Romita Sr. reports that killing Aunt May was something that was proposed ever since his days and he fought it every time.
8-Death of Ben reily-Some still want him back in some form or another.
9-End of Volume one(Gathering of Five)-major change to Amazing that lead into
10-Byrne era-v.2-Some hated him
11-JMS-Some loved his first few isssues then love turned to hate
12-OMD-You fill in the blank

My point to this is that in the 46 years of Amazing Spider-Man there has NEVER been a major change to the character that did not produce a backlash among fans.Romita Sr talks about after 2 years on Amazing, there were still people asking him, "When is Ditko coming back?"
Amazing Spider-Man didn't die with #39 nor #545.
I've been around for all the great debates and good Lord willing, I'll be around for many more,WhY? because
SPIDEY RULES

 

[Miken Ayers]

Aloha,
One of the nice things about being an OLD guy(fan man) is that you can remember all of the great debates that have happened in the life of Spidey.
1-Ditko left and Romita Sr. took over-fans cried foul for almost two years about the changes. Romita Sr. was accused of turning Spidey into Millie the Model. Alan Moore told him that Spider-Man DIED with Amazing Spider-Man #39( See the latest Marvel Spotlight-Inside Brand New Day)
2-Death of Capt and then Gwen Stacy-some fans never came back after the death of Gwen.
3-Black Costume-some loved it, some HATED it.Lasted for several yers in the life of Spidey.
4-The Marriage of peter and MJ-what started out as a publicity stunt became status quo for Spidey both in comics and comic strip for many years.Some were against it from the start others loved the idea.
5-McFarlane era-some loved him, some HATED him. Lasted for several years in both Amazing and Adjectiveless.
6-Clone Saga-you fill in the blank
7-Death of Aunt May-some thought it was very well done. Romita Sr. reports that killing Aunt May was something that was proposed ever since his days and he fought it every time.
8-Death of Ben reily-Some still want him back in some form or another.
9-End of Volume one(Gathering of Five)-major change to Amazing that lead into
10-Byrne era-v.2-Some hated him
11-JMS-Some loved his first few isssues then love turned to hate
12-OMD-You fill in the blank

My point to this is that in the 46 years of Amazing Spider-Man there has NEVER been a major change to the character that did not produce a backlash among fans.Romita Sr talks about after 2 years on Amazing, there were still people asking him, "When is Ditko coming back?"
Amazing Spider-Man didn't die with #39 nor #545.
I've been around for all the great debates and good Lord willing, I'll be around for many more,WhY? because
SPIDEY RULES

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

Jeez, could you be more of a condescending ass? Donald is one of the nicest posters here. He makes a well thought-out and researched post and you insult him. Being anti-BND or pro-BND is fine, but here and in other threads you've shown a serious attitude problem.

For the record I agree with Donald. Spidey has gone through many changes where fans said "that's it! The Spidey I knew is gone and dead!"

I would also add the grim n' gritty parents-are-robots "I AM THE SPIDER!" era to the list above.

 

[farmernudie]

Nice informative post.

However, Clone Saga and OMD/BND are in a world of their own, literally, changing large chunks of reality and history as we knew it.

Comparing that to Todd McFarlane (an artist!!) and others...not apples to apples though. Heck, there are bad artists and big dips in numbers within OMD continuity based on artists and crteative teams which is a sub-catagory of the bigger picture of the overall reboot here.

 

[shinlyle]

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

Wow. Talk about an unwarranted attack on another poster. Seriosuly, what did DT do to you? Hell, I've never seen him be anything less tha cordial to ANYONE on these boards.


DT- Very nice points made. It's another thing to point out that the killing of Ben Reilly was used to return things to the status quo pre-Clone Saga...and the Clone Saga was a way to get back to a single Spider-Man...as was the Byrne era and the relaunch. Most of Marvels big Spidey events that people loathed originate from Marvel's attempts to get things back to the way they were 25 years ago. I wonder where we'd be if they hadn't wasted time trying to go back, and spent their time progressing the stories and characters forward?

I'm not saying have Peter Parker, the Amazing Grandpa, but just not having to de-age him every 5 years for the sake of imaginary younger readers.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Wow. Talk about an unwarranted attack on another poster. Seriosuly, what did DT do to you? Hell, I've never seen him be anything less tha cordial to ANYONE on these boards.

From the visceral way Miken responded, you'd think Donald was discussing politics or religion. It's amazing. I'm sort of on the fence with the whole BND thing (think OMD was a horrid story, was initially anti-BND, but now they're explaining some stuff and the stories are getting good), but even if I disagree with someone, it never descends into personal attacks.

 

[November Rain]

meh, i can't read spiderman as a whole so i just pick and choose the eras i like, when another one comes back that takes my fancy, i'll start buying again.

no big deal. Just because i'm a spidey fan doesn't mean somone is forcing me to buy and read everything.

others should be the same

 

[Galactus]

If only the "controversial" stuff today was about a change in the creative team. The 60's sure was a simplier time. I wonder though if people back then would have been upset for Romita replacing Ditko if they have known that Spider-Man would still be around more than 40 years later, meaning that new artists and writers was something inevitable down the long, endless road.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

it's funny that the you fill in the blank that DT mentions are the big continuity altering events that try to make Peter single again... the two regression points...

 

[November Rain]

i actually thought the clone saga allowed for evolution and regression of keeping the best of the old while allowing pete to evolve into his other responsbilities as a father.

It wasn't even as if ben didn't have a love interest, he was with janine

 

[carnageehw]

I would argue that aside from the Marriage itself, nothing listed is as big as these new changes.

The clone saga would have counted (obviously) if they went didn't revert.

I'm also curious to the "Some hated him" comment of Bryne. I thought EVERYONE hated him.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I would argue that aside from the Marriage itself, nothing listed is as big as these new changes.

The clone saga would have counted (obviously) if they went didn't revert.

I'm also curious to the "Some hated him" comment of Bryne. I thought EVERYONE hated him.

Aloha,
I was trying not be dogmaticBut yea. MOST did hate him.Sales of Spider-Man was in the twenties to high twenties among the Diamond 100, for several years during that time.
Spidey rules

 

[roni14]

Thank you for this interesting, informative, and well written post. Now that you've made the point that everything will have it's fans and haters, I rethought OMD/ BND, and I think you're right? Thanks! This may produce good stories, and I look forward to seeing what the future may hold.

Corrected.
Thanks, Don! I never thought about this that way. Instead of being annoyed with the situation, I;ll let it take me where it wants to go.

 

[Venom 1988]

edit

 

[Themanofbat]

I would argue that aside from the Marriage itself, nothing listed is as big as these new changes.

I think Donald was trying to make comparisons to the "fan backlash"...

Obviously, a simple thing like the Ditko/Romia Sr. artist change is not a big deal to Spider-Man's history (only to the reader and not through Spidey's world), but what Donald has brought to our attention is that even after TWO YEARS of ASM #39, people were still wanting Steve Ditko back on the book; hence, the controversy.

 

[DRUMM3RBOY]

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

Well dang .....you need to calm it down just a little

 

[kguillou]

Originally Posted by Miken Ayers
Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

Jeez dude, it must be that time of the month huh?

Anyway, great post Donald Thomas, i think the bottom line is that changes will always enrage people no matter how good they may seem, you cant please everybody. When JMS made Peter a teacher, alot of people (including myself) thought it was a brilliant idea, but alot of people didnt like it either. This goes for every comic character, not just spidey: i'm sure people hated Jim Rhodes when he took over the ironman suit, but nowadays everybody loves Rhodey, people cried foul when Bucky came back, but no everybody loves the new Cap. No matter what change people will be pissed but if the change is good then in the long run people will praise it.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Well dang .....you need to calm it down just a little

I'm calm. I just thought people were used to my sense of humor by now.

 

[iloveclones]

Sometimes your laughter is hiding a frown........

 

[iloveclones]

Or, you're a *****ebag. Take your pick.

 

[carnageehw]

I think Donald was trying to make comparisons to the "fan backlash"...

I get it, I just think that some fan backlash is more accepatble, and shouldn't be brushed off as "there's always gonna be some haters".

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm calm. I just thought people were used to my sense of humor by now.

If that's your sense of humor you make Pauly Shore look like Lenny Bruce.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I get it, I just think that some fan backlash is more accepatble, and shouldn't be brushed off as "there's always gonna be some haters".

Aloha,
To be honest, I don't think you can be a true Spider-Man fan without having some sort of DEEP reaction to what happens to the character. Whether you like or dislike a certain change, in the long history of Amazing Spider-Man, we fans have always been some of the most vocal.I just wanted folks to appreciate the time honored historyof controversy with Spidey. And TMOB, it was not a simple thing when Romita Sr. replaced Ditko. There were MAJOR cries of FOUL.It wasn't just artistic change in the eyes of Ditko fans. To think that Alan Moore(Watchmen) actually told Romita Sr to his face that " Spider-Man DIED with issue #39( his first issue) is pretty strong words. The feeling was that Peter was supposed to be a nerd and plain, Romita made him Handsome and hip. Even Stan Lee wanted Romita Sr to make Peter less handsome, but he just couldn't draw him like that.Once sales picked up on Amazing under Romita Sr. Stan left him alone.But Romita Sr caught two years of HELL because of how he changed the very look and attitude of Peter Parker.
Spidey rules

 

[Themanofbat]

And TMOB, it was not a simple thing when Romita Sr. replaced Ditko. There were MAJOR cries of FOUL.It wasn't just artistic change in the eyes of Ditko fans. To think that Alan Moore(Watchmen) actually told Romita Sr to his face that " Spider-Man DIED with issue #39( his first issue) is pretty strong words. The feeling was that Peter was supposed to be a nerd and plain, Romita made him Handsome and hip. Even Stan Lee wanted Romita Sr to make Peter less handsome, but he just couldn't draw him like that.Once sales picked up on Amazing under Romita Sr. Stan left him alone.But Romita Sr caught two years of HELL because of how he changed the very look and attitude of Peter Parker.
Spidey rules

Aloha Donald,

When I said "Obviously, a simple thing like the Ditko/Romia Sr. artist change is not a big deal to Spider-Man's history", I meant to the character himself... the deaths of the Stacys is a big deal to Spider-Man (the character), but creative teams are not... just to the fans... like you said.

I think I confused myself...

 

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha Donald,

When I said "Obviously, a simple thing like the Ditko/Romia Sr. artist change is not a big deal to Spider-Man's history", I meant to the character himself... the deaths of the Stacys is a big deal to Spider-Man (the character), but creative teams are not... just to the fans... like you said.

I think I confused myself...

Aloha,
I do that from time to time myselft:
Spidey rules